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Vokoun will be a BlackHawk !

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Old
02-21-2010, 11:34 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by BabyJagrov View Post
Man you must be kidding... Leading his league in goals with 46 in 59 games... On a middle-of-the-pack offense in the WHL ? While spending 160 in the penalty box ? Posting a +17 and being a beast on the PP ?

He is a right-handed shot, a force of nature... A ppg-player in the WHL, scoring goals and assisting on them at the same pace...

He has something like 10 goals in his last 6 games without recording a single PIM...

Nothing to brag about ? ... When you'll lead your league in scoring while being the only major offensive threat on your team, you'll call me ! To me it is quite an accomplishment... I remember Pavel Bure doing that in the NHL... Rick Nash also...

I wouldn't pass on a potential first-liner like Kyle Beach... Even for Versteeg... Versteeg hasn't been anything more than a 20 goal-scorer his whole career... I want GAME-BREAKING players, no more fill-ins and we'll do it by committee thing !

If the owners are true to their words, that's the path they should take... High-risk/high-reward impact players !!!
Middle of the pack offense? Idk, but Spokane is a very good team. 8/22 teams. They have Levko Koper, Mitch Wahl, and Jared Cowen as well, no shortage of talent on that team. It's not like he's doing it by himself. And he's certainly not the only major offensive threat. He has 46 goals....as a 19 yr. old, 4th year player. And he's a big power forward in the WHL, that production might not come as easily in the NHL. Check out his numbers for the last 3 years. His production has basically plateaued since his 16 yr. old year. He's on pace to finish with about only 20 more points than what he finished with 3 years ago. That's not good. And he's been on good teams. 73 pts. at this point for him is not that good.

That 160 PIM isn't necessarily a good thing. He takes a lot of stupid penalties and is very short-fused/undisciplined. He has some nice talent yes, but not on the level where you look at him and think to yourself he's a future star. He MIGHT become a 2nd liner in the NHL. I could point to Garrett Wilson's numbers this year as a 18 yr. old, only 2nd year player in the OHL. 32 G and 57 P on a real bad team. Same kind of player, big aggressive power forward who crashes the net a lot. Is he a future 1st liner?

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02-21-2010, 11:36 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
Yes, but he's a 4th year 19 yr. old, that's not anything special. 27 A to go along with that, he should have a lot more than 73 pts. right now if he's to be considered a potential 1st liner in the NHL. His production has basically plateaued since his 16 yr. old year. He hasn't shown much improvement offensively at all since then. He's such a wild package emotionally, he's done some tremedously stupid things in the WHL. Team Canada didn't even want him for the WJC two years ago when he was clearly one of the best offensive players for his age in the CHL. Who knows what he becomes. I think the guy makes Steve Downie look like Mr. Rogers. At this point though I definitely wouldn't bet on him becoming a 1st liner in the NHL. Maybe a 2nd liner.
Seriously

Beach is a bit of an ### but he doesn't seem to cross the line like Downie did. Since he was drafted by Hawks only issue we have had with him was when him and Aliu got into a food fight and kicked off Rockford last year.

Beach seems to get a worse rep then he deserves. Doesn't deserve to be compared to someone like Downie

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02-21-2010, 11:39 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
Middle of the pack offense? Idk, but Spokane is a very good team. 8/22 teams. They have Levko Koper, Mitch Wahl, and Jared Cowen as well, no shortage of talent on that team. It's not like he's doing it by himself. And he's certainly not the only major offensive threat. He has 46 goals....as a 19 yr. old, 4th year player. And he's a big power forward in the WHL, that production might not come as easily in the NHL. Check out his numbers for the last 3 years. His production has basically plateaued since his 16 yr. old year. He's on pace to finish with about only 20 more points than what he finished with 3 years ago. That's not good. And he's been on good teams. 73 pts. at this point for him is not that good.

That 160 PIM isn't necessarily a good thing. He takes a lot of stupid penalties and is very short-fused/undisciplined. He has some nice talent yes, but not on the level where you look at him and think to yourself he's a future star. He MIGHT become a 2nd liner in the NHL. I could point to Garrett Wilson's numbers this year as a 18 yr. old, only 2nd year player in the OHL. 32 G and 57 P on a real bad team. Same kind of player, big aggressive power forward who crashes the net a lot. Is he a future 1st liner?
I could see, and as a Panthers fan I really hope, that Garrett Wilson will become our new David Booth... Am I wrong ? Maybe... Is David Booth a 1st liner ?... You tell me !

I'm more into Kyle Beach's tools than stats... But you still ignore the fact he is leading his league in goal-scoring ! If that isn't an accomplishment... And if it isn't good for a prospect at any stage of his development... Then I don't know what is !

