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Deadline deal observations: Grebs and Boyd

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Old
03-03-2010, 03:49 PM
  #1
BigFatCat999
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Deadline deal observations: Grebs and Boyd

Well, here are my observations with the deals:

Nashville got two underachiving RFAs. Grebeshkov in parenthsis because with last night's goal he matched his total last year for goal scoring. When I read the description of Boyd from the Flames fans I was having flashbacks to Hornqvist.

Grebs was the big acquisition because of his 3.1 million contract but he's an RFA. Unless he goes KHL Nashville could sign him for cheap or possibly watch another team give him a QO. Boyd is cheap, 650,000, and an RFA. He plays both center and wing but more built to be a wing. Plays smaller than his size, sound familiar? When playing with talent he excells but he was religated to 4th line status. Wilson-O'Reilly-Boyd?

Jones was released but frankly he was expendable. Boyd for Jones is a better deal based on the stats.

Jones: 41 games, 7 Goals, 4 Assists $975,000 10:42 TOI, 1:33 PP, 0:00 SH
Boyd: 60 games, 8 goals, 11 Assists $650,000 12:41 TOI, 1:05 SH, 0:32 PP

Right now he's a two-way forward. Can be interesting, Calgary fan is pissed.

Let's look at the future:

Sully-Arnott-Dumont
Wilson-O'Reilly-Erat
Ward-Legwand-Tootoo
Smithson-Goc

Are all under contract.

Hornqvist and Boyd are RFAs. Belak is a UFA.

Weber-Suter
Klein-Sulzer

Are under contract

Grebeshkov and Franson are RFAs, Bouillon and Hamhuis are UFAs.

Rinne is signed and Ellis is still a UFA.

What is interesting is how Trotz distributes the time for the defensemen.


Last edited by Seth Lake: 03-03-2010 at 06:11 PM. Reason: Added prefix to title
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03-03-2010, 04:04 PM
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Offensively, Boyd is a step down from Jones. Not a major one, but still a downgrade (.17 gpg for Jones in less time v .13gpg for Boyd). The one positive Boyd brings to this team is the ability to play on the PK, where this team sucks this season, and Jones didn't. This was a move to address an obvious need. The Fiddler-like description is a good sign if he lives up to it. Our PK needs the help.

Grebeshkov addressed the PP issue. 1g, 6a on the PP before the trade.

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03-03-2010, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Offensively, Boyd is a step down from Jones. Not a major one, but still a downgrade (.17 gpg for Jones in less time v .13gpg for Boyd). The one positive Boyd brings to this team is the ability to play on the PK, where this team sucks this season, and Jones didn't. This was a move to address an obvious need. The Fiddler-like description is a good sign if he lives up to it. Our PK needs the help.

Grebeshkov addressed the PP issue. 1g, 6a on the PP before the trade.
Nashville always get's all around players and that's what Boyd and Grebs are, an offensive defenseman and Boyd is a forward who plays sound positionally on the PK.

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03-03-2010, 04:57 PM
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This is an amazing deadline, Im fairly confident Poile knew Edmonton was going to take Jones, there was no need to waive him.

Essentially Grebeshkov and Boyd for 2nd Jones and a 4th. We did not get just rentals but RFAs whom if play well will be here next year also we filled some needs and might have the deepest team in the league. 2 NHL caliber/experienced defensemen in the AHL and an extra 5 or so forwards who could step in and the team would hardly miss a beat.

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03-03-2010, 05:10 PM
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Saying Boyd is a step down from Jones is completely wrong. Boyd is a real good young player that Sutter was killing.

You made a steal on this one, you gonna love the speed and the soft hands of this kid. Give him minutes and you will see by yourself what I mean !

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03-03-2010, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Webersmashpuck View Post
This is an amazing deadline, Im fairly confident Poile knew Edmonton was going to take Jones, there was no need to waive him.

