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Jack Todd today about Gainey

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Old
03-08-2010, 12:28 PM
  #26
Darz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
"All these players have been brought up too fast."

That's where Jack Todd looks even dumber. Sergei was brought up too fast, sure, but Andrei and Perezhogin paid their dues in the AHL. That's a fact.
It's funny when I hear someone say that A. Kost was brought up too fast. I dunno if the team could of actually brought him along any slower (not that it was a bad thing).

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03-08-2010, 12:30 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
But aren't you yourself partly arguing against Todd? Perhaps since we get such a low return on those Europeans we do draft high (Perezhogin) we should think twice about increasing our European content? Plus it's not just the source, it's the stupidity of saying things like Andrei Kostitsyn and Pavel Valentenko were rushed too quickly in their development? Is the guy suggesting Valentenko wouldn't have been playing pro if he'd been in Russia? That in Russia no players are rushed but in the AHL they are?

Seriously, if we have so much trouble with Europeans, why is the answer to draft more of them?
'Cause we have trouble evaluating the ones that will help us. We don't have trouble with Europeans, the closest to the "trouble" factor are Russians. With the KHL and so on, we need to be more careful. But after that, we don't seem to be able to evaluate them properly. It's not about abandoning it, it's about reinforcing it and becoming better at it. Should we abandon everything we struggled with? While this rich franchise can't be about paying players New York Yankees way, how about paying scouts and development people that way?

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Old
03-08-2010, 12:32 PM
  #28
Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
"All these players have been brought up too fast."

That's where Jack Todd looks even dumber. Sergei was brought up too fast, sure, but Andrei and Perezhogin paid their dues in the AHL. That's a fact.
The "being brought up too fast" is indeed dumb. Unfortunately, because of that statement, he doesn't give himself a chance to look credible. But the essence of what is said would need some consideration. We have had problems with Euros. We need to be better in that department.

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Old
03-08-2010, 12:41 PM
  #29
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Sometimes people should just concentrate on the message instead of the messenger. How can people defend the Euros draftings or signings from this organization? What do we have to show for? Nothing to this day with the possibility of seeing both Kostitsyns be important players for our team. But it's not determined yet. Leaves Naatinen and Endqvist to see what they'll do in the future.

But clearly Habs have had all the problems in the world with their Euros. But then, Jack Todd said it so, on the contrary, we must be so succesful....
I don't think that's it.
But when you do an analysis, I think it's important to factor in and mention everything.
The early round picks we've chosen were usually good. Sure, hits and misses happen, but in general it's been good.
The Euros we've chosen were in later rounds, but Todd doesn't mention that.

All he does basically in this article is start by saying how Gainey is respected, and then disses him pretty much calling him disloyal by turning his back on Koivu and firing his friends. Even though Todd was probably the first to criticize Carbo, right now he calls out Gainey for firing him.
When he showed loyalty by defending Brisebois, he calls Patrice an immature clown.

Todd has a clear agenda. It's too bad because had he solely focused his article on poor Euro drafting, it could have been a great one.

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Old
03-08-2010, 12:47 PM
  #30
Em Ancien
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We hired Pelle Eklund in 07, have not drafted a player from the SEL since (Torp was before).

Johansson and Engqvist are his only contributions, and uh...we'll wait on Engqvist.

We need to re-vamp our whole scouting staff IMO.

Timmins can stay, I think he's done reasonably well. Our Q scouting has to improve, that goes without saying. 2 scouts and pretty much the only significant players out of that league after 2003 are Cedrick Desjardins, Carle and Desharnais, who are decent NHL prospects and Latendresse who's a pretty good NHLer. Definately not good enough.

NCAA scouts are fine, rest of CHL are good enough (not that many picks, but guys like Weber, Subban, White and Price are all looking promising) but we could definately use an upgrade. Routa is alright, I suppose.

Only real keeper is Vakourov.

Roberts and Gibson can GTFO. Our pro scouting is bad at best. Anyone who gives a positive review out of Niniimmaa doesn't deserve a job in a Habs office. Let's hope the guy wasn't Gauthier.

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Old
03-08-2010, 12:57 PM
  #31
Joe Cole
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Jack Todd playing tough guy after Gainey is gone. Way to go.

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Old
03-08-2010, 01:02 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomaridII View Post
http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...286/story.html

I wanted to post this so you guys could read this part:

I heard from a highly placed source in Europe, an expert in hockey on that continent in general and Sweden in particular. His assessment was not flattering to the Canadiens organization: "From a European perspective," he wrote, "the Habs have maybe the worst Euro recruitment in the league. Many clubs have taken the opportunity to sign good Euro free-agents. Not Montreal.

"Considering that 25 to 30 per cent of NHL players are Europeans, a well-run club can not only have European scouts, but you need to have some kind of director of European recruitment, as Detroit has in Hakan Andersson." He was also critical of the way the Canadiens develop the Europeans in their system: "It's not enough to pick a European here and there. A European strategy is needed and this is what has made the Wings what they are. The Canadiens should be the role model, not Detroit. Montreal has done a poor job with Sergei Kostitsyn, Pavel Valentenko, Alexander Perezhogin and I am afraid that AK46 (Andrei Kostitsyn) will never live up to the potential. All these players have been brought up too fast."

