HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > International Tournaments
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Crosby's Olympic performance

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-27-2010, 06:40 PM
  #201
bumperkisser
Registered User
 
bumperkisser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,913
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundface View Post
I agree with everything you have said except this part. When he first broke into the league he was creating chances himself, and for parts of this season he has finally shown that killer instinct again. But now that he is with good players, he has been over passing in a big way.

I played hockey for a long time and at a good level, and I HATE seeing people waste chances by shooting when they have players open. I'm all for passing to players for empty netters or when they are in a better position then you.

However Crosby has been forcing passes and plays. Take the 2-1 last night with Staal. He had the defensemen backing up towards Staal, and he fired a bullet pass that Staal had almost no chance of getting to. He should have continued with it and gone 1 on 1 with the goalie and deked him, or slid it over to Staal if the defencemen tried to cut down his space.

He has been very average in this tournament, and he could be doing alot more than he is. He has been held pointless in Canada's 2 biggest games, and wasn't within the top 5 players on his team in those games. Players who had more of an impact than him include Keith, Weber, Toews, Morrow, Getslaf, Perry, Neidermeyer, Boyle, Nash and there might be a few others.

He has not been bad, but he hasn't been very effective. If Canada wants to win tomorrow, their best players need to be exactly that. And Crosby is definitely Canada's best.
it just seems like his timing and decision making is off.. sometimes he'd be TOO selfish and try and bust through 2 d-man.. and then sometimes when he SHOULD be selfish i.e the 2 on 1 you just talked bout.. he tried to force the pass..

I'm not saying hes been BAD im just saying hes been average.. hes not exactly hurting the team because he hasnt had too many dumb turnovers or anything

bumperkisser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2010, 06:40 PM
  #202
MattBradleyKO
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,307
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
He has scored in every close game including a game winner. He has also played great defense in every game. I guess he is suppose to cheat up ice and try to stack his stats against Germany instead.
he was terrible against the Swiss, but luckily for him international rules allow for repeat shooters. He wasn't good against the US either. He's had opportunities to score (the Nash penalty shot and a wide open breakaway against Russia come to mind) but hasn't capitalized. Saying he's played "great defense" is simply delusional. He hasn't been a top 6 forward for Canada. Saying this doesn't mean he's not a great player, it's just the truth.

MattBradleyKO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2010, 06:50 PM
  #203
eXile59
Shirts on.
 
eXile59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 17,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBradleyKO View Post
he was terrible against the Swiss, but luckily for him international rules allow for repeat shooters. He wasn't good against the US either. He's had opportunities to score (the Nash penalty shot and a wide open breakaway against Russia come to mind) but hasn't capitalized. Saying he's played "great defense" is simply delusional. He hasn't been a top 6 forward for Canada. Saying this doesn't mean he's not a great player, it's just the truth.
Since your such a die hard Ovechkin fan I can see why you don't know good defense from not but let me help you. When he is stealing the puck from the opposition behind his own goal line I on a consistent basis I consider that good defense. You hate everything Crosby so its understandable you don't see that kind of stuff.

As for his offensive game your absolutely right. I think Canada expected a little bit more out of him in clutch situations but that doesn't mean he useless to the team. If you like it or not those are the rules to a shutout and Sid took advantage of it.

He isn't living up to expectations but that hasn't stopped his team from taking home the Silver.

eXile59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2010, 06:54 PM
  #204
fly4apuckguy
Mr. Old School
 
fly4apuckguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,727
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
Since your such a die hard Ovechkin fan I can see why you don't know good defense from not but let me help you. When he is stealing the puck from the opposition behind his own goal line I on a consistent basis I consider that good defense. You hate everything Crosby so its understandable you don't see that kind of stuff.

As for his offensive game your absolutely right. I think Canada expected a little bit more out of him in clutch situations but that doesn't mean he useless to the team. If you like it or not those are the rules to a shutout and Sid took advantage of it.

