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So I did some number crunching...

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Old
02-26-2010, 02:10 PM
  #26
MathMan
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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
That Spacek contract is going to come back to haunt us.
Spacek has kept this team afloat alongside Hamrlik in the absence of Markov and, thereafter, the real Markov. I don't understand all the bile directed his way, but maybe he's the type of player who makes the occasional glaring error that sticks in your mind, and fans are notoriously bad at noticing how, after 5-10 games, it's weird how he's been quietly effective all along in general...

...although I bet he'd look better if they played him on his usual side.

He was a fine signing and his play this season has not changed my mind. And people who think Subban can step in and replace him immediately are crazy. He'll get there, but he needs to cut his teeth on softer minutes for a year or two first. Eating first-pairing minutes is not a trivial task.

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02-26-2010, 02:13 PM
  #27
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Gomez for Horcoff (Edmonton) $5.5 million cap hit, contract 1 year longer than Gomez. Edmonton has more or less said that they want him off of the team and I think Gomez will help their new guys MPS and Eberle adjust to the NHL much better than Horcoff ever could. I'd like for them to throw in Nilsson because I think he could use a change of scenery and he is a cheap body, $2 million cap hit.

Gionta to whoever will take him for prospects or a draft pick or two.

Markov for a couple of good prospects, players or picks.

Depending on Markov's replacement, $7 - $8 million in cap savings.

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02-26-2010, 02:16 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Agalloch View Post
I have somethig like this.

Scott Gomez — $7,357,142
Mike Cammalleri — $6,000,000
Brian Gionta — $5,000,000
Tomas Plekanec — $4,100,000
Andrei Kostitsyn — $3,250,000
Travis Moen — $1,500,000
Benoit Pouliot — $1,000,000
Max Pacioretty — $910,000
Sergei Kostitsyn — $850,000
Ryan White — $850,000
Maxim Lapierre — $800,000
Mathieu Darche — $600,000
Tom Pyatt — $500,000


DEFENSEMEN

Andrei Markov — $5,750,000
Roman Hamrlik — $5,500,000
Jaroslav Spacek — $3,833,333
Hal Gill — $2,250,000
Josh Gorges — $1,100,000
Ryan O'Byrne — $941,666
Mathieu Carle — $500,000

GOALTENDERS

* Carey Price — $2,000,000
* Jaroslav Halak — $2,000,000

BUY OUT

Georges Laraque - $500,000
I doubt you would sign either Halak or Price for $2 million. Teams could sign them for more than that and only give up a 2nd round draft choice. Pouliot could be signed by another team for about $1.5 million and only give up a 3rd round choice.

I think all three of these players will sign for more than you have listed, probably by about $500,000 each.

You may also be optimistic about Pleks signing for $4.1 million. We might need to offer something like $4.5 million to keep him.

Using those numbers, you are at about $59 million with only 22 players, most teams carry 23. You have no breathing room for trades, players being recalled from the minors or a possible decline in the salary cap.

With the 2009-10 set at $56.8 million, a 5% decline would put us offside by $5 million. A 5% increase in the cap would give us enough room to sign that 23rd player and no cushion for anything else.

Salary decisions shouldn't be based on the hope that the cap will rise. Hope is a poor strategy. The team needs to have contingency plans for situation like this.

This is a mess and there aren't too many options to get out of it. Replacing Pleks with a center who earns minimum salary barely gets us under the wire. Gauthier certainly has his work cut out for him and he might have to make some extremely unpopular moves to resolve the situation.

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02-26-2010, 02:18 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Hub City Hab View Post
I doubt you would sign either Halak or Price for $2 million. Teams could sign them for more than that and only give up a 2nd round draft choice. Pouliot could be signed by another team for about $1.5 million and only give up a 3rd round choice.

I think all three of these players will sign for more than you have listed, probably by about $500,000 each.

You may also be optimistic about Pleks signing for $4.1 million. We might need to offer something like $4.5 million to keep him.

Using those numbers, you are at about $59 million with only 22 players, most teams carry 23. You have no breathing room for trades, players being recalled from the minors or a possible decline in the salary cap.

With the 2009-10 set at $56.8 million, a 5% decline would put us offside by $5 million. A 5% increase in the cap would give us enough room to sign that 23rd player and no cushion for anything else.

Salary decisions shouldn't be based on the hope that the cap will rise. Hope is a poor strategy. The team needs to have contingency plans for situation like this.

