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Mathieu Schneider To Phoenix for Sean Zimmerman + 6th Round Pick in '10

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Old
03-08-2010, 11:11 PM
  #76
pitseleh
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Originally Posted by Zorbane View Post
Unfortunately I rather have the cap space available that Schneider took up than the 6th round pick.

Gillis may have been able to be more flexible in acquiring other players (via trades or during the off-season).
Well, I don't think it hurt them too badly in terms of cap space because had they acquired other players they would have just had to clear space for them once Bieksa came back. The most likely scenario without Schneider is that Lukowich would have been on the roster all along, so they would have only had the benefit of an extra defenceman the first month of the season while Schneider was injured.

That said, this sixth round pick cost Aquilini about $500,000 for salary paid to Schneider when he wasn't playing for the team.

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03-08-2010, 11:19 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
Well, I don't think it hurt them too badly in terms of cap space because had they acquired other players they would have just had to clear space for them once Bieksa came back. The most likely scenario without Schneider is that Lukowich would have been on the roster all along, so they would have only had the benefit of an extra defenceman the first month of the season while Schneider was injured.

That said, this sixth round pick cost Aquilini about $500,000 for salary paid to Schneider when he wasn't playing for the team.
Yeah, I was just about to say basically Gillis used Aquilini's money to buy a 6th round pick. I don't mind it at all even though the brothers might! The lost cap space didn't hurt very much if at all since we never really had trouble calling anyone up to fill the roster and off the top of my head there's not really anyone else I really coveted as a depth defenseman signing.

This was an investment that could've paid off enormously if Schneider played like he did in Montreal, but instead it matured into a 6th round pick instead heh.

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03-08-2010, 11:58 PM
  #78
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Yeah, he did well to clean it up. But I hope this practice of cronyism is just a coincidence on his UFA signings, because in this one it looks to have clouded his judgment.
Thing is though, that it wasn't Schneider's ability that was the problem.

In the games he played, he looked perfectly fine for a #6-7 defender. And he probably would have gotten better from that point considering he didn't have a training camp.

Hard to predict that a character veteran will flake out and walk out on the team over not playing every night. And basically shoot himself in the foot because he would have played almost every night since then.

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03-09-2010, 12:08 AM
  #79
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Yeah, he did well to clean it up. But I hope this practice of cronyism is just a coincidence on his UFA signings, because in this one it looks to have clouded his judgment.
I don't know that it's worked badly for him in the past, IMO. Schneider seems to be the exception moreso than the rule. His other two former-client acquisitions were Demitra and Davison. Davison adequately performed the role of a depth defensemen last year, and Demitra had 20 goals and 50+ points last season as a top-six forward, and has been solid in his limited action this year. All accounts are that both of those players were/are well liked in the locker room, to boot.

The Schneider experiment turned out badly, but I don't think anyone expected the FUBAR that happened there.

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03-09-2010, 12:12 AM
  #80
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I think if Gillis could be honest, he'd say that he wishes he could have gone back on the deal with Schneider after the Ehrhoff trade went down. I don't remember the exact timeline but he had already committed to Schneider pending a physical, the Ehrhoff trade happened, and then he went through on the Schneider signing.

I'd rather he missed on a 7th defenseman on a one year deal than have a big miss that screws up our cap for 4 or 5 years, though.

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03-09-2010, 12:14 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by VanEric View Post
I think if Gillis could be honest, he'd say that he wishes he could have gone back on the deal with Schneider after the Ehrhoff trade went down. I don't remember the exact timeline but he had already committed to Schneider pending a physical, the Ehrhoff trade happened, and then he went through on the Schneider signing.

I'd rather he missed on a 7th defenseman on a one year deal than have a big miss that screws up our cap for 4 or 5 years, though.
Very true. He also managed to procure a 7th defensemen anyway in Rome, who has actually been surprisingly good IMO. Gillis made a few depth moves this year that have been quite astute(Glass being another one).

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03-09-2010, 02:24 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by FruityPants3 View Post
Yeah, he did well to clean it up. But I hope this practice of cronyism is just a coincidence on his UFA signings, because in this one it looks to have clouded his judgment.
Won't you look silly for whining about cronyism when Pavel Bure returns...

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03-09-2010, 02:56 AM
  #83
Andy Dufresne
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
Very true. He also managed to procure a 7th defensemen anyway in Rome, who has actually been surprisingly good IMO. Gillis made a few depth moves this year that have been quite astute(Glass being another one).
So far you're about the only one i've seen say anything good about Rome. He's been growing on me as this season progresses as well. Improving in puck movement, own zone coverage while making fewer and fewer dumb mistakes. I hope he's our #7 at the same salary next year.

Glass, otoh, appears to be going in the other direction unfortunately. Started strong and now.....I just have no hope for anything good happening when he's out there.

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03-09-2010, 02:43 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by MS View Post
Thing is though, that it wasn't Schneider's ability that was the problem.

In the games he played, he looked perfectly fine for a #6-7 defender. And he probably would have gotten better from that point considering he didn't have a training camp.

Hard to predict that a character veteran will flake out and walk out on the team over not playing every night. And basically shoot himself in the foot because he would have played almost every night since then.
I'm not talking about the physical aspect, I agree, he looked fine. From what I understand, there were some warning signs about his character issues, and after so many years in the league, things should be pretty predictable. My question is whether Gillis was in too partisan a position to objectively assess this player's character.

