HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > World Junior Championship
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
World Junior Championship Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Russia 2014 solution: citizenship plus $$$ for NA players to play for Russian NT...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-03-2010, 03:11 PM
  #76
Turboflex*
 
Turboflex*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,152
vCash: 500
For propaganda purposes they could appoint a Russian figurehead "head coach" who will deal with media and act very Russian but in reality it would be his North American assistant coach will be running the team.

Turboflex* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2010, 03:27 PM
  #77
Fish on The Sand
Untouchable
 
Fish on The Sand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nanaimo
Country: Canada
Posts: 50,616
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
I was alluding to having a NA coach on the Russian team, not poaching players and giving them citizenship.

Coaching was a big factor for both Russia and Sweden, and I don't see why hiring at least one NA coach, even as an assistant, is an issue.

KHL teams have done it, and now national teams have done it. Russia hasn't done much in the Olympics since they started allowing NHL players to play in them, they need to change things up a bit if they want better resutls.
hasn't done much? This was the first time they didn't play for a medal. The only country that made the semis all three olympic years.

Fish on The Sand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2010, 03:32 PM
  #78
thomasincanada
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,668
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
Do you have reading difficulties? I am talking about the last 38 games where Russia lost only one game in regular time - this is very like the Soviet teams of the early 80-es. These 38 games fall on the last 3-4 years. If Russia showed these type of numbers in the last 20 years consistently - trust me, Russia would have had some Olympic gold.
I don't have reading difficulties, thank you, I guess I just find your comment silly considering this "Soviet like dominance" is only happening against inferior opposition in the World Championships. It's an irrelevent tournament.

You need to win something important before talking about Soviet-like dominance. That's what I was trying to politely say beforehand.

thomasincanada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2010, 03:38 PM
  #79
Siberian
Registered User
 
Siberian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Saint Pierre
Country: France
Posts: 3,544
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasincanada View Post
I don't have reading difficulties, thank you, I guess I just find your comment silly considering this "Soviet like dominance" is only happening against inferior opposition in the World Championships. It's an irrelevent tournament.

You need to win something important before tlaking about Soviet-like dominance. That's what I was trying to politely say beforehand.
Inferior to what, to the teams Soviets used to beat? Are you serious?

Siberian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2010, 03:47 PM
  #80
thomasincanada
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,668
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
Inferior to what, to the teams Soviets used to beat? Are you serious?
Yes, in 1981 the USSR beat Canada 8-1 - that Canadian team had Bossy, Bourque, Dionne, Gretzky, Lafleur and other Canadian legends on it.

In 1987 I saw a Soviet Team almost beat a Canadian Team with Gretzky, Lemieux & Messier & Bourque on it.

In 2010 I saw Corey Perry score almost as many goals as the whole Russian team did.

That is a world of difference. They may not have beaten great teams in the Olympics back then but they sure as hell were the best team in the world for a good portion of the 70s and 80s. You just cannot say that about Russia right now.

thomasincanada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2010, 03:53 PM
  #81
Siberian
Registered User
 
Siberian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Saint Pierre
Country: France
Posts: 3,544
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasincanada View Post
Yes, in 1981 the USSR beat Canada 8-1 - that Canadian team had Bossy, Bourque, Dionne, Gretzky, Lafleur and other Canadian legends on it.

In 1987 I saw a Soviet Team almost beat a Canadian Team with Gretzky, Lemieux & Messier & Bourque on it.

In 2010 I saw Corey Perry score almost as many goals as the whole Russian team did.

That is a world of difference. They may not have beaten great teams in the Olympics back then but they sure as hell were the best team in the world for a good portion of the 70s and 80s.
I don't think you are on the same subject with me. We're not talking about certain games from Canadian-Russian rivalry. I don't think you can say any team ever dominated the other. I was talking about Soviet domination in the World hockey at the IIHF tournaments. Russia has been dominating IIHF tournaments in the last three-four years - only one regular time loss in the last 38 games. Are you with me here?

Siberian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2010, 03:57 PM
  #82
Kenadyan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Asheboro, NC
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,136
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladsky View Post
Enough good counterarguments already to close this thread.

But...

