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Ray Shero today on 1250 ESPN radio @ 11:10am

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Old
02-16-2010, 12:18 AM
  #76
Kunitziwa
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I think eventually Letang and Gogo will make for a threatening PP point presence. Letang has the more powerful shot, but needs to work on his accuracy. He seems to have all the tools, but maybe he should be focusing on just getting the puck to net, not breaking other guys shin pads or the corner boards.

Even with Gogo's short PP QB success I don't see any changes being made until next year.

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02-16-2010, 01:33 AM
  #77
Malkin4Top6Wingerz
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
Also when talking about that stretch where Goligoski was forced to man Sarge's spot, one has to add some perspective. Including Goligoski playing a position he was accustomed to playing in the NHL, Letang was playing right point which he rarely played, Geno was out of the lineup, and Sid was said to be nursing an injury himself.
I already took that into account earlier, however I do recall Goligoski and Letang both playing on the strong side at points during that stretch when the other failed.

Still, losing Geno should not constitute that kind of drop when you still have Crosby on that powerplay. 7% on the powerplay is twice as bad as the worst PP in the league, to put that in perspective for you. Even before the lockout with the laughable team we had on paper they were among the best units with the man advantage in the league. List all of the potential reasons for why the PP failed under Goligoski, but remember that I am specifically responding to your comment that said he "proved" he was capable of running our powerplay. He has not. That's not to say he can't or won't, just that he hasn't yet. That's what I took issue with.

HSL, those numbers I cited are correct as another poster pointed out. They came from a recent Pens telecast on Versus or NBC, I can't recall which. Considering our PP has been fairly decent as of late I doubt those numbers have dropped. Either way, the Gogo / Letang pairing was clicking at slightly over 7% as mentioned before. It's not a huge sample size, but 16 games is enough to draw some general conclusions. Besides being gifted offensive d-men they haven't really shown to me that they can run a powerplay together effectively. I don't know about you, but I'm not sure if I want to hand over the keys to a Stanley Cup contender next year to a couple of kids that haven't earned it.

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02-16-2010, 08:19 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
I already took that into account earlier, however I do recall Goligoski and Letang both playing on the strong side at points during that stretch when the other failed.

Still, losing Geno should not constitute that kind of drop when you still have Crosby on that powerplay. 7% on the powerplay is twice as bad as the worst PP in the league, to put that in perspective for you. Even before the lockout with the laughable team we had on paper they were among the best units with the man advantage in the league. List all of the potential reasons for why the PP failed under Goligoski, but remember that I am specifically responding to your comment that said he "proved" he was capable of running our powerplay. He has not. That's not to say he can't or won't, just that he hasn't yet. That's what I took issue with.

HSL, those numbers I cited are correct as another poster pointed out. They came from a recent Pens telecast on Versus or NBC, I can't recall which. Considering our PP has been fairly decent as of late I doubt those numbers have dropped. Either way, the Gogo / Letang pairing was clicking at slightly over 7% as mentioned before. It's not a huge sample size, but 16 games is enough to draw some general conclusions. Besides being gifted offensive d-men they haven't really shown to me that they can run a powerplay together effectively. I don't know about you, but I'm not sure if I want to hand over the keys to a Stanley Cup contender next year to a couple of kids that haven't earned it.
It wasn't Goligoski as to why it was clicking at 7%. I keep saying this, you keep saying you got it, then you say that you don't want to let him run the powerplay. It wasn't him as to why the powerplay faultered. You also say that you took into account that Letang was playing left point, Geno was missing, and Sid was playing injured. You obviously didn't because you're still judging Goligoski's performance when he was playing in that lineup. Like I said before, when Goligoski took over for Sarge, he was looking incredible. 7 points in 11 games, and playing stellar defense. He was getting good, hard, low shots off from the point, and they were getting through a ton of traffic. When I said he "proved" he can handle it, I was just looking at how he handled the job. I don't need statistics to tell me how he did.

And losing Geno would constitute a drop. That puck goes through Geno and Sarge, with Geno taking a good majority of those shots. If Geno isn't there, teams can cheat over to Goligoski. The same way if there isn't a legitimate threat over on the left boards, teams can cheat over that way too, which they have been doing all year.

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Old
02-16-2010, 08:21 AM
  #79
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Agreed, sometimes it is tougher to not make change just for the sake of change. If it doesn't clearly improve the team, or it costs too much, then I'm fine with him not doing anything.

As everyone likes to point out, changing away from zone D, etc....are things that can improve the team without changing players.

