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Canucks @ Predators ~~ March 07, 2010 2:00PM

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03-07-2010, 10:30 PM
  #51
Seth Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabreTooth3539 View Post
Well, Pekka definitely deserves some of the blame on those last two goals. There I was so excited that his stats were going to improve with one goal against and something like 23 shots on net at that point, when he let that goal in. You're right, he should have been able to stop it, but as glenngineer pointed out, it was a team effort and we lost as a team. I have a hard time placing full blame on one player. Perhaps the goal(s) were his fault, but not the entire loss...
Sorry, but I disagree with both you and Glenn. Allowing Samuelsson's goal when he did and how he did destroyed the team's confidence in front of him. When the team doesn't believe the goalie has their backs, they play tighter, when they play tighter, they don't play up to their potential, and commonly negative results are the outcome.

Remember in the movie "The Replacements" where they talk about "quicksand", it's the same principle here. This is not the first time either of our goalies have allowed a back-breaking goal on a completely stoppable shot and it destroys the positive mojo on the bench and suddenly a "here we go again" starts creeping into their minds.

To their credit, I thought the team actually started fighting a little more trying to "pick up" Pekka and get the lead back until the collision and subsequent breakaway where Pekka made a great save, but didn't control the rebound and suddenly we went from getting a point and heading to OT to the worst case scenario, trailing with time ticking down...

That was the game-changing moment. There is no escaping that...

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On the note of his pads, why did he get new ones in the first place? Maybe something was wrong with the old ones that I'm unaware of, but I'd say keep pads that are broken in and you're used to.
Goalies commonly change their pads a few times a season. They get their first two sets generally before training camp to break them in informal workouts and then rotate them in and out on their own schedule. When they get a new set, they break them in in practice before using them in a game.

Pekka changed the color scheme on his pads to match the third jerseys where there is no yellow. He felt his pads stuck out like a sore thumb wearing those jerseys and was correct. It was completely a cosmetic change, but the pad design, shape, weight, and everything else stayed the same...

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03-07-2010, 10:34 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Tarot Sport View Post
As a Vancouver fan, I really thought Franson could have prevented the Hansen goal if he had kept skating. Rookie mistake or lack of effort? Just interested because he's from around here.
I was watching the Vancouver feed, which clearly focused on the breakaway, but not the backcheck, and simply have to guess that he just clearly got beaten to the rebound.

Franson seriously would not win a race of almost any distance to Wade Belak. He is the slowest skater on the team and that was the perfect scenario for him to get burned.

What I have seen him do previously that might have been the case today was that he backchecks hard until the shot is taken, then starts gliding in the final feet looking where the rebound is and preparing to clear it from there. I've never seen him come back hard enough to take out the net or clear out the player. He is a puck-moving defenseman and that seems to always be his first thought in the situation, find the rebound and turn it up ice for a quick counter-attack...

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03-07-2010, 10:37 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by SLake View Post
Sorry, but I disagree with both you and Glenn. Allowing Samuelsson's goal when he did and how he did destroyed the team's confidence in front of him. When the team doesn't believe the goalie has their backs, they play tighter, when they play tighter, they don't play up to their potential, and commonly negative results are the outcome.

Remember in the movie "The Replacements" where they talk about "quicksand", it's the same principle here. This is not the first time either of our goalies have allowed a back-breaking goal on a completely stoppable shot and it destroys the positive mojo on the bench and suddenly a "here we go again" starts creeping into their minds.

To their credit, I thought the team actually started fighting a little more trying to "pick up" Pekka and get the lead back until the collision and subsequent breakaway where Pekka made a great save, but didn't control the rebound and suddenly we went from getting a point and heading to OT to the worst case scenario, trailing with time ticking down...

That was the game-changing moment. There is no escaping that...


Goalies commonly change their pads a few times a season. They get their first two sets generally before training camp to break them in informal workouts and then rotate them in and out on their own schedule. When they get a new set, they break them in in practice before using them in a game.

Pekka changed the color scheme on his pads to match the third jerseys where there is no yellow. He felt his pads stuck out like a sore thumb wearing those jerseys and was correct. It was completely a cosmetic change, but the pad design, shape, weight, and everything else stayed the same...
100% disagreed.

And how do you know what Pekka felt about the color scheme of the pads? Is that in an interview somewhere?

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03-07-2010, 10:43 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by SabreTooth3539 View Post
Disagreed.
You're entitled to your opinion...I'm entitled to my own. I've talked with a couple friends already tonight who both pointed to the Samuelsson goal as the game-changing moment and I agree with them. The breakaway was unfortunate, but the mood totally changed on the game-tying goal...

