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Scouting Report: (Sept. 22nd) Yanic Perreault

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Old
09-24-2003, 06:57 AM
  #26
J-D
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Well, I'll just say that if I want to win the Stanley Cup, I don't want Perrault anywhere near my team, unless he plays on the opposing team!

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Old
09-24-2003, 07:02 AM
  #27
Mike8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-D
Well, I'll just say that if I want to win the Stanley Cup, I don't want Perrault anywhere near my team, unless he plays on the opposing team!
I'll take it one step further.... If I want to make the playoffs, I don't want Perreault anywhere near my team.

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Old
09-24-2003, 07:45 AM
  #28
Mathieu Lavergne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
No, I disagree. Perreault racks up more points because he ignores the defensive aspects of the game. Madden and Peca rack up less points because they focus on the defensive aspects of the game.

There is not a main goal of a player. That's the mindset that results in Perreault being a poor system player. If there is a 'main goal' it should be that they're not a liability to their team; that they're capable of playing the team's system and being productive from within it. If they can't play the system, then they're compromising the system and we see it break down as we have many times over the past few years.
Great post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8b
.

Stats are facts, maybe not the only aspect of the game, but surely one clear thing to look at.
Your point per ice time is meaningless, it doesn't even consider things such as PK time. It may be a fact but a fact that doesn't prove much. Most of those center had more ice time simply because they are more useful to their team, reliable etc than Perreault, they go in the corners and they play defense, something Perreault do not, making them better and more valuable to their team. I could say Andy Delmore is a GREAT defenseman...based on offensive production but the fact is, Delmore is nothing more than a powerplay specialist. What happens on the scoresheet is only a part of evaluating a player, what happens on the ice tells you significantly more on them.

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Old
09-24-2003, 01:43 PM
  #29
8b
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One stat that may show defensive aspect of a player is +/-. Perreault had one bad season last year, did play on the 4th line and had his icetime dropped due to his slump. Yes it is true that Perreault is not really good defensively but IMO he is not that bad. If we consider that he is 9th position for offense and 18 for defense, he got the 14th rank overall. Not bad if we consider that most of the player here have first line icetime (some have even more ice time than Koivu!) and they most got better wingers and probably have a better system of play, if you like to consider "non-stat" facts.

Plus minus rank (defense ranking)

1- Datsyuk, +20
1- Langkow, +20
3- Morrison, +18
4- Gomez, +17
5- Lang, +12
6- Arnott, +9
7- Bonk, +6
8- Nylander, +3
9- Rolston, +1
10- Stumpel, +0
11- Holik, -1
12- Legwand, -2
13- Conroy, -4
13- Cassels, -4
13- Nedved, -4
16- York (Mike), -8
17- Drury, -9
18- Perreault, -11
19- Damphousse, -13
20- Rucchin, -14

Offense + defense ranking

1- Datsyuk (2)
2- Lang (7)
3- Gomez (8)
4- Bonk (10)
4- Morrison (10)
6- Arnott (14)
6- Nylander (14)
8- Cassels (17)
9- Langkow (20)
10- Legwand (21)
11- Rolston (23)
12- Conroy (25)
13- Stumpel (26)
14- Perreault (27)
14- Nedved (27)
16- Damphousse (28)
16- York (28)
18- Holik (30)
19- Drury (33)
20- Rucchin (38)

Well, I know that most of you don't like to use stat to compare players or judge them but I do. It is surely not all the aspect of the game but it says a lot anyway. My (final) point is that Perreault is not that bad and have been on a bad season last year, like most of the player on the team. His way of playing may or may not be liked, but he definitively is better than some of the other team second line center, with less effectives and icetime. His lack of defensive play is well compasated with his offense, pairing him with some good defensive players may do the trick.

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Old
09-24-2003, 02:03 PM
  #30
Mike8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8b
Well, I know that most of you don't like to use stat to compare players or judge them but I do. It is surely not all the aspect of the game but it says a lot anyway. My (final) point is that Perreault is not that bad and have been on a bad season last year, like most of the player on the team. His way of playing may or may not be liked, but he definitively is better than some of the other team second line center, with less effectives and icetime. His lack of defensive play is well compasated with his offense, pairing him with some good defensive players may do the trick.
That's fair and I'm not going to try to prove you wrong or anything but, I am curious why you look at these stats to prove anything. Specifically why do you place any importance in the +/- stat?

Let's take a look at Mike Peca since he's already been used as an example in this thread. I think he is universally believed to be one of the top defensive centers in the league, right? He had a -4 last year. He had a +19 the year before. Do you think that -4 shows how effective Peca is defensively?

Another example is Mark Parrish (since I'm looking at NYI statistics...). He was a -27 in 2000/01. In 01/02, he was +10. Last year, he was -11. Do you think he was a brutal defensive player one year, then good the next season, then poor again?

