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The future of Russian NT could/should be decided in the next 5 days

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Old
02-28-2010, 01:52 AM
  #126
nbbyfan20
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Defending Nabby, I agree with most of you that Nabokov didn't have a chance on most of them execpt for the morrow goal.

About the coaching part, I think Bykov made a mistake by putting Nabokov in there. There are these four guys on team Canada, that practices with him every day. I think their names are Dany Heatley, Joe Thornton, Danny Boyle and Patrick Marleau, I could be mistaken though So, i would think that those four were telling Team Canada were to shoot on Nabokov or their game plan vs Nabokov.

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02-28-2010, 02:00 AM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimi19 View Post
sometimes one player change is all it takes....(e.g. broduer/luongo)
Yeah, comparing a goalie with a skater... A goalie plays 60 minutes, Kovalev would get something like 12-14.

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02-28-2010, 02:09 AM
  #128
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Kovalev, Frolov, or anybody else won't change anything. Bykov wasn't prepared and he had no plan. It's obvious. The whole damn approach was wrong.

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02-28-2010, 03:10 AM
  #129
Alessandro Seren Rosso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazerbullet View Post
Kovalev, Frolov, or anybody else won't change anything. Bykov wasn't prepared and he had no plan. It's obvious. The whole damn approach was wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscle Bob View Post
Lol, maybe it's the time to let the Kovalev argument go?

Ovechkin-Malkin-Semin-Gonchar-Markov = epic fail.
But bring in Kovalev and it would be epic success?
Are you kidding me?
I agree with these posts. This roster was very good. Yes, there were a couple of questionable players (Kozlov?), but, as someone else said, the game was lost long before the puck was dropped.

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Old
02-28-2010, 04:20 AM
  #130
Muscle Bob
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Originally Posted by lazerbullet View Post
After reading that article and some extra thinking, I have a feeling that Russia never had a chance. Let's compare how teams were selected:

Canada: Yzerman had all the time in the world to scout everybody. He had a whole DRW scouting staff to help him out + Kenny Holland, Jim Nill, Scotty Bowman, etc. Babcock, Hitchcock, Lemaire are all ELITE coaches. Canada probably new EVERY weakness that Nabby has. Because they had 4 players from the Sharks, and Babs and Todd are great pals. Team was built to beat Russia.

Russia: Bykov obviously knew the KHLers. But it seems that he had no idea about the NHLers. He used them in a wrong way. No good system on the PP. Ovechkin in a shootout is telling a lot! Nobody with minimal NHL-knowledge would let Ovie to try 3 times. No shutdown line. 5-man units is 20-30 years old story. Afinogenov on the PK (Nothing against Max; he was better than most) And why on earth Russians didn't hire some scouts? It's beyond me.

The game was decided long before the face-off. One side knew almost everything about the opponents. And the other side had very abstract knowledge. Bykov wasn't expecting such a strong start from Canada? Well... hello! That's how they started in Quebec. That's how they start every time. Canada always tries to crush opponents in the first 10-15 minutes.

I don't mind if Bykov stays. (Frankly, I can't see who should replace him) But he has to make some fundamental changes in his approach. More people must be involved with Team Russia. They must hire 2-3 word-class scouts for NA. Team must play with some system. Go and outskate an opponent is not a system.

And tactical "approach" during the game is another story.
Great post.
Any moron saying "butt hwat aboot Kavalev11!!!!" should be referred to this.

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02-28-2010, 11:48 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
I wouldn't go that far.

Russia's defence was letting Canada waltz in to the high-percentage scoring areas.

Switching Nabokov may have provided a wake-up call to his team, but if they had played the same in front of Bryzgalov, I don't see much of a difference in the final score.
I disagree.

Bryzgalov played much better than Nabokov once the switch was made, and our boys sure didnt quit after one period.

I am thinking it was a 5-3 type of game with Bryzgalov in net. Bykov messed up here too. The writing was on the wall when Nabby let in two softies against Latvia of all teams.

Nabokov simply sh** the bed, so to speak. It was our game no matter what but it would have actually been competitive with Bryz playing.

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02-28-2010, 11:56 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by couris View Post
what about the dive of Morozov?
A 9.5 I say.

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03-01-2010, 12:46 AM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscle Bob View Post
Yeah, comparing a goalie with a skater... A goalie plays 60 minutes, Kovalev would get something like 12-14.
this is correct, but one big play from a forward can really bring up the energy and fighting spirit of the rest of the players

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03-01-2010, 12:48 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Muscle Bob View Post
Great post.
Any moron saying "butt hwat aboot Kavalev11!!!!" should be referred to this.
that's the only reason, but it's one of the major ones

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03-01-2010, 01:25 AM
  #135
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There were too many failures to point to a single one. First, the team was poorly constructed. I understand there were political pressures to choose KHLers, but to give you an idea, Marcel freakin' Hossa is one of the top goal scorers in the league! Nuff said.

