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Vokoun will be a BlackHawk !

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02-21-2010, 05:51 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by sinDer View Post
I really doubt it

Even as a backup, Clemmensen is not good enough, he's that bad.

And how can we be 100% sure that Markstrom is ready to be a starting goalie in the NHL?

Starting the season with an AHL goalie and a rookie? That would be irresponsible.
I hate that combo. I'm just saying it's possibly. Eventho Huet-Clemme is more likely

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02-21-2010, 06:30 PM
  #102
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markstrom is ready after next season and we still have huet, who will be here till 2012-2013 so i wouldnt take that but the 1st and 2 seconds would be tempting.
Huet's only signed for one more year.

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02-21-2010, 06:33 PM
  #103
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As long as Beach can get his head on straight and control himself a little better, I'd love to have him here.

Even if his scoring doesn't translate to the NHL, he's big and he's a physical player and isn't afraid to hit. Down the road, I doubt teams will take as many liberties on us as they do now if they see Beach and Duco in the lineup.

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02-21-2010, 06:35 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by panthersfan751 View Post
Huet's only signed for one more year.
Nope, Huet's signed thru the 2011-12 season which means he's signed for 2 more yrs. He's struggled a lot behind a very good team so that means his value is probably very, very low.

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02-21-2010, 06:38 PM
  #105
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Nope, Huet's signed thru the 2011-12 season which means he's signed for 2 more yrs. He's struggled a lot behind a very good team so that means his value is probably very, very low.
My bad then. That makes this deal a lot worse if he's signed for 2 years at that price.

We better be getting more than just a couple draft picks to justify taking this type of salary on.

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02-21-2010, 06:51 PM
  #106
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Is there any way we can get out of taking Huet? I'm grasping at straws, but maybe someone else wants him...

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02-21-2010, 06:53 PM
  #107
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My bad then. That makes this deal a lot worse if he's signed for 2 years at that price.

We better be getting more than just a couple draft picks to justify taking this type of salary on.
exactly its not as bad if he had one less year but the one more is a huge dealbreaker.

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02-21-2010, 06:56 PM
  #108
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With all your talks about Beach not being that great of guy and not that sure of a thing... I tried to think of the last great WHL prospect to have success in the NHL...

And at first, I couldn't come with one... WHL has been a "crappy" league. Sorry if I hurt some fans of this junior league. But in terms of scoring forwards, they have been crappy... Brendl anyone ?

And then I thought about another player... One who didn't dominate the WHL like YOU would expect... And certainly a player you'll say I'm not allowed to mention in the same sentence...

This guy is Ryan Getzlaf... I won't bring you the stats, you seem to be able to do that quite effectively !

To me... Beach has the SHOT, the AGITATOR FACTOR, the SIZE and the SPEED to be quite an effective NHL player... And a great Panthers player !!

Whether he'll be a 20 goal grinding third liner, a 30 goal high energy second liner or a 40 goal monster first liner, that's up to the kid and we should let him do the showing...

To me... Leading his league in goal-scoring due to great stretch where he is more focused than ever as a 19 years old with some kind of a tumultuous junior career behind him... To me, that's a great building block going forward, and proving everybody he is a player !
You're right, you're incredibly optimistic. Getzlaf??? Come on, man. Beach has nowhere near the talent Getzlaf had in junior. He was always supremely skilled, he was just thought of as lazy, that's why he didn't go top 10 in 2003. You seem to be reaching for these incredibly high heights, you need to lower your expectations a bit. Beach would sell his soul to the devil to become anywhere near as good as Getzlaf.

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02-21-2010, 07:02 PM
  #109
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Also, Crawford is really being underrated in this thread. He's not some scrub. He's a very solid AHL goalie, who I think still has the potential to be a good NHL backup. The only reason he's not in the NHL yet is because Niemi is just a little bit better. I think Crawford is better than Salak. He's a big goalie with very good reflexes who moves decently. He'd give us more depth at the position. Even if we can't move Clemmer, having Markstrom, Crawford, and Salak in the AHL would be a dominating trio, it would finally solve Rochester's goaltending issues, and imagine the callup depth we'd have. And who knows, they might see who does the best in camp and give that guy the job behind Huet, even if that's not Clemmer.

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02-21-2010, 07:12 PM
  #110
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Maybe replace Crawford with Skille and I'm ok with the trade.

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02-22-2010, 04:51 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
You're right, you're incredibly optimistic. Getzlaf??? Come on, man. Beach has nowhere near the talent Getzlaf had in junior. He was always supremely skilled, he was just thought of as lazy, that's why he didn't go top 10 in 2003. You seem to be reaching for these incredibly high heights, you need to lower your expectations a bit. Beach would sell his soul to the devil to become anywhere near as good as Getzlaf.
You put words in my mouth...

