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Slats Stays The Course

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Old
03-04-2010, 07:12 AM
  #1
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Slats Stays The Course

Quote:
Glen Sather made his big move just over a month ago by acquiring Olli Jokinen from Calgary for Christopher Higgins and Ales Kotalik in a trade that looks better and better every day -- and that would have been a scene-stealer yesterday.

The GM did attempt to improve his team, but found the price for renting Nashville defenseman Dan Hamhuis and/or Columbus winger Raffi Torres too expensive for his taste. There was some discussion with Vancouver about renting pivot Pavol Demitra, Marian Gaborik's running buddy, but nothing of substance developed.

The Blueshirts never had any intention of inquiring about Edmonton defenseman Sheldon Souray. Neither David Booth nor Nathan Horton was available from Florida. And as Sather never had any intention of exchanging young assets for short-term help, there were no moves at the big-league level for the first deadline day since 2001.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...blQyzyEUkY36LL

Chris Higgins is the same basket case in Calgary that he was with the Rangers. In the first period of last night's Calgary-Minnesota game,Higgins had an excellent scoring chance and fell down when he tried to shoot the puck. Ales Kotalik has regressed from his time with the Rangers. Darryl Sutter is the only GM who took on term in any trades. Kotalik has two years remaining at $3 million per and Steve Staios has one more year at $2.7 million.

Calgary traded their #1 pick in 2010 to Phoenix for Jokinen and then Sutter trades Jokinen to the Rangers for a rental and contract with 2 years remaining on it.

Look at that Calgary team. Took on those two contracts. Sutter extended both Rene Bourque and Matt Stajan. They have $3 million in cap space to re-sign Ian White and that's it. Besides Jarome Iginla,it's Langkow,Kotalik,Stajan,Bourque and Hagman all signed for at least the next two seasons.

So all of the Souray stuff was BS. Horton was not available? That's not what the media reports said.

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03-04-2010, 07:30 AM
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after i let everything sink in for a day im really happy with Sather

Yes we should have sold at least one of Ollie, Prospal, or Girardi....but we didn't buy anything and thats pretty awesome

i was scared ****less that we were going to rent Torres or someother worthless player, and im glad we didn't

im not thrilled at the idea that he was entertaining the idea of renting but i am thrilled that at the end of the day he didnt pull the trigger

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03-04-2010, 07:54 AM
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All you have to do is think about how much worse it could have been given Sather's history and you should end up being more or less satisfied with the lack of activity.

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03-04-2010, 08:09 AM
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slats made a huge mistake yesterday. he did not have a good day and we will pay for it in the future. we needed to sell whatever we could and improve our draft pick stock and our draft position.

no, he shouldnt have sold young assets for rentals, that was obviously not the play, but by not selling off guys who would seem to have had value he pretty much assured us of mediocrity. and that word is what defines this organization.

there is absolutely no reason why prospal is still on this team today. none. the only reason would be that there were no teams interested and i find that hard to believe. in fact, he should have been vigorously shopped along with joker, rozy and girardi. those were the 4 guys that should have been shopped and should have been moved. even if he needed to sweeten a deal with a prospect to rid us of rozy, he should have done so. all of them could have atleast brought us a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

winning those 2 games before the break and then scoring 4 in the 2nd in ott really messed stuff up. it allowed slats to get back to that "were still in it" mentality and thus, we end up with basically the same squad we had before the break. the same squad that will probably just miss the playoffs and thus assure us of another mid 1st rounder that will inevitably turn into the next "3rd line grinder type" that we seem to always have to many of.

nope, imo, slats skrewed the pooch yesterday and in doing so, we the fans get to be the pooch today.

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03-04-2010, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBurd View Post
All you have to do is think about how much worse it could have been given Sather's history and you should end up being more or less satisfied with the lack of activity.
That's true, it could have been much worse, but at the same time it could have been better. The general consensus on these boards say thay he probably should have sold some pieces. While it was highly unlikely that he would sell given the team's situation of city and owner, it would have been the wise thing to do.

I don't think that Jokinen and Prospal are coming back (unless both take similar deals which I can't see happening (or in Jokers case even less money) so it would have been worthwhile to get something of value for them.

I am happy that he didn't mortgage the future for rentals, so in that regard I have to give credit where credit is due.

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03-04-2010, 08:30 AM
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Best line in the article: "The Rangers didn't improve yesterday. Neither did the competition. We'd call it a tie, except they don't exist in the NHL."

