HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Rink
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Rink For the not so ready for prime-time players, coaches, referees, and the people that have to live with them. Discuss experiences in local leagues, coaching tips, equipment, and training.

Gap Control - Defending Against Fast Forwards

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-18-2010, 12:04 PM
  #1
TheSandman
Registered User
 
TheSandman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Jose
Posts: 1,184
vCash: 500
Gap Control - Defending Against Fast Forwards

So I play defense in a beer league, never had serious coaching or been to camps etc, although I have been playing for a long time. Since my biggest weakness is lack of footspeed, gap control becomes very important when defending against some of the faster forwards out there.

Any tips when it comes to gap control? Perhaps those of you who have had coaching on defense, or have been playing for a while can enlighten me. The concept is simple enough, but I'm just wondering if there are fundamental concepts that are taught to defenders, rules of thumb, etc.

I'm pretty good defending against 1v1s and 2v1s, but once in a while I find myself giving a fast forward too much room to move in. And yes, I can skate forwards and backwards well, I'm strong on my skates, just not quick.

TheSandman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2010, 12:38 PM
  #2
Jarick
Moderator
Doing Nothing
 
Jarick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St Paul, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 24,397
vCash: 500
This is my biggest weakness. I watched a lot of guys in the higher levels of my league and here's what I see them do:

Build up some speed skating forwards ahead of the player, then turn with plenty of gap (north-south) in the middle of the ice, kind of forcing the player to pick a side. Then when the player cuts to the outside, turn again and skate as hard as you can forwards to try and force the player into the boards.

The idea is to take away the middle of the ice and then limit their ability to cut straight towards the net. When I do this, the faster player can beat me, but by that time he's almost below the goal line and has no angle for a shot, and my goalie stops the puck 100% of the time (so far, fingers crossed!).

Jarick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2010, 03:26 PM
  #3
Hockeyfan68
Registered User
 
Hockeyfan68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lewiston, ME USA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,418
vCash: 500
Well I am not quick like I used to be and switched from forward to defense. This is because of age as I am 41 and play with 20 to 30 year olds for the most part.

I use gap control as a life saver really and for me it is making sure while skating backwards you are going as fast as the forwards. I see a lot of people just skating too slow backwards and it makes it hard to get that gap control you need because you are flat footed.

I'm certainly no expert on defense and after playing defense for the last year or so am still learning all the time.

I played forward for about 35 years and do that well, this defense thing is much harder than it looks but it allows me to use wisdom and smart puck play instead of youthful skating.

Good luck on your quest for foot speed ... I have been practicing scissor cuts on the outside edges skating backwards when I have ice to do it on and it really has helped. I think practicing your skating with things like that would benefit you more than asking in a thread about what you could do differently as far as actually playing defense.

I thought I was a pretty good skater until I played defense and realized there was a whole 'nuther area of skating I ignored for too many years because I played as a winger.

Your problem will be solved with better skating because since I have worked on it my game has gotten tons better in a short period of time playing defense.

Hockeyfan68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-18-2010, 03:33 PM
  #4
TheSandman
Registered User
 
TheSandman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Jose
Posts: 1,184
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyfan68 View Post
Well I am not quick like I used to be and switched from forward to defense. This is because of age as I am 41 and play with 20 to 30 year olds for the most part.

I use gap control as a life saver really and for me it is making sure while skating backwards you are going as fast as the forwards. I see a lot of people just skating too slow backwards and it makes it hard to get that gap control you need because you are flat footed.

I'm certainly no expert on defense and after playing defense for the last year or so am still learning all the time.

I played forward for about 35 years and do that well, this defense thing is much harder than it looks but it allows me to use wisdom and smart puck play instead of youthful skating.

Good luck on your quest for foot speed ... I have been practicing scissor cuts on the outside edges skating backwards when I have ice to do it on and it really has helped. I think practicing your skating with things like that would benefit you more than asking in a thread about what you could do differently as far as actually playing defense.

I thought I was a pretty good skater until I played defense and realized there was a whole 'nuther area of skating I ignored for too many years because I played as a winger.

Your problem will be solved with better skating because since I have worked on it my game has gotten tons better in a short period of time playing defense.
Yea, that's totally true. I would love to get more ice time, but rink time and lessons are pricey, and here in Cali the only time we have ice outdoors is if it's in our Cokes.

