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Sather will look to improve Rangers at deadline

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Old
02-16-2010, 10:49 AM
  #51
I Eat Crow
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Exactly what I DID NOT WANT TO HEAR. Could this day get any worse so far?




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Old
02-16-2010, 10:55 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
EXACTLY! Do people want to see this team progress to become a cup-winner or do they want one extra win out of this season before the inevitable faceplant?
Save it.

You're not gonna convince those that want to make the play-offs that they shouldn't want that, if they really want this team to be a contender anytime soon. Some are just as happy as Slats/Dolan are to have their two home games and then be done.

We're all Ranger fans and we all want what's best we just differ in what that is.

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02-16-2010, 10:55 AM
  #53
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I don't understand everyone with their sell sell sell attitudes. As was stated earlier the East is extremely weak this year. The Rangers are 2 i repeat 2 games out of the sixth spot in the East.

For all you people who believe that nothing can happen in the playoffs you are WRONG! We have a great goalie and great goal scorer not to mention lots of recently added toughness. I'm not saying were going to win the cup nor that we are favorites but anything can easily happen when we get to the playoffs.

I don't want to mortgage off our future by any means but if a 2nd round pick will strengthen our team by a significant amount by all means Glen pull the trigger.

Sell prospal and jokinen and this team is worthy of Edmonton status.

I don't post often but I am a frequent visitor to the forum and it makes me sick to see all you people call yourself Rangers fan when all you want to do is see this team lose and sell off valuable assets just so you can say I told you so.

Start your own thread for negative talk about the Rangers and keep it all there because you guys are really beginning to go overboard. I will never root against my team even if its the last game of the season and were out of the playoffs

LGR! All the way

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Old
02-16-2010, 11:02 AM
  #54
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You would hope that Sather has talked to Vinnie about staying on... does he want to? If so for how much? What are Vinnie's thoughts on this? Is he looking for a big payday being that it's probably his last in the NHL? If not would he want to go to a contender for the rest of the season and then comeback to play with Gabs next yr?

If any of these are true... selling him is absolutely what Sather should do.

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Old
02-16-2010, 11:13 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post
I don't understand everyone with their sell sell sell attitudes. As was stated earlier the East is extremely weak this year. The Rangers are 2 i repeat 2 games out of the sixth spot in the East.

For all you people who believe that nothing can happen in the playoffs you are WRONG! We have a great goalie and great goal scorer not to mention lots of recently added toughness. I'm not saying were going to win the cup nor that we are favorites but anything can easily happen when we get to the playoffs.
So, Jody Shelley and Brandon Prust are the key to winning the Cup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post
I don't want to mortgage off our future by any means but if a 2nd round pick will strengthen our team by a significant amount by all means Glen pull the trigger.

Sell prospal and jokinen and this team is worthy of Edmonton status.

I don't post often but I am a frequent visitor to the forum and it makes me sick to see all you people call yourself Rangers fan when all you want to do is see this team lose and sell off valuable assets just so you can say I told you so.

Start your own thread for negative talk about the Rangers and keep it all there because you guys are really beginning to go overboard. I will never root against my team even if its the last game of the season and were out of the playoffs

LGR! All the way
By your logic, Edmonton fans should be advocating that THEY buy too.

The job of management is to take off the fan glasses and make a realistic assessment of the team. You imply by your statement that you can understand why the Edmonton brass would be selling... yet you can't see why the Rangers who are currently 8th from the bottom should perhaps be looking at things the same way?

I can never root against my team when the game is going on, but when it comes to analyzing front office transactions, I have no problem taking a step back and making the call on this season - we can either fight a losing fight and MAYBE win a game or two in the playoffs OR we can sell off non-core assets to improve our chances on a REAL playoff run next year and the years thereafter.

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Old
02-16-2010, 11:21 AM
  #56
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By your logic, Edmonton fans should be advocating that THEY buy too.

The job of management is to take off the fan glasses and make a realistic assessment of the team. You imply by your statement that you can understand why the Edmonton brass would be selling... yet you can't see why the Rangers who are currently 8th from the bottom should perhaps be looking at things the same way?

I can never root against my team when the game is going on, but when it comes to analyzing front office transactions, I have no problem taking a step back and making the call on this season - we can either fight a losing fight and MAYBE win a game or two in the playoffs OR we can sell off non-core assets to improve our chances on a REAL playoff run next year and the years thereafter.