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03-04-2010, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by NYSportsfan6230 View Post
That's true, it could have been much worse, but at the same time it could have been better. The general consensus on these boards say thay he probably should have sold some pieces. While it was highly unlikely that he would sell given the team's situation of city and owner, it would have been the wise thing to do.

I don't think that Jokinen and Prospal are coming back (unless both take similar deals which I can't see happening (or in Jokers case even less money) so it would have been worthwhile to get something of value for them.

I am happy that he didn't mortgage the future for rentals, so in that regard I have to give credit where credit is due.
I certainly don't give him any credit. I just can't get upset given the reality. As a buyer, nothing good could have happened. As a seller (the prudent course)... well just look at their history as sellers and the prospects/picks that they have gotten. Not the brightest group of talent scouts to say the least. Now it would have been better. Maybe lightning strikes and they draft exceptionally well. Maybe Sather is out by the time they draft one of the picks and somebody competent takes over (I'm so holding my breath). So of course it would have been better had they sold. But the fact that it absolutely wasn't going to happen but for a healthy dose of delusion on the part of the inexplicably hopeful fans... coupled with the fact that even had they sold, the chances of anything good coming of it is as likely as Alex Bourret salvaging his HOF career... and you can't help but be morbidly satisfied with Sather and company simply not screwing up and digging an even deeper grave.

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03-04-2010, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBurd View Post
I certainly don't give him any credit. I just can't get upset given the reality. As a buyer, nothing good could have happened. As a seller (the prudent course)... well just look at their history as sellers and the prospects/picks that they have gotten. Not the brightest group of talent scouts to say the least. Now it would have been better. Maybe lightning strikes and they draft well exceptionally well. Maybe Sather is out by the time they draft one of the picks and somebody competent takes over (I'm so holding my breath). So of course it would have been better had they sold. But the fact that it absolutely wasn't going to happen but for a healthy dose of delusion on the part of the inexplicably hopeful fans... coupled with the fact that even had they sold, the chances of anything good coming of it is as likely as Alex Bourret salvaging his HOF career... and you can't help but be morbidly satisfied with Sather and company simply not screwing up and digging an even deeper grave.
Agreed, the market was definitely bad yesterday, but I think given the the 2nd round picks being thrown around for mediocre players we could have gotten some of those picks, but you're right it was highly unlikely.

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03-04-2010, 08:53 AM
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The Blueshirts never had any intention of inquiring about Edmonton defenseman Sheldon Souray. Neither David Booth nor Nathan Horton was available from Florida. And as Sather never had any intention of exchanging young assets for short-term help, there were no moves at the big-league level for the first deadline day since 2001.

Let's think about this for a second. Starting with Souray, how many different places reported this? I mean it was all over the place, but the question is...Did that official blurb about "the Rangers were on Souray's list of teams" just make every beat writer on both sides of the fence(NY/EDM) just speculate? Didn't that original piece come from the Post anyways?

Also, I kind if find it hard to believe that Booth and Horton weren't available. I mean the Florida brass pretty much said nobody is safe there. Then in Larry next breath he said they never had any intention of trading young assets for short term help. Does that mean that Horton and Booth were available if the Rangers were to part with some of the youth? This piece is confusing, as it almost seems that Larry is pointing the finger here at HF boards by saying the three main players we all discussed here in lenght were never available, but he doesn't quote Sather as the source for his piece. Just says they were never available.

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03-04-2010, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
slats made a huge mistake yesterday. he did not have a good day and we will pay for it in the future. we needed to sell whatever we could and improve our draft pick stock and our draft position.

no, he shouldnt have sold young assets for rentals, that was obviously not the play, but by not selling off guys who would seem to have had value he pretty much assured us of mediocrity. and that word is what defines this organization.

there is absolutely no reason why prospal is still on this team today. none. the only reason would be that there were no teams interested and i find that hard to believe. in fact, he should have been vigorously shopped along with joker, rozy and girardi. those were the 4 guys that should have been shopped and should have been moved. even if he needed to sweeten a deal with a prospect to rid us of rozy, he should have done so. all of them could have atleast brought us a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

winning those 2 games before the break and then scoring 4 in the 2nd in ott really messed stuff up. it allowed slats to get back to that "were still in it" mentality and thus, we end up with basically the same squad we had before the break. the same squad that will probably just miss the playoffs and thus assure us of another mid 1st rounder that will inevitably turn into the next "3rd line grinder type" that we seem to always have to many of.

nope, imo, slats skrewed the pooch yesterday and in doing so, we the fans get to be the pooch today.
If you're a franchise as prestigious as the Rangers, you don't go firesale when you're on the brink of the playoffs.