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02-21-2010, 11:42 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Seriously

Beach is a bit of an ### but he doesn't seem to cross the line like Downie did. Since he was drafted by Hawks only issue we have had with him was when him and Aliu got into a food fight and kicked off Rockford last year.

Beach seems to get a worse rep then he deserves. Doesn't deserve to be compared to someone like Downie
How about that incident with a fan in the stands last season? That wasn't crossing the line?

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02-21-2010, 11:47 AM
  #30
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Thanks for showing up man !

Two questions:

- I love the Hawks, and I try to follow them as much as I can, but I haven't seen that much the last two years ! Is Versteeg really the real deal ? A friend of mine told me today, he believes a lot in him... A right-handed shot who can play wing or center in a pinch... That's good... But I think as a Panthers fan we are all wanting a potential 60 point-per-season player with a couple of 70 points season in him... And I can't believe he has it in him. What do you think of the player ?

- Your take on Beach ? Can he become that first-line player ? Would you accept losing him for the goaltender who would put your team over-the-top ?

I would love to see a good trade happenning between our two teams, because Chicago is my favourite in the West... If we could give you the missing piece, I would be ecsastic...

But remember... Joe Nieuwendyk went to Dallas to bring a Stanley Cup to this great city... People seems to forget that Jarome Iginla was sent back the other way to Calgary...

That's the kind of deal I want to see... Great for both clubs !
Versteeg defenitely has the skill as shown from his strong play as rookie and this season up until his slump.

Right now he seems to be trying to much offensively , Wanting to skate thru an entire defense or holding puck too long. Maybe it has to be from spending large chunk of season at C and then having to go back to wing on a different line then he was with most of early season.

As for Beach ,,,, He will be given every chance to be on Kane and Toews LW in future. He has the talent and his size + toughness could be a major asset on a line with those 2

If the Hawks did give up Beach in a trade I dont think it would be for a Vokoun. Vokoun is an amazing goalie but he is getting up there in age and realistically with his salary we could not afford him more then this year + next.

If Beach was traded I would probably expect it to be more for a guy like Carey Price. A young potential franchise netminder who could be our #1 for a longtime.

As for the Nieuwendyk trade. He was only 29 yrs old at the trade so he was an elite player traded at peak of his prime. Vokoun is not as young and his level of play going ahead is rather unpredictable with age. Some goalies can continue to play amazing thru there later years (Brodeur) while other can start to fall off dramatically (Turco)

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02-21-2010, 11:53 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
How about that incident with a fan in the stands last season? That wasn't crossing the line?
He never intended to hit a fan.

If you recall he shot the puck in frustration after final whistle and it cleared the glass hitting a fan.

Players especially young one's sometimes cant handle there emotions. He has done a much better job this season.

In fact him and Aliu both have been in check and seem to be maturing

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02-21-2010, 11:56 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
How about that incident with a fan in the stands last season? That wasn't crossing the line?
You forgive Ballard for his baseball-like swing... And you don't forgive Beach for that ?

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02-21-2010, 11:58 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by BabyJagrov View Post
I could see, and as a Panthers fan I really hope, that Garrett Wilson will become our new David Booth... Am I wrong ? Maybe... Is David Booth a 1st liner ?... You tell me !

I'm more into Kyle Beach's tools than stats... But you still ignore the fact he is leading his league in goal-scoring ! If that isn't an accomplishment... And if it isn't good for a prospect at any stage of his development... Then I don't know what is !
Wilson has to make unbelievable strides in his skating to become another David Booth. Some people don't seem to understand the amount of work Booth put in to become the player he is today. He was destined by the hockey gods to become a 3rd liner, but he refused to accept that. It's one of the most remarkable transformations I've ever seen in a player, I think the most remarkable, over a period of about 2-3 years. You should have seen him in college. You wouldn't even have recognized him. Not every fringe 3rd line prospect becomes a David Booth. Wilson would be very lucky to become that.

And I'm not ignoring the fact Beach is leading his league in goal scoring. As I've said, he's a big power forward who won't be able to phsyically dominate in the NHL like he does in the WHL. He's a 4th year 19 yr. old on a good team with good linemates. He should have 46 goals. It's good, but nothing remarkable for him. And 73 pts. is not good for a 4th year 19 yr. old in his position. Like I said, a prospect who the safe money would be on becoming a 3rd liner at his peak, Garrett Wilson, is top 10 in the OHL in scoring, has 32G and 57 pts., only 16 less than Beach right now in the same # of games. And this is only his 2nd year in the OHL, and is one year younger than Beach. If you are into Beach's tools more than stats, well, his tools aren't anything extraordinary. He's simply a big man right now in a boys' league, same as Wilson. In the NHL it will be a lot different. He has some nice offensive talent, but nothing that knocks your socks off.

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02-21-2010, 12:00 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Versteeg defenitely has the skill as shown from his strong play as rookie and this season up until his slump.

