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Should the NHL create the WNHL?

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Old
02-18-2010, 12:42 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeIsAStud View Post
The WNBA has largely been a disaster so far. No one watches on TV, The arena's are half empty or worse.

The NHL could not afford to lose the money that the NBA has thrown away on the WNBA. And teh WNBA actually has network and cable TV contracts because ESPN and ABC fear the NBA and will do anything to be on their good side.

i wouldn't expect the NHL would have any power at all to bully a TV network into paying for the right's to broadcast games no one watches.
No one watches the ECHL on TV or Jr A hockey but those leagues exist. The WNBA has been a total failure because they have tried to create a national league from coast to coast in NBA sized arenas. Their vision was not in touch with reality. I think that it is possible for a league to exist IF they get out of the huge arenas and regionalize the sport to limit travel costs, but that would be a foolish investment

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02-18-2010, 12:45 PM
  #27
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There needs to be a natural evolution fron a club league to a semi-pro league to a pro league. It should grow as interest allows it. To mimic what the NBA did with the WNBA begs not only for failure with an WNHL, but could hurt the NHL.
The WNBA was and is a failure as a league. Attendence for most teams would cause college basketball programs to question continuing. Though 2009 was the best year ever and thh league has been in existance for more than a decade, most teams are still subsidized by the NBA (operate in the red).
The NBA has some room to operate, I'm not sure the NHL could sustain supporting a WNHL league for 10 years with no hope of profitability in sight.

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02-18-2010, 12:54 PM
  #28
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They need to allow checking. And fighting for that matter, I think people would be interested then.

Also, if there was a women's league, does that man there would be scantily dressed men prancing around throwng people t-shirts?

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02-18-2010, 01:04 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
Would Montreal need a separate team, or could they just use their current NHL roster?
You should be a stand up comedian Kaoz. You are hillarious

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02-18-2010, 01:10 PM
  #30
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Looks like they are way ahead of you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa..._Hockey_League

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02-18-2010, 01:14 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stick9 View Post
Looks like they are way ahead of you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa..._Hockey_League
That league was an example of what not to do, expanding to Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver with the majority of teams in Ontario and Quebec. I am sure this created a travel nightmare for a league with limited resources.

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02-18-2010, 01:17 PM
  #32
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Ice boys...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holie Goalie View Post
Also, if there was a women's league, does that man there would be scantily dressed men prancing around throwng people t-shirts?


beaverjc would have season tix.
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Old
02-18-2010, 01:28 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stick9 View Post
Looks like they are way ahead of you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa..._Hockey_League
But didn't have support from the NHL. I think for any league to potentially survive, it's going to need some support from the NHL.

As for fan support, any time Team Canada plays Team USA, there is more fan support there than in some NHL cities. I realize that they are bigger games than a regular season NHL game, but doesn't the fact that people show up mean that they support it?

As for attendance at the Olympics, the TC games seem to have good attendance. No, i wouldnt want to go see TC vs Sweden, but i can guarantee Team USA vs Team Canada will be a packed house and dare i say with many US fans making the trip to Vancouver.

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02-18-2010, 01:28 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iRONic™ View Post


beaverjc would have season tix.
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Male figure skaters? Not what I had in mind. Though, I do think Johnny Weir is a riot. Imagine the reception they'd get from the hockey crowd.

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Old
02-18-2010, 01:32 PM
  #35
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i don't mean to be a sexist...but there is no way there should be a WNHL.

- the game is very slow
- body contact is a penalty...which is brutal
- the passing is just BAD - off target 80% of the time
- the shots are weak (with a few exceptions of course)
- it literally looks like a pee-wee game without checking

I'm not a he-man woman hater or anything, but the women's hockey has been terrible. I have no doubt in my mind from what I saw in Canada's games that the USA will slaughter them...and if they don't, it's just embarrassing.

Haley Wickenheiser is as bad for women's hockey as Michelle Wie is for women's golf. Quit trying to prove your an "equal" in the men's league, because by missing the cut by several strokes or being a depth player in an non-elite league because of publicity makes women's sports look worse. Wickenheiser is worse...because what man isn't going to let up on a woman when it comes to contact. Not only would the stigma attached to "hitting a woman" be there, but NOT checking her 100% and then having her get around you could cost you a job...that's all kinds of unfair ********, IMO!

Once again, I'm not a sexist he-man woman hater...the game is just less exciting...I cannot see any reason to try to sell a "WNHL" when you can't even sell the Atlanta Thrashers with a top 5 player in the world on the team...