Thank god someone else understands.. you people who want to buy to mortgage the future, im GLAD your not the gm. Seriously ud want to trade a 2nd rnd pick just to pick up a rental who wont help in the playoffs anyway?

we need to be selling off peices that dont fit, shedding salary, and building up our core, (young players and picks) to help with NEXT season and the FUTURE. The way this team is built now, we will not make any noise in the playoffs.. the ultimate goal is to win the cup, not make the playoffs.

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Old
02-16-2010, 11:29 AM
  #57
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Honestly i believe the rangers should be sellers. In both the conventional sense and the one that nets immediate help as well.

Redden + Rosival + Drury = 2/3 at least should be traded.
Prospal = As said previously, he could net the rangers a late first round pick, and still come back next season. Send him to a contender, you'll be doing him a favor by sending him to a winning team that could net him a championship ring, and in the end if he really enjoys it as much as he says he does he can return next season.

If glen can do a trade like -- Dubinsky (I hate giving him up), Rosival, and Sanguinetti for Horton then i'd take it in a heart beat. This team needs more scoring. I dont know why glen didnt give up dubinsky for kessel when he had the chance but this seems like an ideal opportunity to trade a player with a huge cap (rosival) and net some great return. Sanguinetti, in my opinion, will never pan out to the NHL level. I could be wrong, but what i saw of him this pre-season really got me in that mentality.

Then if Glen is able to trade Redden and a decent but not great prospect for Souray that'd be great too. It seems like Redden may benefit from playing in a new place and hte same for Souray. Yes Souray is aging and may be the same story as redden but his contract is up in 2 years and he also has a smaller cap hit. He's more physical and has a better point shot as well, i believe Souray could come to NY and flourish for these next 2 seasons if he was to come.

Drury will likely stay as he has a NTC.

After all of that i believe the rangers will still be contenders, and maybe even better than they were before, however they were still sellers. They'd be able to bring up 2 defensemen for good, probably 2 of Potter/Heikinen/Sauer until Souray came back. That'd give them a more sound defense, and honestly a more productive offense by adding Horton. Then next season they'd have enough cap to sign Kovalchuk and their rookie defensemen will have gained a lot more experience.

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Old
02-16-2010, 11:52 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Ranger86 View Post
Prospal is Torts' golden boy... hes not going anywhere. He likes being a Ranger and has a ton of heart.. we need a vet like that. KEEP HIM!

Jagr Quest 2010!
Yeah, sign him in the summer. Trade him at the deadline.

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Old
02-16-2010, 11:54 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
So, Jody Shelley and Brandon Prust are the key to winning the Cup?



By your logic, Edmonton fans should be advocating that THEY buy too.

The job of management is to take off the fan glasses and make a realistic assessment of the team. You imply by your statement that you can understand why the Edmonton brass would be selling... yet you can't see why the Rangers who are currently 8th from the bottom should perhaps be looking at things the same way?

I can never root against my team when the game is going on, but when it comes to analyzing front office transactions, I have no problem taking a step back and making the call on this season - we can either fight a losing fight and MAYBE win a game or two in the playoffs OR we can sell off non-core assets to improve our chances on a REAL playoff run next year and the years thereafter.
Couldnt agree more.

Im surprised there arent more fans thinking this way. The odds are against the Rangers getting into the playoffs, and even if they do get there it will be the 8th spot and theyll have to face the Caps and their +70 goal differential.

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Old
02-16-2010, 12:02 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post
For all you people who believe that nothing can happen in the playoffs you are WRONG! We have a great goalie and great goal scorer not to mention lots of recently added toughness. I'm not saying were going to win the cup nor that we are favorites but anything can easily happen when we get to the playoffs.
Easily happen? See that's where YOUR wrong, because nothing happens easily in the playoffs. Good goaltending is a must, but it's not the only thing. And you don't have to look too far into the past to see an example. Last year, Lundqvist was incredible for us and he stole multiple games. Ultimately, we lost the series because we were not the better TEAM.

Do you know why the NHL plays a 7 game playoff? Because any team can have a good/lucky game. In the end, the better team almost always moves on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post
Sell prospal and jokinen and this team is worthy of Edmonton status.
Uhh...what exactly does that say about this team's depth and talent-level?

And don't forget, injuries will happen on the course to the finals. You're basically admitting that we can't whether the loss of a top line player.