At the same time, it would be silly for Gillis to ignore a player just because he has the past connection.

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03-09-2010, 02:54 PM
  #85
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Schneider's contract structure spelled trouble to me the moment we signed him. With bonuses being tied to games played surely it crossed Schneider's mind that he may be getting scratched to help the team's cap situation and owners pockets regardless of his performance. Add that element in with supposed character issues and it really isn't surprising the way things unfolded.

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03-09-2010, 03:06 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Andy Dufresne View Post
So far you're about the only one i've seen say anything good about Rome. He's been growing on me as this season progresses as well. Improving in puck movement, own zone coverage while making fewer and fewer dumb mistakes. I hope he's our #7 at the same salary next year.

Glass, otoh, appears to be going in the other direction unfortunately. Started strong and now.....I just have no hope for anything good happening when he's out there.
Agreed on both fronts. Rome started wobbly and has gotten better, and Glass has been in the inverse. Glass still has games where he's effective, but he's lost a bit of that zip he had to start the year where he always seemed to be the first guy in on the forecheck banging bodies and fighting at will. Granted he got his clock cleaned by Carkner, but he's bounced back with some decent scraps, the game play just hasn't been there.

Rome I'd agree with as a 7th defensemen next year if we can convince him to take a similar contract, but he may follow in the footsteps of Davison, Weaver and Fitzpatrick and try going to a team where he can get a greater role.

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03-09-2010, 03:11 PM
  #87
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Rome I'd agree with as a 7th defensemen next year if we can convince him to take a similar contract, but he may follow in the footsteps of Davison, Weaver and Fitzpatrick and try going to a team where he can get a greater role.
nhlnumbers has Rome as an RFA. Not many people realize he's only 26 years old.

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03-09-2010, 03:28 PM
  #88
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Agreed on both fronts. Rome started wobbly and has gotten better, and Glass has been in the inverse. Glass still has games where he's effective, but he's lost a bit of that zip he had to start the year where he always seemed to be the first guy in on the forecheck banging bodies and fighting at will. Granted he got his clock cleaned by Carkner, but he's bounced back with some decent scraps, the game play just hasn't been there.

Rome I'd agree with as a 7th defensemen next year if we can convince him to take a similar contract, but he may follow in the footsteps of Davison, Weaver and Fitzpatrick and try going to a team where he can get a greater role.
I agree with this as well. It makes me wonder just how feasible it is for players like Glass (Rypien as well for that matter) to play with the balls to the wall style they seem to employ during training camp and in the fall.

If it's a situation where these guys are just in a bit of a lull leading into the playoffs while the team is playing fairly well I guess that's one thing. But if their play doesn't return to where we think it should be in the playoffs then I feel replacing them is possible.

There just seems to be a trend with these guys, they have what it takes to make the team out of training camp with the style they play but can they really keep that up season after season after season?

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03-09-2010, 07:13 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Zorbane View Post
nhlnumbers has Rome as an RFA. Not many people realize he's only 26 years old.
Yeah, he was a UFA by virtue of not playing enough NHL games - part of what made the pickup interesting was that if he had a good year they had him cost controlled for one more season.

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03-09-2010, 07:20 PM
  #90
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There just seems to be a trend with these guys, they have what it takes to make the team out of training camp with the style they play but can they really keep that up season after season after season?
Bottom barrel signings and very low draft selections with size are what brings low level grinders. In other words, you get what you pay for.

Chris Neil in Ottawa has been hunting for a while now.

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03-09-2010, 07:31 PM
  #91
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I don't think we need to worry too much about finding grinders, between the Moose and Gillis we are doing pretty good. Keeping them hungry is Vigneault's job.

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03-09-2010, 07:38 PM
  #92
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I think if Gillis could be honest, he'd say that he wishes he could have gone back on the deal with Schneider after the Ehrhoff trade went down. I don't remember the exact timeline but he had already committed to Schneider pending a physical, the Ehrhoff trade happened, and then he went through on the Schneider signing.

I'd rather he missed on a 7th defenseman on a one year deal than have a big miss that screws up our cap for 4 or 5 years, though.
I would probably agree with that. It was kind of goofy looking at our defense pairings at the start of the season because of all the players we had. Even stranger during training camp when Lukowich was still in the hunt for a spot.

Gillis knew we needed to improve the power play, he brought in Schneider and Ehrhoff to do that. If I had to chose between Ehrhoff having a great season and Mathie Schneider I'd chose Ehrhoff so whatever. Sometimes with these signings, the best way to go about them is to just double up and get more than you need. Let the players and the coach figure out who earns what.

Who knows what we would have learned in training camp had Schneider been healthy as well. Maybe he would have been shipped out on the same greyhound bus as Lukowich. That's the other part of the whole sequence of events. Schneider came in off that injury. So he passed a physical, that didn't mean too much. Maybe Gillis went down a bit of a bad road with Sundin in that he gave Mats so much time and such a long leash to join our team and get into proper shape that Schneider got the same deal.

I think it's fair to say Gillis probably learned something from the signing though, the Schneider money could have been spent on a better bottom 6 centerman but thus is the power of hindsight.

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