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WSH/MIN Belanger for a 2nd Rounder...

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Old
03-03-2010, 01:18 PM
  #1
BigT2002
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WSH/MIN Belanger for a 2nd Rounder...

Guess we are going to be calling it a year???

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03-03-2010, 01:44 PM
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So does Shep get reinstated as the 4th line center?

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03-03-2010, 02:00 PM
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At least we did something to help our prospect pool for the future.

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03-03-2010, 03:09 PM
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Belanger was not going to make or break this team.

Kobasew willl be back soon.

We can see what Sheppard can really do. Its an all around good move for us, i feel.

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03-03-2010, 03:51 PM
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Good deal but man, it felt we were fighting a rebuild or a retooling of this team and the approach was very...confusing.

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03-03-2010, 06:15 PM
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Agreed about calling it quits this season. Wish we would've traded Nolan. That 2nd rounder will probably not turn into anything to be excited about. Can't wait to see the 3rd line center we sign in the off-season to replace him if the PMB project doesn't work.

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03-03-2010, 08:52 PM
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Good deal but man, it felt we were fighting a rebuild or a retooling of this team and the approach was very...confusing.
Because they are going for better young NHL players now instead of crapping it out for five years and hoping those picks pan out?

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03-04-2010, 10:46 AM
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Because they are going for better young NHL players now instead of crapping it out for five years and hoping those picks pan out?
Because they could have traded Nolan and Hnidy as well, along with Zids if they didn't throw him a ton of money. That's three other players.

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03-04-2010, 10:58 AM
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Because they are going for better young NHL players now instead of crapping it out for five years and hoping those picks pan out?
Then why keep Nolan, Brunette, hell even Zanon then??

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03-04-2010, 11:15 AM
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Then why keep Nolan, Brunette, hell even Zanon then??
we were not going to re sign Belanger. Why let him go for nothing? He is not a key or corner stone to the franchise. With Kobasew back, it made sense from a numbers stand point too.

We still have a chance to make the play offs. Nolan is the vet, Zanon is steady and Brunnno along with Mitts and Koivu are our top line. We do not want to totally throw i nthe towel.

5 second rounders is nothing special. If we moved all the others. One extra is nice. With the way the new GM thinks. I bet he allready has some one in mind that is under radar and want to make sure they get them.

Also a 2nd rounder is an assest for the future. Belanger is not.

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03-04-2010, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MN_Gopher View Post
we were not going to re sign Belanger. Why let him go for nothing? He is not a key or corner stone to the franchise. With Kobasew back, it made sense from a numbers stand point too.
He was the leading faceoff man and someone you could depend on when it came time for PK's or offensive wins. He could have been resigned, but now we'll have to play "well we need another centerman" game again this offseason and we'll see how far that gets us.

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We still have a chance to make the play offs. Nolan is the vet, Zanon is steady and Brunnno along with Mitts and Koivu are our top line. We do not want to totally throw i nthe towel.
Nolan was allowed to stay because he told Fletcher and Richards that he wanted to. Richards respected it as much as Childress did with Favre. If you read the StarTrib article by Russo, he has the quote directly from Richards in regards to this. And Bruno/Koivu/Mittens may be the top line, but they are not the main reason we are winning games as of late. Looking at point production alone (and yes I know there is more to it than that), Havlat/Brodziak/Latendresse are the scoring line. And while playoffs are still in breathing distance, anyone who believes (unless there is an epic meltdown of some team ahead of us x's 3) we are going to get at least 75% of the points out of these remaining 20 games is being silly. If we were to sweep through March, then maybe.

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5 second rounders is nothing special. If we moved all the others. One extra is nice. With the way the new GM thinks. I bet he allready has some one in mind that is under radar and want to make sure they get them.
With Washington's pick though? At this rate, it would be around the 58th pick overall in the draft. While there are obviously gems in every single nhl draft, with how our scouts are....I'm not too sold on this. Especially when he lost pretty much all faith in his 1st overall pick from 2009 to trade him before he even completed his frosh year of college. Little excessive?

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Also a 2nd rounder is an assest for the future. Belanger is not.
Do I even have to bring up names from previous draft years that have done absolutely nothing for this organization in which we drafted?