The problem is I don't have time/money to go out and practice that often. So I do what I can, when I can. What I have gotten good at though is watching what pros do and/or asking people how they do things and then go out and apply that in the limited time I have.

I'd love to take private hockey skating lessons though, that would make a big difference.

TheSandman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 01:42 PM
  #5
Skating Tripods
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 304
vCash: 500
Keep enough gap control to force them wide, but be able to pokecheck the puck away if they cut inside. I play pickup with a couple college players and some guys who made it to the ECHL, and I've noticed that they're mostly content to go wide and aim far corner.

Try to think of it in stick lengths. At the blue line, you want to be no more than 2.5 stick lengths apart. This way, you have enough time to react if they cut. Like I said, though, if you shade to the inside and make them go outside, they probably won't try to cut under to the net. They start to run out of room and then have to force a shot wide-side, and if they miss the net, it starts an odd-man rush the other way.

If you want, against the better players, grab the stick lower on the handle and camouflage how long it actually is. Then, if they make the cut, you can pokecheck the same way goalies do by sliding the stick down.

I'm slow of foot too. I didn't start skating til I was 14, and then wound up spending most of my HS years on the JV team. I was a forward then, and I play D now. I'm 23, so I've gotten much better, but never did any clinics or skating classes or any of those things.


Since the topic has shifted to skating backwards, try backing out of the offensive zone a little bit quicker. That way, you have time to compensate for the rush. I know you want to hold the blue line, but preventing a 2 or 3 on 1 is more important.

Skating Tripods is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-19-2010, 02:31 PM
  #6
rinkrat22
Registered User
 
rinkrat22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 577
vCash: 500
I personally wouldnt be more than the length of your stick from the attacking player at your blue line. if you are defending a rush. when backing out of the offensive zone your first move should be to get inside the dots. then if you can try and line up your outside shoulder on their inside shoulder. even if you are slow footed get some momentum and watch the puck carriers chest. the second that they see you look at the puck thats when they will dangle you. Keep your stick on their stick. (meaning if possible you keep your stick blade on their stick blade, blocking their ability to shoot or pass). force them to put the puck in an area, hopefully your teammates win the race for the lose puck.

rinkrat22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2010, 02:45 AM
  #7
Baggy Spandex
Boat movie.
 
Baggy Spandex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Fake Rangerfanville
Country: United States
Posts: 3,800
vCash: 500
One of the best pieces of advice I've read on this board is if the puck carrier has a slight step on you, meet him at the post. Be sure not to screen the goalie too much though. Works very well for me. If they do get a step on me, it drives them a bit wider down low, most likely forcing a slot pass or a drive around the back.

Baggy Spandex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2010, 03:58 AM
  #8
Hades
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Country: Australia
Posts: 1,374
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggy Spandex View Post
One of the best pieces of advice I've read on this board is if the puck carrier has a slight step on you, meet him at the post. Be sure not to screen the goalie too much though. Works very well for me. If they do get a step on me, it drives them a bit wider down low, most likely forcing a slot pass or a drive around the back.
I do this in NHL 10 . When it's clear you can't catch them, you know where he's going, just meet him there.

Hades is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2010, 04:19 AM
  #9
Hockeyfan68
Registered User
 
Hockeyfan68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lewiston, ME USA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,418
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rinkrat22 View Post
I personally wouldnt be more than the length of your stick from the attacking player at your blue line. if you are defending a rush. when backing out of the offensive zone your first move should be to get inside the dots. then if you can try and line up your outside shoulder on their inside shoulder. even if you are slow footed get some momentum and watch the puck carriers chest. the second that they see you look at the puck thats when they will dangle you. Keep your stick on their stick. (meaning if possible you keep your stick blade on their stick blade, blocking their ability to shoot or pass). force them to put the puck in an area, hopefully your teammates win the race for the lose puck.
That is what I do as well, more than one stick length and you are just giving up too much space to allow passing lanes once they have gained the zone because you played back too far to begin with.

I try to stand someone up at the blueline, playing noncontact is not easy but I play the body anyway without checking. They can't skate through you.

I watch the hips mainly as one cannot go anywhere except the direction they have those turned. It is a tough job to play defense and when you get burned you need to shake it off quickly and remember what you did wrong but forget it at the same time and move on. Once I learned I cannot stop everything and getting beaten sometimes is a part of the game it allowed me to relax and play smarter.

