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Old
03-08-2010, 05:16 PM
  #1
tilson23
 
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Van-phi

Canucks fan here looking for some information and opinions. The Canucks need a physical shut down defenseman for next year and I would venture to guess that the Flyers need a Goalie for the future.

Can Flyers fans educated me on Braydon Coburn and his status with the Flyers (untouchable/can be had)?

I was thinking of something focusing on:

To VAN:
Braydon Coburn

To PHI:
Cory Schneider

Schneider wouldn't be a "quick" fix to your goaltending position as I feel he needs a year as a solid NHL backup (playing around 25 games) but I think he has the skills and potential to become an NHL starting goalie. He won't get the chance behind Luongo, who we have locked up for the next century, but might be able to behind Leighton or Emery. I can't see Turco or any other older goalie as a long term fix.

I would assume that the Canucks would be asked to add to their side of the bargain, the following players would be untouchable:

Cody Hodgson
Daniel/Henrik Sedin
Ryan Kesler
Alexander Edler
Christian Ehrhoff
Roberto Luongo

Would any Flyers fans be interested in something focusing on these two players?

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Old
03-08-2010, 05:18 PM
  #2
UseYourAllusion
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Done. Even straight up.

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Old
03-08-2010, 05:18 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tilson23 View Post
Canucks fan here looking for some information and opinions. The Canucks need a physical shut down defenseman for next year and I would venture to guess that the Flyers need a Goalie for the future.

Can Flyers fans educated me on Braydon Coburn and his status with the Flyers (untouchable/can be had)?

I was thinking of something focusing on:

To VAN:
Braydon Coburn

To PHI:
Cory Schneider

Schneider wouldn't be a "quick" fix to your goaltending position as I feel he needs a year as a solid NHL backup (playing around 25 games) but I think he has the skills and potential to become an NHL starting goalie. He won't get the chance behind Luongo, who we have locked up for the next century, but might be able to behind Leighton or Emery.

I would assume that the Canucks would be asked to add to their side of the bargain, the following players would be untouchable:

Cody Hodgson
Daniel/Henrik Sedin
Ryan Kesler
Alexander Edler
Christian Ehrhoff
Roberto Luongo

Would any Flyers fans be interested in something focusing on these two players?

Many Flyers fans hate him now because he's gone backwards in his progression, but I think the organization still looks highly on him. He still has the size and potential to be a good defenseman, but who knows if he'll put it together. I think there is a good chance the Flyers would move him if they were offered the right deal.

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Old
03-08-2010, 05:21 PM
  #4
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No chance. Vancouver has to add.

You can have Parent straight up or add a 2nd for Coburn.

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Old
03-08-2010, 05:21 PM
  #5
Slowbro
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maybe it is just my lack of minor league prospect knowledge but i have never seen the kid and never heard of him away from this forum so my reply (to this and everyone else who talks him up on this board) is why? coburn, although playing well below his standard, is the future of the defense. parent looks like a injury waiting to happen every year and timonen and pronger will be gone in no time. carle and coburn are the definites right now, barring any trades. so why is everyone so hell bent on trading a steal in coburn (considering what we got for him) for minor league goaltender who has barely seen the NHL?

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Old
03-08-2010, 05:24 PM
  #6
UseYourAllusion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
No chance. Vancouver has to add.

You can have Parent straight up or add a 2nd.
Add what? a heretofore unproven defensive prospect (25yo) for an unproven goalie prospect (24). Makes easy sense.

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03-08-2010, 05:24 PM
  #7
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1. Coburn isn't a physical shutdown D man. He is a mobile D man with size and occasional physicality.

2. We can't trade a top 4 D man with upside, for an prospect goalie, even though I do like Schneider as a prospect.


Any interest in Hartnell? for something like Bernier and Schneider? or Flyers add a prospect with Hartnell

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Old
03-08-2010, 05:26 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
No chance. Vancouver has to add.

You can have Parent straight up or add a 2nd for Coburn.
I'd be tempted to pull the trigger on a trade like that. The Canucks turned Error-hoff, into a legit scorer with great defensive presence.

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Old
03-08-2010, 05:26 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UseYourAllusion View Post
Add what? a heretofore unproven defensive prospect (25yo) for an unproven goalie prospect (24). Makes easy sense.
Goaltenders have less value than skaters
Goaltending is dime-a-dozen
Coburn isn't as bad as you people like to believe
Schneider stuck behind Luongo depreciates his value
Coburn has shown he can be a top pairing defenseman already
Defensemen (and goalies) peak later in their careers

Pick a reason.