Essentially Grebeshkov and Boyd for 2nd Jones and a 4th. We did not get just rentals but RFAs whom if play well will be here next year also we filled some needs and might have the deepest team in the league. 2 NHL caliber/experienced defensemen in the AHL and an extra 5 or so forwards who could step in and the team would hardly miss a beat.
Bingo, the depth that these moves, the addition of Wilson, and the decision to keep Hamhuis have set us up with great depth and the flexibility needed to succeed.

I'm very pleased with acquiring a young NHL veteran defenseman that was arguably one of Edmonton's best last season that really needed a change of scenery, but provides us with help on the PP and makes for a very deep top 6.

The deal to acquire Boyd was well worth it. A former 2nd rounder that was probably rushed to the NHL and not really given the opportunity to blossom in Calgary. Boyd is a player that I've always come away impressed with whenever I get the opportunity to watch Calgary. Probably needs to fill in his frame a bit more, but love his speed and hockey smarts. A younger version of Fiddler with better offensive instincts and a cheaper contract. Is an RFA at season's end, so I expect him to be worked into the lineup next season as well.

Wilson has scored 4 points (1g, 3a) in his last 4 games and is showing signs of what made him a dominant player in college. A combination of skill and size, Wilson is an excellent addition to the lineup and could easily be the scoring depth we needed. This addition cannot be overlooked, because ultimately I think it was the reason that Poile felt he did not have to overpay to get a scorer at the deadline.

And lastly, a big "Thank You" must go out to the ownership group that told Poile to do what he felt was necessary and allow him to keep Hamhuis for the remainder of the season and not forcing a salary dump (as many expected) after adding Grebeshkov and his contract on Monday. Hamhuis wants to stay in Nashville and has been told that the only way the team can afford to pay to keep him is by making the playoffs and advancing. You want to see a player give a contract performance? I'm willing to bet with the stress of a pregnant wife and a possible mid-season trade off the tables now...Hamhuis will be a key contributor down the stretch and throughout the playoffs.

Poile has given Trotz plenty of bodies to work with, restored the depth throughout the organization to the level it was at pre-Balsillie, and again given us a great opportunity to not only make the playoffs, but also to advance.

It's up to the players now to perform. The competition for ice time will be increased and I believe that the guys within the locker room are going to look around and be happy and excited with what they have and where they want to go...

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03-03-2010, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by GravelTheOne View Post
Saying Boyd is a step down from Jones is completely wrong. Boyd is a real good young player that Sutter was killing.

You made a steal on this one, you gonna love the speed and the soft hands of this kid. Give him minutes and you will see by yourself what I mean !
I hear that! I am hearing alot of good about this kid, just needs to be on the top two lines here in Nashville and the flames fans are saying he will produce. Sutter just didn't use him properly.

I am alot more happy with having Boyd and his potential as opposed to Jones and what we seen already from him. Could very well be the top 2 line guy we need.

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03-03-2010, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by lightning_legwand View Post
I hear that! I am hearing alot of good about this kid, just needs to be on the top two lines here in Nashville and the flames fans are saying he will produce. Sutter just didn't use him properly.

I am alot more happy with having Boyd and his potential as opposed to Jones and what we seen already from him. Could very well be the top 2 line guy we need.
lightning,

You've gotta understand the makeup of our roster on a nightly basis. We're now rolling out 2 scoring lines (Arnott & O'Reilly) and 2 two-way lines (Legwand & Goc) each night. Regardless of where you are on the roster, you will have a good opportunity to score and play with linemates that can support you.

I'm gonna bet that Boyd is worked into the lineup slowly, but believe that wherever he winds up, he will have the chance to succeed. With Wilson having shown some good chemistry with Legwand and Ward prior to the break, I could see him filling that spot and replacing Smithson. Boyd is injury depth right now, but I believe will find his way into the lineup somehow...

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03-03-2010, 05:47 PM
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I agree SLake, I think we are a much better team now then we were a few weeks ago. Sulzer and Franson will be part of a strong d-corps, but I don't think they'll get us through a playoff run this year. Boyd is an improvement over Jones any way you look at it.