He isn't living up to expectations but that hasn't stopped his team from taking home the Silver.
Well played.

fly4apuckguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2010, 06:56 PM
  #205
bumperkisser
Registered User
 
bumperkisser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,913
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
Since your such a die hard Ovechkin fan I can see why you don't know good defense from not but let me help you. When he is stealing the puck from the opposition behind his own goal line I on a consistent basis I consider that good defense. You hate everything Crosby so its understandable you don't see that kind of stuff.

As for his offensive game your absolutely right. I think Canada expected a little bit more out of him in clutch situations but that doesn't mean he useless to the team. If you like it or not those are the rules to a shutout and Sid took advantage of it.

He isn't living up to expectations but that hasn't stopped his team from taking home the Silver.
i see what you did there...

bumperkisser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2010, 12:29 AM
  #206
Warm Cookies
The Dynamic Duo
 
Warm Cookies's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 48,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBradleyKO View Post
It doesn't at all. I've got no problem saying Ovie wasn't good either, but you won't see me coming up with some weak ass excuse like "well he contributed by drawing the other team's top defensive pairing!" So many of you guys have created a no-lose situation here. If Crosby doesn't produce then "you need to actually watch the games, he's been great, don't just look at the stat sheet" which would maybe be ok if I didn't watch every game and notice he's been missing. If he doesn't produce then "Staal and Iginla haven't been finishing their chances", or "he still contributes defensively" (even though his defensive play has been lacking). When that fails you guys turn to the "well he draws the top defensive pairings freeing up our other lines...what a player!" Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin have all been very average this entire tournament, just own up to it.
I think people have been very measured in their praise of Crosby in this thread, on the whole. He's had a couple lapses, but he's also had some big production in critical moments (shootout win over Swiss, putting Canada within one against the US), he's been very good in face-offs and board battles, and he's diligent in his defensive duties.

He's been off his regular production pace and a big reason for that isn't his linemates, but his reaction to linemates. He's simply deferring too much to them, and he could absolutely be better in that regard. He could be much more efficient and effective in the offensive zone.

BUT...

To say this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBradleyKO View Post
Crosby has been a non-factor the entire tournament
...is ridiculous. The leading Canadian scorer has 7 points, and Crosby has 6. The leading Canadian in faceoffs is at 65%, Crosby's at 64%.

And when Igor Larionov says:

Quote:
Sidney Crosby...toiled everywhere, in all three zones, which is why he is the pride of Canada.
You can be pretty sure you're getting an unbiased opinion from a formidable hockey mind. Just because someone isn't performing great doesn't mean they're not performing well, never mind being a "non factor the entire tournament".

Warm Cookies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2010, 12:33 AM
  #207
Sidney the Kidney
We got Kessel?!
 
Sidney the Kidney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,965
vCash: 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post

And when Igor Larionov says:

You can be pretty sure you're getting an unbiased opinion from a formidable hockey mind. But feel free to disagree.
Come on, now. You're going to take a retired, washed up old fossil's opinion over a poster on here who has a history of showing up in threads to bash Crosby? It's clearly obvious which one of the two has a better ability to assess things not seen on the score sheet. Quote Larionov all you want. The only thing that matters is MattBradleyKO has watched every game.


Last edited by Sidney the Kidney: 02-28-2010 at 12:39 AM.
Sidney the Kidney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2010, 01:26 AM
  #208
MattBradleyKO
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,307
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
...is ridiculous. The leading Canadian scorer has 7 points, and Crosby has 6. The leading Canadian in faceoffs is at 65%, Crosby's at 64%.
What happened to not just reading the stat sheet? Players are adjudged on different scales, and for Crosby he's been a non-impact player for the tournament. You can toil all you want, but that doesn't mean you're actually performing well. I toiled my ass off in Calculus classes, but I was terrible

MattBradleyKO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2010, 01:36 AM
  #209
NeilYoung
Registered User
 