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Old
03-08-2010, 05:27 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
1. Coburn isn't a physical shutdown D man. He is a mobile D man with size and occasional physicality.
I don't see enough of the Flyers to know this. I assumed that he would be fairly physical; especially with his size.

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Old
03-08-2010, 05:29 PM
  #11
Garbage Goal
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Vancouver would have to add something. Another prospect or a pick or something.

Coburn gets a lot of hate, but he's shown that he's capable of playing well and playing heavy minutes or light minutes. I personally don't have a good feeling about him considering that he's 25 and just hasn't made any progression so I'd be willing to trade him if the price was right.

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Old
03-08-2010, 05:29 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tilson23 View Post
I don't see enough of the Flyers to know this. I assumed that he would be fairly physical; especially with his size.
he is alright along the boards, but he hasn;t really learned to use his size to deck people yet. He does occasionally, but not regularly.

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Old
03-08-2010, 05:33 PM
  #13
UseYourAllusion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Pick a reason.
Okay...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Goaltenders have less value than skaters
Sort of. But this trade would make sense straight up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Goaltending is dime-a-dozen
Good goaltending simply is not, if the team thinks Schneider is really a legitimate top prospect then he is not remotely "dime a dozen."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Coburn isn't as bad as you people like to believe
I don't this Coburn is bad as a future, but right now he has a long way to go development wise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Schneider stuck behind Luongo depreciates his value
At the same time, the Canucks have no reason to trade him, yet, either so this effect is negligible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Coburn has shown he can be a top pairing defenseman already
Plausible, but it was one year. And, one which was spent with a player (Timonen) who consistantly makes his partners seem better than they are.

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Old
03-08-2010, 05:34 PM
  #14
IrishSniper87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Goaltenders have less value than skaters
Goaltending is dime-a-dozen
Coburn isn't as bad as you people like to believe
Schneider stuck behind Luongo depreciates his value
Coburn has shown he can be a top pairing defenseman already
Defensemen (and goalies) peak later in their careers

Pick a reason.
I like the first one.

Schneider is a nice idea though. Maybe we can get him to backup Leighton. Oh wait, I just puked thinking about how this team will likely re-sign Leighton next season.

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Old
03-08-2010, 05:39 PM
  #15
DrinkFightFlyers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
I like the first one.

Schneider is a nice idea though. Maybe we can get him to backup Leighton. Oh wait, I just puked thinking about how this team will likely re-sign Leighton next season.
If Leighton plays the way he has throughout the playoffs and can keep it up next year, why wouldn't you want to resign him? I think someone said this in another thread but what does the guy have to do for some of you people to want him back next year? He doesn't have a great track record but his stats this season are nothing to scoff at. Who knows, maybe he is coming into his own. Still got a couple months to find out if he is for real or if he has just been on a hot streak.

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Old
03-08-2010, 05:40 PM
  #16
Garbage Goal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Goaltenders have less value than skaters
Goaltending is dime-a-dozen
Coburn isn't as bad as you people like to believe
Schneider stuck behind Luongo depreciates his value
Coburn has shown he can be a top pairing defenseman already
Defensemen (and goalies) peak later in their careers

Pick a reason.
Not to mention that this is a goaltending prospect. You don't trade prospects for established NHL players who still have room and the possibility to grow. Especially one like Coburn who has already proven what he's capable of.

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Old
03-08-2010, 05:41 PM
  #17
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Coburn has more value than Schneider in this kind of trade because he has proven he can be a top 4 dman in the NHL, and has a pretty good postseason under his belt (2 years ago). Schneider hasn't proven a thing. 6'5 defenseman who can skate with upside do not grow on trees. He has stumbled over the last calander year, but he is still young for a defenseman. His trade value is a lot higher than Schneider's.

I think better deal for the Flyers would be to move salary, as Coburn wouldn't necessarily do that for us (assuming his new cap hit will be from 2-3 million range). Hartnell and Carle are the guys that should be shopped in the offseason before Coburn, unless he is being difficult to resign.

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Old
03-08-2010, 05:47 PM
  #18
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I think Parent for Schnieder straight up would be good.

If it was for Coburn then Vancouver would have to add something on their side.

