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Ryan Kesler

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Old
02-19-2010, 12:06 AM
  #1
alexanderovechkin8
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Ryan Kesler

I am just wondering would it be the same as Jordan Staal's?
Or would it be something around there?
They both play a similar game and are 2nd liners, yes Jordan Staal is a 2nd liner and can possibly one day be 1st liners

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Old
02-19-2010, 12:13 AM
  #2
Canucks5551
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Kesler is more valuable than Staal. He has 5 more points so far this season than Staal has ever had.

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Old
02-19-2010, 12:30 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexanderovechkin8 View Post
I am just wondering would it be the same as Jordan Staal's?
Or would it be something around there?
They both play a similar game and are 2nd liners, yes Jordan Staal is a 2nd liner and can possibly one day be 1st liners
Staal's a third liner

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Old
02-19-2010, 01:04 AM
  #4
chopkins
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Originally Posted by kickaction View Post
Staal's a third liner
Malkin's a second liner.

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Old
02-19-2010, 01:15 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canucks5551 View Post
Kesler is more valuable than Staal. He has 5 more points so far this season than Staal has ever had.
Oh yes, points, the ol' HF standard.

So, let's play.

Staal had more goals as an 18 year old than Kesler's career high.

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Old
02-19-2010, 01:18 AM
  #6
Ched Brosky
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Originally Posted by The Old Recipe View Post
Oh yes, points, the ol' HF standard.

So, let's play.

Staal had more goals as an 18 year old than Kesler's career high.
Staal had more goals as an 18 year old than he has compared to his career not including his rookie year.

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Old
02-19-2010, 01:20 AM
  #7
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Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
Staal had more goals as an 18 year old than he has compared to his career not including his rookie year.
That makes no sense. Year 1- 29, 2- 12, 3-22?? 12 + 22= 34? 34> 29


Staal's career PPG: .514
Kesler's career PPG: .509

Staal's career high in goals > Kesler's career high in goals.
Staal's career PPG > Kesler's career PPG

Very simply, if Staal chooses to play an offensive game, he's better than Kesler.
He's a superior defensive player than Kesler, and that's not even close
And, all the while, putting up better numbers each game


Now that we've settled that, continue with the Kesler discussion


Last edited by The Old Recipe: 02-19-2010 at 01:27 AM.
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Old
02-19-2010, 01:50 AM
  #8
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Originally Posted by The Old Recipe View Post
Oh yes, points, the ol' HF standard.

So, let's play.

Staal had more goals as an 18 year old than Kesler's career high.
nice

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Old
02-19-2010, 02:51 AM
  #9
Andy Dufresne
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Originally Posted by The Old Recipe View Post
He's a superior defensive player than Kesler, and that's not even close

Talk about making no sense. I guess you know better than everyone else though. Let me guess, you figured that out by looking at a stat line that you found somewhere on the net?

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Old
02-19-2010, 03:00 AM
  #10
Captain Hook
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Kesler's also 4 years older than Staal so it's not an apples to apples comparison either. Kesler only had 16 points in 48 games in the NHL when he was 22 (Staal's current age). He had 37 points in 82 games in the NHL when he was 23 (A year older than Staal's current age).

I do think his value is similar to Jordan Staal. Only an overpayment would pry him away from Vancouver and I don't see the overpayment happening so he'll stay in Vancouver.

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Old
02-19-2010, 03:04 AM
  #11
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Staal is also currently locked to a decent 4 mil cap deal until 2013.. Kesler will prolly look for 4-5 mil during offseason.

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Old
02-19-2010, 03:14 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kickaction View Post
Staal's a third liner
Guess what Kesler would be in Pittsburgh?

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Old
02-19-2010, 03:24 AM
  #13
Askel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Guess what Kesler would be in Pittsburgh?
Playing on Sids RW probably so a first liner.

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Old
02-19-2010, 03:30 AM
  #14
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Any thread started by the OP just ****in trainwrecks it seems.

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Old
02-19-2010, 03:38 AM
  #15
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Any thread started by the OP just ****in trainwrecks it seems.
Correction: Any thread involving Jordan Staal trainwrecks.

I can't believe I don't skip by these by now...

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Old
02-19-2010, 03:46 AM
  #16
chopkins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Recipe View Post
That makes no sense. Year 1- 29, 2- 12, 3-22?? 12 + 22= 34? 34> 29


Staal's career PPG: .514
Kesler's career PPG: .509

Staal's career high in goals > Kesler's career high in goals.
Staal's career PPG > Kesler's career PPG

Very simply, if Staal chooses to play an offensive game, he's better than Kesler.
He's a superior defensive player than Kesler, and that's not even close
And, all the while, putting up better numbers each game


Now that we've settled that, continue with the Kesler discussion
So if Staal is better offensively and much better defensively, why is Kesler the one with the Selke nomination under his belt?

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Old
02-19-2010, 06:06 AM
  #17
Captain Hook
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Askel View Post
Playing on Sids RW probably so a first liner.
Predictable response. That's your opinion. I don't see it that way, though. Kesler is a top 6 forward, but I think he'd be the shutdown center on the 3rd line in Pittsburgh just like Staal is now. Kesler's defense makes him much more valuable at center, imo. Same as Staal in that regard. Yes, Kesler could play wing, but I think he impacts the game more at center.

Anyway, In every Jordan Staal thread there's some clueless idiot that almost never watches him play that claims he's just a 3rd liner. Jordan Staal is a top 6 caliber forward. The people that don't watch him play and just go by the depth chart are clueless. Staal gets around 20+ goals and 50 points and that's easily top 6 forward material. He plays the 3rd line because he impacts the game more at center. Pens need Crosby at center for faceoffs etc. Malkin looks lost when he plays the wing so he has to play center. Pens need Staal at center for his defense. Staal at center also gives the Pens 3 good lines, not just 2. None of these things have anything to do with him not being a top 6 forward. He's a top 6 forward, but the team is better/deeper with him on the 3rd line. I think Kesler would play the same role if he played in Pittsburgh, but that's just my opinion.