Last edited by Vito Andolini: 02-16-2010 at 12:08 PM.
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Old
02-16-2010, 12:05 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post
For all you people who believe that nothing can happen in the playoffs you are WRONG!
Actually, in another thread, it was pointed out that, other than the Devils in the lock-out shortened season, no team ranked in the bottom half of their conference has ever won a Cup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post
I don't post often but I am a frequent visitor to the forum and it makes me sick to see all you people call yourself Rangers fan when all you want to do is see this team lose and sell off valuable assets just so you can say I told you so.
All MOST PEOPLE are talking about is selling off the pending UFA's. If Sather doesn't sell them, misses the playoffs and they walk away uncompensated, it's a asset management DISASTER for this team.

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Old
02-16-2010, 12:07 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by kyko1827 View Post
I really am curious what these assets are that you believe he is going to trade. Sports is about WINNNING not selling away your team and tanking. WINNING, herm edwards put it best YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME. But seriously all this tanking talk really pisses me off, you people need to realize that we are the new york rangers we will never stoop to the level of a pathetic franchise such as the penguins. BUY BUY BUY
Prospal will get you a nice return. He makes peanuts, is a hard worker and can play in all offensive situations with both highly skilled players and regular depth forwards. He is THE quintessential veteran rental, especially with a cap hit that can be fit into onto pretty much any team.

You could probably get a good 2nd rounder or a decent prospect for him. You can then take those assets and flip them for a higher pick in the draft or see how they develop. Given Slats trade prowess around here, im surprised more fans arent giddy at the fact that he can pull out the chloroform once again and fleece another GM with a number of different sells.

The problem is retaining every asset you have instead of using them as buying chips, something weve seen Sather do almost every year. The roster turnover is unpalatable from year to year and no WINNING attitude is built because of it. And hey guess what YOU COULD RESIGN PROSPAL IN THE SUMMER.

Who cares about Herm Edwards anyway? What did he ever win?

Pathetic franchise like the Penguins? The same team that went to the finals 2 years in a row and won the cup last year? That team? Sure looks like they did something right. What about the Chicago Blackhawks? They are pretty good this year too huh? We could go down the list in prior years of teams who made the right BUSINESS decisions in many of the major sports.

You people? lol

Lets get something straight here. ITS NOT ABOUT TANKING. Jesus christ thats all i hear around here. Tanking is benching everyone and letting in goals on purpose to lose games. ASSESSING your team correctly is what the seller camp is talking about. Of course you want to keep a winning attitude and culture. You have a lot of rookies on this squad that are still learning, bring up Grachev and Sangs, let them experience the NHL a little more - will that hurt the future?

I honestly want to know your opinion on a few things.


1. Will the Rangers make the playoffs this year?
2. If they make the playoffs are they good enough to win a round? two rounds? The cup?
3. How many years have you been a Rangers fan?

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Old
02-16-2010, 12:08 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
So, Jody Shelley and Brandon Prust are the key to winning the Cup?



By your logic, Edmonton fans should be advocating that THEY buy too.

The job of management is to take off the fan glasses and make a realistic assessment of the team. You imply by your statement that you can understand why the Edmonton brass would be selling... yet you can't see why the Rangers who are currently 8th from the bottom should perhaps be looking at things the same way?

I can never root against my team when the game is going on, but when it comes to analyzing front office transactions, I have no problem taking a step back and making the call on this season - we can either fight a losing fight and MAYBE win a game or two in the playoffs OR we can sell off non-core assets to improve our chances on a REAL playoff run next year and the years thereafter.
How in the gods name did i say Prust and Shelley were the keys to the cup. Obviously they aren't ovechkin or malkin and arent going to put the team on their back and carry them to a cup. In case you haven't noticed one of the major problems of this team in the past including this year has been team toughness. I think glen has addressed that as they are no longer going to be pushed around. With shelley, prust, avery and voros this team is not one you really want to mess with.

You purposely take out pieces of my statement twist them and put them into terms that make you seem right. Did you not see what i posted below that, which stated that i do not believe this team is going to win the cup let alone make a true run for it...no.

Furthermore, how did you come up with my logic saying Edmonton should be buyers. it was fairly clear that my reason for the Rangers being buyers is because they are within 2 games of the sixth spot in the east. Edmonton is 13 games OUT OF THE EIGHTH SPOT in the west.

I understand with what you are saying about GM's having to take off their fan glasses and make sensible moves. The islanders needed to do what they did because they were so terrible that they had no chance of getting better without taking a step back, same with the knicks.

