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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Right now, better rivalry: USA/CAN or CAN/RUS

View Poll Results: Better current rivalry
CAN/USA 154 66.96%
CAN/RUS 76 33.04%
Voters: 230. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-02-2010, 02:04 PM
  #51
ToursLepantoVienna
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USA-CAN, and it's not even close.

Every recent Canadian and US NHL player and serious prospect have played with and/or against each other since they were peewees, in exhibition games, tournaments, minor junior, major junior, NCAA, WJC, etc. That constant exposure to each other has built a huge cross-border rivalry.

There's nothing more gratifying for an American hockey team than to beat a Canadian team, and nothing stings more for a Canadian team than losing to Americans.

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Old
03-02-2010, 03:54 PM
  #52
Stars and Bolts
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Very interesting question. It's the whole historic vs current rivalry thing. Historically, it's Russia without question (although they were the USSR during those days). But now I think America has surpassed them.

There's no 2 teams that know each other better than Canada and USA. Both teams are made up 100% of nhl players, and of course, oftem times there's nhl teammates who are opponents when these teams play each other.
It seems like the orgins of each rivalry are different. Russia seems to come from hatred, and with how competitive the rivalry once was. With America, no matter how lopsided the rivalry is, it will always be huge because of how familiar these 2 teams are with each other.

For all you nfl fans out there, this question is similar to if the biggest rival of the green bay packers is the chicago bears or minnesota vikings. Most of the traditional packer fans will say the bears, just like most traditional canadians will say russia. But most of the younger packer fans will say the vikings, just like most of the younger canadians will say america. Traditionally, the packers biggest rivalry is the bears, but right now, it's the vikings. It's the same for Canada. Traditionally, it's Russia, but right now, it's USA.

Funny thing is, 2 Brett's really heated up both of the new rivalries I mentioned, those Brett's being Hull and Favre. If someone pulled the Brett Hull stunt today after how big this rivalry has grown, USA would definately surpass Russia as Canada's biggest rivalry if it hasn't already.

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Old
03-02-2010, 03:55 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcspence View Post
USA-CAN, and it's not even close.

Every recent Canadian and US NHL player and serious prospect have played with and/or against each other since they were peewees, in exhibition games, tournaments, minor junior, major junior, NCAA, WJC, etc. That constant exposure to each other has built a huge cross-border rivalry.

There's nothing more gratifying for an American hockey team than to beat a Canadian team, and nothing stings more for a Canadian team than losing to Americans.
Except losing to the Russians

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Old
03-02-2010, 04:12 PM
  #54
Canucker1958
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Originally Posted by Pacific NW fan View Post
For all you nfl fans out there, this question is similar to if the biggest rival of the green bay packers is the chicago bears or minnesota vikings. Most of the traditional packer fans will say the bears, just like most traditional canadians will say russia. But most of the younger packer fans will say the vikings, just like most of the younger canadians will say america. Traditionally, the packers biggest rivalry is the bears, but right now, it's the vikings. It's the same for Canada. Traditionally, it's Russia, but right now, it's USA.
But imagine if the Bears had never won anything, and virtually never beat the Packers. Would the Packer fans still consider that a great rivalry?

The USA needs to win a few before they can be considered Canada's main rival. Close only counts in hand grenades and nuclear war.

I'm trying to remember, but has the USA finished ahead of Canada even once at the Olympics since the NHL was invited?

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Old
03-02-2010, 07:04 PM
  #55
missinthejets
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Originally Posted by MayDay View Post
Remind me again, what were the Canadian TV ratings for the Canada-Russia game last week, versus the two Canada-USA games?

Thanks!
comparing quarterfinals on a weeknight to a gold medal game on a weekend?? apples and oranges, regardless of who it was they were playing Canada in a gold medal game was going to draw huge ratings.

Like I said Americans want to believe that they are canada's biggest rival because to americans it's a big deal but to Canadians it's really not as big a deal as it is when we play the russians.

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Old
03-02-2010, 07:30 PM
  #56
Stars and Bolts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canuckshockeyfan View Post
But imagine if the Bears had never won anything, and virtually never beat the Packers. Would the Packer fans still consider that a great rivalry?

The USA needs to win a few before they can be considered Canada's main rival. Close only counts in hand grenades and nuclear war.

I'm trying to remember, but has the USA finished ahead of Canada even once at the Olympics since the NHL was invited?
In this analogy, you're right about Canada=packers. But the bears aren't team USA, they're Russia, while the vikings are team USA. Basically, bears=Russia (traditional rival) and vikings=USA (new, current rival).