Second, Bykov had no clue on how to construct his lines and who to use in what situations. Afinogenov needs google maps to play on the PK, and most of his coaching decisions demonstrated a lack of knowledge of the players he had. Poor preparation. Inexcusable!

The Canadians always come out hard and punish the Russians- yet the Russian team was totally not ready to play in that first period against Canada! Bykov again.

Leaving Nabby in too long? Check. Using Ovie again in the shootout? Check. Not tinkering with his D lines? Check. Too much to even count. Bykov was a disaster, and got outcoached again and again. Bykov must go.

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03-01-2010, 03:02 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by dynamoovechkin View Post
There were too many failures to point to a single one. First, the team was poorly constructed. I understand there were political pressures to choose KHLers, but to give you an idea, Marcel freakin' Hossa is one of the top goal scorers in the league! Nuff said.

Second, Bykov had no clue on how to construct his lines and who to use in what situations. Afinogenov needs google maps to play on the PK, and most of his coaching decisions demonstrated a lack of knowledge of the players he had. Poor preparation. Inexcusable!

The Canadians always come out hard and punish the Russians- yet the Russian team was totally not ready to play in that first period against Canada! Bykov again.

Leaving Nabby in too long? Check. Using Ovie again in the shootout? Check. Not tinkering with his D lines? Check. Too much to even count. Bykov was a disaster, and got outcoached again and again. Bykov must go.
great post? check

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03-01-2010, 05:35 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
But let's also be honest, Russia has arguably 4 of the best 5 or 6 individual players in the world, but after that, the depth drops off
that isnt true. players quality isnt problem but attitude i think.

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03-01-2010, 05:38 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by dynamoovechkin View Post

Leaving Nabby in too long? Check. Using Ovie again in the shootout? Check. Not tinkering with his D lines? Check. Too much to even count. Bykov was a disaster, and got outcoached again and again.
i would like to agree with you here.

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03-02-2010, 09:20 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
His personal vendettas against certain players hurt. A guy like Kovalev could have made a huge difference.
lol. That is one player.. And do you really think Kovalev was fit for the type of game Canada brought against Russia?

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03-02-2010, 10:13 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
So just because that goal by Weber against Germany was a great shot, this one was? I haven't looked at the replay but IIRC, it wasn't a great shot.
It was a laser. I remember thinking at the time that it was definitely not Nabokov's fault for missing that one.

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03-02-2010, 10:21 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Nine to Five View Post
but why is it that russia "stopped producing any quality defensemen" after the ussr disintegration? People wanted glory and being a defensemen wasn't the way to achieve that?
Could be. I remember reading somewhere that Markov was actually a forward when he was younger.

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03-03-2010, 12:50 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by BrieresSalary View Post
lol. That is one player.. And do you really think Kovalev was fit for the type of game Canada brought against Russia?
yes of course, he's always played with toughness and grit when it comes to playoffs, and this was basically a playoff type game, kovalev has always shown up in playoff games for the rangers, penguins, habs, he is a strong leader with veteran nhl experience, of course he was fit for that game

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03-03-2010, 12:56 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by dimi19 View Post
yes of course, he's always played with toughness and grit when it comes to playoffs, and this was basically a playoff type game, kovalev has always shown up in playoff games for the rangers, penguins, habs, he is a strong leader with veteran nhl experience, of course he was fit for that game

Of course Mrs. Kovaleva. Every understands your son should have been on the team.

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03-04-2010, 01:06 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Of course Mrs. Kovaleva. Every understands your son should have been on the team.
yes absolutely hehe

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03-04-2010, 03:38 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by pouskin74 View Post
that isnt true. players quality isnt problem but attitude i think.
Quality is a broad term, and in some sense, we didn't have the quality. Specifically: name the Canadian players who weren't at least very solid two way players. Heatley? Idunno, Nash? (total guess). Now name the players on Russia who are average or below average in that respect. It would be much quicker to name the players that ARE two way players, wouldn't it. Or how about players that have shutdown abilities. All of Canada's players were at some time in the playoffs responsible for shutting down the other team's stars. Russia? LOLZ.

To me this was Russia's biggest downfall. Too many superstars who are careless with the puck. Too many superstars who haven't seen their end of the rink enough to be effective against Canada's superstars. Too many superstars who have no responsibility beyond the offensive blueline. I've re-watched the first period of that game about 7 times and a huge reason Russia was embarrassed was because of turnovers (I've said this a billion times in other threads). That's exactly the lack of responsibility I'm talking about. How realistic is it to have players notorious for careless two way play to all of a sudden change their game? A coach can't just change a players style in 5 days (especially if he's got two lines worth of turnover machines).