Right now he seems to be trying to much offensively , Wanting to skate thru an entire defense or holding puck too long. Maybe it has to be from spending large chunk of season at C and then having to go back to wing on a different line then he was with most of early season.

As for Beach ,,,, He will be given every chance to be on Kane and Toews LW in future. He has the talent and his size + toughness could be a major asset on a line with those 2

If the Hawks did give up Beach in a trade I dont think it would be for a Vokoun. Vokoun is an amazing goalie but he is getting up there in age and realistically with his salary we could not afford him more then this year + next.

If Beach was traded I would probably expect it to be more for a guy like Carey Price. A young potential franchise netminder who could be our #1 for a longtime.

As for the Nieuwendyk trade. He was only 29 yrs old at the trade so he was an elite player traded at peak of his prime. Vokoun is not as young and his level of play going ahead is rather unpredictable with age. Some goalies can continue to play amazing thru there later years (Brodeur) while other can start to fall off dramatically (Turco)
Vokoun will be an elite goaltender for the next 4-5 years, you can bet on that...

But I understand and respect your point !

So you'll be pissed when we get Beach, and I'll be jumping all over the place !

I know the Nieuwendyk comparison isn't a fair one, but I just wanted to make my point... We want a KEY piece back, just like Vokoun is a key piece to our team !

Thank you for your insight...

I may trust Versteeg... But the guy is too much like Frolik and Weiss to me, I don't want another diminutive forward who is responsible defensively...

Some Hawks fans seemed willing to send Akium Aliu with Versteeg in a package for Vokoun... What do you think of him ?

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02-21-2010, 12:04 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
Wilson has to make unbelievable strides in his skating to become another David Booth. Some people don't seem to understand the amount of work Booth put in to become the player he is today. He was destined by the hockey gods to become a 3rd liner, but he refused to accept that. It's one of the most remarkable transformations I've ever seen in a player, I think the most remarkable, over a period of about 2-3 years. You should have seen him in college. You wouldn't even have recognized him. Not every fringe 3rd line prospect becomes a David Booth. Wilson would be very lucky to become that.

And I'm not ignoring the fact Beach is leading his league in goal scoring. As I've said, he's a big power forward who won't be able to phsyically dominate in the NHL like he does in the WHL. He's a 4th year 19 yr. old on a good team with good linemates. He should have 46 goals. It's good, but nothing remarkable for him. And 73 pts. is not good for a 4th year 19 yr. old in his position. Like I said, a prospect who the safe money would be on becoming a 3rd liner at his peak, Garrett Wilson, is top 10 in the OHL in scoring, has 32G and 57 pts., only 16 less than Beach right now in the same # of games. And this is only his 2nd year in the OHL, and is one year younger than Beach. If you are into Beach's tools more than stats, well, his tools aren't anything extraordinary. He's simply a big man right now in a boys' league, same as Wilson. In the NHL it will be a lot different. He has some nice offensive talent, but nothing that knocks your socks off.
I know what kind of player David Booth was in college... And I know what kind of player Wilson is... That's why I think he can be the next David Booth... Garrett wants to be a go-to player too, and he will put all the efforts he can to become one IMO

I'm rooting for Garrett Wilson, I have high expectations for him... But I know we'll be lucky if he becomes a third-line NHL regular !

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02-21-2010, 12:05 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
He never intended to hit a fan.

If you recall he shot the puck in frustration after final whistle and it cleared the glass hitting a fan.

Players especially young one's sometimes cant handle there emotions. He has done a much better job this season.

In fact him and Aliu both have been in check and seem to be maturing
And it was still a stupid thing to do. He should know the entire reason the NHL put up protective nettign was because a little girl died once because of a stray puck. I'm not in the camp that thinks it's OK to do things like this(and whacking posts) just because it's in sports. Emotions or not, you have to keep your brain in check. Sports is real life too.

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You forgive Ballard for his baseball-like swing... And you don't forgive Beach for that ?
I didn't forgive Ballard.

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02-21-2010, 12:09 PM
  #37
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I didn't forgive Ballard.


Sorry !


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02-21-2010, 12:13 PM
  #38
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I know what kind of player David Booth was in college... And I know what kind of player Wilson is... That's why I think he can be the next David Booth... Garrett wants to be a go-to player too, and he will put all the efforts he can to become one IMO

I'm rooting for Garrett Wilson, I have high expectations for him... But I know we'll be lucky if he becomes a third-line NHL regular !
The chances of Wilson ever becoming as good as Booth are extremely remote. Don't even compare the two. Booth was a very special exception, hardly the rule.

