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Rinne's deal sets the bar for Halak?

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Old
02-25-2010, 06:32 AM
  #26
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We'll sign Halak for 2.25 million I predict.

Price will either be traded at the draft or sign as a RFA to a Western Conference team.

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02-25-2010, 06:41 AM
  #27
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I think a fair number would be 5 mil for 2 years for Halak and 3.8 mil for 2 years for Price, cap hit equals to 4.4/year.

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02-25-2010, 06:51 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seb View Post
There is no way Halak belongs to that list

Halak at 1.5 is much more realistic
realistic ?

1. Habs have a season because of him
2. Slovaks have a chance of a medal because of him
3. he's only 24 and can still improve his game
4. he WILL have a better offer from KHL guaranteed
5. he's better than at least two or three goalies in the list
6. he improved every single year since he's in NA
7. he's a pro, works had, never complain, always give credit to his teammates, etc

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02-25-2010, 06:54 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
realistic ?

1. Habs have a season because of him
2. Slovaks have a chance of a medal because of him
3. he's only 24 and can still improve his game
4. he WILL have a better offer from KHL guaranteed
5. he's better than at least two or three goalies in the list
6. he improved every single year since he's in NA
7. he's a pro, works had, never complain, always give credit to his teammates, etc
So what is realistic then?

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Old
02-25-2010, 06:56 AM
  #30
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So his stock went up from beating Sweden
10 year 100 million sounds great to me

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Old
02-25-2010, 07:16 AM
  #31
ECWHSWI
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
So what is realistic then?
I'd say more or less 3M$ depending on lenght of the deal and if he has a REAL shot at becoming #1 on his team.

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02-25-2010, 07:20 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
I'd say more or less 3M$ depending on lenght of the deal and if he has a REAL shot at becoming #1 on his team.
He's gotten a real shot at #1 for most of the year. 3 mil is a bit high, I'd aim for 2.5.

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02-25-2010, 07:38 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
He's gotten a real shot at #1 for most of the year. 3 mil is a bit high, I'd aim for 2.5.
well, wether he's having a shot now is debatable, what is not though is the way he was mishandled the last few years by the Habs Org.

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02-25-2010, 07:54 AM
  #34
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Well, perhaps it sets a high upper bar, anyway. If Halak wins 12-15 games down the stretch and looks good in the playoffs, then I won't mind paying him $3.4M. I wouldn't offer that to him. But if he got it in arbitration or on an offer sheet, I'd be content to keep him at that price, under those circumstances.

But it's just as likely he comes down to earth a bit, splits time with Price, and really, it's hard to justify him getting much more than $2M in those more likely circumstances. He's still probably at the bridge stage. One or two years, *then* he gets the Rinne/Hiller deal. (We hope!).

Our goaltending situation is great these days.

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02-25-2010, 07:58 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I think a fair number would be 5 mil for 2 years for Halak and 3.8 mil for 2 years for Price, cap hit equals to 4.4/year.
This is reasonable, but what has Price done to deserve a dime over a qualifying offer? This is the place in a career that a player usually gets jammed by management (to long be made up for when he becomes a UFA) and this seems like a perfect take-it-or-leave-it scenario. That's the life of a 22 year old backup under control of the club for a few more years.

And let's agree that an outside offer sheet is not likely to happen, because it isn't. They are unlikely and scarce to begin with , but definitely a zero chance option for this age of player and experience level.

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02-25-2010, 08:03 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earl the habs fan View Post
This is reasonable, but what has Price done to deserve a dime over a qualifying offer? This is the place in a career that a player usually gets jammed by management (to long be made up for when he becomes a UFA) and this seems like a perfect take-it-or-leave-it scenario. That's the life of a 22 year old backup under control of the club for a few more years.
He hasn't done anything to get more than his QO (yet), but still we know the Habs and we know the history of Price's coddlement. So I think we might as well go ahead and expect that he will get something more than he deserves. I wish I could pencil him into my budget at $1-1.2M. But I don't believe that. Just like...
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And let's agree that an outside offer sheet is not likely to happen, because it isn't. They are unlikely and scarce to begin with , but definitely a zero chance option for this age of player and experience level.
It's so true, I think there is almost zero chance of an offer sheet. But his agent, other fans, whatever, they will say that's part of his bargaining position. In reality, infinitesimal odds. But we might as well get used to talking about that "possibility" too, as vanishing as it realistically is, since it will constantly be brought up in the discussion anyway.

