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Gap Control - Defending Against Fast Forwards

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Old
02-26-2010, 05:17 PM
  #26
Dreakmur
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Originally Posted by Steelhead16 View Post
You contradict yourself on these two points. And if you are slow of foot your second point is correct. And if you are fleet of foot your second point is also correct.

If you want to be a more productive defenseman, play it offensively. Make the puck carrier do what you want him to do and you won't get caught guessing. Especially in lower skilled leagues. Take away what the puck carrier wants to do and force him to do what he doesn't want to do. In most cases that will be forcing them to their backhand. The puck carrier is coming down the ice with 4 or 5 options and waiting for what he is going to do is going to let them pick their best option. Take the best options away and improve your odds on making a good play. You are correct that players panic, but most of them only if you make them panic. Skating backwards and watching them will not make them panic. At the blue line make them do something!!!
There's no contradiction. Maintaining your angle is paramount. Being agressive is great, but if you don't have the proper angle, it's just going to backfire.

As you said, backing up doesn't force the play, but as long as you maintain your angle, you won't get beat. As a coach, I will tell you that getting defensemen to keep tight gaps and be aggressive in the neutral zone is the hardest thing to instill in young players. To be aggressive, you can't be affraid to be beat, and that takes a lot of time and patience.

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Old
02-26-2010, 05:44 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post

Not sure I'm with you on this one. Why wouldn't you you use your stick to full advantage? I'm not talking big sweep checks or lunging pokechecks.... just a flick of that wrist and toss that stick out a little bit.

Throw that stick out a few times. You don't need to look at the puck, and you don't even need to aim at the puck. Forwards will see that pokecheck coming and make a move to avoid it. You could make a the check, which is great. Even if you miss the check, you could cause him to fumble the puck, which is great. Even if he didn't fumble it, he has to slow down as well as look down, which is great.

The vast majority of players cannot play under pressure - they panic easilty. Even a feigned pokecheck throws some people right off. Even if it only works 1 in 10 times, there's no downside.
I'm not saying to avoid using a pokecheck, I'm saying to focus on and trust your gap and wait until the forward is forced to make the puck vulnerable due to his diminishing options. When he tries to escape the gap/angle and move the puck elsewhere, you will be able to knock the puck off his stick 10 in 10 times.


It's simply not worth the sacrifice you are making mathematically/geometrically the 9 times that your tactic doesn't work.

You are making things easy on the forward if you initiate the poke check because you would be doing so prior to your ideal gap being initiated, you are doing him a favor by forcing him to make a move before the odds have peaked in your favor. (once your gap is locked on, you shouldn't be in a position to poke check, the puck should be in a neutral position between your feet and his feet, or better yet he's already started protecting it/telling his angle)

Keep in mind we are talking about fundamentals in an ideal situation/basic principles/approaches to think by. Obviously there will be plenty of times throughout a game where you won't have the ideal angle and a poke check might be your best option, to diffuse the situation before it gets worse.

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02-26-2010, 06:45 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by vladdy16 View Post
I'm not saying to avoid using a pokecheck, I'm saying to focus on and trust your gap and wait until the forward is forced to make the puck vulnerable due to his diminishing options. When he tries to escape the gap/angle and move the puck elsewhere, you will be able to knock the puck off his stick 10 in 10 times.


It's simply not worth the sacrifice you are making mathematically/geometrically the 9 times that your tactic doesn't work.

You are making things easy on the forward if you initiate the poke check because you would be doing so prior to your ideal gap being initiated, you are doing him a favor by forcing him to make a move before the odds have peaked in your favor. (once your gap is locked on, you shouldn't be in a position to poke check, the puck should be in a neutral position between your feet and his feet, or better yet he's already started protecting it/telling his angle)

Keep in mind we are talking about fundamentals in an ideal situation/basic principles/approaches to think by. Obviously there will be plenty of times throughout a game where you won't have the ideal angle and a poke check might be your best option, to diffuse the situation before it gets worse.
We'll just have to agree to disagree then. I've always had my defensemen play body on body and stick on stick. Use your body to stop him from skating where he wants to skate, and use your stick to stop him from putting the puck where he wants to put it.

Using a pokecheck doesn't eliminate your other options. If it does, you're doing it wrong.