PS - running up the score on a team like Slovakia who had never had an olympic hockey team is bad sportsmanship no matter how much Cassie Campbell wants to persuade you...there's a difference between running the score up on a team like Norway or Switzerland 8-0 when they have NHL goaltending or some NHL talent as opposed to a crushing a country who has never been in the Olympics for an already unpopular sport 18-0.


Last edited by BallroomBitz: 02-18-2010 at 01:41 PM.
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Old
02-18-2010, 01:38 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeIsAStud View Post
The WNBA has largely been a disaster so far. No one watches on TV, The arena's are half empty or worse.

The NHL could not afford to lose the money that the NBA has thrown away on the WNBA. And teh WNBA actually has network and cable TV contracts because ESPN and ABC fear the NBA and will do anything to be on their good side.

i wouldn't expect the NHL would have any power at all to bully a TV network into paying for the right's to broadcast games no one watches.
^

The only post that matters in this entire thread. This is the bottom line.

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Old
02-18-2010, 01:42 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BallroomBitz View Post
i don't mean to be a sexist...but there is no way there should be a WNHL.

- the game is very slow
- body contact is a penalty...which is brutal
- the passing is just BAD - off target 80% of the time
- the shots are weak (with a few exceptions of course)
- it literally looks like a pee-wee game without checking

I'm not a he-man woman hater or anything, but the women's hockey has been terrible. I have no doubt in my mind from what I saw in Canada's games that the USA will slaughter them...and if they don't, it's just embarrassing.

Haley Wickenheiser is as bad for women's hockey as Michelle Wie is for women's golf. Quit trying to prove your an "equal" in the men's league, because by missing the cut by several strokes or being a depth player in an elite league because of publicity makes women's sports look worse. Wickenheiser is worse...because what man isn't going to let up on a woman when it comes to contact. Not only would the stigma attached to "hitting a woman" be there, but NOT checking her 100% and then having her get around you could cost you a job...that's all kinds of unfair ********, IMO!

Once again, I'm not a sexist he-man woman hater...the game is just less exciting...I cannot see any reason to try to sell a "WNHL" when you can't even sell the Atlanta Thrashers with a top 5 player in the world on the team...

PS - running up the score on a team like Slovakia who had never had an olympic hockey team is bad sportsmanship no matter how much Cassie Campbell wants to persuade you...there's a difference between running the score up on a team like Norway or Switzerland 8-0 when they have NHL goaltending or some NHL talent as opposed to a crushing a country who has never been in the Olympics for an already unpopular sport 18-0.
I disagree with pretty much everything you wrote...except about the fact that the "WNHL" wouldn't work.

I used to be pretty tough on women's hockey. No checking, the shots always seemed pretty weak, it was a pretty slow skating game. But, I have been nothing short of VERY IMPRESSED with teams like Canada, USA, Slovakia, Switzerland, etc. Those girls know how to play, no matter how much we all like to pretend we're better players, and how much we say "it's not really hockey" because body checking isn't allowed.

I'm not usually a defendant of women's sports (I've been accused of being sexist more than once on this board), but drop the stereotypes for a second and try to watch a women's game without the hate glasses on, and don't go out of your way to compare it to the men's tournament every chance you get. I really doubt you aren't impressed.

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02-18-2010, 01:50 PM
  #38
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Old
02-18-2010, 01:53 PM
  #39
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Other end of the spectrum:

I don't really like NASCAR (but my father loves it so I'm forced to know at least a little about it) but am actually going to follow it now that Danica is racing - and I'm pretty sure NASCAR is going to b getting a few more viewers because of her.

Im hoping she can make the transition from Indie and start beating the good ole boys in some of the races. I'd love to see her shut up the "no offence but women suck at everything" crowd. It's not a "sport" that requires brute force or physical size so this may be something that we can see as a coed "sport" in the near future. Hopefully she'll avoid the obligatoy 12 car pileup in the next one.

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Old
02-18-2010, 01:57 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmiller010 View Post
I disagree with pretty much everything you wrote...except about the fact that the "WNHL" wouldn't work.

I used to be pretty tough on women's hockey. No checking, the shots always seemed pretty weak, it was a pretty slow skating game. But, I have been nothing short of VERY IMPRESSED with teams like Canada, USA, Slovakia, Switzerland, etc. Those girls know how to play, no matter how much we all like to pretend we're better players, and how much we say "it's not really hockey" because body checking isn't allowed.

