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Old
02-08-2010, 09:38 PM
  #51
Jarnberg
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But then they couldn't throw blame towards them for anything bad which happens on the ice. Almost always instead of analyzing the players, its always.. KLEIN SUX !!111

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02-08-2010, 10:46 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Milly79 View Post
I, for one, think that +/- is one of the, if not the key factor in determining a defenseman. He's -12, and that doesn't even factor in PP GA. That may not be as bad as it seems, but I still do not get why Trotz pairs them together all the time. They let in a goal, BAM back on the ice. Maybe this is why we aren't getting paid big to coach.
May I ask why you figure that? I disagree. +/- is such a weak stat IMO. Too many factors go into it. I do believe sometimes it tells the true story while other times it doesn't.

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02-08-2010, 11:30 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Predsrule View Post
Come on, can't we at least have a little humor around the 2-8 topic every now and then? Or maybe it just wasn't very funny.... Tough crowd but don't worry, I'll be hear until Friday just like the fresh fish special.

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02-08-2010, 11:58 PM
  #54
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May I ask why you figure that? I disagree. +/- is such a weak stat IMO. Too many factors go into it. I do believe sometimes it tells the true story while other times it doesn't.
I think it's sort of a weird statistic... you can be doing everything right as say, an offensive player, and the d screws up resulting in a goal and you get -. I mean I don't think the stat is totally irrelevant but I don't think it should be looked at too seriously.

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Old
02-09-2010, 12:09 AM
  #55
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Well, should giveaways been taken that seriously too then? If a defensemen is skating up ice and he has no one to pass to because his forwards and d partner have not given him a good option, is that a fair assessment of his ability? I cannot tell you how many times I watch the Preds play and the left defenseman goes with the puck up the boards and a guy forechecking bears down on him and he has no angle or anyone to pass to. Not saying it's his teammates fault but if guys aren't moving or getting open or just going to a spot, it's kind of hard not to turn the puck over.

Lots of things happen on the ice that makes the plus minus stat unfair but over the course of a season, I think it evens out and gives a good measure of a persons ability on the ice. It's not a be all stat by any means but it's not as useless as some make it out to be. People will always say, what about the guy just stepping on the ice and he gets a minus. Well, what about that same guy stepping on the ice and getting a plus? Someone said the defense made a bad play and the forward gets a minus. Well, what about when the forward makes a bad play, the defense gets a minus as well. There are so many scenarios out there that make it seem unfair but for every bad case, I think there are just as many good cases that help guys stats too.

I think you may get a few here and there that are bad but for some reason, great players seem to have pretty good numbers over the years. I don't think it's coincidence that this happens.

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Old
02-09-2010, 12:14 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Well, should giveaways been taken that seriously too then? If a defensemen is skating up ice and he has no one to pass to because his forwards and d partner have not given him a good option, is that a fair assessment of his ability? I cannot tell you how many times I watch the Preds play and the left defenseman goes with the puck up the boards and a guy forechecking bears down on him and he has no angle or anyone to pass to. Not saying it's his teammates fault but if guys aren't moving or getting open or just going to a spot, it's kind of hard not to turn the puck over.

Lots of things happen on the ice that makes the plus minus stat unfair but over the course of a season, I think it evens out and gives a good measure of a persons ability on the ice. It's not a be all stat by any means but it's not as useless as some make it out to be. People will always say, what about the guy just stepping on the ice and he gets a minus. Well, what about that same guy stepping on the ice and getting a plus? Someone said the defense made a bad play and the forward gets a minus. Well, what about when the forward makes a bad play, the defense gets a minus as well. There are so many scenarios out there that make it seem unfair but for every bad case, I think there are just as many good cases that help guys stats too.

I think you may get a few here and there that are bad but for some reason, great players seem to have pretty good numbers over the years. I don't think it's coincidence that this happens.
This.

Honestly, beside giveaways, what else would you key in on for a defenseman? There really aren't any other stats that he NHL keeps track of. That I can think of, ATM.

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Old
02-09-2010, 12:15 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milly79 View Post
This.

Honestly, beside giveaways, what else would you key in on for a defenseman? There really aren't any other stats that he NHL keeps track of. That I can think of, ATM.
Giveaways are a stat for everyone, as is plus/minus.

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Old
02-09-2010, 01:50 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by braindead View Post
Come on, can't we at least have a little humor around the 2-8 topic every now and then? Or maybe it just wasn't very funny.... Tough crowd but don't worry, I'll be hear until Friday just like the fresh fish special.
lol i knew what u were trying to do just thought id throw in my little funny face as the post was a bit nuts

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Old
02-10-2010, 05:07 AM
  #59
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I'd like to keep him. Am I the only one here?
Posted via Mobile Device

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02-10-2010, 08:46 AM
  #60
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I'd like to keep him. Am I the only one here?
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Nah, I'd like to keep him too.

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Old
02-10-2010, 11:52 AM
  #61
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I'd like to keep him, too. I just think the 2-8 combo doesn't work. I still think he is a good D man having a generally off year.

