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so, baseball coming back again? (All things Fat Cats)

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Old
03-08-2010, 08:52 PM
  #26
Canadian91
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Originally Posted by SilverSeven View Post
How many of them have to pay the lease on a 10,000 seat stadium?
Do you think that OSG isn't aware about the lease? They obviously have a plan for it. I find very, very hard to believe that somebody would try to secure a baseball team here, thinking that it won't survive. Miles Wolff has said in the past that all that Ottawa needs is a good owner (not Rob Hall) and then we're set. This group seems like just the ticket. Face it, unless council is stupid enough to tear down Ottawa's only baseball stadium, baseball WILL return here at some point.

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03-08-2010, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Canadian91 View Post
Do you think that OSG isn't aware about the lease? They obviously have a plan for it. I find very, very hard to believe that somebody would try to secure a baseball team here, thinking that it won't survive. Miles Wolff has said in the past that all that Ottawa needs is a good owner (not Rob Hall) and then we're set. This group seems like just the ticket. Face it, unless council is stupid enough to tear down Ottawa's only baseball stadium, baseball WILL return here at some point.
All of this is irrelevant to your point, which was that teams survive with only hundreds of fans.

Again, do they have to pay the lease on 10,000 seat stadiums? Im sure you can survive on hundreds of fans if you play in a much smaller stadium.

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03-09-2010, 09:34 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by SilverSeven View Post
All of this is irrelevant to your point, which was that teams survive with only hundreds of fans.

Again, do they have to pay the lease on 10,000 seat stadiums? Im sure you can survive on hundreds of fans if you play in a much smaller stadium.
I had just previously said that the Rapidz average attendance in 2008 was hovering right around 3,000. That was good enough for 3rd overall in the Can-am league's attendance rates. There was only a few occaisions where the Attendance sliped under the 1,000 mark. Most of those occaisions were during exibition games, rainy days, or something like the Stanley Cup Final. You know full well that if it wasn't for Rob Hall, and the greediness of the Can-am League, we would still have a thriving Independent baseball team here.

Oh, and for the record, attendance wasn't the only way that the team was getting money. Aside from ticket sales there were Cantines and Merch stores left and right, as well as pricy add space (20,000 for the outfield wall, 60,000 for the part of the Stadium facing the 417.)

That is add space and merch stands that ballparks in the IBL like Cockshutt Park(seats 2,000) and Hastings Stadium(hardly any seating), do not have simply because they are too small. See? There are some perks to leasing a 10,000 world-class ballpark.

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03-09-2010, 09:41 AM
  #29
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I had just previously said that the Rapidz average attendance in 2008 was hovering right around 3,000. That was good enough for 3rd overall in the Can-am league's attendance rates. There was only a few occaisions where the Attendance sliped under the 1,000 mark. Most of those occaisions were during exibition games, rainy days, or something like the Stanley Cup Final. You know full well that if it wasn't for Rob Hall, and the greediness of the Can-am League, we would still have a thriving Independent baseball team here.

Oh, and for the record, attendance wasn't the only way that the team was getting money. Aside from ticket sales there were Cantines and Merch stores left and right, as well as pricy add space (20,000 for the outfield wall, 60,000 for the part of the Stadium facing the 417.)

That is add space and merch stands that ballparks in the IBL like Cockshutt Park(seats 2,000) and Hastings Stadium(hardly any seating), do not have simply because they are too small. See? There are some perks to leasing a 10,000 world-class ballpark.
3000 fans is a hell of a lot different than a few hundred, so bringing up the Rapids is irrelevant.

And ad space doesnt matter if only 200 people go to the game. Who is going to buy it?

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03-09-2010, 09:57 AM
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Im surprised we aren't taking another stab at an expansion team in the Can-Am league again? any reason why? cause it seems that we are going to be hosting 10 Can-Am League games and Wolff seemed all for another team in ottawa granted we got an owner for the team. When exactly does the IBL League start? and where are the players coming from?

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03-09-2010, 10:01 AM
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Im surprised we aren't taking another stab at an expansion team in the Can-Am league again? any reason why? cause it seems that we are going to be hosting 10 Can-Am League games and Wolff seemed all for another team in ottawa granted we got an owner for the team. When exactly does the IBL League start? and where are the players coming from?
They tried to get another CanAm team here but no one wanted to fork over the money for it.