And to argue that not selling prospal is going to be the downfall of our prospect core is ridiculous. We're pretty well off in that department and we've been drafting well, even outside of the first round.

I've argued this before that some people seem to not get that mediocrity isn't the worst position you can be in. You can be perpetually bad. This idea that the worst thing in the world is to make the playoffs each year as a lower seed is crazy.

Also with mediocrity again, it's perfectly legal in the NHL to go from mediocre to elite. This "stuck in mediocrity" notion is a farce.

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03-04-2010, 09:15 AM
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This whole selling buisness is bananas. We are 1 point out of playoffs. Why would we get rid of prospal For a second in one of the weekest drafts in years?!? He is one of our best players, and he will come cheap. Where are you going to get a top 2 line guy with his skills and passion for that price? Joikenin, this guy loves to play for coaches that push him hard. Maybe playing for torts over the long term could re ignite his game. I still think he is a keeper for now. The problem is even if we did have a fire sale, were still to far in points to get a top 4 pick. If your not high in this draft, it's almost worthless. (you could wind up with a diamond in the Roth, but not with this organizations drafting skills. And yes I know about where lundqvist was drafted)

ps. Sorry for miss spells and spacing, typed this on phone during safety training at work.

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03-04-2010, 09:17 AM
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No franchise sells when it's on the brink of playoffs. It would be unprecedented. We're talking about a team who is tied for 8th place in the East. The talk about selling and tanking makes me sick to my stomach.

This team is building a fine corps of young players. Let them do their thing. As long as Sather stops making bad FA signings, we're headed in the right direction.

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03-04-2010, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
If you're a franchise as prestigious as the Rangers, you don't go firesale when you're on the brink of the playoffs.

And to argue that not selling prospal is going to be the downfall of our prospect core is ridiculous. We're pretty well off in that department and we've been drafting well, even outside of the first round.

I've argued this before that some people seem to not get that mediocrity isn't the worst position you can be in. You can be perpetually bad. This idea that the worst thing in the world is to make the playoffs each year as a lower seed is crazy.

Also with mediocrity again, it's perfectly legal in the NHL to go from mediocre to elite. This "stuck in mediocrity" notion is a farce.
This!! At least 1 other person here gets it!

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03-04-2010, 09:29 AM
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Yea I had to get over the initial disappointment of not getting any value for our expiring contracts... But the more I think about it, the more I'm happy with what Sather did yesterday.

Instead of making a stupid move, he kept all of our youth.

And the young guys he wanted to trade for, apparently weren't made available for a decent price.

So, I can't get on Sather about it.

Just draft well in June and be smart on July 1st.

Still hoping for El Nino.

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03-04-2010, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torts Kinda Guy View Post
This whole selling buisness is bananas. We are 1 point out of playoffs. Why would we get rid of prospal For a second in one of the weekest drafts in years?!? He is one of our best players, and he will come cheap. Where are you going to get a top 2 line guy with his skills and passion for that price? Joikenin, this guy loves to play for coaches that push him hard. Maybe playing for torts over the long term could re ignite his game. I still think he is a keeper for now. The problem is even if we did have a fire sale, were still to far in points to get a top 4 pick. If your not high in this draft, it's almost worthless. (you could wind up with a diamond in the Roth, but not with this organizations drafting skills. And yes I know about where lundqvist was drafted)

ps. Sorry for miss spells and spacing, typed this on phone during safety training at work.
This is not a weak draft. It is next year that is being talked about as a historically poor draft. I will agree that, given the Rangers current playoff poisition, it was unlikely the organization would trade their 2nd leading scorer. However, for the long term benefit of the franchise, a deal should have been investigated. Jokinen is a different matter.

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03-04-2010, 09:32 AM
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If Sather gets me El Nino, I will be effing happy.

I have a strong feeling that kid will be a special player.

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03-04-2010, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
If you're a franchise as prestigious as the Rangers, you don't go firesale when you're on the brink of the playoffs.

And to argue that not selling prospal is going to be the downfall of our prospect core is ridiculous. We're pretty well off in that department and we've been drafting well, even outside of the first round.

