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[MTL/STL] Matt D'Agostini for Aaron Palushaj

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Old
03-04-2010, 11:19 AM
  #276
montreal
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Originally Posted by Montréal Russians View Post
To me its clear St. louis thinks D'ago has good potential to be a scorer for them. In Montreal he showed he had a good shot, but seemed to be tunnel visioned. In Palushaj we get the familiarity advantage. As already mentioned Patches and Palu know each other well. See a trend in the Montreal organization? We get Ryan White, soon after we sign Trotter. Both knew each other from Manitoba. We acquire Maxwell, and a year or two later we trade a 7th for Ryan Russell, the captain of the former teammate and captain of the Kootenay Ice. We sign Dany Masse and Lefevre, both of whom played on Guy Bouchers club last season. Not to mention the signing of Desharnais who was playing on a team Carbonneau owned.

So the Habs brass, and probably Timmins really feel as if former relationships are important, and they are. Clearly the main philosophy of both Timmins and Gauthier is to create a family atmosphere. I completely agree with this.

Now on a further note on Palushaj, those who feel he may not reach the NHL can simply look at a player like Mike Ribeiro. Not the most physical guy, but clearly has skill and judging on Palushaj's statistics he does have skill. He is only 20 years old and likely will make the NHL at 22. Look for he and Pacioretty to make the Canadiens on the same line. I can really see a future line of Pacioretty - Leblanc - Palushaj.
Good point. The Habs sure do like to draft/acquire players that know one another.

On top of the players you listed, we drafted Jon Gleed who was a teammate of Ryan O'Byrne's. Then there's the whole Montreal Rocket thing, with Lappy/Urquhart/Bonneau who we drafted the year after drafting their teammate Lambert. Balej was a teammate of Hossa's at Portland. Dulac-Lemelin was a teammate of Loic Lacasse. Greg Stewart was a teammate of Mark Floods. Mike Komisarek was a teammate of draft pick Craig Murray ('98). Grabovski was a teammate of A.Kostitsyn with Team Belarus. Leblanc was a teammate to Danny Kristo in the USHL. Aubin was a teammate of Halak's. Pat Johnson was a teammate of McDonagh's. Cichy was a teammate of Kristo's at the USNDTP and now at ND

So the Habs have the Dartmouth connection- Wyman, Stejskal, Walsh
Mighian- Craig Murray, Komisarek, Pacioretty, Pateryn, Palushaj, Bennett
Petes- Flood, Stewart, Missiaen, Matt Carkner
Rocket-Lambert, Lappy, Urquhart, Bonneau
Cornell- O'Byrne, Gleed
Kootenay- Milroy, Maxwell, Russell
Team Belarus- Kostitsyn, Grabovski, Kostitsyn
Bathurst- Ferland, Carle
Drakkar- Lacasse, Dulac-Lemelin
Neftekhimik-Grabovski, Valentenko
Rimouski- Dany Stewart, Fortier
Dynamo- Markov, Avtsin
Lewiston- Halak, Aubin
Wisconsin- McDonagh, Pat Johnson
North Dakota/USNDTP U-18- Danny Kristo, Mike Cichy
Portland Winterhawks- Hossa, Balej, Cepek
Volts- Dumont, Masse, Lefebvre, Latendresse

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03-04-2010, 11:23 AM
  #277
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Good point. The Habs sure do like to draft/acquire players that know one another.

On top of the players you listed, we drafted Jon Gleed who was a teammate of Ryan O'Byrne's. Then there's the whole Montreal Rocket thing, with Lappy/Urquhart/Bonneau who we drafted the year after drafting their teammate Lambert. Balej was a teammate of Hossa's at Portland. Dulac-Lemelin was a teammate of Loic Lacasse. Greg Stewart was a teammate of Mark Floods. Mike Komisarek was a teammate of draft pick Craig Murray ('98). Grabovski was a teammate of A.Kostitsyn with Team Belarus. Leblanc was a teammate to Danny Kristo in the USHL. Aubin was a teammate of Halak's. Pat Johnson was a teammate of McDonagh's. Cichy was a teammate of Kristo's at the USNDTP and now at ND