This is a mess and there aren't too many options to get out of it. Replacing Pleks with a center who earns minimum salary barely gets us under the wire. Gauthier certainly has his work cut out for him and he might have to make some extremely unpopular moves to resolve the situation.


Someone understands the message I was sending out with this thread.

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02-26-2010, 02:35 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Spacek has kept this team afloat alongside Hamrlik in the absence of Markov and, thereafter, the real Markov. I don't understand all the bile directed his way, but maybe he's the type of player who makes the occasional glaring error that sticks in your mind, and fans are notoriously bad at noticing how, after 5-10 games, it's weird how he's been quietly effective all along in general...

...although I bet he'd look better if they played him on his usual side.

He was a fine signing and his play this season has not changed my mind. And people who think Subban can step in and replace him immediately are crazy. He'll get there, but he needs to cut his teeth on softer minutes for a year or two first. Eating first-pairing minutes is not a trivial task.
I don't know why so many on this board want to be apologists for the terrible contracts that burden this team. We have paid too much money, for too long, to players who are too old.

The team has been mediocre at best and we face losing some of our better players (like Plekanec). What will it look like next year or the year after?

It will be interesting to see how Gauthier tries to dig us out of this one.

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02-26-2010, 02:42 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
The weird thing about this, though, is that the Habs have the same 11 players under contract for the same money this year and lo and behold, they managed to ice a full roster. So it's doable.
Yes but Pleks is due to receive a raise and so are the two goaltenders.

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I'm not TOO worried about the salary cap. The case of a GM that has been completely screwed by the cap is the exception rather than the rule so far.
That's because their mistakes have been camouflaged by a steadily rising salary cap.

Quote:

They've done some things they wish they didn't have to do, sure, but I don't think any GM has had to genuinely wreck his team yet.
I would argue that Gainey has done a pretty good job of wrecking this team . JFJ and Cliff Fletcher did a pretty good job of screwing up the Leafs. Bad contracts are the culprit in both cases.

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02-26-2010, 02:51 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by MTLPacman67 View Post
You still haven't fixed the problem.

Unless you're willing to let go Markov and Hamrlik for cap space, only letting go Hamrlik in that summer will only give you sufficient cap space to re-up AK, Pyatt, Kostitsyn (your cap hit is wrong, since it's this year's and he needs to be qualified at least), Pouliot (same thing as SK), Gorges, O'Byrne and Weber. And even then, we might need more cap space.

Now, even if you fill the holes with youngsters, if they bomb, you have NOTHING to replace them with. You can't add a player via trade because you've got no cap space.

The point of my last paragraph (in the OP) is that we should give up Markov, Plekanec and one of our tenders for a return which should look like a young top 4 D, one or 2 young forwards and a plethora of picks.

It really sucks to have to get rid of such players, but that's the only way to work around the heavy contracts while not consistently losing youngsters because we can't re-up them or have to depend on players that might just not be able to play at a high enough level as it is to keep us contending.
"... The point of my last paragraph (in the OP) is that we should give up Markov, Plekanec and..."

Why Markov instead of Hamrlik? Markov is only 31 years old and he will give you 3-5 more years of all star hockey.

As I mentioned here Post #17, if the Canadiens let go Hamrlik and Plekanec, our Habs would have - assuming an upper limit of 56,8M$ - 8M$ of cap space to sign two forwards... hopefully with size!

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02-26-2010, 03:10 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
"... The point of my last paragraph (in the OP) is that we should give up Markov, Plekanec and..."

Why Markov instead of Hamrlik? Markov is only 31 years old and he will give you 3-5 more years of all star hockey.

As I mentioned here Post #17, if the Canadiens let go Hamrlik and Plekanec, our Habs would have - assuming an upper limit of 56,8M$ - 8M$ of cap space to sign two forwards... hopefully with size!
That's this summer.

Next summer we have another bunch of players to re-sign, including Markov, AK, Gorges, O'Byrne, etc.

See where I'm getting at? Unless you've got some cheap assets that clear some serious cap room and make older, more expensive players expendable, we're looking at the same problem each and every summer, except we're losing quality players and replacing them with unproven players that might not be able to play in this league and with no cap space to have some kind of insurance policy.