I've argued this before that some people seem to not get that mediocrity isn't the worst position you can be in. You can be perpetually bad. This idea that the worst thing in the world is to make the playoffs each year as a lower seed is crazy.

Also with mediocrity again, it's perfectly legal in the NHL to go from mediocre to elite. This "stuck in mediocrity" notion is a farce.
dude, your reading comprehension is well..... not good.

first, no where in my post did i infer, at all, not even close, that not selling prospal is going to be the" downfall of our prospect core". where you got that from is beyond me.

going "firesale" is one way to look at selling assets to get better for the longterm. not doing that assures we will be mediocre long term. slats needs to make the playoffs this year. period. and that mentality is exactly what will keep us from challenging for a cup for years to come.

second, being mediocre is a bad thing. being mediocre for a long time, is a very bad thing.

slats had a chance to sell some assets and improve our position in the draft. he didnt. he blew it because of his stupid "were still in it" crap.

sometimes you need to hit bottom to get to the top of the mountain. the penguins did it, the blackhawks are doing it, the isles are on their way there, and you watch, the oilers will be the next team to draft well and start building a winning team.

and one more thing, we may be looking at prospal signing elsewhere next season for money we arent willing/able to offer him and then what do we have ? nada.

im sorry, dont preach about prestige to me, getting biotch slapped in 4 games in the playoffs to me is about as far away from prestige as you could get.


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03-04-2010, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Yea I had to get over the initial disappointment of not getting any value for our expiring contracts... But the more I think about it, the more I'm happy with what Sather did yesterday.

Instead of making a stupid move, he kept all of our youth.

And the young guys he wanted to trade for, apparently weren't made available for a decent price.

So, I can't get on Sather about it.

Just draft well in June and be smart on July 1st.

Still hoping for El Nino.
There will be good players avaiable in the middle of the 1st round...players like Granlund and Kabanov could fall, while raw projects like Bjustad and Sheahan should be around at that time. You can get top notch players outside the top ten.

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03-04-2010, 09:36 AM
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Selling was never an option for Sather. Ownership was not going to give Sather the OK to start selling assets when they're on the brink of making the playoffs.

Are the Rangers going to win the cup this year? No. But this is a business, and first round playoff revenue is more appealing to the Dolans than an empty arena for the last 20 games of the season.

So Sather's two choices were to stay the course or buy, and Glen made the right decision.

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03-04-2010, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
I've argued this before that some people seem to not get that mediocrity isn't the worst position you can be in. You can be perpetually bad. This idea that the worst thing in the world is to make the playoffs each year as a lower seed is crazy.

Also with mediocrity again, it's perfectly legal in the NHL to go from mediocre to elite. This "stuck in mediocrity" notion is a farce.
I agreed with you right up to this point. It bugs me because itís so damn passive. Youíre knocking fans (who Iíll admit can be very melodramatic/irrational) for wanting more from this franchise. After 10 seasons (hell, after 5 seasons post-lockout), is the idea that the they should be more than a bubble team the worst thing in the world? Is not being satisfied with mediocrity the worst thing in the world? How can you look at this franchise, historically, and come away thinking that being stuck in mediocrity is a farce? The Rangers have made mediocrity an art form. And the organizational trend from 1926 Ė Present remains unchanged. High-priced talent, minimal return.

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03-04-2010, 09:39 AM
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slats made a huge mistake yesterday. he did not have a good day and we will pay for it in the future. we needed to sell whatever we could and improve our draft pick stock and our draft position.

no, he shouldnt have sold young assets for rentals, that was obviously not the play, but by not selling off guys who would seem to have had value he pretty much assured us of mediocrity. and that word is what defines this organization.

there is absolutely no reason why prospal is still on this team today. none. the only reason would be that there were no teams interested and i find that hard to believe. in fact, he should have been vigorously shopped along with joker, rozy and girardi. those were the 4 guys that should have been shopped and should have been moved. even if he needed to sweeten a deal with a prospect to rid us of rozy, he should have done so. all of them could have atleast brought us a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

winning those 2 games before the break and then scoring 4 in the 2nd in ott really messed stuff up. it allowed slats to get back to that "were still in it" mentality and thus, we end up with basically the same squad we had before the break. the same squad that will probably just miss the playoffs and thus assure us of another mid 1st rounder that will inevitably turn into the next "3rd line grinder type" that we seem to always have to many of.

nope, imo, slats skrewed the pooch yesterday and in doing so, we the fans get to be the pooch today.
You ready for this one, crossbar? I agree.

