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Fire Paul Holmgren Thread (and related front office screwups) - 09/10 Edition

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Old
03-04-2010, 10:54 AM
  #251
TheDrizzle81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Why would I give a **** if Habs or Toronto fans laugh at us for signing Emery? I had little problem with the signing to be honest. Like I said, I have a problem with Homer not having any backup plan besides waivers. If you take a gamble on a guy like Emery (he was a low risk, high reward gamble), then you NEED a FREAKING Plan B not named BRIAN BOUCHER. At least have some picks or prospects that you can dangle mid-season if things go awry. Homer had nothing and we paid for it.

Emery's injuries are not his fault. Holmer's lack of a Plan B is my problem. If Emery was healthy, I fully expect him to be your typical average goalie right now. And Emery has Stanley Cup Finals experience which is something we lack.

Not to mention Emery was 26 when we signed him, if he played well, he could have been a legit long-term solution here. I know goalie "prospects" who are freaking 27 ALREADY. Emery was 26 and established in both the NHL and KHL.

Like I told some Pens fan, Emery was not in the KHL because of his play, but because of his attitude. It was a good lesson for him. He had no attitude problems since arriving here.
Healthy Ray Emery + Lavi's defensive plan = playoff run

Michael leighton + Lavi's Defensive Plan = Playoff apperance.

Brian Boucher + Lavi's Defensive Plan = WWIII

Im with you Snipe, Emery isnt the issue, a gamble i was OK with (and when he was healthy looked great) its the fact he had no plan B and couldnt have one because hes awful at money and asset management.

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03-04-2010, 10:57 AM
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I'll already give you an answer. It'll be something like "well, qualifying for the playoffs now is harder than ever because there is parity around the league. We assembled what we thought was the best team possible, but it's clear that the best wasn't good enough. Sometimes, the chips just don't fall in your favour. Nobody ever said making the playoffs was a guarantee."

Someone will then ask him if maybe he should have secured the goaltending position and his response will be something like "We did address the goaltending situation last season. We signed Ray Emery because we believed he was a Stanley Cup caliber goalie. Nobody expected Ray to have avascular necrosis. Once we found out what the diagnosis was, we tried to address the goaltending, but we felt comfortable with Leighton and Boucher, two capable and proven goaltenders in the NHL. We didn't feel the need to go out and acquire a top goaltender like Vokoun or go after a promising youngster like Halak or Schneider simply because the asking price was too high and we just didn't have the assets."

Then we can expect a question about letting Jones come through on re-entry waivers and the cap hit that that took and the answer will be "Randy Jones is an excellent team player and a good hockey player. We felt that as an organization we owed it to Randy to bring him up and find him a place on an NHL roster. We knew the chances bringing him through waivers and while we're sad that we lost Randy, we also did right by Randy. We might have hurt ourselves in the process by taking the cap hit, but it's important to show players that this franchise cares about them and that we're willing to do what it takes to look after them. I'm sure Randy Jones will forever be grateful for what the Philadelphia Flyers did for his career."

And then someone will rush the podium and club Holmgren upside the head with a black jack and knock some sense into him and he then realizes just how much he screwed this franchise and quits on the spot. The End. Yay!!!!!
Wow...That is spot on

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03-04-2010, 11:13 AM
  #253
RoDu
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Homer rolled the dice on Emery, as all he had left to get a goalie was the teams spare change

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03-04-2010, 11:27 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by RoDu View Post
Homer rolled the dice on Emery, as all he had left to get a goalie was the teams spare change
Sadly, not true, he made the decision on Emery before we even got to July 1st.

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03-04-2010, 11:33 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Sadly, not true, he made the decision on Emery before we even got to July 1st.
Which in hindsight was a huge mistake. We probably shoulda waited until at least July 1st to test the waters of the market...

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03-04-2010, 11:38 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by JCannon18 View Post
Which in hindsight was a huge mistake. We probably shoulda waited until at least July 1st to test the waters of the market...
Well, again, a lot of us here didn't need hindsight to question that decision. Personally, I never liked it...and I'm not really special on that front.

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03-04-2010, 11:46 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by JCannon18 View Post
Which in hindsight was a huge mistake. We probably shoulda waited until at least July 1st to test the waters of the market...
In all honesty, it really wasn't a mistake. Injuries are a ***** and no one was expecting something like this. Emery was solid until he started feeling the injury.

Emery really was our best bet. Biron was asking for too much and we had made the Pronger trade which took away any of our assets at that time to make a trade. JVR hadn't proved himself at the time and Giroux hadn't had a full season under his belt. We needed Parent because we didn't know what we had in Bartulis or Syvret. I can definitely understand not trading one of them for an elite goalie.

The thing I'm angry with Homer is that at a time where we NEEDED to make a trade, nothing happened. I was totally against trading Giroux or JVR yesterday, but Parent and a pick/prospect or something or the other would be just fine in my eyes.

I'm no GM so I don't know what the asking prices for Ellis/Roloson were, but Homer announcing that our starter was out for the season definitely affected those prices.

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03-04-2010, 11:56 AM
  #258
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I never thought Vokoun was ever in play. If Florida decides to move him it will be next trade deadline. he will be a UFA in 11.
I would have taken Roloson if he was a UFA after this season. The Isles giving a 40 year old goalie 2 years was just dumb.
Dont think Biron was going to come here. Too many bad feelings from the Flyers perspective last July IMO
So that leaves us with Dan Ellis. What would of the cost been? Parent and a pick or something else?
I dont know if you can trade Parent without getting another one back.

