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Old
03-02-2010, 04:33 PM
  #26
cjerina
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Originally Posted by Predanerd View Post

I still don't get why people think this is amusing. The fact that Poile was reluctant to trade him just shows that he saw great potential in him. He knew giving him up would be a mistake, but Pevs never broke out for us and we were forced to make a move.
Seeing potential is great and all, but I cite Peverley's waiver deal because Atlanta went out and stated they tried trading for Rich but Poile didnt. How could he be surprised Peverley would get claimed when a team pretty much said they wanted him and would even give something up to get him.

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03-02-2010, 04:39 PM
  #27
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Seeing potential is great and all, but I cite Peverley's waiver deal because Atlanta went out and stated they tried trading for Rich but Poile didnt. How could he be surprised Peverley would get claimed when a team pretty much said they wanted him and would even give something up to get him.
Bingo. That was stupidity.

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Old
03-02-2010, 04:54 PM
  #28
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Zidlicky for Jones: The only potentially good trade Poile has made the last 6 years.

I guess this now falls in the "fail" category.

Maybe Grebeshov will play lights out for us.

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03-02-2010, 05:01 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Zidlicky for Jones: The only potentially good trade Poile has made the last 6 years.

I guess this now falls in the "fail" category.

Maybe Grebeshov will play lights out for us.
Not if Roman Josi pans out to be as good as Zidlicky...the 2nd round pick we acquired was used to move up and select Josi...

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Old
03-02-2010, 05:12 PM
  #30
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I think you have to wonder, given the number of times Jones has been up and down, if the "uncoachable" label that was hung on him last year isnt at least somewhat true.

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Old
03-02-2010, 05:12 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
How was he misused? Let's see, on pace for 13-14 goals per season (that's better than Fiddler's 11 goals a season) each year he's been a Pred, but only seeing ice half the time. Hovers around 4th-6th on the team in PPG/60mins TOI each season, yet isn't a regular member of the PP. Over 82 games, the difference between him and Goc this season comes out to less than 2 goals (.17goals/game vs .19goals.game). His 7 goals puts him just behind Goc on the team with 11 fewer games played. We complain about a lack of scoring ... a poor 5-on-4 PP ... then we take guys and bury them on a line with Belak then complain when they only put up 7 goals in 41 games.

Yet Goc is lauded for having a career season.


Pevs - 73 games as a Pred, 7g, 13a
Jones - 87 games as a Pred, 14g, 14a

Although I wouldn't throw Goc into the mix for comparison only because he has considerably more NHL experience as well as able to take a face off, anytime Belak is in instead of Jones, is obviously a misuse of talent.

But really the issue of how Jones was (mis)used can be best illustrated with a game from last year. It was a game that for some reason Trotz in his post game presser had to single out Jones for a mistake, while all the vets on the team should have been benched if we had a 30 man roster to choose from. In that game, Jones had a turnover at mid-ice that led to a shot on goal. Big deal. Trotz says something like "...he's got to pay attention to the details..." That same game, Fiddler was offside 3-4 times, had a couple of turnovers, was -2, and committed 2 penalties including one in the offensive zone (cardinal sin) that led to a PP goal against. End result: Jones benched for "...not paying attention to details..." and Fiddler gets more playing time.

I don't blame Poile for the Jones situation (pending what if anything comes from it), but I put this at the feet of the Lineup Card Chewing Man Behind the Bench who failed to properly use a player.

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03-02-2010, 06:13 PM
  #32
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I'm really not sure why anyone is surprised at this. The number of goals he put in was offset by the number of goals he was responsible for. You can stat yourself to death but that fact probably won't show up anywhere. He had to be a solid PK player to stick with this team and he wasn't, that would have been all he could offer. There are very few all around great players, most have an exceptional skill to overcome weakness. For example Rads has unbelievable hands to make up for the worst skater ever in the NHL. Jones was average to below average in skating, puck handling, PK, PP, 5x5 and overall ice vision. Goc can win faceoffs, kill penalties, is a pretty good skater and has much better ice vision. Jones has had his chance and to me has never shown a glimmer of being anything but sub average.