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03-03-2010, 05:54 PM
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I agree SLake, I think we are a much better team now then we were a few weeks ago. Sulzer and Franson will be part of a strong d-corps, but I don't think they'll get us through a playoff run this year. Boyd is an improvement over Jones any way you look at it.
Exactly, Sulzer and Franson are part of our future, but each have some issues that they could work on while they keep fresh playing in Milwaukee. At the same time, it will help the Admirals and bolster their chances for a top seed and a deep playoff run.

I believe that prospects develop best in a winning environment. That's exactly what we have in Milwaukee and adding Sulzer and Franson to the mix there will actually be for the betterment of all our prospects at the AHL level...

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03-03-2010, 06:03 PM
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I'm excited about going forward. Sometimes a change of scenery sparks players, and hopefully that translates for both of these players.

Jones just didn't work out here. I can't say I was impressed when he was on the ice this year. Wilson, Thurreson and Spaling.......I think they all have surpassed him. I was always nervous when Jones was on the ice.

I think Hamhuis and Klein are going to both step up ...... Don't know why--- just think the stress is off, and they will buckle down. I really liked the way Klein played on the NY trip.

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03-03-2010, 06:18 PM
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I wouldn't call Boyd an underachiever at all.

Jones had his moments, but he wasn't going to work out here. The writing was on the wall when he got sent down earlier in the year.

When the trade freeze lifted on Monday, I had three desired acquisitions: a two-way winger to play with Legwand and Ward, a second pairing defenseman, and a checking center to bolster the penalty kill. If you count a healthy, productive Wilson, we got all three of those additions. Whether or not Wilson actually rejoins that Legwand line remains to be seen, but I hope to see him there and have Smithson-Boyd-Tootoo take on more of a pure checking/energy role.

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03-03-2010, 06:52 PM
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I know everyone wants to see Smithson and Wilson switch lines but I'm not sure that's the best move. Keeping the Legwand line together gives us a true shut down line and when used properly, they do a great job. They are also known to chip in a few goals here and there. Keeping Wilson where he was last night with O'Reilly and Tootoo may pay dividends. For whatever reason, the three of them clicked. I thought they played a solid game except for a few turnovers but for the most part, they were good. If you leave the lines the way they are, we have the ability to roll 4 lines that all can score and produce some numbers.

Two things that the trade does and having 13 players like we have up front do. 1, if we decide to go to primarily 3 lines in the postseason, like most teams do, we have the depth and skill to do so now. If we need to move Wilson up to the Legwand line, we can do that and boast 3 lines that would be hard to stop on any night while having an energy line when we need to use them. 2, it creates healthy competition between Boyd and anyone else not playing up to snuff. If the 12 who played last night keep their level of play up, Boyd has a hard time getting into the lineup but if someone starts slumping a little, we have the ability to Boyd in and keep team chemistry and add a good two way forward to the lineup. It also provided us with some more depth. Basically we now have a 5th line of Boyd, Spaling and Thuresson and a 4th pairing of Franson and Sulzer.

If we get a little banged up, we have some decent depth now. I like our roster and how it shakes out. I also like Hamhuis wanting to stay here and asking Poile to do that for him. Maybe we can finally make a decent playoff run and generate some money to keep a guy like Hamhuis as opposed to losing him in the offseason.

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03-03-2010, 07:03 PM
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Bob McKenzie:

Nashville is a winner. They got Denis Grebeshkov from the Oilers, and it paid immediate dividends. They picked up Dustin Boyd, who for me is an NHL forward. They're trying to battle for an NHL playoff spot and that certainly helps. What they didn't do was they did not trade Dan Hamhuis. That is an important consideration for the Preds. They could have traded him, there was a market for him, but they decided to hang on to him because they want to make a push to make the playoffs and with Grebeshkov, Hamhuis and Boyd in the lineup, the Preds are a much better team than they were a few days ago.
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=312287

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03-03-2010, 08:47 PM
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Trotz acknowledged that there would be some battling for icetime at this point, but he didn't seem to believe Boyd would need to battle. He called him an "every night" kind of guy, and expects him to play a big role going down the stretch.