If we swallow the pill now (say trade Pleks at the trade deadline for top 6 forward prospect and a pick, trade Markov for a young top 4 Dman and a center prospect + one or few picks and trade one of the goalies for a prospect like Beach [for example]). Now you've got some serious cap room cleared and while the team is not as good, you're banking on some of those youngsters to make an immediate impact and start building on that, instead of trying to hold on to everything and end up losing too much, too soon and having nothing to get back on track with except the little big 3 and some decent youngsters.

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02-26-2010, 03:12 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
As I mentioned here Post #17, if the Canadiens let go Hamrlik and Plekanec, our Habs would have - assuming an upper limit of 56,8M$ - 8M$ of cap space to sign two forwards... hopefully with size!
...and a defenseman much like Hamrlik because they'd have only 3 true top-4 D-men who can eat tough minutes.

The Habs can't afford to weaken their blueline, and dealing Hamrlik would pretty much cripple it.

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02-26-2010, 03:21 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by MTLPacman67 View Post
That's this summer.

Next summer we have another bunch of players to re-sign, including Markov, AK, Gorges, O'Byrne, etc.

See where I'm getting at? Unless you've got some cheap assets that clear some serious cap room and make older, more expensive players expendable, we're looking at the same problem each and every summer, except we're losing quality players and replacing them with unproven players that might not be able to play in this league and with no cap space to have some kind of insurance policy.

"Next summer we have another bunch of players to re-sign, including Markov, AK, Gorges, O'Byrne, etc..."

In 2011-12?

(1) All RFAs... I think.

(2) There is no "etc."; your list seems to be complete!

That being mentioned... I somewhat understand and agree with your point of view but I think we have more than enough cheap (cap friendly) assets (Subban, Pacioretty, White, Darche, Lapierre, S. Kostitsyn, Pouliot, Conboy, Weber, Carle, O'Byrne, Halak, Price) to cope with the cap in two years... if we let go Plekenec (I really think we must address our lack of size upfront) and [Hamrlik or Spacek] (to make room for Subban) before July 1st.



PS MTLPacman67, I admit that as soon as I read "Trade Markov", my brain receives the blue screen of death - "Can not compute" - ... so we will have to agree to disagree regarding Markov out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
...and a defenseman much like Hamrlik because they'd have only 3 true top-4 D-men who can eat tough minutes.

The Habs can't afford to weaken their blueline, and dealing Hamrlik would pretty much cripple it.
Hamrlik sure is a force but Spacek was Buf top D a few months ago and he provided us with a solid defensive contribution thus far in 2009-10. Use him on left and I think he will give us a better offensive contribution.

In 2010-11, I would be comfortable with:

Markov - O'Byrne
Spacek - Gorges
Gill - Subban

Bergeron (or someone like him)


... or (if Gauthier can find a taker for Spacek):

Markov - O'Byrne
Hamrlik - Subban
Gill - Gorges

Bergeron


Last edited by Kjell Dahlin: 02-26-2010 at 03:59 PM.
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Old
02-26-2010, 03:30 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
"Next summer we have another bunch of players to re-sign, including Markov, AK, Gorges, O'Byrne, etc..."

In 2011-12?

(1) All RFAs... I think.

(2) There is no "etc."; your list seems to be complete!

That being mentioned... I somewhat understand and agree with your point of view but I think we have more than enough cheap (cap friendly) assets (Subban, Pacioretty, White, Darche, Lapierre, S. Kostitsyn, Pouliot, Conboy, Weber, Carle, O'Byrne, Halak, Price) to cope with the cap in two years... if we let go Plekenec (I really think we must address our lack of size upfront) and [Hamrlik or Spacek] (to make room for Subban) before July 1st.
In the 2011 summer, we have :
Markov (UFA) [+ Hamrlik is he's kept] and all the RFAs (AK, O'B, Gorges, Weber, Maxwell, White, Pacioretty and all the other guys that will have signed 1-year deals this summer)

We won't be able to keep everything intact. Which is why I'd rather take the hit this summer so we can get back to building instead of trying to keep the most of what we have now and just throw some guys in and hope they can make the most of their opportunity.

As for adding players this summer, we can't. Even if we do get rid of Hamrlik and Pleks, we simply can't add any top 6 forwards via FA since it means we'll be in a worst situation in the 2011 summer than we are this summer.

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02-26-2010, 03:32 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by earl the habs fan View Post
I think the situation is in fact worse. You show 11 players under contract, even qualifying the 6 brings you to 17 players. That leaves 6 positions to be filled for a pittance. Yikes.
Exactly and the guys we do have signed are very
mediocre. We have one of the most difficult teams toi improve due to ;ack pf everything.