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Old
03-02-2010, 07:40 PM
  #57
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For me it will always be Canada/Russia.

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Old
03-02-2010, 07:43 PM
  #58
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I am older, so I say it is still Canada/Russia. I could handle losing to the USA, I would have sunk into a year-long depression had we lost to the Russians.

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Old
03-02-2010, 07:43 PM
  #59
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CAN/RUS just based on skill and quality alone.

US/CAN only because of geography/population/media.


USA is going to have to wait a really long time until they get lucky again like this and make it to the gold medal game. That's how odds work.

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Old
03-02-2010, 07:50 PM
  #60
Callahan Auto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit Wizard Eater View Post
CAN/RUS just based on skill and quality alone.

US/CAN only because of geography/population/media.


USA is going to have to wait a really long time until they get lucky again like this and make it to the gold medal game. That's how odds work.
I think you forgot the , brah. I don't know if you guys care about it up in America's Hatland but we just won World's Juniors this year. Not to mention that our Olympic team was the youngest out of any nation. It's kind of trendy to hate on the US up there (Napoleon complex, I know) but America will be Canada's biggest threat next Olympics, no doubt.

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03-02-2010, 07:50 PM
  #61
oilerfanatic
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Canada and Russia...both are hockey countries that have rich hockey histories and proud of their sport..the US has to win more to have the honour of being our rival..

losing to the russians causes anger..losing to the americans causes embarrasement...

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Old
03-02-2010, 07:57 PM
  #62
oilerfanatic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gift of Gaborik View Post
I think you forgot the , brah. I don't know if you guys care about it up in America's Hatland but we just won World's Juniors this year. Not to mention that our Olympic team was the youngest out of any nation. It's kind of trendy to hate on the US up there (Napoleon complex, I know) but America will be Canada's biggest threat next Olympics, no doubt.
great...where was the US in the previous five? see, to claim a rivalry there has to be some consistency..beating us once in a junior tournament and once in a round robin olympic game does not make a rivalry..you have to keep doing it for a while and win more..

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03-02-2010, 08:06 PM
  #63
Callahan Auto
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Originally Posted by oilerfanatic View Post
great...where was the US in the previous five? see, to claim a rivalry there has to be some consistency..beating us once in a junior tournament and once in a round robin olympic game does not make a rivalry..you have to keep doing it for a while and win more..
I wasn't talking about the history of the rivalry. With that it's really no question. I was merely responding to the implication that the US won't be Canada's biggest rival next Olympics. I mean, it's going to be different because of where the Olympics are going to be held, but, in my opinion, the US is going to be way ahead of Russia by then. They had major flaws exposed and the US team has better young talent. Especially in goal and on D, which is half of the game.

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Old
03-02-2010, 08:08 PM
  #64
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Canada-USA has been the ultimate rivalry for my whole life.

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Old
03-02-2010, 08:13 PM
  #65
oilerfanatic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gift of Gaborik View Post
I wasn't talking about the history of the rivalry. With that it's really no question. I was merely responding to the implication that the US won't be Canada's biggest rival next Olympics. I mean, it's going to be different because of where the Olympics are going to be held, but, in my opinion, the US is going to be way ahead of Russia by then. They had major flaws exposed and the US team has better young talent. Especially in goal and on D, which is half of the game.
you may be underestimating the Russians on the big ice and the fact they're purging their staff right now and trying to improve..they have the players so its just a matter of making coaching/system changes which is possible to do in four years..

but yes, if the Russians don't smarten up US could be the main threat...

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03-02-2010, 08:39 PM
  #66
Gert B Frobe
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So here's a summary of the big tournaments since 1990... I didn't put all the World Championships in there because I got sick of looking them up.

1991 Canada Cup - Canada defeats the US in an awesome game
1992 Olympics - Unified Team (Russia, etc.) defeats Canada (no NHL players)
1994 Olympics - Sweden defeats Canada (no NHL players)
1996 Canada Cup - USA defeats Canada
1998 Olympics - Czech defeats Russia
2002 Olympics - Canada defeats USA (NHL players)
2002 World Championships - Slovakia defeats Russia
2006 Olympics - Sweden defeats Finland
2006 World Championships - Sweden defeats Czechoslovokia
2007 World Championships - Canada defeats Finland
2008 World Championships - Russia defeats Canada
2009 World Championships - Russia defeats Canada
2010 Olympics - Canada defeats USA

I'm sure the 2008 and 2009 are pretty fresh in the minds of Canadian hockey fans.