Here are our previous 2nd round picks:

Quote:
2000 Entry 33 2 Nick Schultz
2001 Entry 36 2 Kyle Wanvig
2002 Entry 38 2 Josh Harding
2004 Entry 42 2 Roman Voloshenko
2003 Entry 56 2 Patrick O'Sullivan
2005 Entry 57 2 Matt Kassian
2006 Entry 40 2 Ondrej Fiala
So of those, only 2 have played more than 100 games, and one of those is a prospect we traded for Demitra. If you wanna go back to the 3rd and 4th rounds, there are literally only two players who have even seen NHL time, and one is Cal Clutterbuck.

Forgive me for not being too optimistic

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03-04-2010, 02:18 PM
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Because they could have traded Nolan and Hnidy as well, along with Zids if they didn't throw him a ton of money. That's three other players.
Nolan didn't want to go and they abided by his wishes, no one would give more than a 5th/6th for Hnidy and they signed Zidlicky because he's going a part of the future. Really the only other player I expected to be traded was Nolan and if he doesn't want to go that says a lot about the team here.

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Then why keep Nolan, Brunette, hell even Zanon then??
What young team doesn't have a veteran presence? You build a strong youth core and surround them with character veterans.

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03-04-2010, 03:44 PM
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Nolan didn't want to go and they abided by his wishes, no one would give more than a 5th/6th for Hnidy and they signed Zidlicky because he's going a part of the future. Really the only other player I expected to be traded was Nolan and if he doesn't want to go that says a lot about the team here.


What young team doesn't have a veteran presence? You build a strong youth core and surround them with character veterans.

33 year old is part of the future? And Nolan didn't want to go? So who runs this organization? Nolan or Fletcher? So if we told Nolan, hey! We want you back for half of what you're making, is he going to say yes?

And 5th,6th for Hnidy is more than nothing...or did I get my math wrong?

We don't have a young team. Don't kid yourself on that either. And how do you build if you have no tools to build with?

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03-04-2010, 04:30 PM
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33 year old is part of the future? And Nolan didn't want to go? So who runs this organization? Nolan or Fletcher? So if we told Nolan, hey! We want you back for half of what you're making, is he going to say yes?

And 5th,6th for Hnidy is more than nothing...or did I get my math wrong?

We don't have a young team. Don't kid yourself on that either. And how do you build if you have no tools to build with?
I think we have conflicting ideas on how to build a team. Your take is essentially the Pittsburgh, Washington, Chicago method where Minnesota completely blows up everything for picks. In addition, they draft their way back to prominence through all the young, high-end talent which we would be getting through the next four years of subpar play. At the same time, your fans lose interest, the streak ends (I'm actually surprised it hasn't already) and the team becomes the North Stars v. 2.0. While this can work (and even when it does, it requires having veterans to mentor the young guys like a John Leclair in Pittsburgh), the moment has passed as the opportunity to start totally anew was last year's trade deadline. Unfortunately, DR held onto the best chip (Gaborik) and the Wild are in a position of retooling.

My take on the other hand is to have a few pieces to build around, trade the outliers, draft well and add through free agency. All aspects are important. That's essentially what Fletcher is doing and what I think works best at this point of the season. This is a deep draft, and even if the Wild finish where they are now they should end up with a decent player or two to add to their cupboard. They've done a great job of adding components which work with the Richards system and although there are a few players which are still left over, it's impossible to completely turn over everything in one season.

I do agree with trading Nolan if the right trade came across; however you have to admire loyalty and hope that pays off down the line.As far as the 5th/6th for Hnidy - it's nothing given Minnesota's draft history. The only players past the third round who have suited up for more than fifty games for the Wild are enforcers (with the exception of the great Slovak Lubomir Sekeras). Also in a salary cap world, how much of a demand is there at the deadline for Sheriff Shane? There has to be a buyer.

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03-04-2010, 08:09 PM
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He was the leading faceoff man and someone you could depend on when it came time for PK's or offensive wins. He could have been resigned, but now we'll have to play "well we need another centerman" game again this offseason and we'll see how far that gets us.



Nolan was allowed to stay because he told Fletcher and Richards that he wanted to. Richards respected it as much as Childress did with Favre. If you read the StarTrib article by Russo, he has the quote directly from Richards in regards to this. And Bruno/Koivu/Mittens may be the top line, but they are not the main reason we are winning games as of late. Looking at point production alone (and yes I know there is more to it than that), Havlat/Brodziak/Latendresse are the scoring line. And while playoffs are still in breathing distance, anyone who believes (unless there is an epic meltdown of some team ahead of us x's 3) we are going to get at least 75% of the points out of these remaining 20 games is being silly. If we were to sweep through March, then maybe.