The Rangers have made the playoffs four years in a row and are looking at a fifth. am i happy with a first or second round exit, absolutely not but I truly did not believe this team would even make the playoffs this year.

We have a ton of new young guys that are getting their chance to show what they can do at an NHL level. In a few years we will top notch contenders.

However that does not mean if we make the playoffs we cannot make a run for the cup. As previously stated we have team toughness a great goalie and great goal scorer. We finally have grit which is an important aspect in the playoffs and that is what i wanted to make clear in my previous statement.

I think its time you take your goggles off and stop attempting to twist my statements to make yours seem right...as i said if your having a chance at making the playoffs with game changers such as lundqvist and gaborik you go for it year in and year out.

LGR..ALL THE WAY

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02-16-2010, 12:14 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post

You purposely take out pieces of my statement twist them and put them into terms that make you seem right.
Welcome to HF, lol

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Old
02-16-2010, 12:14 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post
I don't understand everyone with their sell sell sell attitudes. As was stated earlier the East is extremely weak this year. The Rangers are 2 i repeat 2 games out of the sixth spot in the East.

For all you people who believe that nothing can happen in the playoffs you are WRONG! We have a great goalie and great goal scorer not to mention lots of recently added toughness. I'm not saying were going to win the cup nor that we are favorites but anything can easily happen when we get to the playoffs.

I don't want to mortgage off our future by any means but if a 2nd round pick will strengthen our team by a significant amount by all means Glen pull the trigger.

Sell prospal and jokinen and this team is worthy of Edmonton status.

I don't post often but I am a frequent visitor to the forum and it makes me sick to see all you people call yourself Rangers fan when all you want to do is see this team lose and sell off valuable assets just so you can say I told you so.

Start your own thread for negative talk about the Rangers and keep it all there because you guys are really beginning to go overboard. I will never root against my team even if its the last game of the season and were out of the playoffs

LGR! All the way
I'm with you 100% there. I didn't start posting until all the negative stuff finally got to me, but I have to think this isn't reflective of the fanbase at large if that's any consolation.

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02-16-2010, 12:20 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post
am I happy with a first or second round exit, absolutely not but I truly did not believe this team would even make the playoffs this year.
Then why force it?

Glen Sather has been running the show for ten years and has had every possible asset of his own to build a winning franchise - and they havent even gotten out of the second round. You are supposed to be building towards something. This year has transition year written all over it, so treat it like one. Otherwise the wheels will continue to spin.

I understand where you are coming from, and to be honest in most of the other seasons i would agree with you. Dont discount that. The Rangers sucked for a long time, and when Renney came in order was restored and things got better, and they were building. The Cherepanov tragedy really dealt a blow to this team IMO, and stunted that growth to a degree. The way things have gone the past two years and with the future in the balance, its a year where its evident the chart line is plateauing. So for me, its about the longterm. You have a star goalie in his prime and a bonafide sniper. Nows the time to reconstruct around them and not try to make patchwork out of a sinking ship. Those improvements are made by selling and not buying.


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02-16-2010, 12:22 PM
  #67
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OMG some people are just taking this way too seriously. Lets make it really simple.

Ever hear the expression ?

"Sometimes you have to take a step back in order to take two steps forward"

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02-16-2010, 12:23 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Then why force it?

Glen Sather has been running the show for ten years and has had every possible asset of his own to build a winning franchise - and they havent even gotten out of the second round. You are supposed to be building towards something. This year has transition year written all over it, so treat it like one.
Winning begets winning, losing begets losing.

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02-16-2010, 12:24 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
OMG some people are just taking this way too seriously. Lets make it really simple.

Ever hear the expression ?

"Sometimes you have to take a step back in order to take two steps forward"
Ever hear the expression "slippery slope"?

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02-16-2010, 12:25 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
rather than try to pawn our garbage off and get back garbage in return, we need to realize that you need to give something to get something back.

dubi is that guy.
A lateral trade is a lateral trade. Or are you expecting that Sather will somehow fleece the other team and trade Dubi for a much better player?

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he held out so there that latent anger still there i believe
Whose latent anger? Yours?

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he was mentioned in deals over the summer so hes been in play before

his name is always brought up now, so hes in play again now i believe
He's mentioned in all those deals because all those other teams want him. Despite that, we haven't given him up. That should tell you something.

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he got paid this year to produce and inspite of prime time minutes, really hasnt
False. He got paid as a restricted free agent and has improved upon his numbers from last year in terms of points per game.