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02-26-2010, 03:58 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by MTLPacman67 View Post
In the 2011 summer, we have :
Markov (UFA) [+ Hamrlik is he's kept] and all the RFAs (AK, O'B, Gorges, Weber, Maxwell, White, Pacioretty and all the other guys that will have signed 1-year deals this summer)


We won't be able to keep everything intact. Which is why I'd rather take the hit this summer so we can get back to building instead of trying to keep the most of what we have now and just throw some guys in and hope they can make the most of their opportunity.

As for adding players this summer, we can't. Even if we do get rid of Hamrlik and Pleks, we simply can't add any top 6 forwards via FA since it means we'll be in a worst situation in the 2011 summer than we are this summer.
Markov's current cap hit is 5,75M$. If we extend his contract, his cap hit won't increase. We just need to give him two extra years at 1M$ per season à la Zetterberg, Alfredsson, Savard...

If Hamrlik still is with us in the summer of 2011, I am sure that he won't ask 5,5M$!

The rest, from a 2011-12 perspective, all of them, are RFAs... managing RFAs is somewhat "easy" imo... at least while sitting in front of a computer screen!

As for "... we'll be in a worst situation in the 2011 summer than we are this summer.", I don't think we are in such a bad situation regarding the upcoming summer.

With a little bit of imagination (for instance, there are plenty of other scenarios, letting go Hamrlik and Plekanec before July 1st - Post #17), I don't think respecting the cap will be a major issue in 2010-11.

It was just one of many possible scenarios, but I did end up with 8M$ in cap space with only two forwards to sign in my "proposed scenario".

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02-26-2010, 04:03 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
Markov's current cap hit is 5,75M$. If we extend his contract, his cap hit won't increase. We just need to give him two extra years at 1M$ per season à la Zetterberg, Alfredsson, Savard...

If Hamrlik still is with us in the summer of 2011, I am sure that he won't ask 5,5M$!

The rest, from a 2011-12 perspective, all of them, are RFAs... managing RFAs is somewhat "easy" imo... at least while sitting in front of a computer screen!

As for "... we'll be in a worst situation in the 2011 summer than we are this summer.", I don't think we are in such a bad situation regarding the upcoming summer.

With a little bit of imagination (for instance, there are plenty of other scenarios, letting go Hamrlik and Plekanec before July 1st - Post #17), I don't think respecting the cap will be a major issue in 2010-11.

It was just one of many possible scenarios, but I did end up with 8M$ in cap space with only two forwards to sign in my "proposed scenario".
If you let go Hamrlik this summer and sign 2 forwards, you have to let go Markov to re-sign the RFAs. Or trade proven NHL players and put youngsters in.

At some point, there's only so many times you can do this before you realize you have a cellar team.

Heading into the summer, we can't think 'oh we'll drop him and him, sign those guys and we'll have fixed our major problems', because the massive a**reaming coming in the 2011 summer is gonna be much more painful. We need a long term plan that might involve some popular players being shipped out withing the year in order to get this team moving forward instead of stagnating with the tendancy of going downwards.

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02-26-2010, 06:16 PM
  #40
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Stagnation is the problem: as someone pointed out improving the team without a complete overhaul will not be easy.

But for the 2010-2011 salary cap, the only major change you need to do is REPLACE Hamrlik WITH Subban.

FORWARDS (14)
Pouliot (1.00 M) / Gomez (7.357 M) / Gionta (5.00 M)
Cammalleri (6.00 M) / Plekanec (5,00 M) / Kostitsyn, S. (1.00 M)
Darche (0.625 M) / Maxwell (0.85 M) / Kostitsyn, A. (3.25 M)
Moen (1.50 M) / Moore (1.25 M) / Lapierre (0.85 M)
White (0.85 M) / JOURNEYMAN-AHLer (0.70 M)

DEFENSEMEN (7)
Markov (5.75 M) / O'Byrne (0.942 M)
Spacek (3.833 M) / Subban (0.875 M)
Gill (2.25 M) / Gorges (1.10 M)
Bergeron (1.00 M)

GOALTENDERS (2)
Halak (2.50 M)
Price (2.25 M)

BUYOUT
Laraque (0.50 M)

ROSTER:
23;