So what has to happen? Bringing more defensive players for the lower two lines doesn't solve the problem in my opinion. Since your top two lines will still be exposed against Canada in every tournament. There's only one way: it's the responsibility of the players to become smart two way forwards. They have to sacrifice individual success in order have team success. If their hearts hurt as much as they said, if they really had tears in their eyes, then the only way to not repeat the embarrassment in Sochi is simple: they better start begging their NHL coaches to give them more responsibility at every part of the rink. Simple as that.


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03-04-2010, 03:49 AM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmunnuch View Post
Quality is a broad term, and in some sense, we didn't have the quality. Specifically: name the Canadian players who weren't at least very solid two way players. Heatley? Idunno, Perry? (total guess). Now name the players on Russia who are average or below average in that respect. It would be much quicker to name the players that ARE two way players, wouldn't it.

To me this was Russia's biggest downfall. Too many superstars who are careless with the puck. Too many superstars who haven't seen their end of the rink enough to be effective against Canada's superstars. I've re-watched the first period of that game about 7 times and literally the ONLY reason Russia was embarrassed was because of turnovers (I've said this a billion times in other threads). How realistic is it to have players notorious for their turnovers to all of a sudden change their game? A coach can't just change a players style in 5 days (especially if he's got two lines worth of turnover machines).

So what has to happen? Bringing more defensive players for the lower two lines doesn't solve the problem in my opinion, your top two lines will still be exposed against Canada in every tournament. There's only one way: it's the responsibility of the players to become smart two way forwards. They have to sacrifice individual success in order have team success. If the Russian's don't want to be embarrassed in Sochi they better start begging their NHL coaches to give them more defensive responsibility. Simple as that.
I won't pretend to have read it all, but I agree with this post moreso than the others. You can have all the talent in the world, but you still have to play the game and it isn't confined to the offensive zone.

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03-04-2010, 04:45 AM
  #147
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Yes. So maybe Bykov did scout a little bit. Maybe the players didn't listen to their coach. Maybe Bykov kept Nabokov in to send a message to the forwards that the goals aren't his fault and they better shape up. Maybe the players still didn't listen.

Don't you think that the veteran players on Team Russia began to see what was wrong with their playing style? They had two intermissions to talk to the boys and re-adjust. If Bykov didn't see it, I am damn sure some of the vets on the team did.

I mean it's not like Bykov had unlimited practices to iron out strategies and tactics. I think with the exception of maybe 2 players (it's not gonna make a huge difference), this was the roster he needed, he needed the skilled offensive players in the lineup to have a chance against offenses like Canadas, almost every single one. All of those players know the "Canadian brand", they know how Canada's players play...

On the tv show "olympic powers" he wanted the team to play as a team, play for one another. If they weren't willing to grind it out for each other, maybe it's not their time yet.

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03-04-2010, 08:27 AM
  #148
Uhmkay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmunnuch View Post
Quality is a broad term, and in some sense, we didn't have the quality. Specifically: name the Canadian players who weren't at least very solid two way players. Heatley? Idunno, Nash? (total guess). Now name the players on Russia who are average or below average in that respect. It would be much quicker to name the players that ARE two way players, wouldn't it. Or how about players that have shutdown abilities. All of Canada's players were at some time in the playoffs responsible for shutting down the other team's stars. Russia? LOLZ.

To me this was Russia's biggest downfall. Too many superstars who are careless with the puck. Too many superstars who haven't seen their end of the rink enough to be effective against Canada's superstars. Too many superstars who have no responsibility beyond the offensive blueline. I've re-watched the first period of that game about 7 times and a huge reason Russia was embarrassed was because of turnovers (I've said this a billion times in other threads). That's exactly the lack of responsibility I'm talking about. How realistic is it to have players notorious for careless two way play to all of a sudden change their game? A coach can't just change a players style in 5 days (especially if he's got two lines worth of turnover machines).

So what has to happen? Bringing more defensive players for the lower two lines doesn't solve the problem in my opinion. Since your top two lines will still be exposed against Canada in every tournament. There's only one way: it's the responsibility of the players to become smart two way forwards. They have to sacrifice individual success in order have team success. If their hearts hurt as much as they said, if they really had tears in their eyes, then the only way to not repeat the embarrassment in Sochi is simple: they better start begging their NHL coaches to give them more responsibility at every part of the rink. Simple as that.
This is a very good point that I've brought up many times. Russia also doesn't have the quality defensemen that Canada has either. Keith, Doughty and Weber are an amazing trio to build a defense around. Better than Russia has now, and better than anything I see from Russia in the near future.

Nash, is very good in his own zone. He's also on his teams PP and a threat short handed.

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