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02-25-2010, 08:08 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
well, wether he's having a shot now is debatable, what is not though is the way he was mishandled the last few years by the Habs Org.
How has he been mishandled? They traded Huet off a 1st place team to give him a freaking spot in the NHL.

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02-25-2010, 08:12 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earl the habs fan View Post
This is reasonable, but what has Price done to deserve a dime over a qualifying offer? This is the place in a career that a player usually gets jammed by management (to long be made up for when he becomes a UFA) and this seems like a perfect take-it-or-leave-it scenario. That's the life of a 22 year old backup under control of the club for a few more years.

And let's agree that an outside offer sheet is not likely to happen, because it isn't. They are unlikely and scarce to begin with , but definitely a zero chance option for this age of player and experience level.
I think it would be a bad idea to piss off Price and his agent over 1 mil, in 2 years we'll want to sign him to a reasonable contract.

On the contrary, I think if Price reaches the RFA market he'd be a prime candidate for somebody to make an offer for. He has as much ability as any goalie under 25, and he already has most of 3 years NHL experience, in the Montreal fishbowl to boot. If there is a situation tpo add a goalie it's a guy like Price.

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02-25-2010, 08:44 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
It's so true, I think there is almost zero chance of an offer sheet. But his agent, other fans, whatever, they will say that's part of his bargaining position. In reality, infinitesimal odds. But we might as well get used to talking about that "possibility" too, as vanishing as it realistically is, since it will constantly be brought up in the discussion anyway.
The offer sheets are rare and frowned upon by GMs, but some people are also saying that the team has all the power and Halak has to just accept what is offered. A qualifying offer or probably anything under 1.5M will make other teams think very hard. Offer Halak 2M or more and the chance of an offer sheet vanishes.

Anyways, I think Habs should try to sign both goalies to more than one year on trade-friendly contracts. Both look to me like future star goalies and are probably our best assets. One of them gets to be our long-term starting goalie and the other brings us a star skater in a trade next year or year after that.



and either one should be highly tradeable next year or

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02-25-2010, 08:49 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
It's so true, I think there is almost zero chance of an offer sheet. But his agent, other fans, whatever, they will say that's part of his bargaining position. In reality, infinitesimal odds. But we might as well get used to talking about that "possibility" too, as vanishing as it realistically is, since it will constantly be brought up in the discussion anyway.
why do you feel so sure that the offer sheet possibility is so slim?

are you basing that solely on what's happen the past few seasons?

In my eyes, the cap realities are still relatively new to all teams, and every season teams will be looking for different and better ways to make it work in their favor.

to me, if Halak comes back from the Olympics and continues to play at or close to the level he's been at most of this season, any team with a ? in nets, especially those with tighter budgets and/or better records (thus lower draft picks), Halak and Price would be great targets for an offer sheet.

if you're content to keep him at 3.4M$, if necessary, on our team with Price already there as a pretty solid option to move forward with in his own right, don't you think that there are teams out there that would be comfortable going higher than that, if they feel like they don't have a comparable option of their own?
- Philly,
- Washington (depending on how varlamov does down the stretch),
- Chicago,
- SanJose (who may decide to move on from Nabokov if he doesn't step up in the playoffs or if he demands to big of a new deal)...

any one of these 4 teams could find themselves in a situation where offering Halak a multi-year deal averaging out to 3.5-4M$ could make a lot of sense, especially if it only costs them a 1st/3rd in a year where they'd be picking in the mid-late 20's.

the other thing that worries me is the "collateral damage" effect any offer sheet to one of our goalies would have on the other one...

would you really put it past a GM like Burke to tender an offer sheet to Price for 2.5-3M$ (cost = 2nd round pick) if they saw us already fending off an offer on Halak?
if nothing else that would be an easy way to force us into overpaying...

I know that's a little bit conspiracy theory 'ish', but I think it's only a matter of time before we start to see more predatory moves by GM's, aimed not so much to actually get players but with the intention of forcing rival teams into difficult situations.


Given the unique situation, 2 very talented young RFA's competing for the same limited roster spot, I think the way it unfolds has, at the very least, the potential to surprise all of us. I don't think there's ever been a similar situation thus far in the cap era.

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Old
02-25-2010, 08:56 AM
  #41
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Halak's not UFA. 2 mil, maybe a bit more should be enough if it's for a year or two.

