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Weber and Suter - Untouchable?

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Old
02-24-2010, 06:17 PM
  #1
worstfaceoffmanever
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Weber and Suter - Untouchable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Suter extension?
Can't happen until July of 2011, and Weber can't be extended until July of this year.

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02-24-2010, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Suter extension?
Not for another few years .....Hornqvist is next on the contract clock.

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02-24-2010, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Suter extension?
cant do that until july 2011 at the earliest.....

good thought though...

Hornqvist signing would be about the only other contract related "good thing" that could happen any time soon..

edit: remind self to refresh page before posting....


Last edited by PredsV82: 02-24-2010 at 06:28 PM. Reason: redundant redundancy
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02-24-2010, 06:39 PM
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Hornqvist would be nice, Suter would be a hell of a lot better. Weber....maybe......I know, I know, it's Weber, but still with Ellis, Josi, COR, and Blum in the pipeline. I would be tempted to see if someone were to offer a 4 1st level QO.

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02-24-2010, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Hornqvist would be nice, Suter would be a hell of a lot better.
Then you'll have to settle, because, like the last three posts have said, we can't extend Suter until after next season.

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02-24-2010, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
Then you'll have to settle, because, like the last three posts have said, we can't extend Suter until after next season.
I know. I know. I'm busy learning a new job here, give me a break.

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02-24-2010, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Hornqvist would be nice, Suter would be a hell of a lot better. Weber....maybe......I know, I know, it's Weber, but still with Ellis, Josi, COR, and Blum in the pipeline. I would be tempted to see if someone were to offer a 4 1st level QO.
If we don't offer him something sufficient, you better believe he will get an offer sheet.

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02-24-2010, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Hornqvist would be nice, Suter would be a hell of a lot better. Weber....maybe......I know, I know, it's Weber, but still with Ellis, Josi, COR, and Blum in the pipeline. I would be tempted to see if someone were to offer a 4 1st level QO.
What is a 4 1st level QO? And what are the ramifications of the offer?

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02-24-2010, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCpredator View Post
What is a 4 1st level QO? And what are the ramifications of the offer?
Each year it changes Last year the salary was over $7,533,584 Four first-round choices.

I think Nashville would match but it could be interesting if say Blum, Ellis, Josi, and COR panned out.

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02-24-2010, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Each year it changes Last year the salary was over $7,533,584 Four first-round choices.

I think Nashville would match but it could be interesting if say Blum, Ellis, Josi, and COR panned out.
All 4 that you listed have great potential but none have the size/skill set that Weber possesses and only COR has a shot at being the size of Shea if I'm not mistaken. He is a rare breed and while I had stated I would take Suter over him at this point in their careers and possibly long term, the guy has one thing that Suter doesn't have, game changing ability in the blink of an eye. A big hit or big shot can turn the momentum of a game around.

The other thing about 1st round picks, depending on the team that were to sign Weber would have a lot to do with it. If it's a horrid team, then we have a shot at some top picks which wouldn't suck but we'd also be giving up an elite defenseman for guys that may or may not pan out.

He's not going anywhere though in my mind. Why else would he have signed a 3 year deal that left him as a restricted free agent at the end of his contract? He's going to get big money from us here. Poile knows this, Freeman and Co. knows this as well. It's not a matter of if but when it happens and is announced. I would almost place a bet that when he re-signs after next season, he'll also be announced as the team captain either at the same press conference or at training camp.

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02-24-2010, 10:29 PM
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I keep an open mind. Reality is that Weber and Suter are the two truly untouchables for the Predators. It will take an act of God to get either one fo them. My question is simply, how much is an act of God?

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02-24-2010, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
I keep an open mind. Reality is that Weber and Suter are the two truly untouchables for the Predators. It will take an act of God to get either one fo them. My question is simply, how much is an act of God?
Great question. For the most part, any time you trade an elite player, it usually works out for the team acquiring that player and the team who gets the pieces usually loses. I'm sure there have been times where the team who was losing the best player in the deal does ok but for the most part, it usually does not work out well long term.

I would think you'd have to get a top 4 defenseman, a top 6 forward, if not a top 3 forward in return and possibly a third player in one of those deals.

What would you think we'd need in return to trade either one of them?

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02-24-2010, 11:14 PM
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4 firsts is a lot, sure.

But this isn't a market that has the luxury of waiting for 4 firsts to pan out. This is a market that relies on what Weber does on-ice and the butts he will continue to put in the seats.

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02-25-2010, 03:10 AM
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Weber, Radulov, 1st FOR Malkin

Only half-way realistic deal that could convince us.

Weber @8m and Suter @6.5m is not going to look pretty on our payroll. Especially when you consider they are already playing close to that level, and the team's overall performance is mediocre.

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02-25-2010, 09:04 AM
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No one's untouchable. Someone offers us Radulov, Malkin or Crosby for one of the two and they're gone. It would have to be a heck of a deal.

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02-25-2010, 09:22 AM
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as the hockey wonks love to say, if Gretzky can be traded, anyone can be traded. thats said, I think Poile has planned many of his player moves around Weber and Suters next contracts. I suspect he has an idea of what it will take to keep them and has contingency plans for what to do if he cant.

Weber being an RFA at the end of his deal is huge. Guarantees that if we cant meet his demands we will at least be compensated handsomely. But I fully expect Weber to sign for less with us than he can get on the open market. I think Suter will do the same. but with Suter being a UFA at the end of 2012, if poile cant get him signed to an extension early, then I can see him getting traded.

