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Your "I Hate the Ref" Moments

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Old
02-21-2010, 03:49 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Stripes View Post
What would you expect when the sport does not require shoulder pads, aside from the youngest age groups, and when not every association can afford a roller hockey floor, so they're playing on concrete floors?



Bodychecking is when you either deliver the contact with force or when you are traveling in the opposite direction as your opponent. Skating along side your opponent and pinching him off along the boards as you take the puck away is not bodychecking in any rulebook.

You can use your body to separate your opponent from the puck without throwing a bodycheck.
Ok, difference in terms, I typically explain that as positioning to players, as in, "Buddy skated hard to get inside position, there was no body on body, it was body in front of body, or body on stick"

I find that a bit easier to explain than to say the player used his body to get the puck and then have to explain how it wasn't a bodycheck.

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02-21-2010, 05:36 PM
  #127
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Ok, difference in terms, I typically explain that as positioning to players, as in, "Buddy skated hard to get inside position, there was no body on body, it was body in front of body, or body on stick"

I find that a bit easier to explain than to say the player used his body to get the puck and then have to explain how it wasn't a bodycheck.
Not really a difference in terms. You can still have body-on-body contact without it being a bodycheck.

Watch a womens game to see the body contact they have without taking a Bodychecking penalty.

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02-21-2010, 05:40 PM
  #128
pens4life
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I hate refs when they blow the damn whistle to fast and the puck is clearly not covered and then the team on the forecheck puts the puck in the net then refs call it no goal..seriously

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02-21-2010, 09:54 PM
  #129
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I hate refs when they blow the damn whistle to fast and the puck is clearly not covered and then the team on the forecheck puts the puck in the net then refs call it no goal..seriously
How could a referee possibly allow a goal after play is dead? There is no logical explanation you can give us to back up what you just said.

Referees have to kill play when they lose sight of the puck. Sometimes that happens when it's not covered. **** happens. It's a better thing to have happen than a referee giving a few seconds just in case the puck is free because it will happen when the goaltender DOES have the puck and it will allow him to get his arm slashed off by forwards trying to dig the puck out.

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02-21-2010, 11:54 PM
  #130
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How could a referee possibly allow a goal after play is dead? There is no logical explanation you can give us to back up what you just said.

Referees have to kill play when they lose sight of the puck. Sometimes that happens when it's not covered. **** happens. It's a better thing to have happen than a referee giving a few seconds just in case the puck is free because it will happen when the goaltender DOES have the puck and it will allow him to get his arm slashed off by forwards trying to dig the puck out.
This. How can you call it a goal when the puck goes in after the whistle. And the goalies response to hacking is a good old jab Or a hack back, where fight or line brawl ensues...

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02-22-2010, 08:56 AM
  #131
Rob Brown
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Was playing a regular season game a few years ago. The ref was absolutely terrible and was making bad calls all game. In the third period, we had two guys in the box.

I took a very questionable hooking penalty, and argued with the ref for a bit before going to the box. I barely touched the other player at all, and it was certainly undeserving of a penalty. Once I got in the box and the ref started skating back to the faceoff dot at centre ice, the other two guys in our box started chirping at the ref and swearing at him, while I said nothing. The ref turned around, looked at me and told me to get off the ice. I told him I hadn't said anything, but he said he heard me and then he kicked me out. I wasn't about to say it was my teammates that were swearing at him, so I went off the ice. I expected the two other guys to say it was them, but it happens sometimes. I've actually had this ref on more than one occasion and he was equally bad each time.

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02-22-2010, 11:33 AM
  #132
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Refs in any sport at any level of play are going to miss things I understand or make a bad call, but at least they can do it consistent.

What I can't stand is refs who ref late games ignoring icing, offsides, and stick penalties because they don't want to slow the game down and want to get home. These refs always lose control of the games and it ends up turning into a cheap shot contest.

I also hate refs who call "loud noise" and "big guy" penalties.

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02-22-2010, 07:30 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Husker View Post
Refs in any sport at any level of play are going to miss things I understand or make a bad call, but at least they can do it consistent.

What I can't stand is refs who ref late games ignoring icing, offsides, and stick penalties because they don't want to slow the game down and want to get home. These refs always lose control of the games and it ends up turning into a cheap shot contest.

I also hate refs who call "loud noise" and "big guy" penalties.
Why can't the players take it upon themselves to not dish out the cheap shots? Referees are not babysitters, especially when adults are playing. Referees do not control the actions of players. It's even in Hockey Canada's rulebook that coaches are responsible for the actions of their players. Obviously beer leagues don't have coaches, so that responsibility falls onto the players.