Though, to be honest, it is just human nature to want new toys, so I hope something happens!
First of all .. why did they abandon the defense modality that worked in winning the Cup? Why have they continued to use this stupid, lazy, soft "system" for so many months?

Then .. why should we (the fans) expect them to now just dump the zone D and go back to the good, effective man-to-man?

They have been totally illogical and irrational with this. So why should we be hopeful that they will come to their senses and suddenly do the right thing now that the Playoffs are near?

I see stupidity and irrationality having won the day concerning this situation, and so right now I have no realistic hope that they will go back to doing what's right and what works.

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02-16-2010, 09:24 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
It wasn't Goligoski as to why it was clicking at 7%. I keep saying this, you keep saying you got it, then you say that you don't want to let him run the powerplay. It wasn't him as to why the powerplay faultered. You also say that you took into account that Letang was playing left point, Geno was missing, and Sid was playing injured. You obviously didn't because you're still judging Goligoski's performance when he was playing in that lineup. Like I said before, when Goligoski took over for Sarge, he was looking incredible. 7 points in 11 games, and playing stellar defense. He was getting good, hard, low shots off from the point, and they were getting through a ton of traffic. When I said he "proved" he can handle it, I was just looking at how he handled the job. I don't need statistics to tell me how he did.

And losing Geno would constitute a drop. That puck goes through Geno and Sarge, with Geno taking a good majority of those shots. If Geno isn't there, teams can cheat over to Goligoski. The same way if there isn't a legitimate threat over on the left boards, teams can cheat over that way too, which they have been doing all year.
You're missing the point completely. Goligoski's even strength play was great until he got injured. He even looked solid playing on the powerplay with Gonchar. But when Gonchar went down and Goligoski was called upon to run the powerplay it was terrible, so how can you say that he showed that he was ready to lead the powerplay when he didn't look very good on it and it struggled mightily?

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02-16-2010, 09:29 AM
  #81
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I just think the bulk of our PP right now is Malkin and Gonchar playing piddle paddle with each other and taking shots from 50' away while Crosby watches from the corner.

We have the personnel to put together a highly effective PP with Malkin, Crosby, Goligoski and Letang. Other teams are able to do so with less.

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Old
02-16-2010, 09:58 AM
  #82
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As much as we like to talk about who Shero needs to get rid of or acquire, there's 1 thing many people probably never thought about in these Olympics. Imagine how it would impact everything if any of our players (most notably Gonchar or Fleury or even Orpik) got seriously injured in these Olympics. Something tells me that Gogo wouldn' be going anywhere and maybe Shero's plan might just change a little come March 3rd.

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Old
02-16-2010, 10:03 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
You're missing the point completely. Goligoski's even strength play was great until he got injured. He even looked solid playing on the powerplay with Gonchar. But when Gonchar went down and Goligoski was called upon to run the powerplay it was terrible, so how can you say that he showed that he was ready to lead the powerplay when he didn't look very good on it and it struggled mightily?
It struggled mightily because one of the main pieces in Malkin, wasn't present. Goligoski did well, and had many of us who questioned him being a powerplay QB, not so much question if he could perform that duty any longer. There are numerous reasons why that powerplay in that 11 game stretch faltered. Goligoski wasn't one of them, IMO. The mistakes he did make would have been made by any guy who was running a powerplay for the first time, and the only way he is going to get better is if he runs that point.

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Old
02-16-2010, 10:12 AM
  #84
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I think there are less questions surrounding Goligoski as a PP quarterback than there are of him as a top-four defenseman, to be honest.

I think he'll be fine but his bread-and-butter is point production and causing trouble for defenders when joining the attack, not stable defensive play imo. He's a lot like John-Michael Liles, so I hope he doesn't follow a similar regression in his overall play. Matt Carle is another legit comparison, though he has upped his defensive game since arriving in Philly. And now with Pronger, he seems to have righted the ship completely.

In the end, I think Goligoski will be fine. But choosing the right partner for him could be key.

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Old
02-16-2010, 10:30 AM
  #85
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I think there are less questions surrounding Goligoski as a PP quarterback than there are of him as a top-four defenseman, to be honest.

I think he'll be fine but his bread-and-butter is point production and causing trouble for defenders when joining the attack, not stable defensive play imo. He's a lot like John-Michael Liles, so I hope he doesn't follow a similar regression in his overall play. Matt Carle is another legit comparison, though he has upped his defensive game since arriving in Philly. And now with Pronger, he seems to have righted the ship completely.

In the end, I think Goligoski will be fine. But choosing the right partner for him could be key.
I agree with this. It just has to do with what Goligoski we are getting. If we get the one we had in the beginning of the season, he's a top 4 defenseman, with real potential of being a top pairing guy (a la Rafalski). If plays like he has been since, he is probably a 4-6 guy, who is a powerplay specialist.