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02-25-2010, 10:38 AM
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I think you have to sign both to essentially life time deals. Does that take 14, 15, 16 a year dedicated to them both? I don't know......I would go for the long term deal with hopefully lower average, but I would still get it done.....no matter what!

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02-25-2010, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
I think you have to sign both to essentially life time deals. Does that take 14, 15, 16 a year dedicated to them both? I don't know......I would go for the long term deal with hopefully lower average, but I would still get it done.....no matter what!
Im not sure poile would have the ability or authority to sign them to 8-10 year deals like we have seen other players sign but I think if they will give us a "hometown" discount Poile could probably get each of them for 5-6 years.

I think its good that Weber will go first because if he's reasonable then you would think Suter wouldnt be able to ask for more than Weber.

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02-25-2010, 11:21 AM
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We might see a similar situation with their deals kind of like what Detroit has done with Lidstrom, no one makes more than he does and everyone is ok with that. If we can wrap Weber and Suter up for around $6-6.5 million a season, I think we've done very well for ourselves and still leaves us room to keep other players.

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02-25-2010, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Great question. For the most part, any time you trade an elite player, it usually works out for the team acquiring that player and the team who gets the pieces usually loses. I'm sure there have been times where the team who was losing the best player in the deal does ok but for the most part, it usually does not work out well long term.
Example -- the Dallas Cowboys built their team of the 90s based on their trade of Herschel Walker. I know there are big differences between football and hockey, but no one argues that the Cowboys didn't come out on top with that trade.

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02-25-2010, 11:36 AM
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Do income taxes have any effect on whether a player signs with a US team versus a Canadian team? I would think that Canadians pay higher taxes than folks working in the US. And do the Preds reap any benefit from playing in Tennessee where there is no state income tax?

I remember reading that Radulov's salary in Russia was basically tax free. So does 6 million in the US translate to higher take-home pay than 6 million in Canada?

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02-25-2010, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCpredator View Post
Do income taxes have any effect on whether a player signs with a US team versus a Canadian team? I would think that Canadians pay higher taxes than folks working in the US. And do the Preds reap any benefit from playing in Tennessee where there is no state income tax?

I remember reading that Radulov's salary in Russia was basically tax free. So does 6 million in the US translate to higher take-home pay than 6 million in Canada?
I do know that playing in a state with no state income tax is a plus for players. However I seem to remember that there are issues with players paying taxes in the states they play away games in and in canada as well, so it may not affect their entire salary.

Im sure its complicated and I'd hate to have to be the accountant figuring it all out...

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02-25-2010, 12:21 PM
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No one's untouchable. Someone offers us Radulov, Malkin or Crosby for one of the two and they're gone. It would have to be a heck of a deal.
And, of course, I meant Ovechkin and not Radulov.

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02-25-2010, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCpredator View Post
Example -- the Dallas Cowboys built their team of the 90s based on their trade of Herschel Walker. I know there are big differences between football and hockey, but no one argues that the Cowboys didn't come out on top with that trade.
I'm a Cowboys fan so I know that one in detail. It was a great move by Jimmy Johnson coming in to rebuild that team but you have to remember one thing, you have to have someone who can draft players that fit your system. Emmitt was a 1st round pick but he was the 17th overall selection that year, not a top 5 or 10 pick. Alvin Harper was a 1st rounder at number 12 who panned out for them but then left via free agency and could never live up to the hype of having to be a number 1 receiver. Complimented Michael Irvin to a t but didn't have what it takes to be the man. Dixon Edwards and Darren Woodson were both taken in the second rounds of successive drafts at 37 and 38. Woodson is a HOF safety in my book and Edwards was a solid linebacker. Russell Maryland was also gotten from trades from that particular trade as well. Now that's 5 players from drafts that Johnson got in the first two rounds, two of which are HOF's and one was one of the greatest RB's of all time. Only one of those picks was a top 5. Since that trade happened almost 20 years ago, you haven't seen another trade like that because teams were afraid to make a deal and get burned like Minnesota did.

While there are trades like that, realistically, there are way many more trades that favor the other team. The Jumbo Joe trade, the Heatley trade of this year are two that come to mind. Throw in Dan Boyle for SJ and they've added 3 huge pieces while giving up parts. Charles Barkley going to the Suns a few years ago. The Rickey Henderson trade going from the A's to the Yankees was a win for the Yanks.

Then you have a trade like Larry Anderson for Jeff Bagwell. The Bosox needed a reliever and gave up a possible HOF in Bagwell. Anderson was out of the league a year later and Bagwell went on to tear it up in Houston.

I could go back and research deals but I would tend to think that superstars being moved are never a good deal for the team losing them. Heck, just look at the Kovalchuk deal. Think of the players Atlanta has lost in the last few years. Heatley for Hossa so I'll only count one of them, then losing Savard and now Kovalchuk. In addition, they traded a young Braydon Coburn for some Russian defenseman who's name escapes me right now and isn't in the league anymore while Coburn is turning into a decent player. These deals are more of a reflection of the type of franchise Atlanta is and the way Waddell runs his ship which is not very efficient although they may be turning the corner finally. Not really sure but time will tell.

As far as Weber and Suter goes, I think you have two elite defenders about to hit their primes. If we were to trade one, I think you have to get an elite forward in return. If you don't, it's a fail situation for us. Luckily, we have a system with a lot of good to great defensive prospects and by the time they may have to be dealt, we should be filling in the holes filled by a loss of one of these guys. I don't think Poile lets either one walk though. They are his gems and he is pretty stingy when it comes to his home grown products.

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02-25-2010, 02:39 PM
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