PAYROLL:
56.23 M

BONUSES:
0.33 M

CAP ROOM:
0.898 M

CONTINGENCY PLAN: RIGHT TO MATCH (Enough $$$ for 1 or 2)
Pouliot: $1,506,716
Kostitsyn, S.: $1,506,716
Price: $3,013,434
Halak: $3,013,434

OTHER
Moore at 1.25 M or Metropolit at 1.25 M (I am guessing they want Moore to be a younger version of Metropolit, can sign both if Maxwell is not ready)

TRADE 2010
Hamrlik, Mara

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02-26-2010, 06:26 PM
  #41
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If AK and SK show some good chemistry with Pleks over the next few weeks, does anyone else think moving Cammalleri would be the best option?

If we move Cammy + Halak/Price, I think we can get back at least top 6 forward and a stud prospect. Somethng like Backes + Pietrangelo maybe? Maybe add Pacioretty and get Berglund too? I don't know, just trying to throw something out there.

EDIT: This also solves our problem the year after, since we can leave Hamrlik go and we would now have suitable replacements (Pietro, Subban)


Last edited by Playmaker09: 02-26-2010 at 06:36 PM.
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02-26-2010, 06:26 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Hfboards2010 View Post
Stagnation is the problem: as someone pointed out improving the team without a complete overhaul will not be easy.

But for the 2010-2011 salary cap, the only major change you need to do is REPLACE Hamrlik WITH Subban
As I've said, that's easy. You can fix next year's problem and ice around the same quality team we've been icing this year by getting rid of Hamrlik.

The problem is you can't retain next year's RFAs and Markov. So basically, the only way to re-up AK, Gorges and O'Byrne (and any RFA that got a 1-year deal this year) is to let Markov go. And you'll have to put either Weber or Carle.

So basically, in the next 2 years, unless some youngsters (especially on D) make some huge strides, this team's ability to compete will drop while not adding any grit.

Therein lies the problem with settling for short-term solutions like dropping a big contract to get through the summer.

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02-26-2010, 06:30 PM
  #43
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Let Pierre Gauthier deal with this.

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02-26-2010, 06:32 PM
  #44
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Let Pierre Gauthier deal with this.
So any trade proposals, draft talk and etc. should not be made on the boards?

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02-26-2010, 06:46 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Hfboards2010 View Post
Stagnation is the problem: as someone pointed out improving the team without a complete overhaul will not be easy.

But for the 2010-2011 salary cap, the only major change you need to do is REPLACE Hamrlik WITH Subban.

FORWARDS (14)
Pouliot (1.00 M) / Gomez (7.357 M) / Gionta (5.00 M)
Cammalleri (6.00 M) / Plekanec (5,00 M) / Kostitsyn, S. (1.00 M)
Darche (0.625 M) / Maxwell (0.85 M) / Kostitsyn, A. (3.25 M)
Moen (1.50 M) / Moore (1.25 M) / Lapierre (0.85 M)
White (0.85 M) / JOURNEYMAN-AHLer (0.70 M)

DEFENSEMEN (7)
Markov (5.75 M) / O'Byrne (0.942 M)
Spacek (3.833 M) / Subban (0.875 M)
Gill (2.25 M) / Gorges (1.10 M)
Bergeron (1.00 M)

GOALTENDERS (2)
Halak (2.50 M)
Price (2.25 M)

BUYOUT
Laraque (0.50 M)

ROSTER:
23;

PAYROLL:
56.23 M

BONUSES:
0.33 M

CAP ROOM:
0.898 M

CONTINGENCY PLAN: RIGHT TO MATCH (Enough $$$ for 1 or 2)
Pouliot: $1,506,716
Kostitsyn, S.: $1,506,716
Price: $3,013,434
Halak: $3,013,434

OTHER
Moore at 1.25 M or Metropolit at 1.25 M (I am guessing they want Moore to be a younger version of Metropolit, can sign both if Maxwell is not ready)

TRADE 2010
Hamrlik, Mara

No way Sergei makes as much as Pouliot. Sergei is not aribtration eligible, and doesn't even have 5 goals! Sergei will be lucky to get a one-way contract and a 10% raise over his current $565k salary.

Plekanec MUST be signed for a lower cap hit, even if the length must be extended. It's time for a Habs GM to do what other teams are doing to work within the cap system.

Use Pyatt as the defensive center instead of Moore and save $700k.