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Old
02-16-2010, 11:00 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
It struggled mightily because one of the main pieces in Malkin, wasn't present. Goligoski did well, and had many of us who questioned him being a powerplay QB, not so much question if he could perform that duty any longer. There are numerous reasons why that powerplay in that 11 game stretch faltered. Goligoski wasn't one of them, IMO. The mistakes he did make would have been made by any guy who was running a powerplay for the first time, and the only way he is going to get better is if he runs that point.
Results aside I don't know what you saw during that stretch that made you confident that Goligoski was ready to take over our powerplay. The breakout and zone entry was poor, I really wasn't happy with his overall decision making either. The powerplay wouldn't have been nearly that bad without Malkin if Gonchar was running it, imo.

I'm just advocating getting a guy in the offseason that can help on the powerplay some. Not a pure offensive defenseman or anything, just a guy that can log minutes and give the PP a shakeup, at least until Letang learns to hit the net. Like you said, we need more threats on the left side. A guy like Zidlicky, Aucoin, etc. would be perfect imo.

I have a lot more confidence in Goligoski on the powerplay than Letang, however. He's just a smarter player and his shot is that much better.

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02-16-2010, 12:23 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
Results aside I don't know what you saw during that stretch that made you confident that Goligoski was ready to take over our powerplay. The breakout and zone entry was poor, I really wasn't happy with his overall decision making either. The powerplay wouldn't have been nearly that bad without Malkin if Gonchar was running it, imo.

I'm just advocating getting a guy in the offseason that can help on the powerplay some. Not a pure offensive defenseman or anything, just a guy that can log minutes and give the PP a shakeup, at least until Letang learns to hit the net. Like you said, we need more threats on the left side. A guy like Zidlicky, Aucoin, etc. would be perfect imo.

I have a lot more confidence in Goligoski on the powerplay than Letang, however. He's just a smarter player and his shot is that much better.
But the problems you bring up, we have those exact same problems when Sarge is running it. Every time he tries to gain the offensive zone, it looks like a completely and utter cluster****.

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02-16-2010, 01:01 PM
  #88
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First of all .. why did they abandon the defense modality that worked in winning the Cup? Why have they continued to use this stupid, lazy, soft "system" for so many months?
Because playing tough, aggressive man-to-man defense for an 82-game regular season leaves the dmen too tired to excel in the playoffs. Especially with the short offseason. I expect the Pens to go back to what worked in the playoffs because the whole point of the strategy is to turn it on in the playoffs.

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Old
02-16-2010, 03:41 PM
  #89
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Because playing tough, aggressive man-to-man defense for an 82-game regular season leaves the dmen too tired to excel in the playoffs. Especially with the short offseason. I expect the Pens to go back to what worked in the playoffs because the whole point of the strategy is to turn it on in the playoffs.
I hope so! If they don't switch back, I'll be sad.

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Old
02-16-2010, 03:45 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
HSL, those numbers I cited are correct as another poster pointed out. They came from a recent Pens telecast on Versus or NBC, I can't recall which. Considering our PP has been fairly decent as of late I doubt those numbers have dropped. Either way, the Gogo / Letang pairing was clicking at slightly over 7% as mentioned before. It's not a huge sample size, but 16 games is enough to draw some general conclusions. Besides being gifted offensive d-men they haven't really shown to me that they can run a powerplay together effectively. I don't know about you, but I'm not sure if I want to hand over the keys to a Stanley Cup contender next year to a couple of kids that haven't earned it.
Ha, thanks man. I was just a little confused and typing quickly at work.

It's an interesting bit of stats work to think about. Again, though, I'm not sure which is more of a problem-- our personel or the way the PP is currently organized. It's so static and predictable that I feel that it's going to be in the bottom of the league no matter who ends up working on it until we have a moment of coaching eureka.

And, that's ironically enough what I think might be beneficial about a wholesale change on the blueline-- this club would be forced into reworking the powerplay out of sheer necessity.

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02-16-2010, 03:52 PM
  #91
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Until we get someone who consistently sits his ass in front of the goaltender and doesn't move, our power play with be a pass fest looking for perfect shots with ANY personnel you place out there.

I'm an advocate for splitting Crosby and Malkin up, but even them split up would do nothing unless the goalie can't see what's coming ..... need examples? Washington (Knuble), San Jose (Clowe), Los Angeles (Smyth) .... I can't think of a power play that is excelling without this feature today.

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