With Washington's pick though? At this rate, it would be around the 58th pick overall in the draft. While there are obviously gems in every single nhl draft, with how our scouts are....I'm not too sold on this. Especially when he lost pretty much all faith in his 1st overall pick from 2009 to trade him before he even completed his frosh year of college. Little excessive?



Do I even have to bring up names from previous draft years that have done absolutely nothing for this organization in which we drafted?

Here are our previous 2nd round picks:



So of those, only 2 have played more than 100 games, and one of those is a prospect we traded for Demitra. If you wanna go back to the 3rd and 4th rounds, there are literally only two players who have even seen NHL time, and one is Cal Clutterbuck.

Forgive me for not being too optimistic
Let's not be obtuse and forget that Doug Risebrough was fired for a number of reasons, one of the biggest being that he and his department were absolutely awful at drafting and developing young prospects as the years went along.

Obviously, we can't sit here and say Fletcher has Midas' touch when it comes to drafting, but I am confident that he's better than Risebrough. Nowhere to go but up with that clown gone.

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03-04-2010, 08:36 PM
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The Wild appeared to be fine without Belanger last night. I have a feeling the impact of his departure will be minimal.

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03-04-2010, 09:46 PM
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Let's not be obtuse and forget that Doug Risebrough was fired for a number of reasons, one of the biggest being that he and his department were absolutely awful at drafting and developing young prospects as the years went along.

Obviously, we can't sit here and say Fletcher has Midas' touch when it comes to drafting, but I am confident that he's better than Risebrough. Nowhere to go but up with that clown gone.
The scouts weren't fired

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03-05-2010, 10:02 PM
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The scouts weren't fired
Maybe the scouts can scout, but the guys who made the final decisions on draft days (Manager of Expectations & Tommy Boy) couldn't cut it.

I wouldn't be surprised if TT is canned immediately following the draft. Fletcher wasn't very happy with the Leddy/UM comments. Hopefully that will turn out to be the final straw.

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03-06-2010, 12:51 AM
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I thought I might pop in here to give my take on what we got for Belanger. I'm new around here, but I'm a huge Wild fan.

I think that a 2nd rounder for Belanger ended up being pretty good. I was happy to see him go to Washington because he seemed like a nice guy. The good part about this is the fact that we now have another bargaining chip in maybe trying to obtain a 2nd line centerman or a scoring winger.

Hopefully CF will draft well since I've heard that this is supposed to be a "deep" draft, but that 2nd rounder from Washington is pretty late. Well, we will see what happens come June.

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03-07-2010, 12:28 PM
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Maybe the scouts can scout, but the guys who made the final decisions on draft days (Manager of Expectations & Tommy Boy) couldn't cut it.

I wouldn't be surprised if TT is canned immediately following the draft. Fletcher wasn't very happy with the Leddy/UM comments. Hopefully that will turn out to be the final straw.
If that was the case, then the second part of your comment pretty much just put the stamp on the envelope that our organization has an extremely difficult time with drafting outside of the 1st round. If we are not going to do the Washington/Chicago/Pittsburgh route of getting high Top 10 picks, then we need to be more like Detroit/New York in drafting outside of the 1st round.

TT def. needs to be fired though, and like I've said...I'm pretty sure you won't see us getting them at 18 before they have played at another level outside of prep hockey. Fletcher is going to be gun shy about it and rightfully so.

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Hopefully CF will draft well since I've heard that this is supposed to be a "deep" draft, but that 2nd rounder from Washington is pretty late. Well, we will see what happens come June.
Depending on what Fletcher believes we need, he will get it. I have faith in the guy. I just don't want their to be hopes and dreams that Bouchard is coming back though either.

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03-07-2010, 06:40 PM
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Depending on what Fletcher believes we need, he will get it. I have faith in the guy. I just don't want their to be hopes and dreams that Bouchard is coming back though either.
Bouchard is an odd case. I hope he gets better even though his cap hit is very high, but he does have a lot of talent.

I do believe in Fletcher too. He has brought in his own players and seemed to get pretty good return for his trades. The Kobasew trade seems like it could be okay in a couple of years, but trading the 2nd away kind of sucks too. I assume he will try to re-fill that 2nd rounder by the next deadline or next year sometime. I kind of wish he would have traded Nolan at the deadline too, but I'm not a GM so it was up to him.

I'm just glad to see a GM in control that's willing to pull the trigger on the trade.

