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St. Johns verses BINGHAMTON GDT - SAT JAN 22nd

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01-23-2005, 05:55 PM
  #51
Clutch Mediocrity
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Originally Posted by Christ
What makes you think that Stajan's AHL production should be compared to Spezza's?
That was more to draw attention to all the talk of "and all while he's been on the 4th line, etc etc" in regards to his NHL production. When the tables are turned Spezza is having success because he's up against weak competition.

I don't buy that "getting adjustment theory at all". We're past the 1/2 mark of the season now, he should be well adjusted. I would've bought that adjustment tale a few months ago, but not now. It's become an exuse. He's going through a slump- it happens to everyone. Just don't try and pin it on a the switch to the AHL. Again, you think over half a season would be enough time to adjust to a lesser-calibre league......

P.S- Suggestion noted, I have used the preview button this time.

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01-23-2005, 05:57 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Christ
Matt Stajan is a good two-way player in the NHL whose NHL career potential at absolute best is a second line center. Spezza is a gifted offensive player whose career potential in the NHL is a first line center and a perrenial all-star. In the NHL I would not be surprised to see Spezza top 90 points a season in his prime, Stajan on the other hand will probably be closer to 50. What makes you think that Stajan's AHL production should be compared to Spezza's?
I agree, if we're going to compare players... then these 3 are all apart of Northeast division teams, are about the same age and have similar upsides:

Stajan (C/LW) 21 yo
Vermette (C/LW) 22 yo
Higgins (C/LW) 21 yo

Could make for an interesting debate considering the variety of roles all 3 can and have been filling in different levels of play.

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01-23-2005, 06:58 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Man.Utd
I don't buy that "getting adjustment theory at all". We're past the 1/2 mark of the season now, he should be well adjusted. I would've bought that adjustment tale a few months ago, but not now. It's become an exuse. He's going through a slump- it happens to everyone. Just don't try and pin it on a the switch to the AHL. Again, you think over half a season would be enough time to adjust to a lesser-calibre league......
Thankfully Stajan's play has improved dramatically of late, at least as far as offense goes. Since he has been playing on the first line he has had six points in the past four games (4 goals, 2 assists) and he has been a +6 over that same period.

I was not trying to use Stajan's slower then expected adjustment to the AHL as a crutch or anything like that. I was trying to point out that Spezza had already had experience in the AHL while Stajan has not. For this reason, I was making the case that Spezza start out more at home in the AHL then Stajan would. Stajan after all would be totally unfamiliar with both AHL hockey and the AHL lifestyle.

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01-23-2005, 08:23 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Frankie
amazing how things can be spun to suit our purposes.

when a non-leaf does well, all of a sudden the opposition becomes the important factor.

according to this, shouldn't steen be tearing up the swedish league? there are at least 6 other forwards on his team that the opposition would pay more attention to.

funny how in spezza's case, its lack of top quality opposition that allows him to score so much. but in steen's case, its lack of top quality linemates that prevents him from scoring much.
What the hell are you talking about?

I'm talking about the NHL.

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01-23-2005, 08:28 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Man.Utd
Well then why all the excitement over Matt Stajan? He's played horrible in the AHL by the standards of a supposed "NHL" quality player. Meanwhile, Spezza has trived. He leads the league in assists and points despite a slow start and is the most keyed guy in the league. He was keyed on in all of Junior aswell being the CHL's primere player and still posted amazing numbers. He knows how to play with a bulls-eye on his back. Assuming he keeps working at the weaker aspects of his game (which he's been doing, playing on the PK in Binghamton and working on his sakting as evident on his second goal last night) he'll be fine. And talk about a double-standard regarding the two player's in the NHL:
Why are we bringing Stajan into it now??

This is a real reach.

We are talking about Spezza, and Mats Sundin...a comparison I find as amusing as you guys find Wellwood and Spezza to be.

There is no conflict. Totally different types of players.

Spezza is expected to be a superstar. Stajan is not a dominant player. His NHL performance was more surprising than anything Spezza does, so that is where "the excitement" comes from.

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01-23-2005, 08:54 PM
  #56
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That still doesn't change the fact Stajan is "excelling with little ice-time" but Spezza is "benefitting from weak competition". Different expectations or not, you can't have it both ways.

FTR, I don't think Spezza is better or even equal to Sundin at this stage of his career. But the fact he scored as much as he did this past season (ES) speaks volumes about his potential.

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01-23-2005, 08:59 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Man.Utd
That still doesn't change the fact Stajan is "excelling with little ice-time" but Spezza is "benefitting from weak competition". Different expectations or not, you can't have it both ways.

FTR, I don't think Spezza is better or even equal to Sundin at this stage of his career. But the fact he scored as much as he did this past season (ES) speaks volumes about his potential.
Which takes us full circle to the innocent comment of Wellwood and Spezza had the same amount of goals 18 in the AHL before last nights game .. Who said anything else other than if you go to the AHL web site and look as the top point getters you will notice that they had the same and now are one apart ..


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01-23-2005, 09:16 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by The Messenger
Which takes us full circle to the innocent comment of Wellwood and Spezza had the same amount of goals 18 in the AHL before last nights game .. Who said anything else other than if you go to the AHL web site and look as the top point getters you will notice that they had the same and now are one apart ..
Spezza netted 2 more goals tonight along with 2 helpers against the Hersey Bears. I see what you're saying though, even if the point gap is pretty fair, the fact he's finding the back of the net at almost the same rate as Spezza is impressive.

However, the Spezza/Sundin and Spezza/Wellwood scoring comparisons are a bit different considering the latter is comparing a proven NHL'er who has no huge question mark beside his name to an AHL'er who has yet to play in the bigs and may or may not overcome his size/skating.

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01-23-2005, 09:30 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Man.Utd
Spezza netted 2 more goals tonight along with 2 helpers against the Hersey Bears. I see what you're saying though, even if the point gap is pretty fair, the fact he's finding the back of the net at almost the same rate as Spezza is impressive.

However, the Spezza/Sundin and Spezza/Wellwood scoring comparisons are a bit different considering the latter is comparing a proven NHL'er who has no huge question mark beside his name to an AHL'er who has yet to play in the bigs and may or may not overcome his size/skating.
People read too much into things sometimes ...

If it looks like a DUCK and quacks like a DUCK perhaps it is only a DUCK !!!

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01-24-2005, 08:31 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by PepNCheese
What the hell are you talking about?

I'm talking about the NHL.
you know exactly what i'm talking about. the league you're talking about makes no difference.

the principle is the same. why wouldn't the same principle work for steen in the sel? opposition isn't focussing on him.

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