So the Habs have the Dartmouth connection- Wyman, Stejskal, Walsh
Mighian- Craig Murray, Komisarek, Pacioretty, Pateryn, Palushaj, Bennett
Petes- Flood, Stewart, Missiaen, Matt Carkner
Rocket-Lambert, Lappy, Urquhart, Bonneau
Cornell- O'Byrne, Gleed
Kootenay- Milroy, Maxwell, Russell
Team Belarus- Kostitsyn, Grabovski, Kostitsyn
Bathurst- Ferland, Carle
Drakkar- Lacasse, Dulac-Lemelin
Neftekhimik-Grabovski, Valentenko
Rimouski- Dany Stewart, Fortier
Dynamo- Markov, Avtsin
Lewiston- Halak, Aubin
Wisconsin- McDonagh, Pat Johnson
North Dakota/USNDTP U-18- Danny Kristo, Mike Cichy
Portland Winterhawks- Hossa, Balej, Cepek
Volts- Dumont, Masse, Lefebvre, Latendresse
The real question is:

Do they really want to have a family atmosphere?
or
Do they only scout the players playing with former picks?

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03-04-2010, 11:25 AM
  #278
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Good point. The Habs sure do like to draft/acquire players that know one another.

On top of the players you listed, we drafted Jon Gleed who was a teammate of Ryan O'Byrne's. Then there's the whole Montreal Rocket thing, with Lappy/Urquhart/Bonneau who we drafted the year after drafting their teammate Lambert. Balej was a teammate of Hossa's at Portland. Dulac-Lemelin was a teammate of Loic Lacasse. Greg Stewart was a teammate of Mark Floods. Mike Komisarek was a teammate of draft pick Craig Murray ('98). Grabovski was a teammate of A.Kostitsyn with Team Belarus. Leblanc was a teammate to Danny Kristo in the USHL. Aubin was a teammate of Halak's. Pat Johnson was a teammate of McDonagh's. Cichy was a teammate of Kristo's at the USNDTP and now at ND

So the Habs have the Dartmouth connection- Wyman, Stejskal, Walsh
Mighian- Craig Murray, Komisarek, Pacioretty, Pateryn, Palushaj, Bennett
Petes- Flood, Stewart, Missiaen, Matt Carkner
Rocket-Lambert, Lappy, Urquhart, Bonneau
Cornell- O'Byrne, Gleed
Kootenay- Milroy, Maxwell, Russell
Team Belarus- Kostitsyn, Grabovski, Kostitsyn
Bathurst- Ferland, Carle
Drakkar- Lacasse, Dulac-Lemelin
Neftekhimik-Grabovski, Valentenko
Rimouski- Dany Stewart, Fortier
Dynamo- Markov, Avtsin
Lewiston- Halak, Aubin
Wisconsin- McDonagh, Pat Johnson
North Dakota/USNDTP U-18- Danny Kristo, Mike Cichy
Portland Winterhawks- Hossa, Balej, Cepek
Volts- Dumont, Masse, Lefebvre, Latendresse
You obviously know this stuff better then me and you make sense on most ... but to sse a "friend" or "family" link between Markov and Avtsin just because they both played with Dynamo is a little far fetched. Where was Avtsin playing when Markov left Dynamo ?

I read somewhere that O'Byrne and Bitz were roommates at some point. Maybe we could have got him too ?

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03-04-2010, 11:26 AM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Le depisteur View Post
I'm sorry for you, but Mike Richards had better stats than Gamache at his draft age. You have to analyse and understand stats well to put a judgment, and it's clear you missed it... Gamache is also 5'10" and Richards 6', come on, give me a better exemple...

I never said stats are telling the whole story. But there are telling a big part of the story. You have to see him play also, no doubt on that. But if you want to play in NHL, you have to put numbers.
I just quickly threw those 2 together to use as an example, but I would think anyone that understands the game could see what I was trying to say.

Just because a player puts up huge numbers in Junior, College, Minor Pro etc.. doesn't mean they're going to do the same thing in the NHL. And you can look at it the other way as well. Just because a player doesn't put up great numbers in those lower league's, it doesn't mean they absolutely can't do it at an NHL level.

It all depends on the quality of linemates, ice time etc..

I'm not necessarily accusing you of this...but people need to stop looking at someone's stats, and automatically form an opinion on him of being a good player/prospect or bad player/prospect.

Anyone who has actually seen Aaron Palushaj play knows that he has some potential. Forget about his stats this season in Peoria. He plays a gritty game (maybe not so much this season), can pass the puck pretty well and find teammates easily, doesn't shy away when the game gets physical, has some wheels (not the fastest player, but can get around no problem) and I do think he has some untapped offensive potential. Ideally, I think he'll be a 3rd line player..but he can surprise me and maybe play in the top 6 some day. We'll have to see how he progresses.

But honestly, I wish people would try to stop forming an opinion of a player without actually watching him play. I can't say this enough..stats certainly don't tell the whole story.