Expectations of beer league officials seems to be way too high. What you are getting a lot of the time are old guys who are there to make money. They're obviously not professionals, and in a lot of cases, they are not certified officials either. The league in my town just puts whoever it can on the ice because nobody wants to ref their garbage. They tried to require Hockey Canada certification this season, but when a lot the old "beer league vets" found out how much it was to certify, they said no, and the league wasn't about to dish out $100+ per official for certification.

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02-22-2010, 07:39 PM
  #134
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No player should be responsible for their own actions, thats the zebras job

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02-23-2010, 11:49 AM
  #135
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Maybe I should rephrase. These refs decide not to call painfully obvious infractions. Players see this and get bolder and it goes down hill. These refs get paid. If you or myself slacked off and decided we didn't need to do our jobs it wouldn't end good. These refs continue to rake in their 120-200 dollars a night regardless of what they do.

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02-23-2010, 11:53 AM
  #136
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I usually don't have these moments too often. When it does... it is normally a result of a ref that could have clearly been paying a bit more attention.

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02-23-2010, 02:48 PM
  #137
Gino 14
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Originally Posted by Husker View Post
Maybe I should rephrase. These refs decide not to call painfully obvious infractions. Players see this and get bolder and it goes down hill. These refs get paid. If you or myself slacked off and decided we didn't need to do our jobs it wouldn't end good. These refs continue to rake in their 120-200 dollars a night regardless of what they do.
How many games do they have to do to make that kind of money?

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02-23-2010, 02:53 PM
  #138
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I usually don't have these moments too often. When it does... it is normally a result of a ref that could have clearly been paying a bit more attention.
At those times when you say the ref could have been paying more attention, what was he doing? Was he off playing cards in the corner, texting his girlfriend? It couldn't be that he was watching two other goofs slashing or swinging at each other or that some slob, just managed to skate in front of him so he couldn't see, or a million other things that would cause him to miss whatever it is you think is so important?

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02-23-2010, 03:13 PM
  #139
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Game 5 of a best of seven series..
We're up in the series 2-1 (with one tie, yeah it's weird) and I'm on the ice, with 46 seconds left in a game where we have a one-goal lead.

They've got an empty net, and the guy on our team leading the rush loses it inside their zone, and I'm not close enough to get there so I curl back, knowing that they'd just move it around me with the extra guy open. So I'm on the right side of the neutral zone by myself (no one within 10 feet) while their errant breakout pass goes up the left and my other winger touches it at their blueline. The linesman skates by and goes "I think he means you, bud", so I look at the ref, and he pats his head, pats his knee with the other hand and kicks out his leg.
I'm going "what the **** is going on here?" as I glide to the box, and the ref goes, "Nope, you're outta here. Match Penalty, kicking!"

So I was ejected from the game, no one on the bench or in the stands saw me even make contact with anybody, and if my appeal doesn't go through, I'm ejected for the possible series clincher at home.

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02-23-2010, 03:28 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gino 14 View Post
At those times when you say the ref could have been paying more attention, what was he doing? Was he off playing cards in the corner, texting his girlfriend? It couldn't be that he was watching two other goofs slashing or swinging at each other or that some slob, just managed to skate in front of him so he couldn't see, or a million other things that would cause him to miss whatever it is you think is so important?
More or less general laziness. Other times they know someone on the bench and while watching the play on that end will still jaw back and forth with their buddy.

In a whole season get that feeling maybe twice. Also, I am never one to yell at the Ref or anything. I understand calls get missed or maybe something was in the way. Lower leagues will have some of the newbie refs too. Just on those rare occasions where you had to have really not been paying attention to miss it.

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02-23-2010, 04:36 PM
  #141
Canad93
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More or less general laziness. Other times they know someone on the bench and while watching the play on that end will still jaw back and forth with their buddy.

In a whole season get that feeling maybe twice. Also, I am never one to yell at the Ref or anything. I understand calls get missed or maybe something was in the way. Lower leagues will have some of the newbie refs too. Just on those rare occasions where you had to have really not been paying attention to miss it.
I don't find that refs aren't paying attention, because a lot of the time I assume they are paying attention something that's happening right in the heat of the play. But during our playoff series, I've noticed a few times the puck carrier will get slashed hard enough and obvious enough for it to be heard and seen across the rink, and the ref disregards it completely.
Or I'll be standing in front of the net, and the official will be behind me looking towards us with the play on the other side of the ice and I'll be taking the usual from the defenceman when he just turns and cross checks me across the back hard enough to knock me down and leave a stick mark, and it gets ignored.

