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Horrible eye injury to teammate.

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Old
03-04-2010, 11:10 PM
  #26
Hockeyfan68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rinkrat22 View Post
careful, I might go all Ned Braden on you...


I think they give out an award for that sort of thing.



In all seriousness though people should wear what they want to and it should always be that way.

I cannot play with a cage and I won't and I know the risk.

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03-04-2010, 11:33 PM
  #27
The Tikkanen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rinkrat22 View Post
just out of curosity, what other rights would you like to take away? what country are we living in? I'm a grown man if I want to wear a cage, or a visor, or nothing at all, it should be my decision. I understand the risks and am capable of making my own decisions. that being said, I do wear a visor. (and its not all tilted up)

and for the other question, Illinois has a seatbelt law but no helmet law for motorcyclists. the point I was making was that as adults we should make decisions for ourselves. whats right for you may not be right for the next guy. although I wear my seatbelt, I dont think it should be the law for adults. an adult should be able to make an informed decision on their own.
You don't have the right to play rec hockey. A person or company runs the rink, they organize the league and if they don't want you to play they can make it so. I wear a visor as well and don't tilt it up either but if the AHL can go with an all visor rule then so can USA Hockey. I don't know their rules but I believe shoulder pads are required as well. Don't they mandate neck guards in some European professional hockey league? My point is I would not be surprised if more strict rules regarding equipment are coming from USA Hockey. And if they mandated visors or neck guards I'm sure they could get a pretty big kick back from those companies.

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03-04-2010, 11:53 PM
  #28
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With the 9500 you really have to try and notice the thing.

Then again, any visor I've used has fogged up and caused distorted fishbowl vision...

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03-05-2010, 12:02 AM
  #29
Hockeyfan68
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
With the 9500 you really have to try and notice the thing.

Then again, any visor I've used has fogged up and caused distorted fishbowl vision...
I use a bauer pro wave and the anti fog stuff on the inside of the visor doesn't fog unless you are sitting on the bench. Even then it goes away with 3 or 4 skate strides. For the most part it evaporates on its own.

I am going to buy a new one soon as this one is a year old and while still good it isn't new any longer. Couple of highsticks there and a couple of highsticks here etc.

There isn't any fishbowl vision that's for sure. It is designed to refract the light so it looks like you are not wearing anything. No image shift from the bottom of the visor or anything.

I never wore any face protection until last year and decided to when I read that technology now is super. They were right, it really is like not wearing anything. I would highly recommend one to any old timer like me who just could not get used to any cage or clear face shield before.

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03-05-2010, 01:13 AM
  #30
Roccosvan
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I've been thinking about it all day today and may switch to a cage. I'm going to pick up a 9500 to try and see if I can wear it.

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03-05-2010, 01:15 AM
  #31
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Sucks about your buddy, hope his eye is good and all.

How come guys in cages or visors get hit in the face so much? Not talking about your buddy here just in general. Everybody who points out it is dumb to not have face protection always has storied about being hit in the face a lot. I havnt worn face protection since leaving Juniors like 7-8 years ago and have been hit like twice maybe three times. Out of those three times i did have to get stitched once on my brow though. I just dont see any 'bad' injuries to the guys that dont wear face protection. I have seen broken arms, broken legs, ankles, collar bones, broken ribs, dislocated shoulders, blown knees and i have seen one guy break his neck at shinny. (he is fine now and plays).

Besides a cut or two i have not seen these facial injuries that all. Im not saying everyone should take their facial protection off. whatever you feel comfortable wearing is what you should wear. It just seems that it gets made out that if you dont you will lose an eye, lose some teeth etc etc. Sure there is a chance it will happen as there is a chance you will break something or have your throat cut. I still dont see too many people wearing neck guards. Its hockey, its a dangerous sport. Whether you get high sticked or break a limb or get cut by skate is all the same in the end. You are hurt. Saying someone is dumb for not wearing facial protection is just as ignorant as saying someone is a kitten for wearing facial protection.

Maybe if i played a lower level i would wear facial protection, it seems everyone is getting their cages/visors rattled all the time at the lower levels.

PS This "i dont get payed to play" statement is kinda dumb. The majority of adults here probably make more then minor pro guys and if you get hurt it doesnt matter if you work in an office or play hockey, you still cant work and do your job.