As a Russian, I can easily put myself in the shoes of a Russian hockey boss. Just imagine:

- It is 2012, and I have my @$$ on the line to win Sochi gold (or, at least, to medal)
- Russia has just been badly beaten in 2011 WCOH semis by USA
- D is the root cause of the problem
- Zubov has just retired, Gonchar is in decline, and the rest of Russian D corps outside of Markov-Volch duo has been terrible lately, and are unlikely to improve
- I managed to hire ... (insert the name your favourite NHL coach) to prepare the Russian team for the Olympic hockey event, the team's defensive play has improved a notch, but this still does not solve the problem
- I have all the money in the world to spend on getting the team ready
- My idea to lure a couple of decent NHL D-men is supported at the highest level, and I don't give **** regarding what an average Russian hockey fan thinks about it.

In this situation, I would go after anyone who is decent and eligible. You may not believe it, but such scenario IS possible.
Couple of flaws in this type of theory:

1. If they are decent NHL defenseman, they probably are already rather wealthy and living comfortably in the U.S. or Canada, so that takes the money out of the equation.

2. If they have already played for the U.S. or Canada on some level (WJC or WC) they will probably want to play for the U.S. or Canada in the Olympics if they are good enough to get the invite to play for their respective countries.

3. Why would they want Russian citizenship if they are already have citizenship in the U.S. or Canada?? No offense, I'm sure Russia is a nice place to visit, but I've lived in both the U.S. and Canada and don't think I'd really like to live anyplace else, regardless of how much money is being offered (see point #1).

Now if you can find a couple of "decent" defensemen on the street somewhere wandering around without any citizenship papers, they might be willing to take you up on your offer.

Kenadyan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2010, 04:07 PM
  #83
thomasincanada
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,668
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
I don't think you are on the same subject with me. We're not talking about certain games from Canadian-Russian rivalry. I don't think you can say any team ever dominated the other. I was talking about Soviet domination in the World hockey at the IIHF tournaments. Russia has been dominating IIHF tournaments in the last three-four years - only one regular time loss in the last 38 games. Are you with me here?
Strictly talking IIHF, not including these past olympics, I will say that Russia has been playing really well.

thomasincanada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2010, 04:13 PM
  #84
Brodie
watcher on the walls
 
Brodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Michigan
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 12,184
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lauro View Post
No soccer power - Brazil, Germany, Italy or Argentina - would do this. So Russian hockey won´t.

(Yes, England had Eriksson, but I wouldn´t call them a soccer power. One WC at home - not to speak of the "Wembley goal" - and a fourth place plus two third places at the European Championships...)
I'm not sure I'd call Germany or Italy powers anymore, age is catching up with both but that's neither here nor there.

Scolari with Portugal is another example that springs to mind.

Brodie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2010, 04:29 PM
  #85
Siberian
Registered User
 
Siberian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Saint Pierre
Country: France
Posts: 3,544
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasincanada View Post
Strictly talking IIHF, not including these past olympics, I will say that Russia has been playing really well.
Thank you! Russia should build on the recent success and definitely take a lesson from how Canada approached the most important tournament in the last four years.

Siberian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2010, 04:46 PM
  #86
jekoh
Registered User
 
jekoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,036
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
On the subject of foreign coaches and national teams, the Swiss federation has reportedly hired Andy Murray today, to replace Ralph Krueger as Swiss national coach.
Sean Simpson replaces Krueger, Murray will be his assistant.

jekoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2010, 05:48 PM
  #87
Brodie
watcher on the walls
 
Brodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Michigan
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 12,184
vCash: 500
I think the guy who suggested one of the big countries go after Kopitar is on to something.

Brodie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2010, 06:10 PM
  #88
86Habs
Registered User
 
86Habs's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,328
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
Thank you! Russia should build on the recent success and definitely take a lesson from how Canada approached the most important tournament in the last four years.
Do you have any insight into what changed in Russia's approach between the 2008/2009 WC's, and the 2010 Olympics? The smaller ice surface in Vancouver may have played a role, but then again Russia was successful in Quebec City. With respect to the WC's, the timing of the NHL playoffs always dilutes the talent pool available to all countries (particularly Canada and the U.S., as all of our players are in the NHL), but this would also impact Russia as some of their elite players would have been in the NHL playoffs as well. Any thoughts?

