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Old
03-01-2010, 11:57 AM
  #151
KreiMeARiver*
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Here's a good one.

If the Queen had balls, she'd be the King

Another one

If if's and but's were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry christmas
hahaha I knew the first one...but the second is brilliant and will be used by me sometime this week! good show

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03-01-2010, 12:10 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Gabborik View Post
People are so sure Weiss will put up so many points with Gaborik. These are the same folks who were sure Gomez would be a 100 point player with Jagr. And then Zherdev would instantly become a star with a legitimate center in Gomez, and where did that go?
Actually, there's a large number of people who want to acquire Weiss to improve the second line. I can see how you might leave that part out.

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Same people who are SURE Dubinsky has reached his potential and wont get any better, and that Stepan and Anisimov's potential already outweigh what we have in a proven player.
Proven what? That he's an inconsistent 45ish point player? Until he's proven more than that, you're simply bashing the same argument you're using to build up Dubinsky.

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Stepan has yet to play an NHL game. Get it through your head. Anisimov, has 20 points in 62 games. Dubinsky has 31 in 49, and had 40 last year playing with no major superstars, so when you say yeah but Anisimov has not played with Gaborik yada yada yada... well last year Dubinsky played with who? Drury and Callahan?
Anisimov is also 20 years old and in his first season in the NHL. That's an awful comparison to make. Because Anisimov didn't match Dubinsky's 2nd and 3rd year production in his rookie season, he's automatically less valuable than Dubinsky? Asinine.

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Until Anisimov breaks 40 points in a season, I keep Dubinsky over him. Not that I think any of them should be traded. And until Stepan plays a damn NHL game I take both over him.
Why are you harping on this? In the move you're *****ing about, you're replacing Dubinsky with Weiss, not Anisimov or Stepan. Weiss is an upgrade over Dubinsky regardless of where Anisimov or Stepan are in their development.

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We don't know what the hell weiss will do if we trade for him. We dont know what type of player Stepan will become. Or how much better Anisimov or Dubinsky will get. But Anisimov and Dubinsky are at least proven commodities on this team, not some other team a la weiss.
So that basically nullifies the possibility of ever trading a player for another. Player X may be a 60 point player with team Y, but we can't be sure he'll do the same with the Rangers! So we're better off keeping player Z who is a regular 40 point player? Yeah, makes a lot of sense..

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Old
03-01-2010, 12:28 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Gabborik View Post
People are so sure Weiss will put up so many points with Gaborik. These are the same folks who were sure Gomez would be a 100 point player with Jagr. And then Zherdev would instantly become a star with a legitimate center in Gomez, and where did that go?

Same people who are SURE Dubinsky has reached his potential and wont get any better, and that Stepan and Anisimov's potential already outweigh what we have in a proven player.

Stepan has yet to play an NHL game. Get it through your head. Anisimov, has 20 points in 62 games. Dubinsky has 31 in 49, and had 40 last year playing with no major superstars, so when you say yeah but Anisimov has not played with Gaborik yada yada yada... well last year Dubinsky played with who? Drury and Callahan?

Until Anisimov breaks 40 points in a season, I keep Dubinsky over him. Not that I think any of them should be traded. And until Stepan plays a damn NHL game I take both over him.

We don't know what the hell weiss will do if we trade for him. We dont know what type of player Stepan will become. Or how much better Anisimov or Dubinsky will get. But Anisimov and Dubinsky are at least proven commodities on this team, not some other team a la weiss.
Good points all over.

I agree with you on Dubi, Weiss and Anisimov.

But, would it be a big deal if Weiss didn't work out well with Gaborik? We currently have someone who does work out well with Gabby, and probably have around 3 years left in him. Thats Vlac Prospal.

Besides those 2, we basically don't have one decent offensive top 2 line player. Thats 4 spots to fill. Weiss would be a decent start. I also don't think Weiss takes away a spot from Stephan. Those two could play on the same line, they could play on different lines. Heck, its not exactly like it would hurt to have like a Weiss on a 3rd line either. He is a good player. In the game of hockey today, you win with players like that.

Everyone is praising Brian Burke today, for his job putting together team USA.