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Old
03-08-2010, 05:50 PM
  #19
flyguy
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Also, there are a lot of other potential RFA goalies that we could trade for as well. One of Price or Halak should be available, Harding should probably be available, and Bernier is wasting away in the minors for the Kings. He's an RFA after next season I believe, which would be even better for us to trade for him this offseason. We could possible trade for him, sign someone like Ellis and then decide whether or not to keep Bernier based on what he does next year.

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Old
03-08-2010, 07:54 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguy View Post
Also, there are a lot of other potential RFA goalies that we could trade for as well. One of Price or Halak should be available, Harding should probably be available, and Bernier is wasting away in the minors for the Kings. He's an RFA after next season I believe, which would be even better for us to trade for him this offseason. We could possible trade for him, sign someone like Ellis and then decide whether or not to keep Bernier based on what he does next year.
I wouldn't say that Bernier is wasting away in the minors for the Kings and the Kings would also say the same thing. Fact is, Bernier has needed the time he has spent in the minors to round out his game and he needed the time to mature (Hextall has even said that while Bernier is very talented, he was also very immature and that his time in the minors would help him mature). Bernier will be ready to be the backup in Los Angeles next season and then the season after that, he'll probably make Quick expendable.

As for Halak, I don't want him simply because he's a smaller goaltender in height and stature and the league has been talking about increasing the size of the nets (there's just too much smoke on that topic for it not to happen). For goalies that are under 6'2, that's going to be an issue when the nets are eventually increased in size and a guy like Halak is going to be at the mercy of the new sized nets.

Unfortunately, there's going to be no way possible for the Flyers to acquire a top goaltender without giving up something of substance. If the Wild turned down a Harding trade in which they would have acquired Lupul, you can bet that it's going to take a lot to pry him out of Minnesota. The best bet for the Flyers is to go after a guy like Schneider, who has maxed out his three years of minor league service and will have to pass through waivers if Vancouver decides he's not going to be the backup there. Really, in terms of goaltenders, there isn't much out there that's going to be readily available.

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Old
03-08-2010, 07:57 PM
  #21
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I'd do it straight up myself.

And can we please stop with the "goaltenders are a dime a dozen" nonsense, it's so clearly not true.

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Old
03-08-2010, 07:59 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I wouldn't say that Bernier is wasting away in the minors for the Kings and the Kings would also say the same thing. Fact is, Bernier has needed the time he has spent in the minors to round out his game and he needed the time to mature (Hextall has even said that while Bernier is very talented, he was also very immature and that his time in the minors would help him mature). Bernier will be ready to be the backup in Los Angeles next season and then the season after that, he'll probably make Quick expendable.

As for Halak, I don't want him simply because he's a smaller goaltender in height and stature and the league has been talking about increasing the size of the nets (there's just too much smoke on that topic for it not to happen). For goalies that are under 6'2, that's going to be an issue when the nets are eventually increased in size and a guy like Halak is going to be at the mercy of the new sized nets.

Unfortunately, there's going to be no way possible for the Flyers to acquire a top goaltender without giving up something of substance. If the Wild turned down a Harding trade in which they would have acquired Lupul, you can bet that it's going to take a lot to pry him out of Minnesota. The best bet for the Flyers is to go after a guy like Schneider, who has maxed out his three years of minor league service and will have to pass through waivers if Vancouver decides he's not going to be the backup there. Really, in terms of goaltenders, there isn't much out there that's going to be readily available.
The Wild only turned down Lupul because Backstrom wasn't signed long term either IIRC. With Harding being a RFA, I would expect them to entertain offers.

And I wasn't saying I didn't like the idea of Schneider, just that there are other avenues available in terms of trying to find a younger goalie.

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Old
03-08-2010, 08:39 PM
  #23
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Ill take it, it gets rid of the "holmgren signing Coburn to a retarded contract" tumor growing on my brain.

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Old
03-08-2010, 09:11 PM
  #24
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And can we please stop with the "goaltenders are a dime a dozen" nonsense, it's so clearly not true.
Cam Ward: 41 GP - 14 W - 2.74 GAA - 0.913 SV%
Mike Leighton: 22 GP - 14 W - 2.29 GAA - 0.924 SV%

Seriously?

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Old
03-08-2010, 09:14 PM
  #25
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this has gone way off topic. We have enough goaltending threads

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