Hockeyfan68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2010, 06:34 AM
  #10
cptjeff
[insert joke here]
 
cptjeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Washington, DC.
Country: United States
Posts: 8,757
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSandman View Post
Yea, that's totally true. I would love to get more ice time, but rink time and lessons are pricey, and here in Cali the only time we have ice outdoors is if it's in our Cokes.

The problem is I don't have time/money to go out and practice that often. So I do what I can, when I can. What I have gotten good at though is watching what pros do and/or asking people how they do things and then go out and apply that in the limited time I have.

I'd love to take private hockey skating lessons though, that would make a big difference.
Just go out to a public skate and practice you're skating. Depending on the rink, 5-8 bucks for 2-3 hours of skating. Or a stick and puck- not pickup, which is an unorganized practice. Price should be similar to an open skate.

You don't have to rent the ice for working on your skating.

cptjeff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2010, 09:38 AM
  #11
rinkrat22
Registered User
 
rinkrat22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 577
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyfan68 View Post
That is what I do as well, more than one stick length and you are just giving up too much space to allow passing lanes once they have gained the zone because you played back too far to begin with.

I try to stand someone up at the blueline, playing noncontact is not easy but I play the body anyway without checking. They can't skate through you.
I watch the hips mainly as one cannot go anywhere except the direction they have those turned. It is a tough job to play defense and when you get burned you need to shake it off quickly and remember what you did wrong but forget it at the same time and move on. Once I learned I cannot stop everything and getting beaten sometimes is a part of the game it allowed me to relax and play smarter.
another good point, you can stand someone up without checking them, just kind of ride them out of the play. You better control the gap well though if you try that otherwise you will be in a foot race back to your net.

rinkrat22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2010, 02:08 PM
  #12
Steelhead16
Registered User
 
Steelhead16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Boise, ID
Country: United States
Posts: 1,560
vCash: 500
You obviously want to cheat to the inside and make someone go around the outside. In one one one or two on two where you just have one guy to worry about try and line your outside shoulder up with the opponents inside shoulder. Another thing I can suggest is not to give away your reach. What I mean is don't skate with your stick extended in front of you going backwards. Make the opponent think there is more room than there really is. More times than not they will skate closer to you than they really want to and you can throw a poke or sweep check at that point. Same with your stick to the side. Skate backwards with your stick in front of you and across your body. Point the blade to about a 1:00 position (blade of the stick about even with your opposite shoulder) but keep your top hand elbow at your hip. You should find that you suck people into a trap that they don't know is there and you will have your stick in a good position to sweep check to your outside or poke check forwards.
The idea behind this is that you control the gap size instead of adjusting to what the forward gives you.
Hope that helps. Good luck!!!

Steelhead16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-20-2010, 04:42 PM
  #13
EmptyNetter
Registered User
 
EmptyNetter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: North Shore, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 7,541
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggy Spandex View Post
One of the best pieces of advice I've read on this board is if the puck carrier has a slight step on you, meet him at the post. Be sure not to screen the goalie too much though. Works very well for me. If they do get a step on me, it drives them a bit wider down low, most likely forcing a slot pass or a drive around the back.
Excellent advice. One thing I'd add -- don't be afraid to let the puck carrier take a shot. Prevent him from getting a quality shot. Make sure he can't skate parallel to the goal mouth and force the goalie to move laterally. Also, make double sure there's not an open trailer -- if there is you've got to let the goalie cover the shot and you cover the open man.

EmptyNetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2010, 12:18 AM
  #14
WDR357
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Boston Area
Country: United States
Posts: 57
vCash: 500
1. Be able to skate backwards as fast as you can forwards. Just get lower and make sure you're using full extension. I always practice getting lower and faster for backwards skating. Quicker feet develop from practice. You can probably move a lot faster than you think.

2. As mentioned before, don't always have full extension with your stick. Disguise where the danger area is for the puck carrier.

3. Stick length away from your man.

4. As mentioned, if you have help behind you, try and stop the puck carrier at the blue line.

5. Let him skate into the corners or to your three o-clock position once he's deep in the zone. If he scores from there, it isn't your fault.

6. You have the trailer, the goalie has the shooter.

WDR357 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2010, 12:31 PM
  #15
TheSandman
Registered User
 
TheSandman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Jose
Posts: 1,184
vCash: 500
A lot of good advice here. I'll see how much I can apply at my game tonight.