Prospal, Jokinen, and, to a lesser extent, Girardi really shouldnt be viewed as longterm solutions for this franchise. Im willing to bet all 3 could have been unloaded for 3 additional picks in the top 100 for the 2010 draft.

But you just have to realize that playoff revenue is the determining factor, and this organization is never going to place the importantance of a longterm vision, over the prospect of a modest short-term gain, which in this case will be getting manhandled by one of the top seeds in the playoffs. But hey, if Dolan gets to open the gates at MSG 2 or 3 more times, it all seems to be worth it apparently.

Sather, in his defense, has not let this mandate force him to trade away prospects over the last several years. This sort of philosophy might work in the future when we rid ourselves of the cap choking contracts of Drury and Redden. Most of us realize we wont be true contenders until this happens, and for now, we should be acquiring as many assets as humanly possible.

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03-04-2010, 09:39 AM
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could it have been better ? yeah sure

could it have been worse ? oh man yes it could have !

with all said and done, the team has an outside chance at the playoffs and didn't hurt themselves going forward.

Slats ain't my favorite but I am sure there was pressure to "do something" and he didn't.

what did frustrate me was seeing that Lisin was waived... I still miss Korpikoski

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03-04-2010, 09:44 AM
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If you're a franchise as prestigious as the Rangers, you don't go firesale when you're on the brink of the playoffs.
I have no idea what you're trying to say here...what does being the New York Rangers have to do with it? I can mention a lot of 'prestigious' NHL franchises that have sold off assets to prepare for the future.

Quote:
I've argued this before that some people seem to not get that mediocrity isn't the worst position you can be in. You can be perpetually bad.
Are you actually trying to DEFEND Sather with these statements???

Quote:
Also with mediocrity again, it's perfectly legal in the NHL to go from mediocre to elite. This "stuck in mediocrity" notion is a farce.
...except we are still in 'mediocrity', with no signs of moving toward elite. None. Zero.

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03-04-2010, 09:55 AM
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dude, your reading comprehension is well..... not good.

first, no where in my post did i infer, at all, not even close, that not selling prospal is going to be the" downfall of our prospect core". where you got that from is beyond me.

going "firesale" is one way to look at selling assets to get better for the longterm. not doing that assures we will be mediocre long term. slats needs to make the playoffs this year. period. and that mentality is exactly what will keep us from challenging for a cup for years to come.

second, being mediocre is a bad thing. being mediocre for a long time, is a very bad thing.

slats had a chance to sell some assets and improve our position in the draft. he didnt. he blew it because of his stupid "were still in it" crap.

sometimes you need to hit bottom to get to the top of the mountain. the penguins did it, the blackhawks are doing it, the isles are on their way there, and you watch, the oilers will be the next team to draft well and start building a winning team.

and one more thing, we may be looking at prospal signing elsewhere next season for money we arent willing/able to offer him and then what do we have ? nada.

im sorry, dont preach about prestige to me, getting biotch slapped in 4 games in the playoffs to me is about as far away from prestige as you could get.

"no, he shouldnt have sold young assets for rentals, that was obviously not the play, but by not selling off guys who would seem to have had value he pretty much assured us of mediocrity." Sound familiar? Well it sounds like by not selling off guys we're pretty much assured of mediocrity. I know my last statement seemed like it was going to be a rephrasing of yours in clearer terms and ended up taking what you said almost verbatim but that's because you were clear; not selling prospal will keep us from being good in the future, which I'll continue to say is crazy.

I'm not saying being mediocre is good, I'm trying to remind people there's something below that and we should realize that.

We are still in it...

Some teams have had success right after a period of being in the toilet, others have had success after periods of decent play. Usually it's the latter that become consistent winners (think red wings, devils)

And prestige isn't about how good the current team is. It's talking about the Rangers as a franchise. Their history, their management, their location, their fans.

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03-04-2010, 09:56 AM
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Kel Varnsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
I have no idea what you're trying to say here...what does being the New York Rangers have to do with it? I can mention a lot of 'prestigious' NHL franchises that have sold off assets to prepare for the future.



Are you actually trying to DEFEND Sather with these statements???



...except we are still in 'mediocrity', with no signs of moving toward elite. None. Zero.
If you want to ignore facts and rationality I won't come along for the ride.

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