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Bring in Frolov as a free agent

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02-15-2010, 06:06 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Kristian Huselius got $4.75MM per year. Michael Ryder got $4MM. Nik Antropov got $4MM and he has a history of injuries. Do I know Frolov will get that much, no. Is it a very safe estimate based on the comparables? Absolutely, and guess what? Every single one of my "speculations" can be turned back on you and proposed about Versteeg.

He's played on the 4th line for one game. Get over it. Versteeg's benching is the end of the world, but Frolov's is "no big deal?" Way to be objective.

My problem with Frolov is not that he's been benched, it's the fact that he's lazy, inconsistent, and his numbers have been declining for 3 seasons as the team around him got better.

You go ahead and keep that idea. It fits right in with the Rangers philosophy: Building a team by overpaying free agents. You're right though, dealing from a position of organizational strength to address a need is a terrible idea.

Agree to disagree.

Trx, are you reading this stuff before you hit submit reply? I don't think you are. You are the one that said the benching was what turned you off about Frolov, that he was Inconsistent and that he would be overpriced. Which one of these things ISNT Versteeg? If you recall, I said that all the benching and lazy talk was overblown, yet you insisted that was the major obstacle with Frolov. Now that a situation comes to light where JQ sat Versteeg because he's played like crap and not up to standard, you say I'm the one who brought up benching as a minus on a players value?

Frolov has scored 20 or more goals in every season but his rookie season (this one is up in the air) and has consistently been the Kings number one threat until the emergence of Kopitar this year. Frolov is a way more offensive minded player than Versteeg. I will say it again. This team does not need ore third liners. It needs a guy who can light the lamp. Frolov is going to be one of a few that can do just that.

Everything you are saying about Frolov, I can say about Versteeg. That's the point. You say that defense is our strong point? Oh yeah? WHO? No one in the A is ready to step in and fill Girardi's shoes. So you'd deal Girardi and perhaps a pick for Versteeg and plug Versteeg in on our second line and with this move, you think that Versteeg would help more than having Girardi AND Frolov?

When they talk about Depth with our defense, they mean IN THE SYSTEM. Not the current blue liners. Getting rid of Girardi would be a stupid idea, unless of course there was someone ready and available to eat up the minutes that he's getting and not look totally out of place.

As for the money issues....Well, I have already said I'd go up to around 4 for Frolov, so that's right in the budget I'd be willing to spend. You really don't think FRO is worth a million dollars MORE THAN Kotalik? REALLY???!?!?! I promise you that GM's around the league have a higher opinion of Fro then you do.

PS: Sophmore slumps? Frolov didn't have one.

Just a side note. I like Versteeg as a player. I just think it's the wrong place, wrong time for him on the Rangers. If we're going to go after someone from the Hawks(Obviously not one of their big guns, someone who is on the market), it should be Sharp or Big D. Anything else would be shuffling the deck.

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02-15-2010, 07:07 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by BlueShirts702 View Post
Trx, are you reading this stuff before you hit submit reply? I don't think you are. You are the one that said the benching was what turned you off about Frolov, that he was Inconsistent and that he would be overpriced. Which one of these things ISNT Versteeg? If you recall, I said that all the benching and lazy talk was overblown, yet you insisted that was the major obstacle with Frolov. Now that a situation comes to light where JQ sat Versteeg because he's played like crap and not up to standard, you say I'm the one who brought up benching as a minus on a players value?
Fair enough. I meant to say that my "main" problem with Frolov isn't the benching. I can't proof read my Blackberry sometimes. The benching was one of the things that turned me off about Frolov. A benching for lack of heart and compete level in a contract year is a red flag, but it's not my biggest concern. You insist that it's overblown, but I maintain that it's not. Frolov has been plagued by inconsistency his entire career, that's been the scouting report on him for years.

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Frolov has scored 20 or more goals in every season but his rookie season (this one is up in the air) and has consistently been the Kings number one threat until the emergence of Kopitar this year. Frolov is a way more offensive minded player than Versteeg. I will say it again. This team does not need ore third liners. It needs a guy who can light the lamp. Frolov is going to be one of a few that can do just that.
But again, you're basing Versteeg as a third liner on just this season. Was he a third liner last year when he put up 22 goals and 50+ points? He hasn't even played a full second season, and you're writing him off based on the worse of the two? It's just not reasonable.

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Everything you are saying about Frolov, I can say about Versteeg. That's the point. You say that defense is our strong point? Oh yeah? WHO? No one in the A is ready to step in and fill Girardi's shoes. So you'd deal Girardi and perhaps a pick for Versteeg and plug Versteeg in on our second line and with this move, you think that Versteeg would help more than having Girardi AND Frolov?
No, I didn't say that. I said it was a position of organizational strength. Meaning that it's easier to replace Girardi from within than it is to fill the void of secondary scoring.