I think a big part of it is confidence too. Being one of the slower guys, you always question yourself out there as far as gap control, beating forwards out to loose pucks, etc. I've learned that sometimes you just have to man up and go for it, even if you get burned once in a while.

The physicality/standing people up issue is a good one too. I try to play as physical as I can in a non-check league. Unfortunately since I'm bigger than a lot of guys, even when people run into me and fall over I get called for interference 20-30% of the time. Doesn't stop me from doing my best Hal Gill impression though

TheSandman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2010, 12:41 PM
  #16
Jarick
Moderator
Doing Nothing
 
Jarick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St Paul, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 24,397
vCash: 500
See that's where being 5'8 and steady on your skates helps...I've got 10 PIM's in probably 85+ games.

Jarick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2010, 08:46 PM
  #17
Reverend Mayhem
Registered User
 
Reverend Mayhem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Port Coquitlam, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,798
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to Reverend Mayhem
This thread will be a big help to me our season starts in a couple months, I'm not that graceful of a skater, not that big either Im 5 foot 8, so I'm usually the fast forward!

But yeah, do your best to force the attacker to go to the outside because it makes him harder to beat you cause he'll have not much room to work with, and when he tries to beat you by going around you, just turn 180 and stick check the hell out of him anything to make him overskate the puck is good too.

Reverend Mayhem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2010, 05:36 PM
  #18
canuck44
 
canuck44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 221
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmptyNetter View Post
Excellent advice. One thing I'd add -- don't be afraid to let the puck carrier take a shot. Prevent him from getting a quality shot. Make sure he can't skate parallel to the goal mouth and force the goalie to move laterally.

It's practically impossible as a D backing up to prevent a guy from cutting across the ice laterally. That's where the backchecking forward is supposed to come into play. I played D my whole life, and that's one thing I used to chew out our forwards about. But at the same time, if you're a forward and you have nobody coming up behind you, you should definitely take advantage of that opportunity and cut across.

canuck44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2010, 06:54 PM
  #19
rinkrat22
Registered User
 
rinkrat22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 577
vCash: 500
backchecking in beer league... that would be great if someone did that

rinkrat22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2010, 06:58 PM
  #20
canuck44
 
canuck44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 221
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rinkrat22 View Post
backchecking in beer league... that would be great if someone did that
Okay I've never played in a beer league so I probably sounded pretty dumb there lol. I just play pick up now and it's pretty fast paced and half decent players that actually make somewhat of an effort to come back. I personally treat playing hockey like a workout at the same time so I backcheck if i'm playing up

canuck44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2010, 08:56 PM
  #21
rinkrat22
Registered User
 
rinkrat22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 577
vCash: 500
I try playing both ends fore and backchecking, but alot of the guys I play with dont. Thats why I hate playing D in beer league. we have a bunch of ******** that want to score on breakaways.

rinkrat22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2010, 02:31 AM
  #22
canuck44
 
canuck44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 221
vCash: 500
I know this isn't the most useful advice in this situation, but JUST SKATE FASTER

canuck44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2010, 07:46 PM
  #23
vladdy16
Registered User
 
vladdy16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,389
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSandman View Post
So I play defense in a beer league, never had serious coaching or been to camps etc, although I have been playing for a long time. Since my biggest weakness is lack of footspeed, gap control becomes very important when defending against some of the faster forwards out there.

Any tips when it comes to gap control? Perhaps those of you who have had coaching on defense, or have been playing for a while can enlighten me. The concept is simple enough, but I'm just wondering if there are fundamental concepts that are taught to defenders, rules of thumb, etc.

I'm pretty good defending against 1v1s and 2v1s, but once in a while I find myself giving a fast forward too much room to move in. And yes, I can skate forwards and backwards well, I'm strong on my skates, just not quick.
It's all in your mind, if you are starting in position, speed should be a non factor. As a defensemen you don't have to initiate anything, let the forward come to you. Once your gap is established, stay balanced and calm, keep your eyes on his chest, you should be in a position where if he cuts inside you will step right into him, and if he cuts outside you just stay with him until he runs out of room.