5'11 offensive dynamo - 6'0 playmaker - 6'1 PF
6'4 PF - 5'11 playmaker - 5'11 sniper
6'0 PF - 6'2 two-way agitator - 5'10 offensive dynamo

Plenty of room for smaller -- in a broad picture -- very offensiveminded 1-way players. I am not saying that any of them were even avg defensively, many of them did a great job both ways, but you get what I mean. There were around 5 of them on the top 3 lines. We could handle 2 in Weiss and Stehpan...

Looking ahead at our roster. Lets say it takes something like this to be successful in the game today.
(The wingers can natrually shift sides)
PF/Dynamo-Playmaker-Sniper
PF-Playmaker-Sniper/Dynamo
Dynamo/PF-2-way player/plamaker-PF//At least one skilled player.

What spots can we fill to get a contender?
PF/Dynamo-(prospal)-Gaborik
PF/Dynamo-playmaker-Callahan
Avery-Dubinsky-PF/Dynamo

Not many IMO. Like our PF's are on the small side. Avery, Callahan and co. Dubinsky would be a fine 3rd line center. We are definitely very short on dynamo's playmakers.

In the farm we have like Grachev (who definitely have potential to fill a Malone/Bobby Ryan type of role of above), Stephan who could be a playmaker and Kreider who could be a dynamo. Weiss would fit in well in a position like that. Like lets say we could get a Weiss (for Dubi), and then a Kane type of offensive dynamo (really elite). Then I think we might have a framework for a contending team at least.

Prospal-Weiss-Gaborik
Grachev-Stephan-"Kane"
Avery-Anisimov-Callahan

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Old
03-01-2010, 12:34 PM
  #154
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Dubinsky is already a decent second line center. Though Weiss is better as a top flight second line center/1B center, I think people are really underrating Dubinsky. There's no doubt in my mind that if he didn't get injured, he'd have broken 50 points this year. Would I trade Dubinsky for Weiss straight up? Of course. But I wouldn't forget how valuable he is, either. It seems like this entire argument is based on the two extreme sides of the spectrum when, in reality, things are more in the middle. Weiss is better now and has more value but it's not a complete runaway. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see Dubinsky having more value at Weiss' age than Weiss does now. Especially when you consider Dubinsky's physical and defensive play.

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Old
03-01-2010, 02:59 PM
  #155
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Is anyone else concerned about motivation and hustle problems with Horton? He's been called lazy before. That's one thing Dubinsky is not.

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Old
03-01-2010, 03:03 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by NYR94 View Post
Is anyone else concerned about motivation and hustle problems with Horton? He's been called lazy before. That's one thing Dubinsky is not.
Dubinsky glides too much. He doesn't move his legs as much as he should.

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Old
03-01-2010, 03:25 PM
  #157
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Is anyone else concerned about motivation and hustle problems with Horton? He's been called lazy before. That's one thing Dubinsky is not.
Not concerned at all.

Horton, lazy and all is still a better player than Dubinsky.

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Old
03-01-2010, 03:34 PM
  #158
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Some dude who works for the Oilers Front Office posted this on Twitter...

"@oilers_insider: souray to new york is almost done- but we will have to take redden."

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Old
03-01-2010, 03:36 PM
  #159
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Well I didn't know where else to put this but I saw on Blueshirt Banter this little tidbit rumor saying Souray to NYR close, again I just wanna throw it out there and see if some of you guys who use twitter know if this guy is legit or not.

http://twitter.com/oilers_insider

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Old
03-01-2010, 03:40 PM
  #160
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What's Souray's contract again?

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Old
03-01-2010, 03:40 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by AdamGravesNight View Post
Some dude who works for the Oilers Front Office posted this on Twitter...

"@oilers_insider: souray to new york is almost done- but we will have to take redden."
I really doubt the oilers would take on that salary....they want to dump salary, not add more with a worse contract.

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Old
03-01-2010, 03:53 PM
  #162
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What's Souray's contract again?
5.4m cap hit, signed for 2 more years.