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And how do you know what Pekka felt about the color scheme of the pads? Is that in an interview somewhere?
Yeah, he mentioned it in an interview just after the change. I believe it was in the Tennessean, but I'm not gonna go searching for it. He clearly stated the color scheme was to fit in with the third jersey.

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03-07-2010, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SLake View Post
You're entitled to your opinion...I'm entitled to my own. I've talked with a couple friends already tonight who both pointed to the Samuelsson goal as the game-changing moment and I agree with them. The breakaway was unfortunate, but the mood totally changed on the game-tying goal...
Yes I am, and I don't really care that two of your buddies agreed with you.


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Yeah, he mentioned it in an interview just after the change. I believe it was in the Tennessean, but I'm not gonna go searching for it. He clearly stated the color scheme was to fit in with the third jersey.
Thanks dude, that's all I was asking for. Wouldn't dare want you to break your back searching for the article.

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03-07-2010, 11:14 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by SabreTooth3539 View Post
Speaking of Vancouver, did anyone notice that we have our very own green man now?
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Originally Posted by KiralyPred View Post
Haha! No I didn't catch that. Do we have any pics?
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Originally Posted by JohniusMaximus View Post
I saw him at the game last week against...oh, crap I forget. Thursday's game. Sorry..late night.

Anyway, they had him on the MegaTron. People loved it.
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Originally Posted by SabreTooth3539 View Post
No pictures but if he's there next home game I'll try to get some! He was a few rows behind the bench on Thursday, up in the 300s last night. Pretty funny, I wonder if he asked the Vancouver green guys where they got their suit.
Apparently she wants to be known as "The Predators GreenLady" and has her own Facebook page with photos here:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Pr...0516026?ref=mf

It's funny that something like this has caught on...

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03-07-2010, 11:44 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by SLake View Post
Apparently she wants to be known as "The Predators GreenLady" and has her own Facebook page with photos here:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Pr...0516026?ref=mf

It's funny that something like this has caught on...
Just came in here to post that. Didn't realize she was a woman.
I feel like people are going to think we're just copying Vancouver.
Oh wait, she is.

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03-07-2010, 11:47 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by SabreTooth3539 View Post
Just came in here to post that. Didn't realize she was a woman.
I feel like people are going to think we're just copying Vancouver.
Oh wait, she is.
Me either, the picture I saw of her somewhere on Flickr after Thursday's game was from an angle over her shoulder and you really couldn't tell.

I think I've read that other arenas have had "Green People" pop up recently as well...it's catching on...

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03-08-2010, 12:19 AM
  #59
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SLake, sorry, gonna disagree. While the Samuelsson goal was a bad goal to give up, Hamhuis gave him enough room to get the shot off. Secondly, back breaking to me is when a team fights back from a large deficit to take the lead and then the goalie gives the lead back to the other team. How can a game tying goal be a back breaker? He gave up a lead but didn't give the other team a lead. It sucked he gave up another one of those goals but to say it was back breaking is overdoing it a bit, IMO.

As far as him not controlling a rebound on the breakaway, you've got to be seriously kidding me. He makes the initial stop on a breakaway. What more do you want him to do? It would be great if he was able to control the rebound a little bit better but his job is to stop the initial shot and hope someone gets back to clear any pucks that are left or get a body on the shooter. No one was back to help him. No one. Yes, two guys collided at the blue line and Franson lacked the speed to get back but when the goalie makes a stop on a breakaway, I don't think you can ask much more than that. Yeah, he left the puck but sometimes you have to make the initial save and worry about where it goes later on. If that rebound that he left was on a wrist shot from a guy on the point, then I'd worry a little more.

It was 2-2 after the Samuelsson goal. It wasn't the end of the world. It wasn't the end of the game. There was more than enough time to even it up and the team didn't get it done. Am I disappointed that Pekka is letting in these sorts of goals, you bet I am. I don't think it's the end of the world though either.

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03-08-2010, 01:00 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
As far as him not controlling a rebound on the breakaway, you've got to be seriously kidding me. He makes the initial stop on a breakaway. What more do you want him to do? It would be great if he was able to control the rebound a little bit better but his job is to stop the initial shot and hope someone gets back to clear any pucks that are left or get a body on the shooter. No one was back to help him. No one. Yes, two guys collided at the blue line and Franson lacked the speed to get back but when the goalie makes a stop on a breakaway, I don't think you can ask much more than that. Yeah, he left the puck but sometimes you have to make the initial save and worry about where it goes later on. If that rebound that he left was on a wrist shot from a guy on the point, then I'd worry a little more.
Never said I faulted him for allowing a rebound. I thought it was a great move and a nice save. He didn't get any support on the breakaway and it still hadn't arrived when Hansen got to the rebound either. All you can ask for is for your goalie to make the initial save on the breakaway...at some point his defense has to recover to help him...