86Habs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2010, 07:08 PM
  #89
Siberian
Registered User
 
Siberian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Saint Pierre
Country: France
Posts: 3,544
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 86Habs View Post
Do you have any insight into what changed in Russia's approach between the 2008/2009 WC's, and the 2010 Olympics? The smaller ice surface in Vancouver may have played a role, but then again Russia was successful in Quebec City. With respect to the WC's, the timing of the NHL playoffs always dilutes the talent pool available to all countries (particularly Canada and the U.S., as all of our players are in the NHL), but this would also impact Russia as some of their elite players would have been in the NHL playoffs as well. Any thoughts?
In my opinion the job that was done by Hockey Canada was unprecedented. The amount of scouting, coaching and management that Hockey Canada put together for these Olympics is nothing short of phenomenal. Russian hockey federation has a lot to learn from this. This is very similar to what US did for the Olympics basketball. They needed to be absolutely best on court and off court to beat Spain. This just shows how much effort you need in order to win the Olympics.

Russia really should learn this as a great hockey lesson. It is very similar to a team that knows how to win the regular season but doesn't know how to win in the playoffs. You need one or two beatdowns in order to learn. I think Russia will learn at the end but oh my, what a lesson it was.

Siberian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2010, 07:20 PM
  #90
Zine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 8,969
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 86Habs View Post
Do you have any insight into what changed in Russia's approach between the 2008/2009 WC's, and the 2010 Olympics? The smaller ice surface in Vancouver may have played a role, but then again Russia was successful in Quebec City. With respect to the WC's, the timing of the NHL playoffs always dilutes the talent pool available to all countries (particularly Canada and the U.S., as all of our players are in the NHL), but this would also impact Russia as some of their elite players would have been in the NHL playoffs as well. Any thoughts?
Like Siberian said, the preparation wasn't close to Canadian levels.

1. Poor preparation
Bykov built this team around the game plan that won in 2008. However, he had no plan and made no adjustments when teams successfully countered that gameplan....nor was the roster diverse enough to make any adjustments in style. There was little scouting of opponents.

2. Chemistry
Unlike 2008, 2009, this team, for some reason, had difficulty establishing solid chemistry.

Zine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-03-2010, 07:57 PM
  #91
thomasincanada
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,668
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
Russia really should learn this as a great hockey lesson. It is very similar to a team that knows how to win the regular season but doesn't know how to win in the playoffs. You need one or two beatdowns in order to learn. I think Russia will learn at the end but oh my, what a lesson it was.
I have no doubt Russia will learn from this.

The problem with being a Canadian or Russian hockey fan, and I don't think any other countries are like this, is that only gold is acceptable.

thomasincanada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-04-2010, 04:59 PM
  #92
glovesave_35
Name
 
glovesave_35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Korea
Country: United States
Posts: 15,805
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladsky View Post
...and I am not talking about marginal players like Darcy Verot.

I can easily imagine this happening, with Russian Hockey Federation going after decent Canada or US D-men, who would make 2nd or 3rd teams in their respective countries. While this will not cure all of their current and inevitable future defensive pains, Russia may still become stronger at the blueline.

Changing nationalities (only as a formality, they would still keep their original citizenship) is not uncommon in other sports. This year, a Russian-born female biathlete won Olympic gold for Slovakia, and I remember a Nordic-born skier racing for Spain some years ago. And there are more than a few cases in international soccer (mostly involving African or LA players).

Would such thing be possible? Discuss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shankapotamus View Post
Russian hockey has way too much pride to do something like that, and they should.
Agree with Shankapotamus.

I was actually hoping the US could have done something similar in poaching Sergei Zubov from Russia. I know he's played for Russia in the past, but he is also a citizen of the United States.

glovesave_35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-04-2010, 05:11 PM
  #93
TorFC-TML*
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Toronto
Country: Ireland
Posts: 2,247
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shankapotamus View Post
Russian hockey has way too much pride to do something like that, and they should.
This.

The only thing more embarrassing than having their team flame out in spectacular fashion would be having Canadian and American born players on their roster.

Russians would never go for this.

TorFC-TML* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-05-2010, 12:25 AM
  #94
ronnyweed
Registered User
 
ronnyweed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,659
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
I think the guy who suggested one of the big countries go after Kopitar is on to something.
Hed probably take more pride in helping his own country qualify for say a world championship type tournament

ronnyweed is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:08 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.