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03-05-2010, 01:17 AM
  #32
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oh.....i lost teeth as a teen wearing facial protection.

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03-05-2010, 01:24 AM
  #33
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The weird thing is that prior to getting my 10 stitches, I hadn't been hit at all in the face once in a little over a year. Since then, in the 6 months after going back to a cage, I have been rung hard a good 15 times by high sticks right in the cage. Its almost like the cage is a magnet for it, or maybe I just stick my head in there with a little more abandon now.

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03-05-2010, 06:18 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by clevelandcrusaders82 View Post
The weird thing is that prior to getting my 10 stitches, I hadn't been hit at all in the face once in a little over a year. Since then, in the 6 months after going back to a cage, I have been rung hard a good 15 times by high sticks right in the cage. Its almost like the cage is a magnet for it, or maybe I just stick my head in there with a little more abandon now.
I think its more of a sticking your face in there, because you know your "safe". The point, I was trying to make is the US and Canada are free countries. We are adults, able to make decisions on our own. Now in those begginer and lower level adult leagues, it might be smart to wear a cage or whatnot, because guys arent in control of their sticks and shots. In upper level where guys are better players its less likely. and for the record I play at 2 different Park district rinks, so my taxes pay for them they arent privately owned. Now the other thing is I accept responsibilities for whatever injuries happen to me. Facial or otherwise.

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Old
03-05-2010, 06:59 AM
  #35
Gino 14
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In hockey as in the rest of life, there are always compromises. Nothing will keep you completely safe in a car, people are dying every day in auto accidents just to prove that. No matter what you do in hockey, the same holds true. You can wear a full cage, mouth guard, all your pads, and you can get tangled up, get cut, and bleed to death before you ever get out of the rink. Or, you can go head first into the boards, break your neck, and it's over. We have to be willing to live with the possibility that we're going to die someday or maybe that we'll never die. Either way, we can't live our lives in constant fear of dying or injury, that's worse than dying.

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03-05-2010, 08:52 AM
  #36
Jarick
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Canada,

At our low levels, most guys played little hockey as a kid and didn't learn to keep their sticks, elbows, shots, etc down. It also seems the lower levels have more guys who think they're pros and cheap shot because they hide behind a cage and would never drop the mitts...I've seen it a lot and the only consequence is two minutes in the box.

Still, I've had a couple pucks deflect up into my cage, so there's still the fluke injury aspect. Sure I could go out there wearing just a lid and gloves (like a lot of the old timers I've played with), but a frozen rubber puck and a bunch of crappy skaters with sticks up in the air, I'm not going to take the chance.

Side note, I dropped to block a shot last weekend. Puck fired right square into my boys...had a cup and pants and still could barely get off the ice or skate for a few minutes afterwards. Now I've been playing for four years as an adult and been hit in the nuts three times now after maybe 200+ skates...the odds are low, but that's why I wear the gear.

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03-05-2010, 10:36 AM
  #37
qwertysac
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any chance that we can see some pictures?

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Old
03-05-2010, 10:55 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadaBacon View Post
How come guys in cages or visors get hit in the face so much? Not talking about your buddy here just in general. Everybody who points out it is dumb to not have face protection always has storied about being hit in the face a lot. I havnt worn face protection since leaving Juniors like 7-8 years ago and have been hit like twice maybe three times. Out of those three times i did have to get stitched once on my brow though.
Perhaps these people play at a level where they need facial protection; I'm under the impression that at lower levels, you need more protection because players tend to fling their sticks in the air, have more collisions, can't control their shots, etc. A player in a cage/visor may also change their playing style and be more aggressive -- putting them at greater risk for being hit in the face -- because they know they are protected in that area.

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Originally Posted by CanadaBacon View Post
Saying someone is dumb for not wearing facial protection is just as ignorant as saying someone is a kitten for wearing facial protection.
I'd like to agree with that statement -- because I despise blanket statements -- but I just don't see a reason with enough weight to it that would make you not wear facial protection.

Guys claim their vision is severely impaired with a cage, for example, and that there's no way they can play the game with one on. Yet there's a ton of people who *can* see though a just fine. There's a wide number of cage designs (different placement of bars) and finishes (some say white/black/grey/chrome bars are better for vision); so if one doesn't work for you, there's one out there that will. There may be some genuine cases where cages don't work, but not to the extent where 1/3 to 1/2 the players out there don't wear facial protection. I think these "vision impaired" people just feel that they're too good for a cage, or something to that effect.