I never said Beach was as good as Getzlaf... I just asked you to go and watch the stats !

Getzlaf is already in the NHL so I know your speech will be different. But I would have love to see you debating on Getzlaf's potential in his last year in junior. But I guess Ryan is a whole other monster, and putting about a point-per-game in his last year of junior is AMAZING for a guy like Getzlaf !!

Whereas Kyle Beach is a bum, and leads his league in goal juste because he is 6'3 and 200 lbs and he runs over people due to him being a man amongst boys !

I love your opinion, I love reading your posts here... But man if I'm the incredibly optimistic one... You must be the deaf and the blind in the same body !

Kyle Beach was expected to be a top-3 or top-5 pick a couple of years before his draft year... Then people were scared away because of his attitude problems... So he fell to 11th... Getzlaf was expected to be a top-10 pick... Then people were scared away because of his skating and laziness...

Getzlaf may be supremly talented compared to Beach... My point was that you don't have to put huge numbers in the WHL to be considered a monster prospect...

You talk about my expectations, you don't even know them... Wanting a player because of his "home-run" potential doesn't mean you expect the guy to be Babe Ruth !

As I've said... Kyle Beach has the shot, the agitator style, the skating and the size to be quite an effective NHLer, what kind of NHLer will he be ? I don't know.

Can you explain why I need to lower my expectations ? People with low expectations are people easily satisfy... Satisfaction is death to me... So no thanks buddy !

I'm tired of this debate... What I don't get, is that you projected him to be a 30 goal-scorer 60 pts player if everything goes right... Even though you can't say a good thing about the player !

You even compared Garrett Wilson with the kid, and I was a gentleman, I didn't even laugh at you...

I may be an optimistic... You know what... That's fine as long as I don't get blind !

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02-22-2010, 04:54 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
Also, Crawford is really being underrated in this thread. He's not some scrub. He's a very solid AHL goalie, who I think still has the potential to be a good NHL backup. The only reason he's not in the NHL yet is because Niemi is just a little bit better. I think Crawford is better than Salak. He's a big goalie with very good reflexes who moves decently. He'd give us more depth at the position. Even if we can't move Clemmer, having Markstrom, Crawford, and Salak in the AHL would be a dominating trio, it would finally solve Rochester's goaltending issues, and imagine the callup depth we'd have. And who knows, they might see who does the best in camp and give that guy the job behind Huet, even if that's not Clemmer.
Corey Crawford is a good goalie... A pretty good goalie...

I'm kind of surprised by the reaction of other posters regarding the ex-Wildcats !

Crawford is a good goalie and still has potential.

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02-22-2010, 09:53 AM
  #113
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if we have to take huet back i don't do the deal!!! 2 years of a horrible, untradeable contract is no bargain!!! vokuon has one more year, gives us a chance at some respectability. has a similar cap hit as huet. we can get a better deal if we want to trade vokuon down the road. why trade your best asset with on year remaining on his contract for a subpar over paid untradeable goalie with 2 years left on his contract?????? that is very poor management of your PRIZE ASSET!!!!!!!
it's a great deal for chicago, but a very questionable, BAD deal for us!!!!!!!!!

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02-22-2010, 10:03 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by harv3317 View Post
if we have to take huet back i don't do the deal!!! 2 years of a horrible, untradeable contract is no bargain!!! vokuon has one more year, gives us a chance at some respectability. has a similar cap hit as huet. we can get a better deal if we want to trade vokuon down the road. why trade your best asset with on year remaining on his contract for a subpar over paid untradeable goalie with 2 years left on his contract?????? that is very poor management of your PRIZE ASSET!!!!!!!
it's a great deal for chicago, but a very questionable, BAD deal for us!!!!!!!!!
Yea, thanks Randy...

Vokoun is not lightyears ahead of Huet... He is not Corey Crawford, Kris Versteeg and a 1st ahead of him... It'd be nice if we could add Philly in this deal and send Huet to Philly for Briere or Hartnell... But let's be realistic here. Vokoun has a 6 mil cap hit, were not gonna just take no salary back.

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02-22-2010, 12:33 PM
  #115
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I would take Huet's contract back, as long as Beach and Versteeg are included as well. I would rather us get Sharp, but Chicago will move Versteeg before they move Sharp. If we can get Sharp, we will be solid down the middle, with Weiss, Sharp, Rheino, and Soupy/Matthias next season.