I'm not usually a defendant of women's sports (I've been accused of being sexist more than once on this board), but drop the stereotypes for a second and try to watch a women's game without the hate glasses on, and don't go out of your way to compare it to the men's tournament every chance you get. I really doubt you aren't impressed.
^
Women may play the sports differently than men but there's still talent there and it is still fun to watch. I do think there should be checking in women's hockey though.

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Old
02-18-2010, 01:58 PM
  #41
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Success of countries in sports is directly related to the recruitment of kids to play the sport, and a high level of coaching while the kids are developing. It doesn't matter how elite a professional league is, if players from other countries aren't good enough to play in it. I think at this point, enhancing the viability of womens hockey in North America is only going to increase the gap, as it'll increase the opportunities for NA kids to play in it and get better. It's a long climb for countries to become competitive in a sport when they're starting from the ground up, unfortunately the gap is going to remain wide for some time, and I don't think an NHL backed professional league here will make a difference.

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02-18-2010, 02:00 PM
  #42
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I am completely supportive of womens hockey and womens sports. I have no real interest in watching womens hockey at this point in the games development. I would watch an American snake fight a Canadian mongoose, so the Olympics are a terrible judge of what would work.*

*See womens soccer after the World Cup in America.

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Old
02-18-2010, 02:09 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmiller010 View Post
I disagree with pretty much everything you wrote...except about the fact that the "WNHL" wouldn't work.

I used to be pretty tough on women's hockey. No checking, the shots always seemed pretty weak, it was a pretty slow skating game. But, I have been nothing short of VERY IMPRESSED with teams like Canada, USA, Slovakia, Switzerland, etc. Those girls know how to play, no matter how much we all like to pretend we're better players, and how much we say "it's not really hockey" because body checking isn't allowed.

I'm not usually a defendant of women's sports (I've been accused of being sexist more than once on this board), but drop the stereotypes for a second and try to watch a women's game without the hate glasses on, and don't go out of your way to compare it to the men's tournament every chance you get. I really doubt you aren't impressed.
don't try to make me out to be some kind of dick because I think women's hockey is not exciting or fun to watch. It's got nothing to do with your characterizations of me stereotyping non-body contract hockey as bad hockey.

I watched the canada vs slovakia game and it's probably the most pathetic display of an 18 goal game i've ever seen in my life. There might have been 2 crisp passes the entire game(85% were behind the inteded player or just plain off target), the shooting was terribly weak, it was painfully slow, and the only thing that impressed me was the goaltending from canada (made some good saves despite getting no work.

acting as though i've got "hate glasses" on for a female sport just because I find it to be low quality hockey...which many will agree with me on...does not make me a hater of women or women's sports.

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02-18-2010, 02:25 PM
  #44
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Personally, I'm more looking forward to the USA vs Canada women's match-up than the men's version. I'd rather see teams of athletes that have practiced and trained together for months than a bunch of cobbled-together pros, even if the hockey isn't as slick. I find men's Olympic hockey just barely more interesting to watch than the NHL All-Star game, and only because I'm following individual Bruins.

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02-18-2010, 02:30 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
I am completely supportive of womens hockey and womens sports. I have no real interest in watching womens hockey at this point in the games development. I would watch an American snake fight a Canadian mongoose, so the Olympics are a terrible judge of what would work.*

*See womens soccer after the World Cup in America.
I think it is pretty obvious that America loves people and teams that are dominant in international competitions. And I doubt we're the only country that feels like that. Womens World Cup Soccer is just an example of that. There are also Micheal Phelps, track stars, even Lance Armstrong, although a cylcist did have to win 4 or 5 tour de Frances before people knew who he was because the event was so obscure and uncovered here before. But once you remove the international competition, or the dominance, then nobody cares any more.

And Americans have never seemed to warm up to women in team sports. If they are cute and in individual sports, like Tennis, then maybe they can make it as a star. You have to be immensely dominant to become a famous female athlete if you're not attractive, although the Williams sisters and Martina Navratilova managed to do it. But lesser players like Anna Kournikova just had to be hot and somewhat successful to be big names. Is it sexist? Yeah, probably. The sports watching crowd is mostly male. I think women grow up and mature a little more than us men do, and we're stuck as 15 year olds worshiping sports heroes and memorizing stats.