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03-04-2010, 11:32 AM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Newhabfan View Post
You obviously know this stuff better then me and you make sense on most ... but to sse a "friend" or "family" link between Markov and Avtsin just because they both played with Dynamo is a little far fetched. Where was Avtsin playing when Markov left Dynamo ?

I read somewhere that O'Byrne and Bitz were roommates at some point. Maybe we could have got him too ?
No the 2nd part was just to show the players we have drafted out of the same organization. I just added since I already had most of the info listed above it. Thought it might be interesting to see that we are drafting guys out of the same organization.

I don't know if Bitz was O'B's roomate but they were teammates for sure along with Gleed. I would have taken Bitz on this team for sure.

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The real question is:

Do they really want to have a family atmosphere?
or
Do they only scout the players playing with former picks?
I would think they like having players that are familiar with another, when they can. As for scouting, I would think that they take more notice of a teammate while they are checking in on one of their draft picks, and happen to notice said player more. Clearly there seems to be some kind of trend here, but the question is, is it directly related or indirectly, since I got to assume that the Habs aren't just being cheap and only scouting a few teams.

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03-04-2010, 11:36 AM
  #281
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Palushaj seems to be a shootout expert too. Five S/O goals this season in the AHL.

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03-04-2010, 11:36 AM
  #282
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I just quickly threw those 2 together to use as an example, but I would think anyone that understands the game could see what I was trying to say.

Just because a player puts up huge numbers in Junior, College, Minor Pro etc.. doesn't mean they're going to do the same thing in the NHL. And you can look at it the other way as well. Just because a player doesn't put up great numbers in those lower league's, it doesn't mean they absolutely can't do it at an NHL level.

It all depends on the quality of linemates, ice time etc..

I'm not necessarily accusing you of this...but people need to stop looking at someone's stats, and automatically form an opinion on him of being a good player/prospect or bad player/prospect.

Anyone who has actually seen Aaron Palushaj play knows that he has some potential. Forget about his stats this season in Peoria. He plays a gritty game (maybe not so much this season), can pass the puck pretty well and find teammates easily, doesn't shy away when the game gets physical, has some wheels (not the fastest player, but can get around no problem) and I do think he has some untapped offensive potential. Ideally, I think he'll be a 3rd line player..but he can surprise me and maybe play in the top 6 some day. We'll have to see how he progresses.

But honestly, I wish people would try to stop forming an opinion of a player without actually watching him play. I can't say this enough..stats certainly don't tell the whole story.
I undertand really well your point and I agree with this. But I also really think numbers tell a lot more you think if you take time to analyse them wisely...

For the Palushaj's case, his numbers tell he should play in NHL one day and a third liner role is the best case scenario. Of course, you have to see him play to have a better look of him. But if you haven't this chance, you have only numbers and it's not true you can use them to still have a good judgment on a player...

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03-04-2010, 11:38 AM
  #283
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I don't know if Bitz was O'B's roomate but they were teammates for sure along with Gleed. I would have taken Bitz on this team for sure.
http://nhl.fanhouse.com/2010/01/28/b...h-ryan-obyrne/

LAst Habs-Bruins game I was almost expecting a fight between them

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03-04-2010, 11:40 AM
  #284
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Palushaj seems to be a shootout expert too. Five S/O goals this season in the AHL.
At Michigan he was a slick stickhandler, so I guess he's got some good deke's going for him.

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http://nhl.fanhouse.com/2010/01/28/b...h-ryan-obyrne/

LAst Habs-Bruins game I was almost expecting a fight between them
cool. I like his quote on Markov, kind of funny. I interviewd Ryan when he was a freshman at Cornell, I should have asked him who his roomate was.

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03-04-2010, 11:54 AM
  #285
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When it comes to doing a talent analysis on a player, I'll always use McKeen's before any other. Here's what they had to say about Palushaj in this year's yearbook:

"...industrious playmaker has excellent individual skills and competitiveness...gifted and creative passer - has a knack for finding passing lanes that appear to be closed...not overly big or powerful, but plays a brave, chippy game - gets under opponent's skin...strong two-way work ethic - tenacious in puck pursuit and not shy about doing the spadework...still needs to work on improving his first-step burst and overall quickness...should get faster though as his leg strength improves given his stride is smooth, wide and sound...shows a deceptive outside burst of speed and is sneaky and elusive 1-on-1, exploiting strong puck control abilities and slick edgework...makes abrupt diagonal shifts that freeze opponents... tries to do too much at times however and will benefit from learning to take simple plays...just requires bulking up and getting stronger."