The Lynx showed baseball can work here. I think fans need to have a vested interest in the team though. Get a Jays affiliate in there and I would bet they do well.

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03-09-2010, 01:12 PM
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3000 fans is a hell of a lot different than a few hundred, so bringing up the Rapids is irrelevant.

And ad space doesnt matter if only 200 people go to the game. Who is going to buy it?
You just don't get it. I'm not sure if it's because you think that all the baseball fans here in Ottawa have just vanished off the the face of the earth or something, but we have proved time and time again that we can get Rapidz Stadium up to 3/4ths of the way full, which is pretty good for an Indy Baseball town. 7,468 was the attendance at the last Lynx game, approx. 4,200 at the first Rapidz game, and approx. 5,500 at the last Rapidz game.

We always have been able to fill this ballpark, and always will. Why can't you seem to get it?

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03-09-2010, 01:20 PM
  #33
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You just don't get it. I'm not sure if it's because you think that all the baseball fans here in Ottawa have just vanished off the the face of the earth or something, but we have proved time and time again that we can get Rapidz Stadium up to 3/4ths of the way full, which is pretty good for an Indy Baseball town. 7,468 was the attendance at the last Lynx game, approx. 4,200 at the first Rapidz game, and approx. 5,500 at the last Rapidz game.

We always have been able to fill this ballpark, and always will. Why can't you seem to get it?
According to a poster above who worked for the rapidz, 5000 tickets were GIVEN AWAY FREE for every game, yet they still averaged less than 5k.

Less people went to see the Rapids than the Lynx. Less will go to see a team in an even lower league. I dont think the fans have vanished. But this is like saying that if the Senators left town the 67s would have no issue with the lease on SBP because there is ad space and people went to go see the Senators.

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03-09-2010, 01:35 PM
  #34
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According to a poster above who worked for the rapidz, 5000 tickets were GIVEN AWAY FREE for every game, yet they still averaged less than 5k.

Less people went to see the Rapids than the Lynx. Less will go to see a team in an even lower league. I dont think the fans have vanished. But this is like saying that if the Senators left town the 67s would have no issue with the lease on SBP because there is ad space and people went to go see the Senators.
Firstly, it is completely outrageous to suggest that 5k tickets were given away every single home game in a 10,000 seat stadium. I was a die-hard Rapidz fan, I never heard anything about that, I bought all my tickets from rapidticket.ca and there was never a mention of that on the site. Something like that would've gotten out, so it seems almost impossible.

Secondly, the Lynx actually had less people going to see their games in the final season, than the Rapidz did in their only season. Plus, Rapidz fans didn't even know at the time that 09/01/08 was going to be the Rapidz last game. Had we known in advance, we would've easily matched the Lynx's numbers for their final game.

I don't think that just because the caliber is lower, fans won't show up. Rapidz-Lynx is a good example.

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03-09-2010, 01:38 PM
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Firstly, it is completely outrageous to suggest that 5k tickets were given away every single home game in a 10,000 seat stadium. I was a die-hard Rapidz fan, I never heard anything about that, I bought all my tickets from rapidticket.ca and there was never a mention of that on the site. Something like that would've gotten out, so it seems almost impossible.

Secondly, the Lynx actually had less people going to see their games in the final season, than the Rapidz did in their only season. Plus, Rapidz fans didn't even know at the time that 09/01/08 was going to be the Rapidz last game. Had we known in advance, we would've easily matched the Lynx's numbers for their final game.

I don't think that just because the caliber is lower, fans won't show up. Rapidz-Lynx is a good example.
I am going by the guy who worked for them. He worked for their marketing team. Im a Sens STH, but I dont claim to know what Jason Spezza had for lunch today.

The Lynx had less people going at the end yes, but they still outdrew the Rapidz over their existence. Looking at 1 season means nothing. Its a novelty in the first year. Look at the Lynx first season, when they set an attendance record for AAA ball.

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03-09-2010, 01:48 PM
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I am going by the guy who worked for them. He worked for their marketing team. Im a Sens STH, but I dont claim to know what Jason Spezza had for lunch today.