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03-08-2010, 01:06 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by SLake View Post
Never said I faulted him for allowing a rebound. I thought it was a great move and a nice save. He didn't get any support on the breakaway and it still hadn't arrived when Hansen got to the rebound either. All you can ask for is for your goalie to make the initial save on the breakaway...at some point his defense has to recover to help him...
I guess I read what you wrote wrong. It's late and been a long day for me...lol. I will say this, for a guy with his height, he gets beat top shelf to the corners more than I'd like to see. I started noticing this towards the end of the season. There was one particular game against Chicago where they were shooting high and to the corners. Kane beat him with a backhander coming down the right side and went over his right shoulder or it may have been Toews coming down the right side and shooting a forehander over his right shoulder. Either way, I noticed Chicago going corner top shelf a lot. There is enough film of him now to have him scouted properly. I hope Korn sees some of that and helps correct the problem. It's a shame because other than that Samuelsson goal, I thought he played like the Pekka of old.

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03-08-2010, 01:08 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
SLake, sorry, gonna disagree. While the Samuelsson goal was a bad goal to give up, Hamhuis gave him enough room to get the shot off.
It was a 3 on 2 situation w/backchecking support on the way. Hamhuis takes the passing lane, Pekka is responsible for the shooter. Had Hamhuis slid over to take away the shooting lane, then Samuelsson moves the puck to the slot for a higher quality opportunity.

We're just gonna disagree on the rest. Pekka made some great saves today and was well on his way to building up some real confidence before allowing the Samuelsson goal. It's just a frustrating night in Predator land and that's ultimately the play that sticks out like a sore thumb to me...

Sorry if I misused the term "back-breaking". The goal that was standing out in my mind was Ellis at San Jose earlier this season that did put us behind in the final minute of the game. I do stand by the assessment that it was "game-changing" though. I don't think we're pressing as hard leading to the collision if we're still ahead at that point...

Eh, I'm sick of arguing for the night...heading to bed!

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03-08-2010, 01:13 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
I guess I read what you wrote wrong. It's late and been a long day for me...lol. I will say this, for a guy with his height, he gets beat top shelf to the corners more than I'd like to see. I started noticing this towards the end of the season. There was one particular game against Chicago where they were shooting high and to the corners. Kane beat him with a backhander coming down the right side and went over his right shoulder or it may have been Toews coming down the right side and shooting a forehander over his right shoulder. Either way, I noticed Chicago going corner top shelf a lot. There is enough film of him now to have him scouted properly. I hope Korn sees some of that and helps correct the problem. It's a shame because other than that Samuelsson goal, I thought he played like the Pekka of old.
Every practice I've ever seen that Korn has attended (and he is living in Nashville now) he has worked on something with both of the goalies and done some extended goalie drills with the next day's back-up on a specific skill. Usually 2 to 3 drills in about 10 minutes after practice.

He's on top of it, it's just a consistency issue on the ice. I really don't know what has changed for Pekka though. It's been a whole slew of new issues this season since training camp. He's just been inconsistent at times throughout the season.

I too hope Korn is able to sit down with Pekka and identify and correct the issue. I know Coach Bouchard has plenty of video from all sorts of angles to help break down whatever they want to see...

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03-08-2010, 03:14 AM
  #64
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Played so well for most of the game. Too bad the last half of the 3rd period had to be played also.

Sucky 2 goals. That second goal was EXACTLY like Rinne gave up to LA just Thursday night. He made a ton of good, tough saves to keep the team in the game but then that little nothing shot gets in. That breakaway I don't know about. It was a great initial save, but he looked like he had no idea that the puck was not under him. And the Canuck player just stayed by the net for the rebound.

Love Tootoo's effort for his goal. Wish more Pred players had the mentality of going to the net (and staying there) for the rebound instead of just a couple of them.

It really was a great game, until they scored that second goal.



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5 point lead on Detroit and Calgary down to just 1 after today...
If we had won in Detroit we would have been up on them by 7 points. Instead, in a matter of 3 days that 5 point lead has fallen to one tiny little point. And we're rewarded with a 4 gm road trip with 3 CA teams.

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Just came in here to post that. Didn't realize she was a woman.
I had no idea that was a woman!

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How can a game tying goal be a back breaker?
I just think back to our last home game vs San Jose. We were leading by 1 and allow a goal with 25 seconds in the second period to tie the game. That goal lost us the game, San Jose only had to score one goal in the third to beat us and they came out with a different energy, took control and got the goal. We had no answer for it. That second goal just seemed to deflate the team and they never really completely recovered.