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Old
03-02-2010, 08:45 PM
  #67
N.Y. Orangeman
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Originally Posted by Hermit Wizard Eater View Post
CAN/RUS just based on skill and quality alone.

US/CAN only because of geography/population/media.


USA is going to have to wait a really long time until they get lucky again like this and make it to the gold medal game. That's how odds work.
Wow...

[U.S. Hockey turns the other cheek and goes back to work]

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03-02-2010, 08:47 PM
  #68
oilerfanatic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaineer View Post
So here's a summary of the big tournaments since 1990... I didn't put all the World Championships in there because I got sick of looking them up.

1991 Canada Cup - Canada defeats the US in an awesome game
1992 Olympics - Unified Team (Russia, etc.) defeats Canada (no NHL players)
1994 Olympics - Sweden defeats Canada (no NHL players)
1996 Canada Cup - USA defeats Canada
1998 Olympics - Czech defeats Russia
2002 Olympics - Canada defeats USA (NHL players)
2002 World Championships - Slovakia defeats Russia
2006 Olympics - Sweden defeats Finland
2006 World Championships - Sweden defeats Czechoslovokia
2007 World Championships - Canada defeats Finland
2008 World Championships - Russia defeats Canada
2009 World Championships - Russia defeats Canada
2010 Olympics - Canada defeats USA

I'm sure the 2008 and 2009 are pretty fresh in the minds of Canadian hockey fans.
in 1996 it was a world cup..and it was to date america's best team...yes you are right the '07 and '08 losses hurt but then again a lot of is luck based who is and isn't in the playoffs..

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03-02-2010, 08:50 PM
  #69
Gert B Frobe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit Wizard Eater View Post
CAN/RUS just based on skill and quality alone.

US/CAN only because of geography/population/media.


USA is going to have to wait a really long time until they get lucky again like this and make it to the gold medal game. That's how odds work.
The USA won every game and never trailed in a game on it's way to the gold medal game vs. Canada. Either you don't know **** about hockey or you are just trying to be insulting.

I know it's just the most recent Olympics but - based on skill and quality - Russia would have gotten smoked by the US just as badly.


Last edited by Gert B Frobe: 03-02-2010 at 09:03 PM.
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Old
03-02-2010, 08:54 PM
  #70
Gert B Frobe
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Originally Posted by oilerfanatic View Post
in 1996 it was a world cup..and it was to date america's best team...yes you are right the '07 and '08 losses hurt but then again a lot of is luck based who is and isn't in the playoffs..
Are you sure? doesn't matter - same tournament anyway. That was a really good US team in 96. The 07 and 08 tournament weren't on TV in the states. Total crap. We didn't get the hockey I have always wanted on TV until recently.

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Old
03-02-2010, 08:55 PM
  #71
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Canada-Russia is the ultimate

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Old
03-02-2010, 09:00 PM
  #72
Gert B Frobe
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Originally Posted by missinthejets View Post
comparing quarterfinals on a weeknight to a gold medal game on a weekend?? apples and oranges, regardless of who it was they were playing Canada in a gold medal game was going to draw huge ratings.

Like I said Americans want to believe that they are canada's biggest rival because to americans it's a big deal but to Canadians it's really not as big a deal as it is when we play the russians.
I think most American hockey fans are intelligent enough (they are hockey fans after all) to know that USA hockey hasn't won anything since 1996. We don't want to believe we are Canada's biggest rival - we just want to be Canada's biggest rival.

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Old
03-02-2010, 09:06 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermit Wizard Eater View Post
CAN/RUS just based on skill and quality alone.

US/CAN only because of geography/population/media.


USA is going to have to wait a really long time until they get lucky again like this and make it to the gold medal game. That's how odds work.
Someone is smelling their a** tonight.....

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Old
03-02-2010, 09:49 PM
  #74
thomasincanada
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Are you sure? doesn't matter - same tournament anyway. That was a really good US team in 96. The 07 and 08 tournament weren't on TV in the states. Total crap. We didn't get the hockey I have always wanted on TV until recently.
That was a hell of a US team in 1996 (World Cup). They matched Canada on paper (or at least close) and beat us on ice. The best American hockey team I have ever seen.

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Old
03-02-2010, 09:50 PM
  #75
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This is a stupid thread. Think of it this way, when the Olympics roll around who do we always worry about?? It sure as hell isn't USA. It's always Russia.

Russia always has good teams laden with star power that everyone wants to talk about, the US will have a good team every few years when the core reaches their prime at the same time.

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