I think having Versteeg at $3MM and Sanguinetti or Sauer at $700k is a better idea for a cap strapped team than Frolov at $4MM+ and Girardi at $2.5M or perhaps more. I'm not one of the folks who feels like we should be building a competitor next season.

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When they talk about Depth with our defense, they mean IN THE SYSTEM. Not the current blue liners. Getting rid of Girardi would be a stupid idea, unless of course there was someone ready and available to eat up the minutes that he's getting and not look totally out of place.
See above. I feel Girardi looks totally out of place with the minutes he's getting. He's being asked to play far above his talent level.

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As for the money issues....Well, I have already said I'd go up to around 4 for Frolov, so that's right in the budget I'd be willing to spend. You really don't think FRO is worth a million dollars MORE THAN Kotalik? REALLY???!?!?! I promise you that GM's around the league have a higher opinion of Fro then you do.
They might, but that doesn't mean I have to share that opinion of him. Kotalik isn't worth $3M per year, so saying Frolov is or isn't worth $1MM more in that context is irrelevant. The point is that UFA's are overpaid. I'm not willing to break open the bank for another reclamation project in hopes that he'll find consistency in his game on Broadway.

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PS: Sophmore slumps? Frolov didn't have one.
He was also asked to play a significantly greater role on that LA team than Versteeg has been doing this season. It's all relative. More often than not, a player struggles in his second season.

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Just a side note. I like Versteeg as a player. I just think it's the wrong place, wrong time for him on the Rangers. If we're going to go after someone from the Hawks(Obviously not one of their big guns, someone who is on the market), it should be Sharp or Big D. Anything else would be shuffling the deck.
If Frolov was in the same situation as Versteeg and was under a manageable contract for another couple seasons, I'd think differently about him. But given the fact that he's struggling in his contract year, I just can't feel comfortable with offering him a FA contract.

Buff is seriously overrated, and is way too pricey for what he brings to the table. $3MM for a guy who's never cracked 40 points? No thanks.

I doubt Sharp is going to be available. If he was, I'd take him over Versteeg as well.

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02-15-2010, 07:29 PM
  #128
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I'd take Versteeg over Frolov at this point in time. One player is 23, the other is 27. Frolov will command between $4.0 and $5.0 million on the UFA market this summer. Versteeg will be paid a little over $3.0 million for two more years after this season. The difference in points in negligable at this point in the season, with Vertseeg have 33pts in 58 games and Frolov having 37pts in 60 games (With both players having 13 goals). Not to mention Frolov is in a contract year and is not producing.

The Rangers have the least amount of depth in the system at the RW position as well (I'm going off TSN's player page that he plays RW). I believe he can also slide into the center position if need be as well.

The big question regarding Vertseeg right now is what would it take to acquire him?

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02-15-2010, 11:44 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
I'd take Versteeg over Frolov at this point in time. One player is 23, the other is 27. Frolov will command between $4.0 and $5.0 million on the UFA market this summer. Versteeg will be paid a little over $3.0 million for two more years after this season. The difference in points in negligable at this point in the season, with Vertseeg have 33pts in 58 games and Frolov having 37pts in 60 games (With both players having 13 goals). Not to mention Frolov is in a contract year and is not producing.

The Rangers have the least amount of depth in the system at the RW position as well (I'm going off TSN's player page that he plays RW). I believe he can also slide into the center position if need be as well.

The big question regarding Vertseeg right now is what would it take to acquire him?
Okay, fellas. Thanks for the spirited debate. Like I said, I'm not saying Frolov should be our number one option, but I think he should be on the radar.

I will keep a closer eye on Versteeg from here on out Trx. I admit I haven't seen as much of him as I have of Frolov.

Thanks for taking the time to explain your point of view. I appreciate the effort on your part.

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Old
02-16-2010, 06:12 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by BlueShirts702 View Post
Okay, fellas. Thanks for the spirited debate. Like I said, I'm not saying Frolov should be our number one option, but I think he should be on the radar.

I will keep a closer eye on Versteeg from here on out Trx. I admit I haven't seen as much of him as I have of Frolov.

Thanks for taking the time to explain your point of view. I appreciate the effort on your part.
Likewise.

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Old
02-16-2010, 06:56 PM
  #131
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It's just as much "for how much?" as it is "who?". There are some decent players that will be available but you have to give less than what you receive. Every move should be a net win or at least a push, that's how you build a championship quality squad. If you can get Versteeg for a reasonable give out, count me in. If you can sign Frolov for somewhat cheap, sign me up.

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Old
03-03-2010, 06:28 PM
  #132
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Hey Trx, have you seen the article about Frolov? It sheds some light on the whole "cancer" thing. Someone posted it the Trades/Rumors section. If you get a chance, give it a read.

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03-04-2010, 02:33 AM
  #133
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Here's a link to the thread I was talking about.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=745944

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