I would have loved for a Coburn/Parent for Ellis/Hamhuis swap. yeah I know we probably would have to add something. then maybe the Flyers could have gone out and gotten Jurcina for depth as well.
Yes it would have been a risk with Hamhuis being a UFA after this season, but at least we would have been without the question marks in goal we have now.

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03-04-2010, 12:22 PM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Well, again, a lot of us here didn't need hindsight to question that decision. Personally, I never liked it...and I'm not really special on that front.
Signing Emery was not a bad move. Had he stayed healthy, there would be no problem in net. People's concern's about Emery weren't that his hip was going to explode.

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03-04-2010, 12:35 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Signing Emery was not a bad move. Had he stayed healthy, there would be no problem in net. People's concern's about Emery weren't that his hip was going to explode.
Actually, people had specific concerns about his ability to carry the necessary load...myself and FlyHigh for sure, and I'm sure others as well that I cannot recall off the top of my head. By putting Boucher behind him, you were setting him up to play A LOT, and if you go back to the beginning of the season you will find myself (again, and others) questioning how much we were playing him...because it was putting him at risk for injury.

Without a real backup plan, or the cap space and assets to fix the situation if he did get hurt (always a possibility with goalies), Holmgren made this team very fragile...and here we are.

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03-04-2010, 12:48 PM
  #261
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Sooooo looking ahead what do you guys think of giving Harding a 2 year deal and see what he can do?

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03-04-2010, 12:48 PM
  #262
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Signing Emery wasn't a bad move. It was never signing a guy like Anderson rather then Boucher that was the bad move.

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03-04-2010, 01:01 PM
  #263
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So the Flyers have one of the top forwards corps in the East, one of the top defensive corps in the East, and a great coach, but the GM should be fired?

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03-04-2010, 01:02 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
So the Flyers have one of the top forwards corps in the East, one of the top defensive corps in the East, and a great coach, but the GM should be fired?
You forgot to mention Michael Leighton and Brian Boucher.

Makes a HUGE difference.

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03-04-2010, 01:03 PM
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
You forgot to mention Michael Leighton and Brian Boucher.

Makes a HUGE difference.
He didn't forget them, they just don't support his argument so he removes them from his narrative.

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03-04-2010, 01:03 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
So the Flyers have one of the top forwards corps in the East, one of the top defensive corps in the East, and a great coach, but the GM should be fired?
Yes he should, do you disagree? If so why?

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03-04-2010, 01:10 PM
  #267
middletoe
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
So the Flyers have one of the top forwards corps in the East, one of the top defensive corps in the East, and a great coach, but the GM should be fired?
I bought a chain the other day. The best money could buy. Got $2 off cause it had a weak link. Boss wasn't too happy with me when it broke.

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03-04-2010, 01:12 PM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
You forgot to mention Michael Leighton and Brian Boucher.

Makes a HUGE difference.
You forgot to mention Emery.

Makes a HUGE difference.

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03-04-2010, 01:14 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
You forgot to mention Michael Leighton and Brian Boucher.

Makes a HUGE difference.
It's JXC.

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03-04-2010, 01:16 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by middletoe View Post
I bought a chain the other day. The best money could buy. Got $2 off cause it had a weak link. Boss wasn't too happy with me when it broke.
Did you tell him to **** off? After all, he approved the purchase.

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03-04-2010, 01:16 PM
  #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
So the Flyers have one of the top forwards corps in the East, one of the top defensive corps in the East, and a great coach, but the GM should be fired?
The Flyers dont have a great defensive group. they have 2 great defenseman. After that there is guys that are decent to not so good defensively.(yes there is Parent. But he needs to stay healthy)
The forward group is fine as it is. Looks like they are on a roll now.
Of course you leave out the goaltending which leaves alot to be desired right now.
Just will never understand how Holmgren can think that everything is fine with the goaltending. Whats going to happen when the intensity and pressure get racked up a couple of notches next month? Can Leighton handle it? oh wait, we have Boucher to fall back on

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03-04-2010, 01:17 PM
  #272
IrishSniper87
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Originally Posted by middletoe View Post
I bought a chain the other day. The best money could buy. Got $2 off cause it had a broken link. Boss wasn't too happy with me when it broke.
You can put an all-star team out there, but with Leighton or Boucher in net, it will implode eventually. Especially when the pressure mounts.

I'm not even concerned with making the playoffs. We CAN make the playoffs with these two. I'm worried about beating the Pens or Caps in best of 7 play. That **** just ain't happening with Leighton in net. We can outplay the Pens the entire series and still lose to Crobsy, Malkin and Fleury.

The Caps would be more beatable in a sense, but their offense is ripe for bending Leighton over ..... the net.

At this point, I'm praying to the hockey gods that Leighton becomes a man possessed and takes us somewhere. I'm just not holding my breathe.

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03-04-2010, 01:18 PM
  #273
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I'm still shocked that neither you guys nor Washington made a hard play for Vokoun. I really think both teams are a solid goaltender away for a lock for a Stanley Cup.

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03-04-2010, 01:18 PM
  #274
IrishSniper87
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
You forgot to mention Emery.

Makes a HUGE difference.
Emery's career could be over. And a healthy Emery is FAR better then both of Boucher and Leighton.

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03-04-2010, 01:19 PM
  #275
IrishSniper87
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I'm still shocked that neither you guys nor Washington made a hard play for Vokoun. I really think both teams are a solid goaltender away for a lock for a Stanley Cup.
Florida should trade Vokoun. He looks like the only thing keeping them from a lottery pick.

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