NeilYoung's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,942
vCash: 500
At the start of the tournament I though Crosby Malkin and Ovi were gonna rip it up, I was most definetly wrong Olympic hockeys different and when your on a team as deep Canada and Russia(offensively) your not counted on as much your not the only star, your role changes
for example say Crosbys coming in by himself on two d men in the olympics he`d probably dump it in and get a quick change in Pittsburgh he might try to beat the d men for a scoring chance
and for an ovechkin example he was used sometimes on the pp infront of the net instead of on the point
Point is Olympics is different and no one on deep Olympic teams is going to be putting up much over a point a game

NeilYoung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2010, 02:02 AM
  #210
TheReaper
Registered User
 
TheReaper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Glasgow
Country: Brazil
Posts: 4,271
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBradleyKO View Post
What happened to not just reading the stat sheet? Players are adjudged on different scales, and for Crosby he's been a non-impact player for the tournament. You can toil all you want, but that doesn't mean you're actually performing well. I toiled my ass off in Calculus classes, but I was terrible
One of the biggest Crosby bashers in the forums is here bashing Crosby? What a surprise!! Your opinion is so biased that unless Crosby scores a hat trick you are not gonna say anything good about him.
So, if you take Crosby out of the team Canada would be in the final? No. He hasn't played like people expected him to, but he hasn't played bad. He's winning nearly all battles around the boards, is creating chances and has been strong in the circle. He has been good so far. Up to his standards? Probably not, but non-impact? Don't be silly.

TheReaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2010, 02:04 AM
  #211
MattBradleyKO
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,307
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReaper View Post
One of the biggest Crosby bashers in the forums is here bashing Crosby? What a surprise!! Your opinion is so biased that unless Crosby scores a hat trick you are not gonna say anything good about him.
So, if you take Crosby out of the team Canada would be in the final? No. He hasn't played like people expected him to, but he hasn't played bad. He's winning nearly all battles around the boards, is creating chances and has been strong in the circle. He has been good so far. Up to his standards? Probably not, but non-impact? Don't be silly.
take Crosby out and replace him with any number of other Canadian centers and Canada is still in the Gold Medal game.

MattBradleyKO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2010, 02:53 AM
  #212
Ragamuffin Gunner
Lost in The Flood
 
Ragamuffin Gunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 18,312
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBradleyKO View Post
What happened to not just reading the stat sheet? Players are adjudged on different scales, and for Crosby he's been a non-impact player for the tournament. You can toil all you want, but that doesn't mean you're actually performing well. I toiled my ass off in Calculus classes, but I was terrible
I think that after watching the Caps so much you've forgotten (if you ever knew) the importance of players toiling in all three zones.

Wanna know why it seemed like Russia never had the puck? It's because players like Crosby toiled in the rough areas of the ice and won the puck battles.

Wanna know why the high-powered Russian offense only scored 2 even strength goals? It's because players like Crosby toiled in the defensive zone and busted their ***** to get into their defensive zone to stop Russia's offensive rushes.

Wanna know why Russia allowed 6 even strength goals? It's because players like Ovechkin hung out at Canada's blue line while they went in on odd-man rush after odd-man rush.


Unlike some players, even when Crosby is not putting points on the score sheet he is doing all of the little things that help his team win.

Ragamuffin Gunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2010, 02:57 AM
  #213
PoutineSp00nZ
Beat that $%^& Bryan
 
PoutineSp00nZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASV 27 View Post
I think that after watching the Caps so much you've forgotten (if you ever knew) the importance of players toiling in all three zones.

Wanna know why it seemed like Russia never had the puck? It's because players like Crosby toiled in the rough areas of the ice and won the puck battles.

Wanna know why the high-powered Russian offense only scored 2 even strength goals? It's because players like Crosby toiled in the defensive zone and busted their ***** to get into their defensive zone to stop Russia's offensive rushes.

Wanna know why Russia allowed 6 even strength goals? It's because players like Ovechkin hung out at Canada's blue line while they went in on odd-man rush after odd-man rush.


Unlike some players, even when Crosby is not putting points on the score sheet he is doing all of the little things that help his team win.
I agree with everything you posted. I'm not a huge Crosby fan but he is one of, if not the most complete player in the tournament. He has the skill to score and set up plays, but he has the where-with-all to be effective anywhere on the ice.