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02-26-2010, 07:38 PM
  #29
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As a career lifer in houseleague, my advice should be taken lightly as I play at a really low level, but by continually picking up new things and adding new tricks to my defensive arsenal, I've gone from a brutal houseleague player to one who can shut down top forwards with little difficulty.

I'm a strict stay at home defenseman so I've always played cautiously. I hated hockey when I started, and neglected my skills, so foot speed, and stick skills are lacking (goes along way in explaining my level of play), however I find it is very easy to overcome at my level.

Since a lot of guys cherry pick in house league, I'm constantly backing off the blue line to keep them in check. The most important thing I can suggest is making sure that you never stop moving on the blue line, especially if foot speed is a problem. Always move around the blue line with the play, watching it and seeing it develop, and if the other team is trying a long pass, turn around and speed up, or if they're breaking out get moving.

I've always had a heck of a time with forcing guys into making plays at the blue line. At my level I've found it's simply too much of a risk because of a lack of puck support from my teammates. Unless I've got the right gap on the guy, I'll usually give him the blue line, but after that he's fair game. Once he's in the zone, I either maintain position and make sure he goes around on the outside, or get ready for him to pass or cut to the middle, at which point it's pokechecking, or trying the guy up (no body contact unfortunately...). Just make sure you have good body position, you watch his chest/hips, and if he makes a move to the inside, don't go full in on the pokecheck, because some attackers will expect it and go right around you (fishing). Pick your spots.

Also, don't feel pressured to make a play in every situation. Sometimes, the best play is simply to maintain body position and gap control and let the forward do his thing. Often times guys will just go for the big shot that the goalie easily snags.

It has already been mentioned in this thread, don't be afraid to be beaten in a game. At lower levels of hockey, goals come in bunches, and it's going to happen. Sometimes I'll go three-four games without giving up a goal against on defense, sometimes I'll be on for all of them (last week I was on for all five goals against in my team's 5-3 loss). It isn't necessarily the number of goals conceded that matter, but rather how well you play. You can play well defensively and still give up a lot of goals, that's how it works. If you're slumping, or having a rough game, just get a little angry at the puck. Make the forward fight hard for every inch, and make sure he knows that, even if he's better than you are, that it's going to take a good move to get around you.

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Old
02-26-2010, 09:28 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by PensFan101 View Post
As a career lifer in houseleague, my advice should be taken lightly as I play at a really low level, but by continually picking up new things and adding new tricks to my defensive arsenal, I've gone from a brutal houseleague player to one who can shut down top forwards with little difficulty.

I'm a strict stay at home defenseman so I've always played cautiously. I hated hockey when I started, and neglected my skills, so foot speed, and stick skills are lacking (goes along way in explaining my level of play), however I find it is very easy to overcome at my level.

Since a lot of guys cherry pick in house league, I'm constantly backing off the blue line to keep them in check. The most important thing I can suggest is making sure that you never stop moving on the blue line, especially if foot speed is a problem. Always move around the blue line with the play, watching it and seeing it develop, and if the other team is trying a long pass, turn around and speed up, or if they're breaking out get moving.

I've always had a heck of a time with forcing guys into making plays at the blue line. At my level I've found it's simply too much of a risk because of a lack of puck support from my teammates. Unless I've got the right gap on the guy, I'll usually give him the blue line, but after that he's fair game. Once he's in the zone, I either maintain position and make sure he goes around on the outside, or get ready for him to pass or cut to the middle, at which point it's pokechecking, or trying the guy up (no body contact unfortunately...). Just make sure you have good body position, you watch his chest/hips, and if he makes a move to the inside, don't go full in on the pokecheck, because some attackers will expect it and go right around you (fishing). Pick your spots.

Also, don't feel pressured to make a play in every situation. Sometimes, the best play is simply to maintain body position and gap control and let the forward do his thing. Often times guys will just go for the big shot that the goalie easily snags.