Darche could come $125k cheaper on a one-way.

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02-26-2010, 07:00 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by MTLPacman67 View Post
You still haven't fixed the problem.

Unless you're willing to let go Markov and Hamrlik for cap space, only letting go Hamrlik in that summer will only give you sufficient cap space to re-up AK, Pyatt, Kostitsyn (your cap hit is wrong, since it's this year's and he needs to be qualified at least), Pouliot (same thing as SK), Gorges, O'Byrne and Weber. And even then, we might need more cap space.
AK has 1 year left to his contract no? The team can wait and cross that bridge later.

Hmm I used the capgeek number as is yes. Might need to clear more indeed and this is where I'd sacrifice one goalie for picks, instead of just dumping Hamrlik, Markov or Plek who are cornerstones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTLPacman67 View Post
Now, even if you fill the holes with youngsters, if they bomb, you have NOTHING to replace them with. You can't add a player via trade because you've got no cap space.

The point of my last paragraph (in the OP) is that we should give up Markov, Plekanec and one of our tenders for a return which should look like a young top 4 D, one or 2 young forwards and a plethora of picks.

It really sucks to have to get rid of such players, but that's the only way to work around the heavy contracts while not consistently losing youngsters because we can't re-up them or have to depend on players that might just not be able to play at a high enough level as it is to keep us contending.
Trading for young Ds or forwards is just the same as promoting our own. What if they bomb? I mean the farm is stocked every year with players that can fill in. If we promote some of them, which happens every year, someone has to take their place from within. Otherwise that's pretty big vote of non-confidence right here towards our recruiting system.

So to sum it up I'd rather do some complex salary cap gymnastics to make everyone fit while trading players we can replace from within than solving the issue easily by trading a cornerstone. If that's more than Spacek, Gill & Moen, then so be it. Who else can be replaced without signing a free agent or trading?

Anyways I need to thinker that roster

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02-26-2010, 07:27 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTLPacman67 View Post
(...) So basically, in the next 2 years, unless some youngsters (especially on D) make some huge strides, this team's ability to compete will drop while not adding any grit.

Therein lies the problem with settling for short-term solutions like dropping a big contract to get through the summer.
Again, this team needs a major overhaul to compete for the Stanley Cup. Still, you can keep competing for the 8th place with the current lineup and minor tweaks.


2011 ROSTER
For the 2011-2012 salary cap, the only major change you need to do is trade Moen+Gill (or Spacek)

FORWARDS (14)
Pouliot (1.50 M) [2010, 2011] / Gomez (7.357 M) / Gionta (5.00 M)
Cammalleri (6.00 M) / Plekanec (5,00 M) [Many years] / Kostitsyn, S. (1.25 M) [2010, 2011]
D'Agostini (0.60 M) [2010, 2011] / Maxwell (1.00 M) [2011] / Kostitsyn, A. (4.00 M) [2011]
White (0.80 M) [2011] / Moore (1.25 M) [2010, 2011] / Lapierre (0.85 M) [2010, 2011]
/ Darche (0.625 M) [2010, 2011]

DEFENSEMEN (7)
Markov (6.00 M) [Many years] / O'Byrne (2.75 M) [2011]
Spacek (3.833 M) / Subban (0.875 M)
Gorges (1.75 M) [2011] / Weber (1.10 M) [2011]
Bergeron (1.00 M) [2010, 2011]

GOALTENDERS (2)
Halak (2.50 M)
Price (2.25 M)

BUYOUT
Laraque (0.50 M)

ROSTER:
23

PAYROLL:
58.09 M (NOTE: a 2.5% increase for 2011-2012 over the current cap = 58,22 M)

BONUSES:
0

CAP ROOM:
0.13 M

TRADE 2011
Gill (1 yr left to contract), Moen (1 yr left to contract)

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Old
02-26-2010, 07:32 PM
  #48
Em Ancien
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
AK has 1 year left to his contract no? The team can wait and cross that bridge later.