Don't set up a poke check, it is your last resort, and as a last resort it ALWAYS should work. In other words if you are thinking of knocking the puck of his stick at any point, you will get burned, but if you are staying in proper position, there is no move that he will be able to make that won't be canceled by a reactionary poke check.(disguising your reach isn't a bad habit to start. Keep your top hand elbow tucked a little closer to your body so the forward thinks he has more room than he does)

Balance is your main concern. Bend your knees and make sure you don't lean forward, your shoulders should never feel farther out than your knees, and your butt should feel kind of like it's sitting on a plane connected to your heels, ready to spring at contact. Your free hand should be about shoulder high, and you should be able to jab without throwing your body alignment/reaching. You'll feel it in your thighs when you've found your perfect balance. At that point you will be able to adjust your gap 360 degrees.

Setting up your gap through the neutral zone is probably the hardest part, and where foot speed will play a factor, you just have to know your speed and judge his. The second the puck leaves the offensive zone you should be sizing up the situation, focus on the forwards angles and leans, tap into him/track him with your eyes, while keeping your ideal gap commencement in the back of your mind. Stay fluid in your feet, hips and mind, know you have the advantage and relish the trap you are setting. Give enough room that he won't beat you outside before the red line, but make sure that his decisive move will come no later than a little inside the blue line.

vladdy16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2010, 02:19 PM
  #24
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,990
vCash: 500
To the OP:

If you have good anticipation skills, you will need to be ultra-aggressive. I'm in your boat with the slow feet, so I have to outsmart people that can outskate me (which is most people ). Luckily, I've learned to cheat. Break-outs are usually pretty easy to read, so just stay really right, and step up early. It's pretty tough to beat you if their standing still when you catch them by surprise!

If you don't have good anticipation... I hate to say it, but you should just move up to the wing Slow and stupid is a bad combo on defense


Quote:
Originally Posted by vladdy16 View Post
It's all in your mind, if you are starting in position, speed should be a non factor. As a defensemen you don't have to initiate anything, let the forward come to you. Once your gap is established, stay balanced and calm, keep your eyes on his chest, you should be in a position where if he cuts inside you will step right into him, and if he cuts outside you just stay with him until he runs out of room.
Excellent point!

The defenseman doesn't have to do anything other than keep his angle. Keeping a tight gap is great, but without the right angle, it's pointless. As long as you stay between him and the net, he can't beat you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vladdy16 View Post
Don't set up a poke check, it is your last resort, and as a last resort it ALWAYS should work. In other words if you are thinking of knocking the puck of his stick at any point, you will get burned, but if you are staying in proper position, there is no move that he will be able to make that won't be canceled by a reactionary poke check.(disguising your reach isn't a bad habit to start. Keep your top hand elbow tucked a little closer to your body so the forward thinks he has more room than he does).
Not sure I'm with you on this one. Why wouldn't you you use your stick to full advantage? I'm not talking big sweep checks or lunging pokechecks.... just a flick of that wrist and toss that stick out a little bit.

Throw that stick out a few times. You don't need to look at the puck, and you don't even need to aim at the puck. Forwards will see that pokecheck coming and make a move to avoid it. You could make a the check, which is great. Even if you miss the check, you could cause him to fumble the puck, which is great. Even if he didn't fumble it, he has to slow down as well as look down, which is great.

The vast majority of players cannot play under pressure - they panic easilty. Even a feigned pokecheck throws some people right off. Even if it only works 1 in 10 times, there's no downside.

Dreakmur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2010, 04:30 PM
  #25
Steelhead16
Registered User
 
Steelhead16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Boise, ID
Country: United States
Posts: 1,560
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
To the Op

Excellent point!

The defenseman doesn't have to do anything other than keep his angle. Keeping a tight gap is great, but without the right angle, it's pointless. As long as you stay between him and the net, he can't beat you.


The vast majority of players cannot play under pressure - they panic easilty. Even a feigned pokecheck throws some people right off. Even if it only works 1 in 10 times, there's no downside.

You contradict yourself on these two points. And if you are slow of foot your second point is correct. And if you are fleet of foot your second point is also correct.

If you want to be a more productive defenseman, play it offensively. Make the puck carrier do what you want him to do and you won't get caught guessing. Especially in lower skilled leagues. Take away what the puck carrier wants to do and force him to do what he doesn't want to do. In most cases that will be forcing them to their backhand. The puck carrier is coming down the ice with 4 or 5 options and waiting for what he is going to do is going to let them pick their best option. Take the best options away and improve your odds on making a good play. You are correct that players panic, but most of them only if you make them panic. Skating backwards and watching them will not make them panic. At the blue line make them do something!!!

Steelhead16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:20 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.