Yeah the Habs Euros all suck...

The Red Wings need a Q head scout because they have little or no Q players on the team.

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Old
03-08-2010, 01:05 PM
  #33
THE HOFF
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to read todd criticize someone's job is a hard thing to watch. Its like mike tyson telling kids no to bite themselves ... no matter how bad gainey/brisebois/ect... were ... a guy like this shouldn't be allowed to write in a newspaper. Some people actually read him and think he makes sense, when he's just a little ball of hate.

Back in the middle ages, he'd be sent to burn alive, in a public place on a sunday afternoon. And I have to say ; I would have applied and cheated my curriculum to be hired to throw the 1rst torch.

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Old
03-08-2010, 01:14 PM
  #34
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Halak
Markov
Streit
Plekanec
Kostitsyn
Kostitsyn
Grabovski
Weber

Yep, we sure do suck at drafting Europeans, especially since three of those above were drafted in the last round. The whining about lack of Swedes is like saying we have lots of good Americans in the system, but none from the Carolinas. Who cares.

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Old
03-08-2010, 01:17 PM
  #35
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It was typical of Gainey to go out on a limb to defend an immature clown like Brisebois

The only clown in this act is Todd

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Old
03-08-2010, 01:24 PM
  #36
montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Nattinen is the only player of the lot who was drafted before the 109th spot, and even he was a third-round pick (65th).

I think that has more to do with their lack of NHL playing time than any failure of scouting or development. Guys drafted so late are long shots, European or not.
Well if you look at the list of Swedish/Finnish picks this decade, it's kind of hard to give them NHL time, if none of them ever come over. Jarventie is the only draft pick to sign with us, and it's safe to say the Lahti/Johansson experiements did not work, at least for now.

Either way it's sliced, the Habs haven't had success in drafting/signing players out of Sweden/Finland, for whatever reasons. Doesn't mean it can't change with the newer guys, but for now our record from those hockey markets are not good.

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Old
03-08-2010, 01:25 PM
  #37
Qui Gon Dave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE HOFF View Post
to read todd criticize someone's job is a hard thing to watch. Its like mike tyson telling kids no to bite themselves ... no matter how bad gainey/brisebois/ect... were ... a guy like this shouldn't be allowed to write in a newspaper. Some people actually read him and think he makes sense, when he's just a little ball of hate.

Back in the middle ages, he'd be sent to burn alive, in a public place on a sunday afternoon. And I have to say ; I would have applied and cheated my curriculum to be hired to throw the 1rst torch.
Come on Hoff, that's an insult to Pat Verbeek, surely.

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Old
03-08-2010, 01:29 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Dave View Post
Come on Hoff, that's an insult to Pat Verbeek, surely.
I laughed pretty loud ...

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Old
03-08-2010, 01:29 PM
  #39
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wow, did someone piss in his soup this morning?

he should give conferences on "how to be overly negative on a topic and avoid seeing anything good"...

I mean, you can make a point without totally trashing something or by commenting on the two sides, but making the negative look overwhelming.
you don't have to HIDE the positive. that's outright lying if you hide the positive.

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Old
03-08-2010, 01:58 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by icerocket View Post
I still say development is more of a problem than drafting.
article is about development of europeans, not drafting. i do agree though that our europeans players havent been developed properly; i think with boucher in AHL habs are trying to head towards that direction.

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Old
03-08-2010, 02:04 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackZap View Post
It was typical of Gainey to go out on a limb to defend an immature clown like Brisebois

The only clown in this act is Todd
A lot of people bash the french media but the english media got more power because it's most likely the paper Habs players read.

Todd is a tool that need to GTFO

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Old
03-08-2010, 02:26 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Sometimes people should just concentrate on the message instead of the messenger. How can people defend the Euros draftings or signings from this organization? What do we have to show for? Nothing to this day with the possibility of seeing both Kostitsyns be important players for our team. But it's not determined yet. Leaves Naatinen and Endqvist to see what they'll do in the future.

But clearly Habs have had all the problems in the world with their Euros. But then, Jack Todd said it so, on the contrary, we must be so succesful....
You are absolutely right. I've always thought that we should have a coordinated strategy when it comes to scouting and evaluating European talent.

And while we are at it, someone should be all over the Swiss situation. Switzerland has been rapidly developing their hockey program and no one seems to be paying attention. As a bonus, their multi-cultural/French background would be an excellent fit with the Canadiens.

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Old
03-08-2010, 02:45 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
A highly placed expert in Europe??..

So, we don't scout Europe, or very little. (According to this ''guy''..)
We don't scout Quebec and Canada, or very little. (According to the bitter Quebecers)
We focus all of our attention on the States??..