So women's team sports end up pitching their product to youth girls leagues and sometimes local lesbian populations if they're in a bigger city. Some WNBA teams got in trouble for this when some more conservative girls leagues found out they were advertising in newspapers aimed at the local lesbian scene. As if the presence of one of those groups near the other would make all world morality collapse. Nothing wrong with either of those crowds to me, but both kind of niche markets that are hard to build a large lucrative sports market out of.

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02-18-2010, 02:32 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BallroomBitz View Post
don't try to make me out to be some kind of dick because I think women's hockey is not exciting or fun to watch. It's got nothing to do with your characterizations of me stereotyping non-body contract hockey as bad hockey.

I watched the canada vs slovakia game and it's probably the most pathetic display of an 18 goal game i've ever seen in my life. There might have been 2 crisp passes the entire game(85% were behind the inteded player or just plain off target), the shooting was terribly weak, it was painfully slow, and the only thing that impressed me was the goaltending from canada (made some good saves despite getting no work.

acting as though i've got "hate glasses" on for a female sport just because I find it to be low quality hockey...which many will agree with me on...does not make me a hater of women or women's sports.
Then come back to this thread when USA plays Canada. Talent vs. Talent. Obviously blow outs aren't real interesting, men or women **coughNorwaycough**. I personally can't wait for the USA VS Canada game.

I'm certainly not saying your wearing your hate glasses. I am just mighty sick of people using such words as "pathetic" "weak" and "painfully slow" to describe womens sports. Nobody will invest in womens sports while that attitude persists. Not specifically you, I mean generally. People need to stop dumping on it so much and try to grow the sport instead.

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02-18-2010, 02:40 PM
  #47
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No to the WNHL, but I do like watching the women's games in the Olympics. It's not as fast, of course, but the skill level is high and I enjoy the games.

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02-18-2010, 02:55 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holie Goalie View Post
Then come back to this thread when USA plays Canada. Talent vs. Talent. Obviously blow outs aren't real interesting, men or women **coughNorwaycough**. I personally can't wait for the USA VS Canada game.

I'm certainly not saying your wearing your hate glasses. I am just mighty sick of people using such words as "pathetic" "weak" and "painfully slow" to describe womens sports. Nobody will invest in womens sports while that attitude persists. Not specifically you, I mean generally. People need to stop dumping on it so much and try to grow the sport instead.
No. Women's hockey is miserable. No contact hockey? So boys are allowed to hit at age 11, but grown women can not hit? Terrible. Not to mention that as Everett Mike alluded too and I will take a step further, a decent boys high school hockey team would smoke the US Women's olympic team.

Hell I was in a league a few years ago where half the BC Women's team joined during the summer to skate. They went 0-10 and were outscored 135-14. And this was a random men's league in Newton.

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02-18-2010, 03:24 PM
  #49
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No. Women's hockey is miserable. No contact hockey? So boys are allowed to hit at age 11, but grown women can not hit? Terrible. Not to mention that as Everett Mike alluded too and I will take a step further, a decent boys high school hockey team would smoke the US Women's olympic team.

Hell I was in a league a few years ago where half the BC Women's team joined during the summer to skate. They went 0-10 and were outscored 135-14. And this was a random men's league in Newton.
Wow! Congratulations!!

I do agree checking should be allowed in women's hockey, though.

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02-18-2010, 03:25 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by BallroomBitz View Post
don't try to make me out to be some kind of dick because I think women's hockey is not exciting or fun to watch. It's got nothing to do with your characterizations of me stereotyping non-body contract hockey as bad hockey.

I watched the canada vs slovakia game and it's probably the most pathetic display of an 18 goal game i've ever seen in my life. There might have been 2 crisp passes the entire game(85% were behind the inteded player or just plain off target), the shooting was terribly weak, it was painfully slow, and the only thing that impressed me was the goaltending from canada (made some good saves despite getting no work.

acting as though i've got "hate glasses" on for a female sport just because I find it to be low quality hockey...which many will agree with me on...does not make me a hater of women or women's sports.
I'm not trying to make you out to be a dick. A lot of other people share your exact same thoughts.

I don't know if you do or not, but it's my belief that a lot of people diss women's hockey just because that's the stereotype. Of course, it doesn't match up to the men...duh. What makes the game entertaining for me is seeing how far the elite programs have come in ten years. This year's TEAM USA could beat the Team USA of the 1998 Olympics 20-0. People always say "just give women time, it'll get better" and most of the time I have my doubts. But, there are clear, noticeable changes and improvements to the way these girls (let's be honest, most are women), play hockey nowadays. To me, that makes it very much worth watching.

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