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03-08-2010, 08:55 AM
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I'm not sure what I'm more surprised at. Us not moving Nolan or Nolan saying he wants to stay here. Not too often a veteran opts to stay on a team that won't win the SC in his career lifespan. But I'm not too disappointed in that. Two years ago Wild fans were complaining that A) It was perceived no players of note wanted to play here. And B) we never got anything in return for our UFA's. Fletch seemed to have changed both those attitudes. We got a 23yo Dman for our UFA and Leddy. Yeah last year's first rounder, but I look at Barker as a player that can help us immediately. You got to give to get and I never once thought this was a team that needed to total rebuild to be competitive. And in regards to point B, we have players that really want to be here. Havlat, Laten, and Zanon, just to name the new guys. But like ANY team out there, to snag the elite FA's at a somewhat reasonable rate we have to win.

While the low 2nd was not ideally what I as hoping to get for Bel, it is still better than nothing for a player that Fletcher has said he had no intention of re-signing.

I just hope Fletcher can parlay Harding and anything else he can part with(Sheppard plz) into a real bonafide #2 center come draft day.

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03-08-2010, 11:26 AM
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To get a #2 center, I wonder who would be available for us to try to trade for. I assume that there will be a couple of teams looking for a goaltender this offseason, but I'm still not sure how much Harding will be able to fetch since he hasn't proved he can be a starter for sure in which I think teams like Chicago, Philly, or some other team would be looking for, but with these teams needing to be careful with the amount of cap space they have, I know that an asset like Harding could be very useful to try to pry away a Sharp-type player from the Hawks, but not sure what they would for him. I also thought I had read something somewhere that Sharp prefers to play the wing, but I'm not sure.

Sheppard has been a disappointment, but I hope he can just keep working for the rest of this season, this last game I noticed him a few times which is more than I can say that I've seen of him all season. Hopefully he can start to pop in a few goals and just play better overall and up his trade value or something? It's a shame we can't send him down to the AHL without waivers since he would probably learn a lot playing down there, but I am pretty sure he would be snatched up.

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03-08-2010, 01:14 PM
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To get a #2 center, I wonder who would be available for us to try to trade for. I assume that there will be a couple of teams looking for a goaltender this offseason, but I'm still not sure how much Harding will be able to fetch since he hasn't proved he can be a starter for sure in which I think teams like Chicago, Philly, or some other team would be looking for, but with these teams needing to be careful with the amount of cap space they have, I know that an asset like Harding could be very useful to try to pry away a Sharp-type player from the Hawks, but not sure what they would for him. I also thought I had read something somewhere that Sharp prefers to play the wing, but I'm not sure.

Sheppard has been a disappointment, but I hope he can just keep working for the rest of this season, this last game I noticed him a few times which is more than I can say that I've seen of him all season. Hopefully he can start to pop in a few goals and just play better overall and up his trade value or something? It's a shame we can't send him down to the AHL without waivers since he would probably learn a lot playing down there, but I am pretty sure he would be snatched up.
Really been impressed with Sheppard lately. He's still way too tentative with the puck, but he's improved his defensive game two-fold since he last got regular playing time.

I'll never forgive JL and Risebrough for throwing Shep into the fire so early and playing him with such awful linemates. Any idiot could have seen he needed more time before he got to the show.

That said, I'm not ready to give up on him offensively. I think, with some patience, he could potentially center the 2nd line for us. He's got great vision and he's pretty good at keeping his head up. His hands just went to hell. He was never this poor at receiving passes and stickhandling in juniors or even as he first came up. His confidence was just so gone, I think it's slowly coming back, however.

Regardless, I still think we should try to work a trade involving Harding and David Bolland from Chicago. I absolutely love that guy and the way he plays. I think he'd be tremendous in between Latendresse and Havlat. We'd probably have to give up Harding and some sort of pick or prospect (Noreau?), but I think it's worth it. $3.375M cap hit thru 13/14 with Bolland.. great contract.

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03-08-2010, 01:18 PM
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Also, we need to think about a legitimate first line winger for Koivu (possibly 2 wingers?). I am all for keeping Havlat and Latendresse on the 2nd line, I think both are pretty bad defensively and don't deserve 20 min of ice a game. I realize it's unlikely, but if there was any way we could pry Ales Hemsky from Edmonton, I'd die of happiness. I wonder what it would take?

I'm fine with Bruno playing with Koivu, but the guys getting up there in age. I can't stand watching Miettinen blow chance after chance on his stick. He's way too streaky for my taste.

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