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Old
02-18-2010, 12:01 PM
  #1
Zillaege
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Buff - Edm

To Buffalo:
Dustin Penner
Lubomir Visnovsky

To Edmonton:
Thomas Vanek

Buffalo has gone with a very similar team the past 3 years and have gotten very similar results. IMO they're in need of a shakeup and a bit of a different look. Penner adds some serious size to a top 6 that desperately needs it, and Visnovsky will greatly improve Buffalo's PP and transition game. Edmonton gets themselves a big time goal scorer to play opposite hemsky, and have clearly shown interest in him in the past. Buffalo pick's up 4 million in salary in 10-11, and 2 million in 11-12, which might make the deal harder for them (they operate on a budget I believe?). They also pick up almost 3 million in cap hit, which is another minus for them. I'm sure other pieces would need to be added to equal out the value, but what do you guys think of it as a framework?

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Old
02-18-2010, 12:04 PM
  #2
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zillaege View Post
To Buffalo:
Dustin Penner
Lubomir Visnovsky

To Edmonton:
Thomas Vanek

Buffalo has gone with a very similar team the past 3 years and have gotten very similar results. IMO they're in need of a shakeup and a bit of a different look. Penner adds some serious size to a top 6 that desperately needs it, and Visnovsky will greatly improve Buffalo's PP and transition game. Edmonton gets themselves a big time goal scorer to play opposite hemsky, and have clearly shown interest in him in the past. Buffalo pick's up 4 million in salary in 10-11, and 2 million in 11-12, which might make the deal harder for them (they operate on a budget I believe?). They also pick up almost 3 million in cap hit, which is another minus for them. I'm sure other pieces would need to be added to equal out the value, but what do you guys think of it as a framework?
no thanks from Buffalo... if you add 4 first rounders maybe we'll think about it...

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Old
02-18-2010, 12:09 PM
  #3
Ghetto Sangria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
no thanks from Buffalo... if you add 4 first rounders maybe we'll think about it...
You actually get the best value out of this deal I find.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zillaege View Post
To Buffalo:
Dustin Penner
Lubomir Visnovsky

To Edmonton:
Thomas Vanek

Buffalo has gone with a very similar team the past 3 years and have gotten very similar results. IMO they're in need of a shakeup and a bit of a different look. Penner adds some serious size to a top 6 that desperately needs it, and Visnovsky will greatly improve Buffalo's PP and transition game. Edmonton gets themselves a big time goal scorer to play opposite hemsky, and have clearly shown interest in him in the past. Buffalo pick's up 4 million in salary in 10-11, and 2 million in 11-12, which might make the deal harder for them (they operate on a budget I believe?). They also pick up almost 3 million in cap hit, which is another minus for them. I'm sure other pieces would need to be added to equal out the value, but what do you guys think of it as a framework?
However, the cap hit going back to Buffalo is ridiculous! Penner is a replacement for Vanek... obviously not as good, but Lubo adds some serious transition game that I feel Buffalo needs more of.

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Old
02-18-2010, 12:09 PM
  #4
madpooh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zillaege View Post

Buffalo has gone with a very similar team the past 3 years and have gotten very similar results.
last 2 years they didn't make the playoffs but this year aren't they in 1st in there division (or 1 point behind Ott with 3 games in hand).

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Old
02-18-2010, 12:15 PM
  #5
Ghetto Sangria
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Originally Posted by madpooh View Post
last 2 years they didn't make the playoffs but this year aren't they in 1st in there division (or 1 point behind Ott with 3 games in hand).
yah but they have trailed off pretty bad

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Old
02-18-2010, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeCammalleri View Post
You actually get the best value out of this deal I find.
Nope.

Penner is massively overrated on HF. He's come back down to Earth with 5 goals in the last two months after his ridiculously overrated start.

Buffalo doesn't need Visnovsky either since Myers is already holding down the #1 defender role without problem.

So Buffalo gives up a 40 goal scorer, for an overpaid 2nd/3rd line power forward and a defensemen they dont NEED...

meanwhile, Edmonton unloads TWO big long term contracts and gets exactly what they need...

yea, sure... the value favors Buffalo ....

Buffalo would certainly improve by adding either Penner or Lubo... but not at the expense of Vanek their best goal scorer. Buffalo would like to add those 2 secondary elements: a physical top 9er (Penner) and a puck mover (Lubo), but not at the expense of their franchise 40 goal scorer.

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Old
02-18-2010, 12:18 PM
  #7
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Vanek's contract is way to big, so while he may be the best player in the deal, it really isn't worth it.

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Old
02-18-2010, 12:18 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zillaege View Post
To Buffalo:
Dustin Penner
Lubomir Visnovsky

To Edmonton:
Thomas Vanek

Buffalo has gone with a very similar team the past 3 years and have gotten very similar results. IMO they're in need of a shakeup and a bit of a different look. Penner adds some serious size to a top 6 that desperately needs it, and Visnovsky will greatly improve Buffalo's PP and transition game. Edmonton gets themselves a big time goal scorer to play opposite hemsky, and have clearly shown interest in him in the past. Buffalo pick's up 4 million in salary in 10-11, and 2 million in 11-12, which might make the deal harder for them (they operate on a budget I believe?). They also pick up almost 3 million in cap hit, which is another minus for them. I'm sure other pieces would need to be added to equal out the value, but what do you guys think of it as a framework?
It's an interesting premise.