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Old
02-10-2010, 12:05 PM
  #62
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I haven't been able to watch many games lately, but the 2-8 combo worked fine last night from what I saw. They looked really good, in fact.

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Old
02-10-2010, 03:17 PM
  #63
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they look good together when both decide to play the blueline. problem is, they both have an offensive itch and when they try to do to much (ex. hamhuis forechecking a shark and taking a bad penalty) is when we get into trouble.

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Old
02-14-2010, 10:24 AM
  #64
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Hi Guys, I'm in a trade deadline game, and people are after Hamhuis. What do you guys have his value at? I'm trying to get a roster player (forward, hopefully top 6) and a young defencemen who's NHL ready but down on somebody's depth chart.

That too much/not enough?

Any help would be great

Thanks.

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Old
02-19-2010, 03:35 PM
  #65
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Boston Bound

http://www.hockeytraderumors.com/article12181.html

Maybe for Ference or Sobatko(sp) and a conditional 2nd if he signs or not remember he is still a rental

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Old
02-19-2010, 03:41 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StanJonathan View Post
Boston Bound

http://www.hockeytraderumors.com/article12181.html

Maybe for Ference or Sobatko(sp) and a conditional 2nd if he signs or not remember he is still a rental
Nothing confirmed as yet but the smoke is begining to look white.

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Old
02-19-2010, 03:48 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StanJonathan View Post
Boston Bound

http://www.hockeytraderumors.com/article12181.html

Maybe for Ference or Sobatko(sp) and a conditional 2nd if he signs or not remember he is still a rental
Don't count chickens before they're hatched. Kessel was "Nashville bound" with a lot more smoke than this. You'd have to think that teams other than Boston will be interested, especially given the quality(or lack thereof) of other rental d-men.

The trade deadline is interesting because it only takes one clown to overpay and drive the price up. If the deal proposed to Poile is Ference for Hamhuis and a CONDITIONAL pick, how does it even benefit Nashville to make that deal? They're not selling off assets and rebuilding, they're trying to retool and shore up for the playoffs themselves. They'd be better served to just hold on to Hamhuis, if that's the return.

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Old
02-19-2010, 03:59 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
Don't count chickens before they're hatched. Kessel was "Nashville bound" with a lot more smoke than this. You'd have to think that teams other than Boston will be interested, especially given the quality(or lack thereof) of other rental d-men.

The trade deadline is interesting because it only takes one clown to overpay and drive the price up. If the deal proposed to Poile is Ference for Hamhuis and a CONDITIONAL pick, how does it even benefit Nashville to make that deal? They're not selling off assets and rebuilding, they're trying to retool and shore up for the playoffs themselves. They'd be better served to just hold on to Hamhuis, if that's the return.
There's probably something else involved from Boston but it does get you a cheaper Dman to help tutor your younger Dman if you resign Ference

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Old
02-19-2010, 04:36 PM
  #69
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Halpern for Hamhuis? UFA for UFA. Salaries are basically the same.

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Old
02-21-2010, 06:17 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Halpern for Hamhuis? UFA for UFA. Salaries are basically the same.
Not a bad basis for a deal. Halpern would be a good fit, and if we're still talking with Tampa Bay, he's the guy we're interested in, but we'd need more for our most valuable bargaining chip.

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Old
02-21-2010, 10:06 PM
  #71
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Hamhuis for Wheeler and it would be a done deal.

Then pick up a rental d-man. One of:

Seidenberg
Leopold
Corvo
Jurcina
Coliacovo
Exelby

Leopold is my Pick

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Old
02-21-2010, 10:06 PM
  #72
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Not a bad basis for a deal. Halpern would be a good fit, and if we're still talking with Tampa Bay, he's the guy we're interested in, but we'd need more for our most valuable bargaining chip.
Can we add Hedman to the deal then?

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Old
03-24-2010, 01:59 PM
  #73
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alright andrew ference just signed a 2.25 million per, 3 year deal. does this bring hamhuis down to the 3 million range?

i doubt so, but just wanted to start a debate

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Old
03-24-2010, 02:08 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
alright andrew ference just signed a 2.25 million per, 3 year deal. does this bring hamhuis down to the 3 million range?

i doubt so, but just wanted to start a debate
Hamhuis has missed 5 games in 5 years ... a pretty average dman ... but isn't overly horrible like Klein is ... I think he'll command more than 3-4 mil/year for about 6 years would be respectable

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Old
03-24-2010, 05:25 PM
  #75
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I think ultimately this will boil down to how much of a hometown discount would hammer give, and how many years he would be willing to sign for at the discounted price. On one hand, poile could reasonably say that if he could lock in hamhuis for 4-5 years in the 2.5 to 3 million range, starting smaller and then increasing with time, that would be good insurance against eventually not being able to re-sign Weber or Suter. But with so many prospects in the system who could theoretically replace Hammer at a much lower price, poile isnt about to break the bank for him, so if Hammer is determined to sign his "one big deal" this time, it will almost certainly be with another team.

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