It has already been mentioned in this thread, don't be afraid to be beaten in a game. At lower levels of hockey, goals come in bunches, and it's going to happen. Sometimes I'll go three-four games without giving up a goal against on defense, sometimes I'll be on for all of them (last week I was on for all five goals against in my team's 5-3 loss). It isn't necessarily the number of goals conceded that matter, but rather how well you play. You can play well defensively and still give up a lot of goals, that's how it works. If you're slumping, or having a rough game, just get a little angry at the puck. Make the forward fight hard for every inch, and make sure he knows that, even if he's better than you are, that it's going to take a good move to get around you.
Yep men's leagues for beer bellied duffers or even more serious men's leagues do score a lot of goals somwtimes seeing a 13 to 11 game. You know ... because forwards backcheck all the time and don't float lmao!

I play D and like it and accept what it is in a "gentlemen's beer league".

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02-28-2010, 11:07 PM
  #31
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Lots of good advice here. I think I have to be a little more aggressive than I am. However, watching my teammates and also defenders on other beer league teams, I notice that a lot of guys back waaaay up and let the forward come all the way up into the circles before pressuring them. I'm always hearing guys on the bench yelling "step up, step up". I think it's an epidemic.

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03-01-2010, 01:46 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
As a coach, I will tell you that getting defensemen to keep tight gaps and be aggressive in the neutral zone is the hardest thing to instill in young players.
I've always felt like the only players who are afraid to make those mistakes are the ones who are prone to making them (which is the obvious part) and the ones who are prone to making them are the one who aren't quick enough on their feet. I was always quick on my feet, and yes I've made the wrong call at times and gotten beaten. But that confidence of being able to play aggressive only comes if you have enough confidence in your skating.

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03-01-2010, 09:54 AM
  #33
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I've always felt like the only players who are afraid to make those mistakes are the ones who are prone to making them (which is the obvious part) and the ones who are prone to making them are the one who aren't quick enough on their feet. I was always quick on my feet, and yes I've made the wrong call at times and gotten beaten. But that confidence of being able to play aggressive only comes if you have enough confidence in your skating.
It's a bit of a chicken and egg thing; you have to have confidence to make plays, but the only way to gain that confidence is to go for the play in the first place.

I once had a guy on my team who, while very athletic (pro body builder), was new to skating. He went to a few clinics though and really put in the time every week, getting a little better each time. After a few weeks he was stepping up and challenging shooters. I'd watch him from the bench thinking "oh no, here we go..." only to see him strip the forward of the puck by aggressively moving in on him. Good for him. Once in a while he got burned, but hey, you live by the sword you die by the sword.

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03-01-2010, 01:14 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by canuck44 View Post
I've always felt like the only players who are afraid to make those mistakes are the ones who are prone to making them (which is the obvious part) and the ones who are prone to making them are the one who aren't quick enough on their feet. I was always quick on my feet, and yes I've made the wrong call at times and gotten beaten. But that confidence of being able to play aggressive only comes if you have enough confidence in your skating.
Actually, the guys who are steping up and getting beat that aren't affraid to make the mistake. It's the guys who back up untill they run into their goalies that are affraid to make a mistake.

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03-01-2010, 03:47 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by TheSandman View Post
It's a bit of a chicken and egg thing; you have to have confidence to make plays, but the only way to gain that confidence is to go for the play in the first place.

I once had a guy on my team who, while very athletic (pro body builder), was new to skating. He went to a few clinics though and really put in the time every week, getting a little better each time. After a few weeks he was stepping up and challenging shooters. I'd watch him from the bench thinking "oh no, here we go..." only to see him strip the forward of the puck by aggressively moving in on him. Good for him. Once in a while he got burned, but hey, you live by the sword you die by the sword.

Don't wait for confidence. Nobody makes every play. Not ever gonna happen. I always have told kids I have coached to make mistakes going 100%. It's like anything else, the more you do it the better you get. Being afraid to make a mistake is the best way to make a mistake. You will never learn what not to do unless you do it. Key is to recognize the mistake and not repeat it. If you go 100% you will make more good plays than bad. And the more you do it the mistakes will be even less. You watched your teammate and said "good for him". Say good for yourself instead.

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03-01-2010, 03:53 PM
  #36
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Here's my 2 bits:

As a d-man with a similar problem you have - foot speed due to an old acl injury - I do compensate a bit. Yes, i'm a very good backwards skater with my weaker side being going to my right (play left d) but I can still do it just fine.

Now, you basically have two ways to play a one-on-one; attack or contain. It's a judgement call based on the speed and puck-control of the forward.