Unfortunately, because he really has turned it on lately, if I had to guess it'll be Cal that is odd man out on most nights.

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03-03-2010, 09:17 PM
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I'm going to be a debbie downer and piss off everyone. To have any chance at keeping Hammer we have to be more than a "one and done" team in the playoffs. To have any shot at advancing beyond the first playoff round, we need to finish 6th or better in the regular season. Otherwise we play Chicago or San Jose -- and we don't make it to the second round. And we don't have a chance at keeping Hamhuis because of the money he will command as a UFA.

I've seen a lot of comments about how deep we are, and how we've addressed or pk and pp needs. Is that all we need to catch the teams ahead of us in the standings? IMO we have to finish above 7th place for any shot at a 2nd round playoff appearance. Hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see Greby and Boyd getting us there.

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03-03-2010, 09:59 PM
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I'm going to be a debbie downer and piss off everyone. To have any chance at keeping Hammer we have to be more than a "one and done" team in the playoffs. To have any shot at advancing beyond the first playoff round, we need to finish 6th or better in the regular season. Otherwise we play Chicago or San Jose -- and we don't make it to the second round. And we don't have a chance at keeping Hamhuis because of the money he will command as a UFA.

I've seen a lot of comments about how deep we are, and how we've addressed or pk and pp needs. Is that all we need to catch the teams ahead of us in the standings? IMO we have to finish above 7th place for any shot at a 2nd round playoff appearance. Hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see Greby and Boyd getting us there.
Keeping Hamhuis is not a priority IMO, and certainly isn't the reason we need to be successful in the playoffs. In fact, playoff success could be another reason why Hamhuis will be gone because usually playoff teams have an easier time attracting free agents.

What do you think we should have done differently today?

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03-03-2010, 11:42 PM
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OK, the Hamhuis argument is a little circular. Let me try and clarify...I don't think keeping Hammer is essential to making a run in the playoffs. We are deep at that position. Especially with the addition of Grebeshkov. If we keep Hammer it makes Greby a bit redundant. Most thought signing Greby was a precursor to picking up a top 6 forward. Truth be known, I'll bet that was Poile's strategy as well. It didn't happen.

Yes I know the two trades are supposed help on special teams play. And yes our special teams are atrocious. But is the addition of Grebeshkov and Boyd going to solve our poor play on special teams. I couldn't count the number of times folks on this message board blame our coaching staff for our deficient pp and pk. We didn't pick up the best in the league, we signed serviceable pp and pk guys. Whatever skill these guys may have, they'll probably lose it once our coaches take over. My point is these two will not improve our special teams play enough to move us higher than 7th place. And a I keep saying it, 7th or 8th place for us means a first round loss in the playoffs.

Now, what did I want to happen. Use Hammer and a pick to land a top 6 forward so that we could throw 2 true scoring lines on the ice. Maybe package Ellis and a pick to get the same thing. Could've picked up a back up goalie (Auld was on waivers) to give Rinne a break. I wanted to use our UFAs along with picks or prospects to get offensive help. What could we have picked up for Hammer and Jones? Or Jones and a 2nd? Could we have packaged Santorelli, O'Reilly, Jones, Thuresson? We have a lot of pieces that will never be more than 3rd or 4th line guys offensively, or make a significant contribution to Nashville. Who is going to have a greater impact on our pp, Poni (or another top 6 guy) or Boyd?

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03-04-2010, 12:06 AM
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OK, the Hamhuis argument is a little circular. Let me try and clarify...I don't think keeping Hammer is essential to making a run in the playoffs. We are deep at that position. Especially with the addition of Grebeshkov. If we keep Hammer it makes Greby a bit redundant. Most thought signing Greby was a precursor to picking up a top 6 forward. Truth be known, I'll bet that was Poile's strategy as well. It didn't happen.