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02-22-2010, 12:49 PM
  #116
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As far as huet's contract, I look at it as Vokoun's contract, only one year longer. Does one more year make that big a difference if you can get someone like Sharp along with it? I don't think so. Now Huet isn't in Vokoun's class but he is an established NHL starting goalie. Now the future of this team is Markstrom but it would be much better for him to have to beat out an established starter than rushing him into the job with only a career backup behind him to pick up the pieces if/when he struggles.

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02-22-2010, 12:55 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
Also, Crawford is really being underrated in this thread. He's not some scrub. He's a very solid AHL goalie, who I think still has the potential to be a good NHL backup. The only reason he's not in the NHL yet is because Niemi is just a little bit better. I think Crawford is better than Salak. He's a big goalie with very good reflexes who moves decently. He'd give us more depth at the position. Even if we can't move Clemmer, having Markstrom, Crawford, and Salak in the AHL would be a dominating trio, it would finally solve Rochester's goaltending issues, and imagine the callup depth we'd have. And who knows, they might see who does the best in camp and give that guy the job behind Huet, even if that's not Clemmer.
I'm not sure anyone's saying he's a scrub, but goaltending is the the last position the Panthers need right now. Getting two back doesn't make a whole lot of sense when they have needs everywhere else unless they know they can flip one of them.

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02-22-2010, 01:00 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
As far as huet's contract, I look at it as Vokoun's contract, only one year longer. Does one more year make that big a difference if you can get someone like Sharp along with it? I don't think so. Now Huet isn't in Vokoun's class but he is an established NHL starting goalie. Now the future of this team is Markstrom but it would be much better for him to have to beat out an established starter than rushing him into the job with only a career backup behind him to pick up the pieces if/when he struggles.
Same here my friend...

Sharp or even Versteeg ! As long as we get another great piece and don't have to sacrifice Seidenberg there...

We could then trade Stillman in the offseason for young assets. Sign Seidenberg... Trade McCabe... Go get another scorer and a capable top-4 defenseman.

And please get rid of Clemmensen !

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02-22-2010, 01:56 PM
  #119
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Yea, thanks Randy...

Vokoun is not lightyears ahead of Huet... He is not Corey Crawford, Kris Versteeg and a 1st ahead of him... It'd be nice if we could add Philly in this deal and send Huet to Philly for Briere or Hartnell... But let's be realistic here. Vokoun has a 6 mil cap hit, were not gonna just take no salary back.
Yes he is.
And we don't need Corey Crawford.

The end.

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02-22-2010, 02:24 PM
  #120
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Yes he is.
And we don't need Corey Crawford.

The end.
If we can ship Clemmensen out, Corey Crawford would be greatly helpful... GREATLY !

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02-22-2010, 02:27 PM
  #121
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If we can ship Clemmensen out, Corey Crawford would be greatly helpful... GREATLY !
We can't. No team wants him.

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02-22-2010, 02:55 PM
  #122
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We can't. No team wants him.
We take Chi's problems with Huet... They can take ours with Clemmensen maybe !

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02-22-2010, 03:26 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by BabyJagrov View Post
You put words in my mouth...

I never said Beach was as good as Getzlaf... I just asked you to go and watch the stats !

Getzlaf is already in the NHL so I know your speech will be different. But I would have love to see you debating on Getzlaf's potential in his last year in junior. But I guess Ryan is a whole other monster, and putting about a point-per-game in his last year of junior is AMAZING for a guy like Getzlaf !!

Whereas Kyle Beach is a bum, and leads his league in goal juste because he is 6'3 and 200 lbs and he runs over people due to him being a man amongst boys !

I love your opinion, I love reading your posts here... But man if I'm the incredibly optimistic one... You must be the deaf and the blind in the same body !

Kyle Beach was expected to be a top-3 or top-5 pick a couple of years before his draft year... Then people were scared away because of his attitude problems... So he fell to 11th... Getzlaf was expected to be a top-10 pick... Then people were scared away because of his skating and laziness...
Like I said, Getzlaf was considered to be an underachiever. No, his last season of junior wasn't that great for him. But still, he always had the talent to be much better. Something clicked along the way and he turned into the superstar he could be. Beach is not lazy or an underachiever, he's just not nearly as talented as Getzlaf was. That's why comparing their junior stats doesn't work, it's two different situations. I never said Beach was a bum or a bad player. I gave my reasons for why I thought the 46 goals isn't as impressive as it looks, and yes him being a man amongst boys right now is certainly one of them. You always take that into account when you are looking at much bigger junior players. Some of them are very productive in junior because they can physically dominate their peers at that level, but when they get to the pros it's a whole different story. Anthony Stewart anyone?