Hmm I used the capgeek number as is yes. Might need to clear more indeed and this is where I'd sacrifice one goalie for picks, instead of just dumping Hamrlik, Markov or Plek who are cornerstones.
I meant that as next year, not this summer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
Trading for young Ds or forwards is just the same as promoting our own. What if they bomb? I mean the farm is stocked every year with players that can fill in. If we promote some of them, which happens every year, someone has to take their place from within. Otherwise that's pretty big vote of non-confidence right here towards our recruiting system.
Well, it depends what you're trading for. Say you trade Markov for Jack Johnson+. You know he can't really 'bomb' like putting Carle as a regular. He's already an established NHLer. Obviously I don't think you can get an established top 6 youngster with Plekanec, but as long as you're getting a player that you think you can fit in the regular roster at some point in the near future, you're already doubling your chances of finding a cheap replacement (there's more chances of finding a regular amongst 2 prospects than just 1).

Quote:
Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
So to sum it up I'd rather do some complex salary cap gymnastics to make everyone fit while trading players we can replace from within than solving the issue easily by trading a cornerstone. If that's more than Spacek, Gill & Moen, then so be it. Who else can be replaced without signing a free agent or trading?

Anyways I need to thinker that roster
As I said, as you choose to retain certain players, does the team improve? This is where I figure banking on O'Byrne, Gorges, AK, SK, Big Ben, Pacioretty, Subban, Weber...is probably the thing that will cause the downfall of this team. You need those guys to seriously outplay their salary in order to counterbalance the massive cap eating at the top (18+ million to the little big 3). If those 3 were star players, I wouldn't be talking about this. But they pretty much all bring a similar skillset (which includes little board skills, little intimidation ability, little space creating, etc.) and are seriously overpaid as a group.

As for replacing the role players with FAs, I've said this before, we can't. The only reason to dump them is to create cap space to re-sign our players. We can't start signing other players.

My solution to working around this problem is to use some of our best assets (Markov, Plekanec and one of the goalies) to get back young, promising assets that will help this team diversify itself and to start building on something. I'm not saying to aim for the bottom. While those losses are somewhat big, getting some youth, grit and energy in there might be able to keep us afloat in the first year and we can take off from there instead of trying to hold on to everything we have yet find ourselves plugging in players into holes they may not be able to fill and find ourselves rotten at the core, just to see this organization collapse and have to sell assets later on since we'll have bombed a season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hfboards2010 View Post
Again, this team needs a major overhaul to compete for the Stanley Cup. Still, you can keep competing for the 8th place with the current lineup and minor tweaks.


2011 ROSTER
For the 2011-2012 salary cap, the only major change you need to do is trade Moen+Gill (or Spacek)
I know what you're trying to do. But let me explain this : only Spacek and Moore give you cap relief for that summer (maybe Bergeron and Darche), and you can trade a goalie. Now, that probably covers all the RFAs you'll have to sign (considering how many contracts you've allowed to be set up for that summer). So we're lacking players and have little cap space.

Now, let's say you compete for 8th spot all those years until the little big 3's contracts expire. What you end up with unless you've drafted some stud(s) or some kids have exploded is an average roster.

The point for this team is to eventually get back to the top. It probably won't happen that way.


Last edited by Em Ancien: 02-26-2010 at 07:40 PM.
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Old
02-26-2010, 07:35 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
No way Sergei makes as much as Pouliot. Sergei is not aribtration eligible, and doesn't even have 5 goals! Sergei will be lucky to get a one-way contract and a 10% raise over his current $565k salary.

Plekanec MUST be signed for a lower cap hit, even if the length must be extended. It's time for a Habs GM to do what other teams are doing to work within the cap system.

Use Pyatt as the defensive center instead of Moore and save $700k.

Darche could come $125k cheaper on a one-way.
Kostitsyn, S.:
He was showing at 816K on Cap geek, just gave him a reasonable raise. I am fine he makes less.

Plekanec:
I would want to sign him for less. At this point, the question is: will he try the market? I think he can get 5M as a UFA.

Pyatt/Moore:
I agree, but I have not heard of 4th liner rental that often. I would think they may want to keep him.

Darche:
Again, I agree. Just trying to put something reasonable and see how it looks vs cap.

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Old
02-26-2010, 08:00 PM
  #50
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I have a feeling Spacek will get moved after this season, or at least a d that gets paid a lot. They're going to probably want a true right D and we have tons of RD depth in the AHL just waiting to make the jump. (Subban, Weber, Carle, one likely to be made part of a package too, probably Carle or Weber)

The way I see it, that will free up minimum 3.8 mil of cap space. I don't want to say Markov, but imo it could happen. (Unfortunate imo if it did)

Regardless though I think they will re-sign Pleks, and it will be as a direct result of making some cap space.

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