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Old
03-09-2010, 12:00 AM
  #51
Oil Gauge
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
Alright, this makes a buyout a little more plausible, but still not an ideal option. Has O'Sullivan actually been bad enough that we need to pay him just to make him go away? I mean, sure he's been disappointing, but he is third in team scoring, and it doesn't look like we're going to need any cap space that we'd save. Letting him play out the last year of his contract and hoping maybe he turns it around seems like a better idea than a buyout, unless it gets to the point where he's taking ice time from a visibly better player (of which there are none waiting on the sidelines, at least right now).
Yeah the only way I see it happening is if they have someone that needs the roster spot and is being paid less than O'Sullivan minus his cap hit.

These contracts only have 1 year left and they aren't the reason we are last place. they have contributed to it but getting rid of them isn't going to make this team win.

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Old
03-09-2010, 12:21 AM
  #52
Kyle McMahon
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Originally Posted by Oil Gauge View Post
Yeah the only way I see it happening is if they have someone that needs the roster spot and is being paid less than O'Sullivan minus his cap hit.

These contracts only have 1 year left and they aren't the reason we are last place. they have contributed to it but getting rid of them isn't going to make this team win.
That's it exactly. Honestly, Hemsky, Penner, Gagner, Comrie, Stortini, and maybe Potulny are the only forwards on this team that I'd say are clearly better than O'Sullivan. He's no worse than half a dozen others, so it's not like he's wasting a roster spot like a Moreau is.

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Old
03-09-2010, 12:28 AM
  #53
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Buyout O'Sullivan and Nilsson and hope to god that Moreau decides to retire due to his endless injuries (he signed before he was 35 right? so his Cap hit would come off the books)

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Old
03-09-2010, 12:50 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MerryJ99 View Post
Buyout O'Sullivan and Nilsson and hope to god that Moreau decides to retire due to his endless injuries (he signed before he was 35 right? so his Cap hit would come off the books)
Moreau won't be 35 until September 22.

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Old
03-09-2010, 01:30 AM
  #55
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Moreau won't be 35 until September 22.
wow I thought he was Older, well then lets hope he just retires then.

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Old
03-09-2010, 01:32 AM
  #56
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wow I thought he was Older, well then lets hope he just retires then.
Who knew that us wanting Horc bought out and Moreau to retire would be pipe dreams.

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Old
03-09-2010, 03:11 AM
  #57
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I dont think buying players out at this point is all that great an idea.. we are not looking to be competitive next year and we need players to fill roster spots.. I just dont like buying players out in general though.. I think its soooo useless to have dead cap space.

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Old
03-09-2010, 06:01 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbiezyg View Post
I dont think buying players out at this point is all that great an idea.. we are not looking to be competitive next year and we need players to fill roster spots.. I just dont like buying players out in general though.. I think its soooo useless to have dead cap space.
How are Horcoff, Moreau, Khabibulin, POS's contracts any better than "dead cap space?" Either way it's wasted money.

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03-09-2010, 09:55 AM
  #59
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We'll only buy them out if something better comes along.

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Old
03-09-2010, 10:12 AM
  #60
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why would you buy out POS? We don't need the cap space as we will not be a cap ceiling team next year. Why not pump up his stats and trade him at the deadline?

If he was ufa next year, he would have been in the top 5 most desirable forwards on trade deadline day, despite having an off year. If the team finds it offence next year, POS might be a valuable trading chip. At least a 2nd round pick , maybe a decent prospect. If he plays on a scoring line and puts up points, he might get a first round pick like Ray Whitney was commanding.

With parity in the nhl, there are very few teams out of it at deadline day and lots of teams with hopes to make a long run. POS is a decent 2nd line pp guy and can provide the odd ES goal as well.

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Old
03-09-2010, 10:59 AM
  #61
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The buyout is 1/3 of the remaining salary. I am not sure what you mean by this.

Buying out Nilsson is a legitimate option if he cannot be traded and the team does not want to continue the experiment. Next year they would actually increase their cap space by $80K if they did buy him out.