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Old
03-01-2010, 03:55 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by rangers32185 View Post
Well I didn't know where else to put this but I saw on Blueshirt Banter this little tidbit rumor saying Souray to NYR close, again I just wanna throw it out there and see if some of you guys who use twitter know if this guy is legit or not.

http://twitter.com/oilers_insider
sign me up as long as we don't drop anyone significant.

Although I have a feeling we'd see

Rangers Get:
Cogliano
Souray

Oilers Get:
Redden
Dubinsky
Pick

Watch

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Old
03-01-2010, 03:56 PM
  #164
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Souray hurt a lot, which could be a positive with LTIR possibilities. Does he have a no trade clause? That would not be good.

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03-01-2010, 03:57 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by rangers32185 View Post
Well I didn't know where else to put this but I saw on Blueshirt Banter this little tidbit rumor saying Souray to NYR close, again I just wanna throw it out there and see if some of you guys who use twitter know if this guy is legit or not.

http://twitter.com/oilers_insider
100% fake. Just look at his posts. If that were an Oilers "Insider", he would be violating non disclosure agreements, tampering, and being completely unprofessional with some of his posts. Don't bother with this idiot.

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Old
03-01-2010, 03:58 PM
  #166
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Souray hurt a lot, which could be a positive with LTIR possibilities. Does he have a no trade clause? That would not be good.
Yes, but reports from a couple weeks back are that the Rangers are like one of like 5 or 6 teams he would waive it for.

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Old
03-01-2010, 03:58 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
sign me up as long as we don't drop anyone significant.

Although I have a feeling we'd see

Rangers Get:
Cogliano
Souray

Oilers Get:
Redden
Dubinsky
Pick

Watch
I would be okay with that if Cogliano was turned around and sent to Florida in a deal for Horton.

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Old
03-01-2010, 03:58 PM
  #168
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Id much rather waive and send down Redden than trade value to get rid of him for a only slightly less abominable contract.

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03-01-2010, 04:04 PM
  #169
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Well I guess it is an advantage to flip Redden for Souray since Redden has the best no trade clause in the league.............his salary!

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03-01-2010, 04:14 PM
  #170
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Id much rather waive and send down Redden than trade value to get rid of him for a only slightly less abominable contract.
Sure, I would too, but who knows if that'll ever happen. I'd rather have a two year deal than a deal that goes through the 2014 season. Imagine getting Souray, Drury, and Rozsival all off the books in the same year?

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Old
03-01-2010, 05:08 PM
  #171
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Souray hurt a lot, which could be a positive with LTIR possibilities. Does he have a no trade clause? That would not be good.
There are very few players that wouldn't waive a NTC to go to the Rangers.

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Old
03-01-2010, 05:11 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by rangers32185 View Post
Well I didn't know where else to put this but I saw on Blueshirt Banter this little tidbit rumor saying Souray to NYR close, again I just wanna throw it out there and see if some of you guys who use twitter know if this guy is legit or not.

http://twitter.com/oilers_insider

Depends who else we part with along with Redden. Imagine Souray, Drury and Rozsival all coming off the books in the same time (in 2 years).

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Old
03-01-2010, 07:41 PM
  #173
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Bob Mckenzie pretty much squashed all deals with Florida today on NHL Live, he seemed pretty adamant that Horton, Weiss, or Booth won't be traded. More along the lines of Olez, Stillman, Allen, etc, young players who aren't locked up long term and considered part of the core.

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Old
03-01-2010, 07:54 PM
  #174
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Bob Mckenzie pretty much squashed all deals with Florida today on NHL Live, he seemed pretty adamant that Horton, Weiss, or Booth won't be traded. More along the lines of Olez, Stillman, Allen, etc, young players who aren't locked up long term and considered part of the core.
Nice!!

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Old
03-01-2010, 07:55 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by NYSportsfan6230 View Post
Bob Mckenzie pretty much squashed all deals with Florida today on NHL Live, he seemed pretty adamant that Horton, Weiss, or Booth won't be traded. More along the lines of Olez, Stillman, Allen, etc, young players who aren't locked up long term and considered part of the core.
I would take Allen and Seidenberg for Rozsival, Lisin, Voros, mid round pick

I figure Seidenberg is worth a 2nd so a mid round pick , Lisin,etc

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