The "budget" comment is pretty far off base -- they've been with a short distance of max'd to the cap each of the last three years (including doing recall shuffles akin to what the Pens are doing by sending guys down for practice and recalling them only for games in '06-07). They have almost $6 million in accrued available contract space right now, so in the short-term it isn't an issue.

Any way to get Brule or Potulny into the deal?

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Old
02-18-2010, 12:18 PM
  #9
Zillaege
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Originally Posted by madpooh View Post
last 2 years they didn't make the playoffs but this year aren't they in 1st in there division (or 1 point behind Ott with 3 games in hand).
They're free falling pretty hard. They're way too soft IMO. Soft on the ice and soft mentally, they need a shakeup. A veteran presence in their top 6 is also desperately needed I think.

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Old
02-18-2010, 12:22 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Nope.

Penner is massively overrated on HF. He's come back down to Earth with 5 goals in the last two months after his ridiculously overrated start.

Buffalo doesn't need Visnovsky either since Myers is already holding down the #1 defender role without problem.

So Buffalo gives up a 40 goal scorer, for an overpaid 2nd/3rd line power forward and a defensemen they dont NEED...

meanwhile, Edmonton unloads TWO big long term contracts and gets exactly what they need...

yea, sure... the value favors Buffalo ....

Buffalo would certainly improve by adding either Penner or Lubo... but not at the expense of Vanek their best goal scorer. Buffalo would like to add those 2 secondary elements: a physical top 9er (Penner) and a puck mover (Lubo), but not at the expense of their franchise 40 goal scorer.
I disagree -- Visnovsky is exactly the type of dynamic transition player the Sabres do need. It may not be a deal that works with Vanek in it -- I'm still more partial to seeing if they can wave Stafford at the Oil for something than putting Vanek out there -- but getting someone who is able to jumpstart the offensive game consistently and at the level Vis has show he can? Yes... that's needed, regardless of where Myers is.

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Old
02-18-2010, 12:31 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
I disagree -- Visnovsky is exactly the type of dynamic transition player the Sabres do need. It may not be a deal that works with Vanek in it -- I'm still more partial to seeing if they can wave Stafford at the Oil for something than putting Vanek out there -- but getting someone who is able to jumpstart the offensive game consistently and at the level Vis has show he can? Yes... that's needed, regardless of where Myers is.
i stated that Buffalo could use BOTH these players, but not at the expense of their young 40 goal scorer. filling TWO secondary holes, while creating 1 primary hole, is not the right direction...

I would gladly put a package together that got edmonton serious salary relief and a handful of assets to rebuild with. but the deal does NOT work based around Vanek at all.

Something based around Stafford, Sekera, prospect, pick... then we can talk...

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Old
02-18-2010, 12:35 PM
  #12
Ron Barr
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The only reason why anyone would even consider this a fair trade is because of Vanek's slump right now, and Penner's hot start this year. If Vanek were playing like he was last year, then people would call this proposal a joke.

We already have 7 or 8 NHL level defensemen. Myers is one of the most dynamic defensemen I've ever seen in Buffalo, and Butler and Sekera could develop into fine offensive defensemen. We don't need defense right now IMO.

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Old
02-18-2010, 12:49 PM
  #13
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^^
I do think we need upgrades on defense in order to truly be considered a contender. We need a top 3-4 guy that can play on the PP, so Rivet can be relieved of his duties on the second unit. Personally, I'd like to trade Rivet mainly because of the fear of how bad he could be next year. I'd like to get a guy like Fedor Tyutin, Jan Hejda, etc. I wonder what Columbus would want in return.

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Old
02-18-2010, 11:15 PM
  #14
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No from oilers and from Sabres. We don't trade for a player that takes up 7mill+ and is not a ppg. We trade penner and lubo for future considerations to lower out caphit. Plus this is HF since when did a team trade away there best player even if they are offered equal value.

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Old
02-19-2010, 12:49 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
I disagree -- Visnovsky is exactly the type of dynamic transition player the Sabres do need. It may not be a deal that works with Vanek in it -- I'm still more partial to seeing if they can wave Stafford at the Oil for something than putting Vanek out there -- but getting someone who is able to jumpstart the offensive game consistently and at the level Vis has show he can? Yes... that's needed, regardless of where Myers is.
I agree with you. I've been saying it for quite some time now. Lubomir Visnovsky would be a nice piece to add. He would fill in a lot of needs. I've been saying we should try assembling a package involving Stafford and seeing if Edmonton would be willing to part with Lubo. Rumors are he's unhappy there. I don't think it would be impossible prying him out of there, as they will be rebuilding and should be looking to get rid of veterans with longer contracts. He's exactly the type of player we're looking for. Unfortunately, it makes too much sense to happen.