If the forward has good puck control and speed, I always contain, take away the middle of the ice, get low so you can quickly cross-over to the boards when they go wide, keep them wide and try to force a bad angle shot or pass you can block. Just remember the middle of the ice is yours, if they cut to the middle they are going to run into you and lose possession.

Now, if the forward has poor puck control or is not going very fast, ATTACK! Do not sit back and contain because you will get burned as they will look to make a play or shoot using you as a screen because they have space to do so.

Some of the very best players will come in with speed and then slow down to increase the gap, you have to read and react quickly.

Try practicing reading the on rushing forward and getting low in your stance. Do it in the warmup don't just stand at the point and take slapshots, wait for other players on your team to come in and play some light d, just practice positioning dont try to stop them, just work on making them go where you want them to by taking up the space you don't want them to have.

Good Luck!

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03-01-2010, 04:08 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Steelhead16 View Post
Don't wait for confidence. Nobody makes every play. Not ever gonna happen. I always have told kids I have coached to make mistakes going 100%. It's like anything else, the more you do it the better you get. Being afraid to make a mistake is the best way to make a mistake. You will never learn what not to do unless you do it. Key is to recognize the mistake and not repeat it. If you go 100% you will make more good plays than bad. And the more you do it the mistakes will be even less. You watched your teammate and said "good for him". Say good for yourself instead.
Thanks, coach

Yea, the more I think about this and the more I read, the more I realize it's less a technical issue and more a confidence issue. That being said, some of the technical issues addressed in the thread have helped me out a bit too. As an adult player with little formal training in the sport, every bit helps.

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03-01-2010, 04:11 PM
  #38
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We'll just have to agree to disagree then. I've always had my defensemen play body on body and stick on stick. Use your body to stop him from skating where he wants to skate, and use your stick to stop him from putting the puck where he wants to put it.

Using a pokecheck doesn't eliminate your other options. If it does, you're doing it wrong.
This is an interesting debate you guys got going on. I've never thought to try and disguise the pokecheck by keeping my stick close to the body. In fact, I usually do the opposite, try and keep an active stick.

Disguising the poke check? That's just sneaky.

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03-01-2010, 05:38 PM
  #39
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Honestly the best tip ever is, never be scared of getting out skated, and let them come to you.

If you panic and start going forward the other way, you screw up your gap.

Being slow is almost a good thing, it lets the come to you faster.

BUT slow, and flat footed are two different things!

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03-06-2010, 10:29 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSandman View Post
So I play defense in a beer league, never had serious coaching or been to camps etc, although I have been playing for a long time. Since my biggest weakness is lack of footspeed, gap control becomes very important when defending against some of the faster forwards out there.

Any tips when it comes to gap control? Perhaps those of you who have had coaching on defense, or have been playing for a while can enlighten me. The concept is simple enough, but I'm just wondering if there are fundamental concepts that are taught to defenders, rules of thumb, etc.

I'm pretty good defending against 1v1s and 2v1s, but once in a while I find myself giving a fast forward too much room to move in. And yes, I can skate forwards and backwards well, I'm strong on my skates, just not quick.
Ok, so here's a couple of things that you might want to add to your game for gap control...

First, lets look at this picture below.

here you will see that in order to have good gap control you must line up your outside shoulder to his inside shoulder. This alignment is important to force the puck carrier towards the out side. What you are really doing is giving him the Illusion that going to the outside would be better for him to go.

If you place your body directly in front, then you give him two options on which way to go. The last thing you want is to give him a choice. You direct him to where you want him to go. And, the best way is around and towards the boards to the out side.

Second, If you shoot left, with the butt end of the stick in your right hand, place the stick off to your right as you skate backwards. This also make the area towards the center...closed.

Third, as you get closer to blue line as you skate backwards, never place your stick in front of you as you skate backwards. This acts like a measurement stick and tells the puck carrier how much room he has left before the gap control starts.

So place the stick off to the side and just when he is with stick length, you do a sweep check with your stick and the puck will go in his feet or off to the side while he crosses the blue line, causing his team mate to go off side on the other end of the blue line.

Third, Look at this next picture...