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02-21-2010, 12:18 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
The chances of Wilson ever becoming as good as Booth are extremely remote. Don't even compare the two. Booth was a very special exception, hardly the rule.
Exactly. And yes, I believe Booth is a 1st line player. I think he can help boost his linemates. However, I'd like to see us bring in someone who can really make Nate and Weiss a top NHL first line if we hold onto them, and put Booth with Reino and Frolik on the 2nd. If they can mesh, that would be a solid 2nd line.

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02-21-2010, 12:22 PM
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The chances of Wilson ever becoming as good as Booth are extremely remote. Don't even compare the two. Booth was a very special exception, hardly the rule.
Geez... I'm not saying Wilson has more chances to accomplish that !

I'm saying he can... Not saying he will... David Booth probably had a 1/100 chance of becoming the player he is ! Wilson may have the same chance... Booth doing what he is doing, doesn't mean Wilson will have to follow the rule and become a third-liner...

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02-21-2010, 12:22 PM
  #41
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Exactly. And yes, I believe Booth is a 1st line player. I think he can help boost his linemates. However, I'd like to see us bring in someone who can really make Nate and Weiss a top NHL first line if we hold onto them, and put Booth with Reino and Frolik on the 2nd. If they can mesh, that would be a solid 2nd line.
I agree, but I think it's unlikely we bring in someone like that from outside the org. I think we'll either have to draft that player or hope Frolik becomes that guy.

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02-21-2010, 12:25 PM
  #42
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Exactly. And yes, I believe Booth is a 1st line player. I think he can help boost his linemates. However, I'd like to see us bring in someone who can really make Nate and Weiss a top NHL first line if we hold onto them, and put Booth with Reino and Frolik on the 2nd. If they can mesh, that would be a solid 2nd line.
Exactly... And I don't see how that guy can't be Kyle Beach ! If Hawks fans expect him to be every bit of the future left-winger to the Toews and Kane combo... He can certainly be the left-winger to our first line too !

Even if it means waiting for next year, and having to go through the pains of a growing rookie playing in a scoring role... Frolik did it out of junior...

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02-21-2010, 12:26 PM
  #43
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Geez... I'm not saying Wilson has more chances to accomplish that !

I'm saying he can... Not saying he will... David Booth probably had a 1/100 chance of becoming the player he is ! Wilson may have the same chance... Booth doing what he is doing, doesn't mean Wilson will have to follow the rule and become a third-liner...
Yes he can, but he probably has 1/1000000 chance of becoming like Booth. It's not even worth thinking about. Booth did, that doesn't mean everyone's going to start doing it now. It's so unlikely that it's basically unrealistic.

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02-21-2010, 12:28 PM
  #44
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Exactly... And I don't see how that guy can't be Kyle Beach ! If Hawks fans expect him to be every bit of the future left-winger to the Toews and Kane combo... He can certainly be the left-winger to our first line too !

Even if it means waiting for next year, and having to go through the pains of a growing rookie playing in a scoring role... Frolik did it out of junior...
Hawks fans want him to be the future left winger for Toews and Kane for protection, not because they expect him to become some huge point producer.

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02-21-2010, 12:33 PM
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Hawks fans want him to be the future left winger for Toews and Kane for protection, not because they expect him to become some huge point producer.
Oh... And you don't want a 25 goal-scorer, good for 50 points player that will go head hunting if some punk wants to take liberties with one of our most fragile player Stephen Weiss ?

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02-21-2010, 12:38 PM
  #46
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Oh... And you don't want a 25 goal-scorer, good for 50 points player that will go head hunting if some punk wants to take liberties with one of our most fragile player Stephen Weiss ?
Not that I wouldn't want that necessarily, but he's not the big future star you're making him out to be. And it remains to be seen if Beach even becomes a regular 25G 50P player in the NHL.

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02-21-2010, 12:41 PM
  #47
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Not that I wouldn't want that necessarily, but he's not the big future star you're making him out to be. And it remains to be seen if Beach even becomes a regular 25G 50P player in the NHL.
Beach will be a Bertuzzi type of player... Without the Moore incident and the injuries (knock on wood for the kid)...

That means when he'll get in his prime, he should stay there !

Hope you'll be around here when the kid is 28 or something...

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02-21-2010, 12:41 PM
  #48
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I hate Huet. As for Vokoun going to the Hawks, I already have a Hawks t-shirt from when I was in Chicago so I'm all set.

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02-21-2010, 12:46 PM
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I don't want Huet's contract. If there is one position in which we can fill a hole with as a free agent this summer it will be a goalie.

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02-21-2010, 12:47 PM
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Oh... And you don't want a 25 goal-scorer, good for 50 points player that will go head hunting if some punk wants to take liberties with one of our most fragile player Stephen Weiss ?
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Not that I wouldn't want that necessarily, but he's not the big future star you're making him out to be. And it remains to be seen if Beach even becomes a regular 25G 50P player in the NHL.
What is Beach's potential? Youtubed him, he's a decent enough fighter, but he's not great.

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