POS is far less obvious to me. He really is not that far over paid, especially if you look at his actual salary which will be $2.3M. My guess is that someone would want him, particularly a team on a budget with cap space. But I also think he is worth giving another shot to.

Buying out Moreau is more expensive. Carrying $666K in dead cap space means after you replace him you do not save much next year and you pay a penalty in 2011-2012. Again, I would hope he could be dealt but I suspect that rather than buy him out they may waive him.
The cap hit isn't 1/3 and really that is all we should be caring about.

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03-09-2010, 11:07 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
why would you buy out POS? We don't need the cap space as we will not be a cap ceiling team next year. Why not pump up his stats and trade him at the deadline?

If he was ufa next year, he would have been in the top 5 most desirable forwards on trade deadline day, despite having an off year. If the team finds it offence next year, POS might be a valuable trading chip. At least a 2nd round pick , maybe a decent prospect. If he plays on a scoring line and puts up points, he might get a first round pick like Ray Whitney was commanding.

With parity in the nhl, there are very few teams out of it at deadline day and lots of teams with hopes to make a long run. POS is a decent 2nd line pp guy and can provide the odd ES goal as well.
It really depends on what Tambo wants to do next year, if he fills that cap space then maybe he needs O'Sullivan's cap for others? I do agree that O'Sullivan is someone we should hold onto. I even question if we shouldn't do it with Nilsson.

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Old
03-09-2010, 11:46 AM
  #63
robbiezyg
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Originally Posted by The Human Torch View Post
How are Horcoff, Moreau, Khabibulin, POS's contracts any better than "dead cap space?" Either way it's wasted money.
Khabibulin is going to count against the cap until his contract expires
Moreau, patty'o and Nilsson's contracts end next year.. these guys are all playing for contracts next year so maybe they will play well
Horcoff is not leaving this team any time soon.

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Old
03-09-2010, 11:58 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
The cap hit isn't 1/3 and really that is all we should be caring about.
Thanks,

I am aware of this as well, though you are right that most are not. The simple formula is

Dead Cap = Old Cap - Real Salary savings.

It is the real salary savings that can vary year to year if a player is on a front or back loaded deal. (Gilbert has a particularly wierd deal which is neither fron or back loaded.)

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Old
03-09-2010, 12:36 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
why would you buy out POS? We don't need the cap space as we will not be a cap ceiling team next year. Why not pump up his stats and trade him at the deadline?

If he was ufa next year, he would have been in the top 5 most desirable forwards on trade deadline day, despite having an off year. If the team finds it offence next year, POS might be a valuable trading chip. At least a 2nd round pick , maybe a decent prospect. If he plays on a scoring line and puts up points, he might get a first round pick like Ray Whitney was commanding.

With parity in the nhl, there are very few teams out of it at deadline day and lots of teams with hopes to make a long run. POS is a decent 2nd line pp guy and can provide the odd ES goal as well.
I think it comes down to - is POS a negative influence on the rest of the team. If he's not - you're suggestion sounds like the way to go. See if this year was a fluke, and really give him every attempt to be a contributing NHL'er next year. If that works, you can probably get a 2nd rounder for him at the trade deadline.

Looking at the UFA's - there's not a ton of forward help available, especially for a team that was dead last in the NHL the previous year. So, if an upgrade isn't available - buying out POS just opens up a roster spot for a prospect, and I don't think that would be an issue with the other likely moves coming.

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Old
03-09-2010, 04:16 PM
  #66
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Right now POS is sitting tied for 148 in scoring by forwards in the league. That means that on average he is number five in scoring amongst forwards on a team. At a real salary of $2.4M he is simply not that over paid for what he brings to the table even if his production is at a low point. What has disappointed me has been the at times poor defensive play. He is after all a guy who won LA's defensive player of the year. If he could cut down the GA's and recover some of his scoring touch, he is worth keeping one more year, if no decent offer is on the table.

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