He's been one of Canada's better players. It would be nice to see him elevate his game tonight, the true mark of an elite talent.

We shall see.

PoutineSp00nZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2010, 03:04 AM
  #214
son of earl
Registered User
 
son of earl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: So cali
Posts: 1,013
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to son of earl
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas1235 View Post
He's 22 years old. It's very tough for young players to make an impression at the biggest stage in hockey against veteran teams.

Where was Ovechkin or Malkin in this tournament?

Gretzky has his first great international tournament in 1987. He was 25 I believe.

Patience is needed for young players at this big of a level.
What about Doughty? He is only 20 and has been one of the best Defense men on Canada

son of earl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2010, 03:15 AM
  #215
dahlenrules
Registered User
 
dahlenrules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,108
vCash: 500
He's been ok but nothing great. As much as I hate him tonight is his chance to redeem himself a lot.

dahlenrules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2010, 03:34 AM
  #216
JamieG
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 871
vCash: 500
Quote:
It doesn't at all. I've got no problem saying Ovie wasn't good either, but you won't see me coming up with some weak ass excuse like "well he contributed by drawing the other team's top defensive pairing!" So many of you guys have created a no-lose situation here. If Crosby doesn't produce then "you need to actually watch the games, he's been great, don't just look at the stat sheet" which would maybe be ok if I didn't watch every game and notice he's been missing. If he doesn't produce then "Staal and Iginla haven't been finishing their chances", or "he still contributes defensively" (even though his defensive play has been lacking). When that fails you guys turn to the "well he draws the top defensive pairings freeing up our other lines...what a player!" Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin have all been very average this entire tournament, just own up to it.
I couldn't care less what NHL team you cheer for, everything you've said in this thread has been right on the money.

It's interesting to see the shift among automatic Crosby supporters in this thread. They started out by saying "he's playing great, you can't look at the stat sheet!" Then they switched to "Look at the stats! He has points!" He got what, 3 points against Norway? And they count his shootout goal which he got the chance to shoot twice as a goal? As others have said - watch the games - don't simply look at the stats.

He's been very average although I did feel he played well against USA, but shoddy defensively and ineffective in the elimination games. I expected more from him to this point.

JamieG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2010, 03:49 AM
  #217
lastcupever75
Philip thenet Kessel
 
lastcupever75's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,891
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBradleyKO View Post
What happened to not just reading the stat sheet? Players are adjudged on different scales, and for Crosby he's been a non-impact player for the tournament. You can toil all you want, but that doesn't mean you're actually performing well. I toiled my ass off in Calculus classes, but I was terrible
you also toil around HF boards and are terrible posting on those as well

lastcupever75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2010, 07:48 AM
  #218
Dangler99*
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,302
vCash: 500
People keep bashing Crosby but it's funny cause every team he is on makes it to the finals and Wins Championships.

Dangler99* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2010, 08:09 AM
  #219
Shwag33
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,790
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBradleyKO View Post
So the "linemates" excuse is STILL being used, despite having all-stars on both sides of him? Simply unreal. Crosby has been a non-factor the entire tournament, but luckily Canada's stacked so noone seems to be noticing (or talking about it...)


Have you watched the games? Staal missed two wide open nets setup by crosby in the slovakia game. Iginla has missed a few great oppurtunities... go back and watch the games again.

Shwag33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2010, 09:08 AM
  #220
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 18,429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBradleyKO View Post
What happened to not just reading the stat sheet? Players are adjudged on different scales, and for Crosby he's been a non-impact player for the tournament. You can toil all you want, but that doesn't mean you're actually performing well. I toiled my ass off in Calculus classes, but I was terrible
Let's just call a spade a spade...

You are constantly looking for ways to bash Crosby, but the little ***** went and won the Cup last season and along the way has turned himself into the most complete player in the game. Now the haters gotta really reach deep to find something criticize, but you won't let facts and reality slow your roll.

Hells no, you soldier on, soldier. Always finding new and delusional ways to bash Crosby.