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Old
02-19-2010, 12:58 AM
  #16
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Originally Posted by Rivet52 View Post
I agree with you. I've been saying it for quite some time now. Lubomir Visnovsky would be a nice piece to add. He would fill in a lot of needs. I've been saying we should try assembling a package involving Stafford and seeing if Edmonton would be willing to part with Lubo. Rumors are he's unhappy there. I don't think it would be impossible prying him out of there, as they will be rebuilding and should be looking to get rid of veterans with longer contracts. He's exactly the type of player we're looking for. Unfortunately, it makes too much sense to happen.
He is definitely unhappy here and I'm sure he'd waive his NMC in a second. I remember there was an interview in Slovakian before with Visnovsky, and he look utterly heartbroken. He's one of the only veterans that I'd want to keep though.

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Old
02-19-2010, 01:10 AM
  #17
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Hell no from Edmonton.

We don't NEED to trade Penner. And Penner and Lubo combined out value Vannek.

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02-19-2010, 01:49 AM
  #18
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Hell no from Edmonton.

We don't NEED to trade Penner. And Penner and Lubo combined out value Vannek.
Exactly, bad deal for the Oilers. The only positive would be that we'd shed salary.

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02-19-2010, 02:35 AM
  #19
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I will also give this one a thumbs down from the Oilers side. The issue with Penner production is 100% linked to the loss of Hemsky. Vishnovski is the best player in this deal right now and the oilers will need him going forward. I love the thought of Vanek and his contract is not an issue, but not at the cost of Penner and Vishnovski.

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02-19-2010, 03:22 AM
  #20
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Exactly, bad deal for the Oilers. The only positive would be that we'd shed salary.
Yep. We need to shed salary but that doesn't mean we need to lose our good contracts and kill our depth while we're at it.

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Old
02-19-2010, 06:51 AM
  #21
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Nope.

Penner is massively overrated on HF. He's come back down to Earth with 5 goals in the last two months after his ridiculously overrated start.

Buffalo doesn't need Visnovsky either since Myers is already holding down the #1 defender role without problem.

So Buffalo gives up a 40 goal scorer, for an overpaid 2nd/3rd line power forward and a defensemen they dont NEED...

meanwhile, Edmonton unloads TWO big long term contracts and gets exactly what they need...

yea, sure... the value favors Buffalo ....

Buffalo would certainly improve by adding either Penner or Lubo... but not at the expense of Vanek their best goal scorer. Buffalo would like to add those 2 secondary elements: a physical top 9er (Penner) and a puck mover (Lubo), but not at the expense of their franchise 40 goal scorer.
Speaking of overated, how bout that Thomas Vanek ? He has 6 less goals than Penner this year and has a higher cap hit.

I think this is an interesting proposal, and could be tweeked a bit more with some picks and/or prospects

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02-19-2010, 08:18 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Foppa2189 View Post
The only reason why anyone would even consider this a fair trade is because of Vanek's slump right now, and Penner's hot start this year. If Vanek were playing like he was last year, then people would call this proposal a joke.

We already have 7 or 8 NHL level defensemen. Myers is one of the most dynamic defensemen I've ever seen in Buffalo, and Butler and Sekera could develop into fine offensive defensemen. We don't need defense right now IMO.
If we're looking just at Visnovsky for _____, Lubo IS already a find offensive defenseman the likes of which the Sabres haven't had since Campbell left. From what I've seen of him, he is better in his own zone than Campbell too -- so feeding him minutes in all situations on the non-Myers 2nd pairing would allow them to limit some players time (no more need for Rivet on the PP) into more effective roles and gives Butler/Sekera more time to develop (or be traded if it improves the scoring lines). I'm all for potential... both of them have it. I'm also all for having the productive player NOW when they could actually make it out of the first round and bask in some much needed playoff revenue.

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Old
02-19-2010, 08:53 AM
  #23
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I think Vis could really jumpstart Vanek's powerplay production. He seems like a guy who can consistently get the puck on net and keep it low, and Vanek thrives off of those rebounds in front.

With that in mind, trading Vanek, who would benefit most from having Vis, for Vis, makes no sense.

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Old
02-19-2010, 09:33 AM
  #24
Jame
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Speaking of overated, how bout that Thomas Vanek ? He has 6 less goals than Penner this year and has a higher cap hit.

I think this is an interesting proposal, and could be tweeked a bit more with some picks and/or prospects
Vanek has SIGNIFICANTLY outscored Penner in each of the previous 5 seasons. Vanek is not overrated, or underrated, he is simply a very good 26 yr old goal scorer. He's not elite, but he's not ordinary like Penner either.

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Old
02-19-2010, 09:34 AM
  #25
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Edmonton has always been interested in Stafford. I wonder if something could be built around Stafford for Lubo? With Buffalo adding a few young pieces in the form of picks and/or prospects.

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