Our drafting has been good in general. It's the development and handling of those players that's been bad.
We saw it with Ribeiro and seeing it again with Latendresse.
It seems we're wasting the talent of the Kost broz because we can't develop them properly.
Perez-Grabo are well skilled too, and even though they're not turning out to be superstars of any kind, they were still poorly managed.

I think our drafting has been good in general, I question a lot more the development.
Do you place no responsibility on the players?

I'm not going into details, but the two you speak of had quite notorious reputations for their lack of maturity, extracurricular activities, and lack of professional commitment (off-season and off-ice training).

It's not like MTL doesn't provide it's players with the same world class facilities, trainers, nutritionists, psychologists, equipment, etc, etc, etc. as any other NHL franchise provides its players. It's up to the player to understand, and use these to their advantage and development.

There seems more to be a sense of entitilement to the young players at the almost celeberty like status they gain locally once they simply crack the line-up. It comes as no suprise to myself that many of our young players seem to regress after they first make the team. And then come the stories about their extracurriculars.

It's rather unfortunate for our organization that in some cases it takes a slap in the face, or the kick in the ass of being traded for these guys to realize that their habits need to change.

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Old
03-08-2010, 02:55 PM
  #44
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Who needs Europeans!
both North American teams made the finals for the olympics while the rest was nowhere to be seen





just kidding...
dont flame me

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Old
03-08-2010, 02:57 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InglewoodJack View Post
...He's right though. The last good scandinavian player in the organization is Koivu.
He was drafted over 15 years ago.
We've been so bad with Scandinavians that we're now counting Finns as such

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Old
03-08-2010, 03:03 PM
  #46
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Can anyone tell Jack Todd that nobody gives a ***** about what he thinks anymore.

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Old
03-08-2010, 03:37 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
"All these players have been brought up too fast."

That's where Jack Todd looks even dumber. Sergei was brought up too fast, sure, but Andrei and Perezhogin paid their dues in the AHL. That's a fact.
Todd makes himself look so stupid when he says players have been rushed and then he says this about PK Subban:

Once you get past P.K. Subban (who is taking a long time to work his way to the NHL) there is not a definite impact player in the entire Canadiens system who is not already with the club

So he isn't good according to Todd, or the Habs should be making a roster spot for him???

Who is the Editor for the Sports section, they have to be as crazy and stupid as Todd to see the contradiction in those two comments in rushing development.

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Old
03-08-2010, 03:55 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Kafka View Post
And how many teams have professionnal hockey scouts beside Detroit? Beside that, I am happy with the direction this team has taken: picking mostly north american guys. Our euro era was the darkess of this concession. Yes, there was the Detroit russian squad in the '90s, and the swedish one currently... beside that example, I don't see any team winning only with Euros.
How many teams do you see enjoying success with only North American talent?

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Old
03-08-2010, 05:01 PM
  #49
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We've been so bad with Scandinavians that we're now counting Finns as such
Scandinavia = Sweden, Norway, Finland and debatably Denmark...

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Old
03-08-2010, 05:03 PM
  #50
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Jiggernaut View Post
Do you place no responsibility on the players?

I'm not going into details, but the two you speak of had quite notorious reputations for their lack of maturity, extracurricular activities, and lack of professional commitment (off-season and off-ice training).

It's not like MTL doesn't provide it's players with the same world class facilities, trainers, nutritionists, psychologists, equipment, etc, etc, etc. as any other NHL franchise provides its players. It's up to the player to understand, and use these to their advantage and development.

There seems more to be a sense of entitilement to the young players at the almost celeberty like status they gain locally once they simply crack the line-up. It comes as no suprise to myself that many of our young players seem to regress after they first make the team. And then come the stories about their extracurriculars.

It's rather unfortunate for our organization that in some cases it takes a slap in the face, or the kick in the ass of being traded for these guys to realize that their habits need to change.
No, I won't put any responsibility on the players concerned.

Very much like I won't whine about my kid being spoiled at 18 if I spoil him his whole life.

Sure, you can say these kids have certain responsibilities, but the fact of the matter is they become extremely popular here, make tons of money and they're barely 20.
Is it normal to see so many players get sucked into the nightlife here??..Of course they will be tempted.

Players are investments. I don't know about you, but if I invest in a house, I won't wait until it's ran down to solve problems.
Same thing can be applied with players. Before they slip up, make sure you have them well surrounded, make sure you know what they do at night and on weekends, make sure they eat properly, etc...
Instead, we wait until Ribs grows a constant white mustache and them ship him out (even though he was still one of our most productive/promising players).

I'm not going to blame any kid to come into Mtl and want to party as a celebrity millionaire. It's pretty much the dream of every kid out there, so I can't possibly hold them responsible for it.

It's entirely the organization's fault that these players couldn't perform well in Mtl.
The fact that they end up producing elsewhere is proof than there's no reason why they couldn't have done it here. It's the organization's DUTY to turn their draft picks into good NHL players.

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