Yes I know the two trades are supposed help on special teams play. And yes our special teams are atrocious. But is the addition of Grebeshkov and Boyd going to solve our poor play on special teams. I couldn't count the number of times folks on this message board blame our coaching staff for our deficient pp and pk. We didn't pick up the best in the league, we signed serviceable pp and pk guys. Whatever skill these guys may have, they'll probably lose it once our coaches take over. My point is these two will not improve our special teams play enough to move us higher than 7th place. And a I keep saying it, 7th or 8th place for us means a first round loss in the playoffs.

Now, what did I want to happen. Use Hammer and a pick to land a top 6 forward so that we could throw 2 true scoring lines on the ice. Maybe package Ellis and a pick to get the same thing. Could've picked up a back up goalie (Auld was on waivers) to give Rinne a break. I wanted to use our UFAs along with picks or prospects to get offensive help. What could we have picked up for Hammer and Jones? Or Jones and a 2nd? Could we have packaged Santorelli, O'Reilly, Jones, Thuresson? We have a lot of pieces that will never be more than 3rd or 4th line guys offensively, or make a significant contribution to Nashville. Who is going to have a greater impact on our pp, Poni (or another top 6 guy) or Boyd?
If you're another teams GM why would you trade a top 6 forward for guys that will never be more than 3rd or 4th liners? Wouldn't that be a sure fire way to get yourself fired?

I see your points but trading Hammer was an issue. If you trade him to land a top 6 forward, the PK is still going to suck and possibly more. He has been on the PK for years for us and while it hasn't been his best year, take him away and it makes our PK worse. Would one top 6 forward have changed the outcome of the PP? I doubt it since what you say about the coaches is that they ruin players so adding a guy like Poni probably would've had little to no effect.

The moves we made were subtle yet effective. It allows us to ice 6 defenseman with decent NHL experience except for maybe Klein. All the others have over 3-4 years experience which is important in the playoffs. You build a strong team from the net out and I honestly don't think there is a team that is deeper in their top 6 defensemen then we are. The only teams that might be close are Chicago and Detroit but I think our top pairing is the best of the bunch and our bottom pairing is better than most with the addition of Grebs.

The move of adding Boyd adds depth up front and competition for ice time which will keep anyone from getting lazy in the last 20 games. It also gives us a better 2 way forward than what we had in Jones.

Lastly, and I think this is the biggest component most have missed, adding Wilson for the stretch run. The kid is a beast and has been playing solid hockey in Milwaukee and for us the last 2 months. He brings size, skill and he's only going to get better and we didn't have to give up anything for him. Sure NJ added Kovalchuk, Pittsburgh added Poni but what other team added a forward like Wilson? I think many are underestimating this move. It gives us the ability to roll 4 lines and with as many games as we have this month, the ability to do is is huge. It allows everyone to stay fresh and if other teams have the schedule that we have, they will have to roll 4 lines as well or if they roll 3 lines, we can take advantage of that. We may not have the star power of some teams but I like our top 12 forwards on a nightly basis to get the job done.

Last night we had our big guns score a goal in Arnott and Weber, we had a 4th line guy in Wilson score and had our 3rd pairing defenseman score in Grebs. Not bad that we had contributions from all over the lineup. That's what you need in a playoff chase and in the playoffs. Other teams might have two lines that can score but we have balance which not a lot of teams can say they have.

The other thing we can do if necessary is bump Wilson up to a line with Legwand and ice three pretty good scoring lines. We have versatility that I don't think we had before the trade deadline.

While the moves Poile made weren't glamorous or sexy, the moves made us a deeper team for the stretch run and makes us a threat come the playoffs. Just because San Jose and Chicago will be the first and second seeds doesn't mean we can't play with them. Last time I checked, we've given San Jose a run for their money every time we've played them this year and Chicago still has an achilles heal with their goaltending. Only time will tell but I'd go to battle with this group of guys.