Now your hero didn't show up at the Olympics, (sweet skates though, right?) and you are burning up about it. Then suddenly you see a post about Crosby's performance in the Olympics and figure you can troll the thread to make yourself feel better...

Am I close? Ya I don't even have to ask because we both know I'm right.

Crosby troll... Larionov's educated opinion... Crosby troll... Larionov's educated opinion... I just can't decide which opinion carries more weight...

Mr Jiggyfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2010, 09:32 AM
  #221
jmelm
HFBoards Sponsor
 
jmelm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,856
vCash: 500
Well, just like Malkin, Crosby definitely doesn't deserve to be in the "Big 3".





jmelm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2010, 09:38 AM
  #222
Warm Cookies
The Dynamic Duo
 
Warm Cookies's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 48,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBradleyKO View Post
What happened to not just reading the stat sheet? Players are adjudged on different scales, and for Crosby he's been a non-impact player for the tournament.
The stats are merely support for the educated opinions that you want to dismiss. Crosby hasn't been a game-breaker so far this tournament, but he's certainly been a big positive for the team overall in spite of his failure to find a groove with his linemates.

Quote:
You can toil all you want, but that doesn't mean you're actually performing well. I toiled my ass off in Calculus classes, but I was terrible
When combined with the "pride of Canada" comment, it's pretty easy to make out the context if one isn't being willfully ignorant. And it's not "he tried really hard, so I'm giving him a gold star".

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBradleyKO View Post
take Crosby out and replace him with any number of other Canadian centers and Canada is still in the Gold Medal game.


Well, it's awful easy to speculate when there's no way to disprove you, isn't it?

Warm Cookies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2010, 09:39 AM
  #223
TravisUlrich
Eternal Optimist
 
TravisUlrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,388
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
Let's just call a spade a spade...

You are constantly looking for ways to bash Crosby, but the little ***** went and won the Cup last season and along the way has turned himself into the most complete player in the game. Now the haters gotta really reach deep to find something criticize, but you won't let facts and reality slow your roll.

Hells no, you soldier on, soldier. Always finding new and delusional ways to bash Crosby.

Now your hero didn't show up at the Olympics, (sweet skates though, right?) and you are burning up about it. Then suddenly you see a post about Crosby's performance in the Olympics and figure you can troll the thread to make yourself feel better...

Am I close? Ya I don't even have to ask because we both know I'm right.

Crosby troll... Larionov's educated opinion... Crosby troll... Larionov's educated opinion... I just can't decide which opinion carries more weight...
This! OMG!

TravisUlrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2010, 10:01 AM
  #224
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 18,429
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
The stats are merely support for the educated opinions that you want to dismiss. Crosby hasn't been a game-breaker so far this tournament, but he's certainly been a big positive for the team overall in spite of his failure to find a groove with his linemates.
People who expect Crosby to put up 2-3 points a game aren't being realistic. This isn't an All-Star game.

People are forgetting that chemistry takes time... Crosby and Hossa took almost a 7-10 games before they looked good together. Then they were dominant as hell.

Getzlaf and Perry already have that chemistry...

Thornton, Marleau and Heatley already have that chemistry...

Not only that, but those lines get to play agt. the weaker pairings as well.

Crosby, Iggy and Staal have to play agt. the top pairings and have never played together before. But they are still generating great chances and cycling the puck well. If they had the benefit of abusing third and fourth liners, I'm sure their stats would be off the charts. But it isn't about stats, it is about each line having a role and the trickle down effect that allows a deep team like Canada to wear you down with their depth.

All this nonsense about Crosby having to "prove" himself in the gold game is ridiculous. He has done his job and so have his teammates. That is why it is called Team Canada, not Team Crosby.


Last edited by Mr Jiggyfly: 02-28-2010 at 10:18 AM.
Mr Jiggyfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2010, 10:40 AM
  #225
drew1234
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 403
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by son of earl View Post
What about Doughty? He is only 20 and has been one of the best Defense men on Canada
he was -2 last game, and was on the ice at the end where demitra almost scored. that was his man.

played terrible in the last 10 minutes.

drew1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:43 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.