Which, honestly, is fine in my mind. It's their choice. I just hate hearing excuses about guys saying "I can't see!" when really, the big motivator is that they just don't want to wear facial protection out of pride.

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Originally Posted by CanadaBacon View Post
Maybe if i played a lower level i would wear facial protection, it seems everyone is getting their cages/visors rattled all the time at the lower levels.
There ya go! We just agreed on something.

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Originally Posted by CanadaBacon View Post
PS This "i dont get payed to play" statement is kinda dumb. The majority of adults here probably make more then minor pro guys and if you get hurt it doesnt matter if you work in an office or play hockey, you still cant work and do your job.
Ya, but if you're a pro and you get injured, you still get paid.


Last edited by densetsu: 03-05-2010 at 11:51 AM.
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03-05-2010, 11:00 AM
  #39
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If I take a puck to the teeth, I don't get paid for missing work and I have to pay for dental repairs. Even with my insurance, I'd probably lose $5000 out of pocket and use up all my PTO.

$50 cage > $5000 in medical bills

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03-05-2010, 11:28 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by CanadaBacon View Post
Sucks about your buddy, hope his eye is good and all.

How come guys in cages or visors get hit in the face so much? Not talking about your buddy here just in general. Everybody who points out it is dumb to not have face protection always has storied about being hit in the face a lot. I havnt worn face protection since leaving Juniors like 7-8 years ago and have been hit like twice maybe three times.

I've been driving for 30+ years and have never been in a serious accident, doesn't mean it can't happen to me. Same holds true for visors. As I stated before, I watched one of the guys who played here in the UHL take a puck of the crossbar and under his visor and he ended up losing his eye and the last I knew, was impaired in his "good" eye. I played for 5 years and never had a hit to the head and twice in a span of two weeks I was hit, once by a deflected puck and the second by a stick deflected during a shot. That second one dented my cage. Nothing in the last five.

I used to think that guys that didn't wear visors weren't so smart, but I realize that it's more a case of choice and chance, to each his own. I'll stick with a cage and seat belts when I drive, for that one time.........

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03-05-2010, 11:54 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Roccosvan View Post
I've been thinking about it all day today and may switch to a cage. I'm going to pick up a 9500 to try and see if I can wear it.
I use the 9500 combo with cage and having never played before, don't have to adapt from not wearing one.

That said, after a few minutes you won't even see the bars, I don't think that anyone's game will be affected by wearing a cage like this, it becomes invisible after a while.

The helmet itself was FAR more comfortable for my egghead than anything else that I tried.

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03-05-2010, 12:24 PM
  #42
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That said, after a few minutes you won't even see the bars, I don't think that anyone's game will be affected by wearing a cage like this, it becomes invisible after a while.
Something I noticed in drop-in hockey this morning. There's a few guys who wear cages, including one who has a cage that looks like it's from the 80's. The bars on his cage look gigantic compared to the modern cages other people were wearing... nearly twice as thick (note: not an official measurment).

If people are basing their judgment of cage sight lines based on experiences they had 10+ years ago, I'd suggest at least checking out what your LHS has now. Things have improved dramatically.

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03-05-2010, 12:24 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by rinkrat22 View Post
just out of curosity, what other rights would you like to take away? what country are we living in? I'm a grown man if I want to wear a cage, or a visor, or nothing at all, it should be my decision. I understand the risks and am capable of making my own decisions. that being said, I do wear a visor. (and its not all tilted up)

and for the other question, Illinois has a seatbelt law but no helmet law for motorcyclists. the point I was making was that as adults we should make decisions for ourselves. whats right for you may not be right for the next guy. although I wear my seatbelt, I dont think it should be the law for adults. an adult should be able to make an informed decision on their own.
I disagree. It costs tax dollars for the coroner to scrape you off the highway if you don't wear a seatbelt. Just like really the decision for you to wear protection or not rests with the person liable for whatever happens on the rink or pond you play on. In your case, you may have signed a waiver (or may not have), but anyone with legal experience knows those usually don't hold up much in court.