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03-04-2010, 06:28 AM
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JC, who could we have added? It was a weak deadline in terms of top end talent. The moves you saw yesterday were akin to the moves we made...depth. It says something when a secondary scorer like Poni is the jewel of the deadline. We made a pitch, but the Maple Leafs were done listening to offers when they were offered Caputi. With that said, I think we're a better team with Grebs and Boyd than we would have been with just Poni. Picking him up wouldn't have magically gotten us over the hump into the second round. We would have had just about the same chances we have now. And I like this team's build for the playoffs, actually. This isn't the same soft team from the last couple of outings.

The biggest issue now isn't whether or not the new guys contribute...it's whether or not the veterans start contributing. That's what we'll live or die by.

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03-04-2010, 07:43 AM
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I disagree completely with the idea that dumping Hamhuis would have no effect on our playoff run. The guy plays a lot of minutes for us. He's been here a long time and he knows our system. Never assume that a 3rd defenseman like that is easily replaced with some minor salary making defenseman. Or even Grebeshkov, who we saw make a good number of defensive lapses (had Klein made those, we'd still be reading about it, in fact, I'm surprised he wasn't blamed for those too).

I would have liked for there to be another addition scoring wise. But no amount of trades is going to all of a sudden make Sullivan, Arnott, and Dumont be able to contain the puck in the offensive zone for longer than 10 seconds, or to stop floating around. Our biggest issue is those guys, who are supposed to be our leading scorers. They are shells of themselves and are not getting it done. And it will cost us.

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03-04-2010, 09:07 AM
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Seeing how amazing Suter was with Rafalski, you have to wonder if a Suter/Grebeshekov, Weber/Hamhuis, and Boullion/Klein set of pairings would work the best. With that said, I love having Weber and Suter on the ice together. If it gave too big of a role to Grebs, I would immediately pair them back together.

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03-04-2010, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by JCpredator View Post
OK, the Hamhuis argument is a little circular. Let me try and clarify...I don't think keeping Hammer is essential to making a run in the playoffs. We are deep at that position. Especially with the addition of Grebeshkov. If we keep Hammer it makes Greby a bit redundant. Most thought signing Greby was a precursor to picking up a top 6 forward. Truth be known, I'll bet that was Poile's strategy as well. It didn't happen.
Keeping Hammer and adding Grebs allows us to send Franson and Sulzer back to the Admirals so they can finish cooking. Having either of those guys in the lineup with Cube was adding additional pressure to Weber and Suter. Now we don't have to give those guys 30 min a game.

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03-04-2010, 09:18 AM
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glenngineer
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Originally Posted by jlsg View Post
Keeping Hammer and adding Grebs allows us to send Franson and Sulzer back to the Admirals so they can finish cooking. Having either of those guys in the lineup with Cube was adding additional pressure to Weber and Suter. Now we don't have to give those guys 30 min a game.
We don't have to but I wouldn't mind it. It hasn't effected Niederameyer and Lidstrom all these years. Nieds got 31 minutes last night in regulation. Elite defensemen have always played those sort of minutes this late in the season. I'm good with adding Grebs and not having to rely on Franson and Sulzer at this point but at the same time, I wouldn't mind seeing Weber and Suter hitting the 28-30 minute mark each night either. Better players on the ice for longer stretches of time usually ends up having better results. They are also 25 years old, increased ice time should not bother them too much at this points in their career.

I did notice one good thing the other night, Trotz was using the Weber/Suter pairing on the PK which he hadn't done much of this season. Weber has never been used much on the PK but maybe after seeing Weber on the PK in the Olympics Trotz is finally gonna give it a go here. I hope he does because once again, better players on the ice usually is a good thing.

I hope we don't have to use these two that much but if we do, so be it.

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03-04-2010, 09:26 AM
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Point is we won't have to. The way the schedule is this year you'd hate to have your top defensemen run out of gas at the wrong time. It's nice to have the option.

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