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Old
03-02-2010, 06:18 PM
  #33
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Two nights on the town with Tootoo and he'd sign a new contract. Just saying.
Why do you think they traded for Upshall?

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Old
03-02-2010, 06:18 PM
  #34
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I did some quick stats for goals per minute played and Jones sat 3rd on the team only behind Horny who sits #1 and Erat who's got the second spot.

Goals to TOI ranking (Goals per minute)
Horny - 0.0241
Erat - 0.0195
Jones - 0.0159

If we don't get a goal scorer this deadline I feel Jones will be sorely missed as we really do rely on our secondary scoring. But I'm optimistic we will.

edit: as for the defensive liability thing. I don't think this was the case at all this season. I'd like to have someone check his Giveaway/Takeaway numbers since he is a + this season. And I'm done looking at numbers.

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Old
03-02-2010, 06:22 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by jlsg View Post
I'm really not sure why anyone is surprised at this. The number of goals he put in was offset by the number of goals he was responsible for. You can stat yourself to death but that fact probably won't show up anywhere. He had to be a solid PK player to stick with this team and he wasn't, that would have been all he could offer. There are very few all around great players, most have an exceptional skill to overcome weakness. For example Rads has unbelievable hands to make up for the worst skater ever in the NHL. Jones was average to below average in skating, puck handling, PK, PP, 5x5 and overall ice vision. Goc can win faceoffs, kill penalties, is a pretty good skater and has much better ice vision. Jones has had his chance and to me has never shown a glimmer of being anything but sub average.
For a guy who was below average in 5-on-5 and the PP his numbers sure are above average for this team in both categories. 4th and 6th respectively this year and last in PPG/60mins. 4 PPG in 87games ... which would be 5th for either of the past full seasons. In limited play. .17 goals per game in 10:42 ... only Scatchard had a better goals/game in less time .... or less than 14+mins TOI per game.


Defensively, I'll agree that he is below average. Offensively ... he's a 13-14 goal per season guy over a full season. Just the secondary scoring with the ability to score on the powerplay that this team could use ... if he wasn't skating with Belak or not playing so often.

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Old
03-02-2010, 06:27 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by slanted View Post
I did some quick stats for goals per minute played and Jones sat 3rd on the team only behind Horny who sits #1 and Erat who's got the second spot.

Goals to TOI ranking (Goals per minute)
Horny - 0.0241
Erat - 0.0195
Jones - 0.0159

If we don't get a goal scorer this deadline I feel Jones will be sorely missed as we really do rely on our secondary scoring. But I'm optimistic we will.

edit: as for the defensive liability thing. I don't think this was the case at all this season. I'd like to have someone check his Giveaway/Takeaway numbers since he is a + this season. And I'm done looking at numbers.
+3 for the season, but his relative +/- is on the - side .... his giveaway/takeaway ratio is to the positive. Take the numbers however you'd like.

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Old
03-02-2010, 06:38 PM
  #37
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Here's the million dollar question, litterally. Does he clear?

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Old
03-02-2010, 06:51 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Here's the million dollar question, litterally. Does he clear?
Based on the kind of players/contracts that do get claimed I can't see him clearing. Never know what teams plans are though. I personally think it would suck for us if he cleared, now that he's on waivers we need that mil.

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Old
03-02-2010, 10:06 PM
  #39
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Trotz had praise for Jones in the post-game when asked why they waived him. Troz said just looking at what roster spots they had, after bringing Wilson up since he had played well, they just didn't have room for Jones. Said Ryan was a good player, and a good person, and that "selfishly, I hope he clears (waivers)"

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Old
03-02-2010, 10:11 PM
  #40
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I hope a team puts a claim on him!!