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03-05-2010, 12:50 PM
  #44
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Maybe if i played a lower level i would wear facial protection, it seems everyone is getting their cages/visors rattled all the time at the lower levels.
Have to agree with that, I subbed for a low level mens league once and got caught behind some guy pitching hay and got my 2 front teeth broken in half. Inexperienced players have less control of themselves, their sticks and the puck when shooting.

Playing with no facial protection is a risk I am willing to take, its a lot less of a risk doing that then jumping out of planes when I skydive, to each his own I guess.

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03-05-2010, 12:55 PM
  #45
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I'm a libertarian, so I don't buy the external costs arguments, mainly because any cost doesn't necessarily trump personal liberty. But anyways...

I have seen players out with cat eye cages before, pretty sure it's not USA Hockey approved.

But the difference between the 9500 with the thin silver oval wires and the old cages with the huge black bars is pretty huge. I tried skating once with a cheap black cage and couldn't focus on anything else, so I went without anything for a while, then got an 8500 and had no problem adjusting. When that started to rust, I got a 9500 and that was even thinner. Same thing happened to a friend of mine, he had the black bars and used nothing for a while until I got him to try the 8500, which he still uses today and has no problem (and he wears glasses too).

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03-05-2010, 01:01 PM
  #46
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I disagree. It costs tax dollars for the coroner to scrape you off the highway if you don't wear a seatbelt. Just like really the decision for you to wear protection or not rests with the person liable for whatever happens on the rink or pond you play on. In your case, you may have signed a waiver (or may not have), but anyone with legal experience knows those usually don't hold up much in court.
it costs taxpayer money whether they scrape you off the road or transport you to the hospital for "possible" injuries. Actually it probably cost more to transport an injured person to the hospital than to "scrape them off the Highway". I should know I'm the guy doing the transport to the hospital. Again, my point is an ADULT SHOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION. Life is full of "could happens" I see them at work everyday, do you have a fire extinguisher in your home? I go to house fires nearly everyday I work. Do you have working smoke detectors? do you know cpr? all things that could prevent or help when "what if" happens. do you save 10% of your paycheck every week for a rainy day? I could go on and on with the "what if's" as I said before I wear a visor. its what is right for me with the varying levels of players that I am on the ice with.

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Old
03-05-2010, 01:08 PM
  #47
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One of my team mates once said ''Theres no one on that bench or doctors to save my face if I get cut out there. I'm wearing a cage.''
One guy on our team is in EMS response and two guys are prison Doctors. We're surprisingly well off in that department.

Still won't save the eye, though.

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03-05-2010, 01:53 PM
  #48
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Satus update today:

His surgery went well, they were able to save his eyeball and work with it. The procedure basically aimed to put everything back into place, to reform the shape of his normal eyeball. The problem was not a cut in the eye (technically the cut was just below), but the impact of the blade on the eyeball.

Now it will heal 7-10 days before he needs a second surgery. He will get more surgeries in the next few months.

Thanks for the support everyone. All the comments about lower level hockey are absolutely true, everytime I go to a 'friendly' drop in skate there is at least one cowboy there who thinks Mike Gillis is upstairs watching.

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Old
03-05-2010, 02:01 PM
  #49
Jarick
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Great news. Do they have to wait to find out about the vision?

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03-05-2010, 02:54 PM
  #50
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This is an horrible injury. Glad there are some good news.

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Originally Posted by Hockeyfan68 View Post
(...)
That is all pointless debate, hockey is a dangerous sport. Wear a cage and get your throat slit, wear shin pads and get a broken leg, wear gloves and get a broken hand, hit the boards with all the protection ever sold and still break your neck. (...)
It's their choice.
1) I am all for freedom of choice if it costs nothing to society. To paraphrase some saying: your right to freedom ends where it impacts my taxpayer pockets. In a private health care system (US), do whatever you want, in a public health care system, I think you should wear one (Canada). I am Canadian.

2) There is a difference between a broken hand and losing an eye. You should take reasonable measures to prevent the former and greater than reasonable measures to prevent the latter. I do not have statistics but if you go from 1/100,000 to 1/1,000,000 wearing a cage, I would think this is a great idea.

I will just add to my previous arguments that in every society, there is a balance between rights and responsibilities. Everyone promote rights, very few discuss responsibilities.

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