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02-25-2010, 09:22 AM
  #42
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Halak's value in September '09: 2.1M$
Halak's value in December '09: 2.5M$
Halak's value before Olympics: 3.0M$
Halak's value after Olympics : 3.5M$
Halak's value on June 30th : 4.0M$
Halak's value on July 10th after receiving a RFA offer sheet: 4.5M$

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02-25-2010, 09:26 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
why do you feel so sure that the offer sheet possibility is so slim?

are you basing that solely on what's happen the past few seasons?
The past few seasons are certainly weighty arguments against the likelihood of offer sheets. If anything, they are probably likely to become entirely extinct altogether after the bad PR that some of them generated. I think the GMs who tried those moves have largely learned from the angst they generated.

But there hasn't been one for a goalie ever (has there?), and I think that even if you saw 1 or 2 per year on other players, it's far less likely to see one on a goalie. Because there are so many goalies available and the demarcation between them is so slim, it's really hard for a team justify making an "overpayment" to get one. That's precisely why the trade market for goalies has always been so stagnant. Teams always have other options. Cheaper options.

I don't see how any of the teams in your list justify the choice of Halak, plus giving him a salary high enough that we wouldn't match, plus giving up at minimum a 1st+3rd round pick. For that matter, some of those teams won't even have the picks to be able to make an offer. Watch which picks go at the deadline. If there are only 3 or 4 teams in the league who arguably could stand for a goalie upgrade, and you knock a couple down for lacking the compensation wherewithal, and then you consider their cap situations, and then you consider the history and political incorrectness of offer sheets... no, its exceedingly unlikely that we have to worry about one.

Of course, if we were worried, we could just go with club-elected arbitration on Halak anyway, and put the final nail in the coffin of that pseudo-threat. We could make it 100% certain that no offer sheets were forthcoming if we really wanted to.
Quote:
would you really put it past a GM like Burke to tender an offer sheet to Price for 2.5-3M$ (cost = 2nd round pick) if they saw us already fending off an offer on Halak?
if nothing else that would be an easy way to force us into overpaying...
No, I couldn't see Burke doing that. Look at how he handled Kessel. He went through the Penner thing. GMs aren't playing those games. He knows we won't let him go for a 2nd round pick, so why bother?

Quote:
I know that's a little bit conspiracy theory 'ish', but I think it's only a matter of time before we start to see more predatory moves by GM's, aimed not so much to actually get players but with the intention of forcing rival teams into difficult situations.
I think that time is over. People talked about it for a few years, it never happened, and now if anything GMs have probably moved closer to the collusion status of past years, they've seen the acrimony generated by the few offer sheets that did take place, and I'll be shocked if we see very many more, ever. Of course, who really knows. But that's what I'd be betting on if I was handling our goalie situation.

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02-25-2010, 09:26 AM
  #44
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you gotta think we have to trade one of these goalies . we are tight against the cap for next year with guys needing big raises . it sucks because we have two good goalies and not sure which one is the future but one needs to be number 1 sooner than later.

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02-25-2010, 09:29 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHLcrazy View Post
Halak's value in September '09: 2.1M$
Halak's value in December '09: 2.5M$
Halak's value before Olympics: 3.0M$
Halak's value after Olympics : 3.5M$
Halak's value on June 30th : 4.0M$
Halak's value on July 10th after receiving a RFA offer sheet: 4.5M$
So would you trade Halak for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd draft pick?

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02-25-2010, 09:37 AM
  #46
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So would you trade Halak for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd draft pick?
Well depends, a 1st, 2nd and 3rd from what team? And also have to consider they are picks from 2011 not 2010.

Would you do it?

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02-25-2010, 09:38 AM
  #47
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How has he been mishandled? They traded Huet off a 1st place team to give him a freaking spot in the NHL.
That's exactly what he means by mishandling. Why rush the guy into the role with the best team in years heading to the playoffs?

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Old
02-25-2010, 09:46 AM
  #48
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That's exactly what he means by mishandling. Why rush the guy into the role with the best team in years heading to the playoffs?
He's not the one that was rushed into a role, Price was. Halak would have been fine as the #2 if we didn't have a 20 year old #1.

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02-25-2010, 09:46 AM
  #49
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i would be looking to trade one of them and try to pick up a top notch prospect like a Parravi Svensson , if you can.

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02-25-2010, 09:56 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by RoyBoyCoy View Post
I'd say 3.8 for Halak
2.4 for Price
If Halak gets that, it means the team is looking at him to be the number 1 goalie for at least two seasons, if I am Price and his agent, I go looking for offer sheets.

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