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Old
09-24-2003, 02:22 PM
  #31
8b
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
That's fair and I'm not going to try to prove you wrong or anything but, I am curious why you look at these stats to prove anything. Specifically why do you place any importance in the +/- stat?

Let's take a look at Mike Peca since he's already been used as an example in this thread. I think he is universally believed to be one of the top defensive centers in the league, right? He had a -4 last year. He had a +19 the year before. Do you think that -4 shows how effective Peca is defensively?

Another example is Mark Parrish (since I'm looking at NYI statistics...). He was a -27 in 2000/01. In 01/02, he was +10. Last year, he was -11. Do you think he was a brutal defensive player one year, then good the next season, then poor again?
As I said, stat isn't anything. I made those stats just for your pleasure remember But yes I beleive that stats may give some landmark on how a player is doing. And Peca is not comparable to Perreault, he is not the same type of player at all. Juneau have the same role than Peca, you may want to compare them...

This is just stats, regard it as it. I feel that Perreault is underrated and it is why I brang some stats out.

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Old
09-24-2003, 02:34 PM
  #32
Mike8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8b
But yes I beleive that stats may give some landmark on how a player is doing. And Peca is not comparable to Perreault, he is not the same type of player at all. Juneau have the same role than Peca, you may want to compare them...
I'm not comparing Peca to Perreault. I'm wondering why you feel the +/- stat is important considering the changes in Peca's +/- each year. I don't find the stat shows anything of importance, and I find Peca's +/- rating indicates how little meaning that stat has.

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Old
09-24-2003, 02:52 PM
  #33
8b
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
I'm not comparing Peca to Perreault. I'm wondering why you feel the +/- stat is important considering the changes in Peca's +/- each year. I don't find the stat shows anything of importance, and I find Peca's +/- rating indicates how little meaning that stat has.
Important, hmm not really important but interesting I would rather say. +/- and average icetime on ice are my 2 favorite stats: +/- show how lucky a player is and average icetime on ice show how a player has been used by his coach. I always liked stats.

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Old
09-24-2003, 03:01 PM
  #34
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Sorry to use Darz's profile post for my rants and raves about Perreault, but you had to know it was gonna happen sooner or later!

Anyhow this is a post I made regarding Perreault with the intentions of putting all debate to rest on him! No one responded, so either that means no one was interested in taking part of this 'challenge' or no one read it. The optomist in me chooses the latter, so I will repost in the hopes of one of these Perreault-fans to take me up on this challenge....

"Yeah, my apologies. I'm pretty tired of the whole Perreault-debate. Even when we see him break down defensively time and time again, and people complain about the poor defense, it doesn't seem as if 1 + 1 = 2 for most people here. Not sure if there's blind loyalty to Perreault due to what he brings on the stat sheet, but people have gotta know by now that defense beats offense in the NHL these days...

Anyhow, to put the Perreault debate to rest: if any Perreault-believer would like to lay claim that he isn't as brutal defensively as I believe he is, how about a little challenge? We'll pick a few games in the season to watch over the defensive breakdowns (and scoring chances against) on the Canadiens, make a note on each, see what the cause of each breakdown is, and see which forward is the biggest defensive liability? It wouldn't take much time as I assume everyone here watches the Hab games anyhow, could be fun & put the Perreault debate to rest.

We could also track forward reception to passes from defensemen (see how good they are at receiving a pass, whether they give it up, etc.), and giveaways forwards make in the neutral zone.

This would give us a better sense of who's doing what; who's problematic for the Canadiens and who's hindering the system from being implemented properly."

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Old
09-26-2003, 12:16 PM
  #35
Habsaku
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You forgot to say puck posession when entering the offensive zone, I think Perreault might be the only player in history who's always dumped the puck in any situation, even a 2 v 0(joking but you get the point).

Perreaults strengths:

Faceoffs
Scoring


Perreault weaknesses:

Not knowing what to do after winning said faceof
scoring in streaks
lack of skating
capital lack of defense
no grit what so ever
desperate lack of size(hes not 5'11" at all)
Not a system player
Floater
Cheater in the neutral zone
giveaways
bad pass reception
Atrocious puck control«------!!!
ALWAYS dumps
Doesnt fight for the puck
doesnt go into corners
destroys momentum with his lack of intensity
Line always dominated by opposition


I think his weaknesses greatly outmatch his strengths and I dont think stats can show those type of weaknesses while they CAN show his strengths. Perreault will never win the stanley cup because he doesnt belong as a center, any team with him in the first 3 slots is bound to lose in the playoffs because most players have intensity, but not him. if we can trade him for a mascot, well be a better team.

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