This yellow zone is called the Shooting Zone. If the defenseman moves the winger out this area in the white area, he has completed 90% of his job. Why? He has placed the puck carrier into a low scoring percentage.

Hope this helps.
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03-07-2010, 01:06 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by TheSandman View Post
This is an interesting debate you guys got going on. I've never thought to try and disguise the pokecheck by keeping my stick close to the body. In fact, I usually do the opposite, try and keep an active stick.

Disguising the poke check? That's just sneaky.
I find being prepared is key to the game. I usually have an idea of how the player will react to a situation. Watch the games after yours(if there are any) or even come in and watch the ones before. After a while you get the idea of what you will see. I understand it's a beer league, but most guys are there to get better and the ones not playing might be able to help you out.

I'm a smallish(5'10" 175lbs) D-man who really can't rely on hitting, but relies on positioning, but average skater( I learned to skate by myself.) If I can anticipate the play I don't get beat hardly. I let them come to me and usually the guys will try to be fancy, and put the puck between the legs and pick it up on the other side. What I usually do is tie up their stick and use my skates to push the puck to the outside. Also try not to screen the goalie.

Line up your outside shin pad with the puck. I find most players will just shoot into you and then you just have to chip it out. Simple plays make hockey a whole lot easier. I get yelled at by my teammates for not putting the guy on his butt, but the goalie will thank me at the end of the game. The boards are your friend.

On two on ones I let the goalie get a good view of the puck but at the same time keep my stick next to/in front of his stick. It gives the opportunity for you to deflect the puck out and kill the play and gives the player no where to pass since your stick is right there. Keep your self balanced between the two guys.

Just some ideas I find work for any kind of league.

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03-07-2010, 10:54 AM
  #42
TheSandman
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Originally Posted by Headcoach View Post
Ok, so here's a couple of things that you might want to add to your game for gap control...

First, lets look at this picture below.

here you will see that in order to have good gap control you must line up your outside shoulder to his inside shoulder. This alignment is important to force the puck carrier towards the out side. What you are really doing is giving him the Illusion that going to the outside would be better for him to go.

If you place your body directly in front, then you give him two options on which way to go. The last thing you want is to give him a choice. You direct him to where you want him to go. And, the best way is around and towards the boards to the out side.

Second, If you shoot left, with the butt end of the stick in your right hand, place the stick off to your right as you skate backwards. This also make the area towards the center...closed.

Third, as you get closer to blue line as you skate backwards, never place your stick in front of you as you skate backwards. This acts like a measurement stick and tells the puck carrier how much room he has left before the gap control starts.

So place the stick off to the side and just when he is with stick length, you do a sweep check with your stick and the puck will go in his feet or off to the side while he crosses the blue line, causing his team mate to go off side on the other end of the blue line.

Third, Look at this next picture...

This yellow zone is called the Shooting Zone. If the defenseman moves the winger out this area in the white area, he has completed 90% of his job. Why? He has placed the puck carrier into a low scoring percentage.

Hope this helps.
Head coach
This is excellent, thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresFreak97 View Post
I find being prepared is key to the game. I usually have an idea of how the player will react to a situation. Watch the games after yours(if there are any) or even come in and watch the ones before. After a while you get the idea of what you will see. I understand it's a beer league, but most guys are there to get better and the ones not playing might be able to help you out.

I'm a smallish(5'10" 175lbs) D-man who really can't rely on hitting, but relies on positioning, but average skater( I learned to skate by myself.) If I can anticipate the play I don't get beat hardly. I let them come to me and usually the guys will try to be fancy, and put the puck between the legs and pick it up on the other side. What I usually do is tie up their stick and use my skates to push the puck to the outside. Also try not to screen the goalie.

Line up your outside shin pad with the puck. I find most players will just shoot into you and then you just have to chip it out. Simple plays make hockey a whole lot easier. I get yelled at by my teammates for not putting the guy on his butt, but the goalie will thank me at the end of the game. The boards are your friend.

On two on ones I let the goalie get a good view of the puck but at the same time keep my stick next to/in front of his stick. It gives the opportunity for you to deflect the puck out and kill the play and gives the player no where to pass since your stick is right there. Keep your self balanced between the two guys.

Just some ideas I find work for any kind of league.
Good stuff. This and other posts have made me more aware of my positioning.

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