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03-04-2010, 11:58 AM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
When it comes to doing a talent analysis on a player, I'll always use McKeen's before any other. Here's what they had to say about Palushaj in this year's yearbook:

"...industrious playmaker has excellent individual skills and competitiveness...gifted and creative passer - has a knack for finding passing lanes that appear to be closed...not overly big or powerful, but plays a brave, chippy game - gets under opponent's skin...strong two-way work ethic - tenacious in puck pursuit and not shy about doing the spadework...still needs to work on improving his first-step burst and overall quickness...should get faster though as his leg strength improves given his stride is smooth, wide and sound...shows a deceptive outside burst of speed and is sneaky and elusive 1-on-1, exploiting strong puck control abilities and slick edgework...makes abrupt diagonal shifts that freeze opponents... tries to do too much at times however and will benefit from learning to take simple plays...just requires bulking up and getting stronger."
I always McKeen's too, very interresting for their comments especially...

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03-04-2010, 12:01 PM
  #287
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It's very disappointing that McKeen's won't be releasing a draft guide this year. Last year's was the best on the market.

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03-04-2010, 01:32 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
When it comes to doing a talent analysis on a player, I'll always use McKeen's before any other. Here's what they had to say about Palushaj in this year's yearbook:

"...industrious playmaker has excellent individual skills and competitiveness...gifted and creative passer - has a knack for finding passing lanes that appear to be closed...not overly big or powerful, but plays a brave, chippy game - gets under opponent's skin...strong two-way work ethic - tenacious in puck pursuit and not shy about doing the spadework...still needs to work on improving his first-step burst and overall quickness...should get faster though as his leg strength improves given his stride is smooth, wide and sound...shows a deceptive outside burst of speed and is sneaky and elusive 1-on-1, exploiting strong puck control abilities and slick edgework...makes abrupt diagonal shifts that freeze opponents... tries to do too much at times however and will benefit from learning to take simple plays...just requires bulking up and getting stronger."
I still think this is a steal for us, but Andy Strickland, the St. Louis Blues beat writer who seems to be really on top of his game, had some worrisome thoughts concerning Palushaj: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Andy-...lushaj/5/26713

Hard to know who to believe because i read another article someone posted here, written sometime in January this year, saying that he started slow in Peoria after his bad injury, but then steadily improved.

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03-04-2010, 02:11 PM
  #289
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I still think this is a steal for us, but Andy Strickland, the St. Louis Blues beat writer who seems to be really on top of his game, had some worrisome thoughts concerning Palushaj: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Andy-...lushaj/5/26713

Hard to know who to believe because i read another article someone posted here, written sometime in January this year, saying that he started slow in Peoria after his bad injury, but then steadily improved.
I wouldn't look too much into on either side of things. Palushaj had two injuries this year, plus had to get used to going from playing 2 games a week mostly on weekends, to playing 3-4 games a week or worse (4 in 5 days) So it would be hard to really say how the season has gone for him when you put it in context of the situation.

What we do know is that he was a standout player in the USHL and NCAA that has international experience. Clearly he's a skilled winger, now we will have to see what he turns into over the next few years.

It's a low risk move that could pay off nicely in 3 or so years. I was never a huge fan of D'Agostini but I like him more then most around here as I do think if he ever gets more consistent and becomes willing to pay the price to score goals, he could be a decent NHLer that puts the puck in the net.

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03-04-2010, 02:23 PM
  #290
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But that is flawed. To me, the only way you can judge a prospect is by actually watching him play. Stats don't tell the whole story. I'm not trying to single you out, but I wish many of these stat geeks (not saying you're one of them) on HF would realize this.

Out of these 2, who do you think people would have considered the better prospect (if they went solely on stats)? I'm just using these 2 as an example.

Simon Gamache - http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=43789

Mike Richards - http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=59738

If we used stats, guys like Gamache, Locke, Brendl etc.. would be sure-fire superstars in this league.
IMO, obviously, as one of those "stat geeks":

Prospect stats are extremely useful, not to get a perfect image of what kind of NHL'er the player will be, but to establish a ceiling. The thing to remember, is that there are many more opportunities for a career to go off course than there are for a player to suddenly develop new skills. Yes, it happens that Gamaches don't pan out. It's much more rare that a player who fails to dominate at a lower level goes on to become an NHL scorer.