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03-08-2010, 06:48 AM
  #65
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A goal to tie the game isn't always a "backbreaker" but in this game I think it was. The Preds had pretty much played a better game then Vancouver up to that point. They knew that Vancouver was going to come hard in the third and they also knew they should have been up by 2 or 3 and not 1. To allow a weak goal at that point takes a big toll on the rest of the team. If Pekke had been beaten clean by a great play it's a completely different story.
Unless you've been there there's something about playing in front of a weak goalie that changes everything you do in your game. It takes you out of your game both mentally and physically. It's different then playing from behind or playing with a lead. It's really hard when you lose confidence in the guy between the pipes and that's what happened yesterday. The game changed completely at that point.

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03-08-2010, 10:33 AM
  #66
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SLake, sorry, gonna disagree. While the Samuelsson goal was a bad goal to give up, Hamhuis gave him enough room to get the shot off.
Besides the fact that it was a 3 on 2 as Slake mentioned as a Dman you let the opposing player take that shot 100 times out of 100. Simply put most high school goalies around here would've stopped that shot.

I think maybe "backbreaker" is extreme wording for the situation. Extreme momentum change? Absolutely. Either way when we are playing tough teams like Van those goals can simply not be let up. He can get away with that against teams like EDM.

The roller coaster continues for the rest of the season though.

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03-08-2010, 12:22 PM
  #67
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plus minus

well lets take a look at the boxscore

All of our top line players are either -2 or -3 and the only positive +/- players are Boyd and Tootoo. As for dmen, Grebs and Franson with the ugly marks.


Not gonna win many when this happens.

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03-08-2010, 12:53 PM
  #68
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well lets take a look at the boxscore

All of our top line players are either -2 or -3 and the only positive +/- players are Boyd and Tootoo. As for dmen, Grebs and Franson with the ugly marks.


Not gonna win many when this happens.
Yeah, well, some guys did play a good game though it sounds like to me. Arnott, Dumont, Sullivan, Wilson, Suter, Franson all get a minus one on the last empty netter which is going to happen way more times than not. Without that goal Arnott is -1 with a goal scored (and how much did he count when to defenders collide and allow a breakaway?) Wilson would have been +1. Dumont and Franson still would have been ugly minus 2's though. Ward and Legwand seemed to have played solidly just going by what some say. Too bad Smithson can't give that little bit extra they seem to need to convert some chances.

Need to play better and our goalies need to stop the shots they should and come up with a few big saves. Sounds as if Rinne played good, except one... Argh.

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03-08-2010, 07:03 PM
  #69
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It was a 3 on 2 situation w/backchecking support on the way. Hamhuis takes the passing lane, Pekka is responsible for the shooter. Had Hamhuis slid over to take away the shooting lane, then Samuelsson moves the puck to the slot for a higher quality opportunity.

We're just gonna disagree on the rest. Pekka made some great saves today and was well on his way to building up some real confidence before allowing the Samuelsson goal. It's just a frustrating night in Predator land and that's ultimately the play that sticks out like a sore thumb to me...

Sorry if I misused the term "back-breaking". The goal that was standing out in my mind was Ellis at San Jose earlier this season that did put us behind in the final minute of the game. I do stand by the assessment that it was "game-changing" though. I don't think we're pressing as hard leading to the collision if we're still ahead at that point...

Eh, I'm sick of arguing for the night...heading to bed!
Was it a three on two? If so, why was Hamhuis so close to Samuelsson? He was pretty darn close to him as far as I can recall. If he's that close, he should've gone for him. He had Suter covering the middle and to get a pass across to either of his teammates would've had to go thru him at the very least and probably thru Suter. Hamhuis gets his stick out there and the puck is tipped high into the nets above the glass, instead it goes into the back of the goal.

We're not arguing, just having a discussion.

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03-08-2010, 07:36 PM
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Samuelsson had about a half a step on him when the crossed the blue line. Knowing he had help in the middle the best thing Hamhuis could have done is keep step with him and keep him close to the boards. If he would allowed Samuelsson any room he could have cut to the middle with a deke move and left Suter out to hang on the middle. I don't think he had enough position to take the body but as a defenseman I let the guy take a shot from the far hashmarks all day long.

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03-08-2010, 07:47 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlsg View Post
Samuelsson had about a half a step on him when the crossed the blue line. Knowing he had help in the middle the best thing Hamhuis could have done is keep step with him and keep him close to the boards. If he would allowed Samuelsson any room he could have cut to the middle with a deke move and left Suter out to hang on the middle. I don't think he had enough position to take the body but as a defenseman I let the guy take a shot from the far hashmarks all day long.
Agree 100% with this. Samuelsson had no angle on Rinne. The shot should have been stopped.

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03-08-2010, 09:24 PM
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Even if it was 5 on 0, with Luongo charging up the rear, it was yet another unscreened shot from 25 feet out. Pekka cannot keep allowing those to go in, or else that 4 million dollar year is going to look pretty ugly when it's upon us.

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