Also, it became apparent during the 2008 draft year that Beach was not a top 3-5 pick based solely on his talent, there were other prospects than emerged as superior to Beach such as Pietrangelo, Schenn, Bogosian, Wilson, etc.


Quote:
Getzlaf may be supremly talented compared to Beach... My point was that you don't have to put huge numbers in the WHL to be considered a monster prospect...
Well, you have to do something. Right now, I'd say Beach's upside is about a 60 pt. player in the NHL, who also brings toughness and physicality. While that's a nice thing to have, I wouldn't call that a monster prospect. Again, you can't compare Getzlaf to Beach in the WHL because Getzlaf always had amazing talent underneath his laziness. You said you're not saying that Beach is as good as Getzlaf was, but that's basically what you're implying, that he could become as good as Getzlaf.

Quote:
You talk about my expectations, you don't even know them... Wanting a player because of his "home-run" potential doesn't mean you expect the guy to be Babe Ruth !
You stated what your expectations of Beach were, a Bertuzzi-lite.

Quote:
As I've said... Kyle Beach has the shot, the agitator style, the skating and the size to be quite an effective NHLer, what kind of NHLer will he be ? I don't know.

Can you explain why I need to lower my expectations ? People with low expectations are people easily satisfy... Satisfaction is death to me... So no thanks buddy !
Because if you always have high expectations, that's unrealistic. A lot of prospects don't fulfill their full potential. As Laus said, you have to project their upside, then their lowest point, and then what's in the middle should be your expectations.

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I'm tired of this debate... What I don't get, is that you projected him to be a 30 goal-scorer 60 pts player if everything goes right... Even though you can't say a good thing about the player !
If it seems like I can't say a good thing about Beach, it's only because I was trying to counter your overly optimistic views of him. I do like Beach somewhat, I even said he's got some nice talent, but I'm just not prepared to call him a future 1st liner at this point.

Quote:
You even compared Garrett Wilson with the kid, and I was a gentleman, I didn't even laugh at you...
Why would you laugh at me? Beach has 46 goals, 73 pts., he's a 4th year 19 yr. old. Wilson has 32 goals, 57 pts., he's a 2nd year 18 yr. old. Looking at those numbers, Wilson's projection path seems to mirror Beach's very closely by the time he's 19 or 20. Or do you only count the numbers for Beach and dismiss them for Wilson??? Double standard much?


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Originally Posted by Sports24-7 View Post
I'm not sure anyone's saying he's a scrub, but goaltending is the the last position the Panthers need right now. Getting two back doesn't make a whole lot of sense when they have needs everywhere else unless they know they can flip one of them.
I know, but simply put Crawford's an asset. Doesn't really matter if he's a goalie, prospects can always be traded to shore up other areas of need. Who knows, maybe Florida was offered a choice of prospects from every position, and Crawford was more appealing than the D and F prospects. And considering he'd probably be our best AHL goalie if Markstrom made the Panthers, I don't see how that's a bad thing. If it pushes Salak farther down the ladder, that's a good thing. All that means is that your prospects are strong. Having strong callup depth at goalie and also strong netminding on your AHL team where your prospects are developing is never a bad thing. It would simply add more depth, which is never a bad thing. We are not so deep at goalie that we can't use Crawford. Yes, we need help in other areas, but that doesn't all have to come from one move. That would be basically impossible anyway.

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02-22-2010, 03:39 PM
  #124
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It doesn't need it's own thread, imo, we have several threads on Vokoun currently.

Why do we need Huet AND Crawford when we have such strong prospects already? Huet's signed for an additional year at the same cap hit, so I'd imagine it would have to be Chicago paying more than Versteeg and a goalie prospect for him. Unless Chicago's also taking on Clemmer's contract.

I'm fine with him going there, but we gain almost no cap relief by taking on Huet, there'd have to be far more to the deal, imo.
I agree, Huet and Crawford seems a bit redundant. The problem is Chicago has to dump the salary of Huet and Crawford instead isn't enough unless they throw in something else of strong value. I think Huet, 1st rounder, Versteeg and mystery option x (dman prospect?) for Vokoun and Leopold is plenty.

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02-22-2010, 03:59 PM
  #125
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I agree, Huet and Crawford seems a bit redundant. The problem is Chicago has to dump the salary of Huet and Crawford instead isn't enough unless they throw in something else of strong value. I think Huet, 1st rounder, Versteeg and mystery option x (dman prospect?) for Vokoun and Leopold is plenty.
Unless Chicago is willing to take Clemmensen in the deal, then Crawford makes sense. Chicago can far better afford Clemmer in the minors than Florida can. Not that it makes a ton of sense for either team.

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