In this specific case, I think that Palushaj failing to put up points in the AHL is a tell. Looking at Peoria's numbers, he is even well down the list of Rivermen in terms of shots taken, despite getting good minutes on their PP, so it's not a question of the puck just not finding twine. That said, if he can adapt and become a solid bottom six forward, this is still a good move for the Habs.

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03-04-2010, 02:32 PM
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In this specific case, I think that Palushaj failing to put up points in the AHL is a tell. Looking at Peoria's numbers, he is even well down the list of Rivermen in terms of shots taken, despite getting good minutes on their PP, so it's not a question of the puck just not finding twine. That said, if he can adapt and become a solid bottom six forward, this is still a good move for the Habs.
Also, the fact of the first socrer in Peoria (Lars Eller, 13th overall in 2007) only has 36 pts in 52 games give some positive on Palushaj, 44th in 2007, numbers (22 pts in 44 games).

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03-04-2010, 02:33 PM
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It's very disappointing that McKeen's won't be releasing a draft guide this year. Last year's was the best on the market.
what ?? too bad

they even loss Max Giese who now scout for redline


Here Max Scouting report on Palushaj in his draft year (2007)

Quote:
47. RW Aaron Palushaj, 6-0 185, 9-7-1989, Des Moines USHL 56 gp – 22 g – 45 a – 67 points.
++ Ability to finish or create near the net in heavy traffic
+ Long reach with soft hands and can stick handle through traffic.
- Skating, inconsistent effort, poor defensive play.

Palushaj is a team player who communicates positively with coaches and teammates that will do the dirty work for his linemates and displays good body language on the bench. His skating needs improvement as his first few strides lack power and appear sluggish and his turns can be sloppy but with his superb anticipation and economical approach he gets where he needs to and can slip around the opposition. Is as dangerous as they come from within 15-feet of the net. He has a long reach, is a patient puckhandler with soft, quick hands that can really dangle and can make something out of nothing in heavy traffic using the toe drag to slip off the opposition. Scores many goals with his willingness to get his nose dirty. Has a knack for pouncing on loose rebounds using his quick release to finish and displays hunger, bears down and finishes his chances. He can also make a deft pass through heavy traffic and can draw the opposition and execute a creative pass with defenders draped all over him. Aaron shields the puck well and can maintain possession allowing his teammates to get open. Ever improving defensively, it just has not come full circle yet as he needs to backcheck harder and leaves the defensive zone too early but picks up his man well and will come down low to help. Palushaj pursues the puck adequately, clogs passing lanes, and maintains proper positioning. He handles traffic well and is very effective battling along the board. He fits the mold of a real offensive threat if he fixes his skating concerns. Palushaj had a phenomenal playoff in which he displayed that he can elevate his game in the critical moments and that there is more upside to him. Aaron will play for Michigan next fall.


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03-04-2010, 03:43 PM
  #293
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Not much to work with, but I tried.

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03-04-2010, 03:48 PM
  #294
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Not much to work with, but I tried.

Thanks Whatsatheo. Kid shows more upside than I ever saw in D'Agostini, just in those clips alone. Hope Boucher can bring out the best in him.

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03-04-2010, 03:56 PM
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Thanks Whatsatheo. Kid shows more upside than I ever saw in D'Agostini, just in those clips alone. Hope Boucher can bring out the best in him.
lol, really? Just like that? When D'Agostini was playing well last year he was celebrated like a god around here. Maybe we should wait until our newest 'steal' plays a few games in Montreal before bashing a player on the way out.

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03-04-2010, 03:59 PM
  #296
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lol, really? Just like that? When D'Agostini was playing well last year he was celebrated like a god around here. Maybe we should wait until our newest 'steal' plays a few games in Montreal before bashing a player on the way out.
Yeah, Dags scored his fair share of beauties in the AHL too.

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03-04-2010, 04:26 PM
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Yeah, Dags scored his fair share of beauties in the AHL too.
Did you made one of Pouliot since he is a habs ?

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03-04-2010, 04:27 PM
  #298
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He sure falls over a lot when he scores lol

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03-04-2010, 04:31 PM
  #299
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lol, really? Just like that? When D'Agostini was playing well last year he was celebrated like a god around here. Maybe we should wait until our newest 'steal' plays a few games in Montreal before bashing a player on the way out.
Celebrated like a God? I don't remember D'ags being celebrated like Price or Subban. I personally never liked him at all even when he was scoring at a decent rate.

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03-04-2010, 04:44 PM
  #300
Watsatheo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katatoniak View Post
Did you made one of Pouliot since he is a habs ?
Yeah, I think I made a comp for every player acquired in the past couple of seasons.

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