The Lynx had less people going at the end yes, but they still outdrew the Rapidz over their existence. Looking at 1 season means nothing. Its a novelty in the first year. Look at the Lynx first season, when they set an attendance record for AAA ball.
It wasn't every home game.. but on Many nights there were theme nights were most of the tickets were given away.. like Opening night was Cub Scouts night... so all the cub scouts got free tickets... there was Italian Night... Dragon Boat Festival Night.. Army Appreciation Night... all these special events were MANY tickets were given away free.

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03-09-2010, 01:50 PM
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I am going by the guy who worked for them. He worked for their marketing team. Im a Sens STH, but I dont claim to know what Jason Spezza had for lunch today.

The Lynx had less people going at the end yes, but they still outdrew the Rapidz over their existence. Looking at 1 season means nothing. Its a novelty in the first year. Look at the Lynx first season, when they set an attendance record for AAA ball.
The Lynx outdrew the Rapidz because at the time, baseball was more popular in Ottawa. Something tells me that baseball isn't getting any more popular then it already is, but the OSG is working with what they have. IBL will work here. All we need is the stadium agreement, then we're set. Personally, I couldn't be more excited for baseball's return.

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03-09-2010, 01:52 PM
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Plus, Rapidz fans didn't even know at the time that 09/01/08 was going to be the Rapidz last game. Had we known in advance, we would've easily matched the Lynx's numbers for their final game
Fans didnt know because Rob Hall is a liar and a complete joke of an owner.. and an awful boss at that.. I remember my first day working.. he came up to me and demanded for a program... Me.. not knowing who the hell this fat guy was.. told him what the price of the program was and he just looked at me and said... "Do you not know who I am" and i was like ugh.. No I dont.. should I? Anyways I hated the guy from day one.. and I remember distincly at the Last Home game he thanked the fans for a great season and hoped to see everyone back next year... few days later... files for bankruptcy.. what a crock.

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03-09-2010, 01:54 PM
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The Lynx outdrew the Rapidz because at the time, baseball was more popular in Ottawa. Something tells me that baseball isn't getting any more popular then it already is, but the OSG is working with what they have. IBL will work here. All we need is the stadium agreement, then we're set. Personally, I couldn't be more excited for baseball's return.
And part of why baseball was more popular was because we had a AAA team. As you said, those fans didnt just vanish into thin air.

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03-09-2010, 02:04 PM
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Has there been any news as to when his league starts? Team Name? Open Try-outs? anything like that?

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03-09-2010, 02:10 PM
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Alas, I have to agree with Silver...I don't think baseball works long term in this city unless it's AAA and it's a team affiliated with Toronto/New York/Boston. I do think this city does have the ability to support AAA but doesn't have an interest in independant ball...too many alternatives come the summer time.

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03-09-2010, 03:38 PM
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Alas, I have to agree with Silver...I don't think baseball works long term in this city unless it's AAA and it's a team affiliated with Toronto/New York/Boston. I do think this city does have the ability to support AAA but doesn't have an interest in independant ball...too many alternatives come the summer time.
In order to support AAA Ball, you need at least a 4,000 average, plus long term comitment from the owners. We would be able to pull it off, but it seems very hard and far-fetched for this market. Plus the Jays are happy with their affiliate in LV. Same with Boston (PawSox) and NYY (WB-Scranton).

If we were gunning for a Jays Affiliate, AA or A is the way to go, but I would stick with Indy ball. People seem to forget that the Rapidz finished 3rd overall out of 8 teams in attendance for the 2008 Can-am League season. We can support Indy ball. Just take a look at the big picture.. we currently have FOUR different baseball organizations looking at Rapidz Stadium to lease out.

We just have to wait out the storm. Baseball will come back, unless our oh-so-great council does the unthinkable...

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03-09-2010, 03:40 PM
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Well if you look at the attendance averages in the Can-Am League.. just over 2000 people a game.. is pretty much the norm.. and those teams are still in business. the only reason they aren't in business is because Zip.ca had absolutely no idea what they were doing when they bought the Rapidz and the Owner was a complete ********* and an idiot.. who knew nothing about running a baseball team

The venue was too large/expensive to run. It's as simple as that. They didn't want to pay rent on it and the city didn't want to budge. Besides, that 2k per game certainly wasn't paid attendance. I bet that'd be closer to 1,200.