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02-23-2010, 05:28 PM
  #142
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I can understand missed slash calls and missed hook calls. What gets me going is ignored icing when your team has a short bench and you shoot the pick goal line to goal line and nobody had a shot at touching it. Ignored high stick calls. Avoiding stopping the clock for any reason because the game started at 10:30 and they want to get home. Things that take away from your enjoyment of playing because you got scheduled the 10PM or later games.

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02-23-2010, 05:43 PM
  #143
SJGoalie32
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House league is correct term. Cant call any minor hockey beer league for obvious reasons.
Sunny Delight league

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02-23-2010, 07:17 PM
  #144
SJGoalie32
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Originally Posted by Stripes View Post
Why can't the players take it upon themselves to not dish out the cheap shots? Referees are not babysitters, especially when adults are playing. Referees do not control the actions of players. It's even in Hockey Canada's rulebook that coaches are responsible for the actions of their players. Obviously beer leagues don't have coaches, so that responsibility falls onto the players.
This is true.

But usually when a goal is scored against your team, it's rarely just one person's fault. The goalie should have stopped the puck, the forward shouldn't have turned the puck over, the defenseman was out of position and left the opponent wide open for a breakaway, the line was out on the ice too long, etc.

So it is also with officiating. No referee has 100% control over the players' actions on the ice, but they can influence how the game is played......and I find it somewhat disturbing that you as an official don't seem able or willing to recognize the role one can play in that.

Players acting like a-clowns are not the 100% responsiblity of the ref, but to the degree that a ref CAN prevent bad things from happening via their control over the game--even if only by 25%--that can be a tremendous benefit to the game and overall player safety.....if for no other reason than because it gets the a-clowns off the ice for 2 mins, 5 mins, or the game.

All players are responsible for their actions. But one of the biggest reasons we pay hundreds of dollars in league/tournament fees is to have impartial and somewhat competent third party individuals be responsible for administering the game according to its rules and enforcing violations of such. Sure, we could all just be responsible for not high-sticking or cross-checking or punching another player.....but if players just all did that of their own accord, then we wouldn't have needed to hire refs in the first place.

Yes, it is the player's responsibility not to cross-check someone in the head. But when even the 3rd party/unbiased official standing right next to the play watches a player take a cross-check to the back of the head in a non-checking league and effectively declares that to be a legal play in the game by refusing to enforce the rules.....that's a problem.

It is the players' responsibility not to cross-check, it is the other players' responsibility not to retaliate, and it is the refs' responsiblity to penalize such violations. If the ref's passivity (or desire to go home early) acts as implied support for more boderline dangerous play, well, then the ref is not living up to their (often paid) duty. That failure doesn't absolve the players of their responsibilities, but neither do the players' failures absolve the ref of his responsibilities.

If a ref called everything they could and kept the game under control and the players STILL threw cheap shots, that's totally on the players. If the ref blatantly ignored obvious infractions (some involving player safety) because that would slow the game down and he'd get home 10 minutes later, that contributes (not causes, not creates.....but "contributes") to a dangerous environment. The latter affects the safety of the game to a certain degree and is indicative of a ref who should find a different job.


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Old
02-24-2010, 10:43 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Husker View Post
Maybe I should rephrase. These refs decide not to call painfully obvious infractions. Players see this and get bolder and it goes down hill. These refs get paid. If you or myself slacked off and decided we didn't need to do our jobs it wouldn't end good. These refs continue to rake in their 120-200 dollars a night regardless of what they do.
Why do the players "get bolder"? Why can't they control their own actions and play the kind of hockey it really is.. RECREATIONAL?

$120-200 a night? I don't believe that. We have a well-paying league here, and they pay $25-30 per game, and nobody does more than 2-3 games a night.

You want to know why a lot of refs slack off in beer leagues and "get away with it"? It's because nobody wants to take their "jobs". I put "jobs" in quotation marks because officiating is a job for nobody outside of professional hockey, and even a lot of minor pro hockey officials do it in addition to their day jobs.

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Originally Posted by SJGoalie32 View Post
So it is also with officiating. No referee has 100% control over the players' actions on the ice, but they can influence how the game is played......and I find it somewhat disturbing that you as an official don't seem able or willing to recognize the role one can play in that.
I never said a game cannot be controlled by penalties. My entire point is that when penalties are called, it is 100% up to the players to control themselves due to the penalties being called. My other point, especially in minor hockey and adult rec leagues, is that when these penalties are not called (which will happen often with young/inexperienced and uncertified officials in the beer league), they still need to to control their actions, and when they don't, the referee is the scapegoat because according to them calling penalties has some kind of magical power that the adults on the ice/bench cannot comprehend.

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