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there are some under rumblings of his maturity level
Really? Can you provide a link?

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02-16-2010, 12:28 PM
  #71
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I can almost guarantee that Sather wont trade any of our top-flight prospects at the deadline. If you look at the last few years, he's given up nothing above mediocre (Cliche, Dawes, Prucha, Kalinin, Montoya, Hossa, Niemenen) when he trades at or around the deadline.

I have to think he will maintain that stance. If he does make a move or two, it wont cripple the organization.

Think about what he wasnt going to give up for Kovy or Heatley.

I still think think the team will make the playoffs. Looking at the guys we drafted since the lockout, you can easily say that making the playoffs doesnt hurt this team come draft day

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02-16-2010, 12:39 PM
  #72
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[QUOTE=HockeyBasedNYC;23939738]Lets get something straight here. ITS NOT ABOUT TANKING. Jesus christ thats all i hear around here. Tanking is benching everyone and letting in goals on purpose to lose games. ASSESSING your team correctly is what the seller camp is talking about. Of course you want to keep a winning attitude and culture. You have a lot of rookies on this squad that are still learning, bring up Grachev and Sangs, let them experience the NHL a little more - will that hurt the future?[QUOTE]


Thank you. Very well said.

Wanting a culture change and a larger emphasis on youth, not to mention a chance to let them gain NHL experience and a shot at drafting a top talent, isn't defeatism.

It's crazy to think the Rangers fans on these very boards who have no problem showing their disdain for that premise this season were the same guys who were hooting and hollering with glee when Sather unloaded the entire roster for draft picks and prospects in 2004.


That being said, it's still fun to say the word "tank" but it is often overused and misunderstood.

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02-16-2010, 12:40 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus View Post
I can almost guarantee that Sather wont trade any of our top-flight prospects at the deadline. If you look at the last few years, he's given up nothing above mediocre (Cliche, Dawes, Prucha, Kalinin, Montoya, Hossa, Niemenen) when he trades at or around the deadline.

I have to think he will maintain that stance. If he does make a move or two, it wont cripple the organization.

Think about what he wasnt going to give up for Kovy or Heatley.

I still think think the team will make the playoffs. Looking at the guys we drafted since the lockout, you can easily say that making the playoffs doesnt hurt this team come draft day
You see, thats part of the problem in and of itself. That deal was purely about cap mistakes and signing underachieving veterans to terrible contracts that handcuffed the team. Dawes and Prucha HAD to be traded. It was just a choice of who on the team was to be dealt, not if they should or shouldnt go. The problem he put himself in with all of the upcoming RFAs he had to sign in the offseason (and not enough room to fit them all in) forced his hand. Another mismanagement of assets IMO.

This circumstance is different, and he has a chance to capitalize on it. He isnt forced to trade anyone really, other than to allow himself room to sign Stall (and maybe Girardi). I agree if he makes trades they wont cripple the team. But continuing to "buy" each year degrades the assets on your team over time, instead of using a season like this year to stop that cycle to pick up some assets that could be used to bring in some talent via a trade rather than free agency, and real talent that wont cripple your organization. For once he has an opportunity to go the other way.

For instance, Dubinskys name was thrown around in the Heatley trade. Dubinsky might not have been the name blocking the trade had Sather managed his assets better. Who knows the Rangers could have had Heatley, Dubinsky and Gaborik on the same line right now. Whether you wanted the guy or not its just an example of how critical these deadline decision are when talking about the future, especially given Sathers prowess with making trades.


Last edited by HockeyBasedNYC: 02-16-2010 at 12:47 PM.
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02-16-2010, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
Winning begets winning, losing begets losing.
That's a ridiculous oversimplification of things.

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02-16-2010, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
he will. and we all know it.

im sure rozy is a gonner, hes played just well enough for slats to sell him to someone looking for a guy who can turn the puck over up the middle and shy away from contact in the corners.

its time to all realize the fastest way to improve the team long term is to sell off the following players and move on

rozy
girardi
prospal
jokinen
dubinsky

and dump mary lou redden already

those guys will fetch a decent return in picks and perhaps a decent young power forward type.

clear some space, call up the kids and let them play, finish out the season, go to the draft with a boatload of 2nd rounders and possibly move up if need be, and get to july and see what happens.

thats the plan that will work.

slats will, of course, do the opposite.
why the frack is he included in this?

Lisin should be on this btw.

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