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Old
02-19-2010, 07:36 AM
  #18
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Dallas' 1st in '10 and Niskanen! Our centers would be Ribeiro/Richards/Kesler......

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Old
02-19-2010, 07:45 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexanderovechkin8 View Post
I am just wondering would it be the same as Jordan Staal's?
Or would it be something around there?
They both play a similar game and are 2nd liners, yes Jordan Staal is a 2nd liner and can possibly one day be 1st liners
this thread is about as stupid as the idea of blowing the team up. which is about as stupid as the entire montreal canadians organization.

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Old
02-19-2010, 07:50 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by NorthVanCanuck View Post
So if Staal is better offensively and much better defensively, why is Kesler the one with the Selke nomination under his belt?
Because he doesn't have two of the best center's in the NHL ahead of him in the depth chart. Keep in mind Staal's linemates are consistently Cooke and Kennedy.

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Old
02-19-2010, 08:03 AM
  #21
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Who cares?

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Old
02-19-2010, 08:39 AM
  #22
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The biggest difference between these two players right now is PP performance. Kesler has 22 PP points and averages about 2:59 of PP time per game. Staal, on the other hand, has just 2 PP points, but only averages about 1:54 of PP time per game.

Staal is actually outproducing Kesler right now at even strength and has a much better plus/minus, but a worse faceoff percentage. I'm not exactly sure how the two compare in terms of quality of competition, but I'm guessing they're probably pretty similar.

Overall, the two are pretty similar IMO. A Staal-Kesler swap, at least on paper, would be a fairly lateral move for both teams, which is exactly why it would never happen.

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Old
02-19-2010, 08:59 AM
  #23
NFITO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexanderovechkin8 View Post
I am just wondering would it be the same as Jordan Staal's?
Or would it be something around there?
They both play a similar game and are 2nd liners, yes Jordan Staal is a 2nd liner and can possibly one day be 1st liners
the way you're looking at player values is only relevant in EA sport or fantasy hockey.

In the real world, a players' value isn't based on what you can measure on paper, but the biggest impact on any player's value is the value they have to their respective teams.

While Staal and Kesler are similar players and could be argued their values are the same on paper, in reality, Kesler is the #2 center on a team who's center depth is crap and he's a key player on his team because of that. The Pens, having both Crosby and Malkin in their lineup, can easily afford to move Staal much more easily than the Canucks can, who would then have Wellwood as their #2 guy if they moved Kesler.

That's where Kesler's value comes in for the Canucks. He was the team's MVP a year ago for a reason too... he plays a vital role on the team that no one can replace, while having no depth behind him that can even begin to replace any of his minutes.

For that reason alone, it would take a lot more for Vancouver to move Kesler than it would for Pittsburgh to move Staal.

Having said that, you take team needs and impact out of the picture, and look at them just solely based on individual talent, contract and on-ice impact, and I'd say that Staal has more value than Kesler does. He's younger, produced at a higher rater at the same stages in their careers, already had a bigger playoff impact at an earlier age, and is already locked up to a longterm contract, whereas Kesler is a RFA and could get a big raise that pays him more than Staal is making right now.

Given all that, if the team is not a factor at all, I'd think that a buyer would give up more to acquire Staal than Kesler... however in reality, not in fantasy hockey, Kesler is just a huge part of a team that has no depth down the middle and as such is a vital part of the franchise both short-term and long-term and would therefore require a much bigger overpayment to get than a player playing the same position on a team behind Crosby and Malkin.

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Old
02-19-2010, 09:35 AM
  #24
slapshots1515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Askel View Post
Playing on Sids RW probably so a first liner.
why would it make any sense to put Kesler, a shutdown defender, on Crosby's wing? Now that's not to say that Kesler's not a borderline 1st line center on some teams, cause I believe he is. He's just not a first liner on the Pens-he's far more valuable as a center, and relatively useless (or at least wasting his talents) as a wing to Crosby or Malkin. Therefore, to the Pens he's a third liner. Possibly the best third-liner in the league, but still a third-liner.

Basically the way I see this:
Defensively: Kesler>Staal (You're kidding yourself if you can't admit this Pens fans)
Offensively: Kesler<Staal (Most people would agree with this)
Potential: Staal>Kesler (But the gap isn't as wide as some people like to think)

Therefore-it's pretty lateral. If I'm a team looking for a potential no. 1 center to spark my offense, I go with Staal. If I'm a team looking for an absolutely lockdown defender to counter the other teams' scorers, I go with Kesler. If I'm Vancouver or Pittsburgh, I don't trade either one (barring massive overpayment of course).

BTW-If Kesler seeks and gets a 4-5 mil deal (as a previous poster said), his cap hit will be virtually the same as Staal's.

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Old
02-19-2010, 09:48 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Recipe View Post
That makes no sense. Year 1- 29, 2- 12, 3-22?? 12 + 22= 34? 34> 29


Staal's career PPG: .514
Kesler's career PPG: .509

Staal's career high in goals > Kesler's career high in goals.
Staal's career PPG > Kesler's career PPG

Very simply, if Staal chooses to play an offensive game, he's better than Kesler.
He's a superior defensive player than Kesler, and that's not even close
And, all the while, putting up better numbers each game


Now that we've settled that, continue with the Kesler discussion
Come on guys they both are pretty darn good players, why do we need any comparison here (speaking of stats, there are other tangibles that shoudl be taken into consideration).

Both young and upcoming stars.

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