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Old
03-02-2010, 10:24 PM
  #41
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I really don't see the hoopla in losing Jones. He will likely be a decent NHL player, but he will never be accused of being a play-maker or defensive player, just a guy who can get goals close to the net. He has absolutely no place on this team now or in the future except as a depth guy because really the guys that are worse offensively than Jones like Smithson and Tootoo play other roles. If a move is coming then this is perfectly fine by me, if not Ill be irrated for a while but get over it rather quickly.

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Old
03-02-2010, 10:27 PM
  #42
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Detroit picks him up and lets Holmstrom tutor the art of standing in front of the net and torments us for the next 10 years in doing so.

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Old
03-02-2010, 11:39 PM
  #43
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Detroit picks him up and lets Holmstrom tutor the art of standing in front of the net and torments us for the next 10 years in doing so.
no, jones falls too much

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Old
03-03-2010, 12:17 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
How was he misused? Let's see, on pace for 13-14 goals per season (that's better than Fiddler's 11 goals a season) each year he's been a Pred, but only seeing ice half the time. Hovers around 4th-6th on the team in PPG/60mins TOI each season, yet isn't a regular member of the PP. Over 82 games, the difference between him and Goc this season comes out to less than 2 goals (.17goals/game vs .19goals.game). His 7 goals puts him just behind Goc on the team with 11 fewer games played. We complain about a lack of scoring ... a poor 5-on-4 PP ... then we take guys and bury them on a line with Belak then complain when they only put up 7 goals in 41 games.

Yet Goc is lauded for having a career season.


Pevs - 73 games as a Pred, 7g, 13a
Jones - 87 games as a Pred, 14g, 14a
Amen!

It makes me want to punch something when we bring a guy up, put him on a line with Belak, then send him back down for not producing. I mean, who is going to produce on a line with BELAK?! It's like playing on a two-man line!

That's what really gets me about this whole thing: the fact that Belak is still on this team, while Jones is on waivers. Belak seems like a nice guy and maybe he has great leadership skills or something, but he brings absolutely nothing to the table other than the occaisonal fight. The days when teams would waste a roster space on a fighter who can't play a regular NHL shift are GONE. Belak can't kill penalties, doesn't take faceoffs, definitely can't play on the PP, can't even play a regular 5 on 5 shift...WHY is he still here?! At least Jones crashes the net and screens the goalie, and scores a million times more than Belak.

I understand Jones wasn't the best defensively, and if we had waived him in favor of more talented guys, that'd be one thing...but to waive him when we have the waste of a roster space that is Wade Belak still around really makes me mad.

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Old
03-03-2010, 07:36 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Detroit picks him up and lets Holmstrom tutor the art of standing in front of the net and torments us for the next 10 years in doing so.
Detroit doesn't even have the caproom. They're expected to be quiet today simply because they can't add without subtracting.

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Old
03-03-2010, 07:50 AM
  #46
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I think the rationale (or lack of) will be more apparent after 3 pm today. If we add one or two more significant players, and nobody leaves, then its pretty clear why jones had to go.

if 3pm passes and we havent added another body and jones has been claimed on waivers, it'll be a headscratcher, for sure...

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Old
03-03-2010, 11:04 AM
  #47
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claimed by Edmonton per Bob McKenzie

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Old
03-03-2010, 11:07 AM
  #48
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claimed by Edmonton per Bob McKenzie
I am ****ing pissed. This is inexcusable. If Poile doesn't get a half decent forward today and we are stuck with Dan Hamhuis I will be livid.

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03-03-2010, 11:08 AM
  #49
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I am ****ing pissed. This is inexcusable. If Poile doesn't get a half decent forward today and we are stuck with Dan Hamhuis I will be livid.
just chill

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Old
03-03-2010, 11:10 AM
  #50
Joe T Choker
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I am ****ing pissed. This is inexcusable. If Poile doesn't get a half decent forward today and we are stuck with Dan Hamhuis I will be livid.
have a heart attack why don't you ... the kid didn't produce for us

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