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03-09-2010, 03:44 PM
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Has there been any news as to when his league starts? Team Name? Open Try-outs? anything like that?
All info on the league can be found here: http://www.theibl.ca/index.html Article on the site about the Ottawa Conditional Franchise says that details were finalized over a month ago... haven't found 'nothin in the form of details on the franchise since then. So, either the deal went through the floor, or OSG is waaaay behind schedule.

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03-09-2010, 03:49 PM
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All info on the league can be found here: http://www.theibl.ca/index.html Article on the site about the Ottawa Conditional Franchise says that details were finalized over a month ago... haven't found 'nothin in the form of details on the franchise since then. So, either the deal went through the floor, or OSG is waaaay behind schedule.
Ya I went on their website but it hasn't been updated since last season and they said everything would be finalized by feb.5 but I haven't since anything since then

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03-09-2010, 08:11 PM
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Not a big baseball fan, but Lynx stadium was definitely worth the money to head to the park 1-2x a year.

Daytime or night, it's a great looking ballpark.

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03-09-2010, 08:25 PM
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My son's first sporting event was a rapidz game. He was one year old and you shudda seen his eyes when we walked into the field area from inside.

It's a beauty stadium too. Everytime I drive by it I shake my head that it doesn't seem to be able to work. Every game I ever went to had a lot of folks forking over bucks for parking, snacks, beer, whatnot.

It's the same deal for CFL here in Ottawa. Don't blame the fans, we didn't sell the place out, but don't say we never went, because we did.

I'm no top notch businessman, but there has got to be a way to make money there.

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03-09-2010, 09:26 PM
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Went to a Lynx game a number of years ago...it was one of their last seasons. Friend went to get beers for the guys (there were 8 of us). He came back with "Smirnoff Ice" because they "ran out of beer". This was the 4th inning. Oh and they ran out of hot dogs too. Pathetic really.

I wish the new team success, but I guarantee it will be a tremendous flop.
no offence, but what was pathetic was the fan support. Meat and beer go bad... it shouldn't be their fault that people are fickle and show up inconsistently to games. If they order to much food and beer, they can lose a lot of $$$$.

If you really wished a baseball team in Ottawa success, go to more than one game every couple of seasons...

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03-09-2010, 09:30 PM
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My son's first sporting event was a rapidz game. He was one year old and you shudda seen his eyes when we walked into the field area from inside.

It's a beauty stadium too. Everytime I drive by it I shake my head that it doesn't seem to be able to work. Every game I ever went to had a lot of folks forking over bucks for parking, snacks, beer, whatnot.

It's the same deal for CFL here in Ottawa. Don't blame the fans, we didn't sell the place out, but don't say we never went, because we did.

I'm no top notch businessman, but there has got to be a way to make money there.
in terms of the lynx I blame the fans and the city for selling so much of the parking lot, making it it impossible for big crowds to come. Anything over 3000, and it was a pain trying to find parking Vanier. But the fans were already dropping off by the time that happened. We couldn't even sell out the stadium when Frank Thomas did a rehab stint with the Clippers (I think), a future HoFer, and maybe 6,000 showed up....

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03-09-2010, 09:37 PM
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In order to support AAA Ball, you need at least a 4,000 average, plus long term comitment from the owners. We would be able to pull it off, but it seems very hard and far-fetched for this market. Plus the Jays are happy with their affiliate in LV. Same with Boston (PawSox) and NYY (WB-Scranton).

If we were gunning for a Jays Affiliate, AA or A is the way to go, but I would stick with Indy ball. People seem to forget that the Rapidz finished 3rd overall out of 8 teams in attendance for the 2008 Can-am League season. We can support Indy ball. Just take a look at the big picture.. we currently have FOUR different baseball organizations looking at Rapidz Stadium to lease out.

We just have to wait out the storm. Baseball will come back, unless our oh-so-great council does the unthinkable...
Yeah, the BJ's affliate should be here, maybe then I'd consider being a fan of the so-called 'canada's team'...Considering how big Canada is, I find it extremely disappointing how limited the BJ's try and expose and promote themselves outside the GTA. I was an Expos fan, and now go for the Red Sox (Dad's a long-time fan).

Can anyone remember why the Lynx stopped being the AAA affliate of the spos? I'm guessing the Ottawa owners wanted to attach themselves to a more stable MLB team... I can't recall how much attendance was dipping at that point, but I think if we had the BJ's AAA team, and we didn't play any home games in the first 2-3 weeks, that AAA would succeed.

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