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Will losing in the first round do anything for the Predators?

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Old
03-09-2010, 11:12 PM
  #26
kivaerijo
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
My point is getting to the playoffs isn't going to do a lot for this organization as a whole. Been there, done that, 5 times. Until we make playoff noise, we aren't going to get new fans / new revenue. Or at least, we can hope and pray that is the thing that will create new fans.

I didn't ask if it's better to not make the playoffs. Let me copy and paste: "From a fan base standpoint, will losing in the first round build any "external excitement" for the team?"
have to disagree completely. of course the money thing, but if you think that playoff games dont creat hockey fans, you are crazy.

all hockey fans know how different playoffs are from regular season. more than any other sport, hockey playoffs are leaps and bounds above regular season. i have been to every pred playoff game, and EVERY ONE OF THEM HAS BEEN A GREAT EXPERIENCE!!! that will get people to come back. maybe not them all, but playoff round will create more fans. undoubtedly in my opinion.

of course 2,3, or ....gulp..4 rounds would be much better, but playoffs are playoffs. gotta get in to have a chance. and i would rather be 15th than 9th in conference, if you arent going to get a chance to win the cup, makes more sense to be the worst.

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03-09-2010, 11:15 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Or would you prefer we perform like Minnesota, Atlanta, Columbus, Rangers ... up and down ... all over the place ... spend money and get nothing out of it ... that is the alternative.
I would prefer we have a playoff competitive team.

From my calculations, we have 3rd longest drought in the NHL of not winning a playoff round (behind PHX and FLO). How long are you willing to wait? I guess that's the main question here.

I said the regular season was the ticket to postseason. Most NHL fans will agree the real season starts when the playoffs start. Sure, we can always say, remember that time back in '06 when we had a really good regular season, those were the times. But, when is regular season success not good enough anymore? This is a direct question for you 101. Will you be fine with it if it's 2018 and we haven't won a playoff round? Or are you perfectly content with just making the playoffs?

When I have more time, I'm going to do a detailed analysis of why Poile was a great GM for us from 98-2003. And why he's failed to put us in a playoff competitive position ever since.


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03-10-2010, 01:49 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
I would prefer we have a playoff competitive team.

From my calculations, we have 3rd longest drought in the NHL of not winning a playoff round (behind PHX and FLO). How long are you willing to wait? I guess that's the main question here.

I said the regular season was the ticket to postseason. Most NHL fans will agree the real season starts when the playoffs start. Sure, we can always say, remember that time back in '06 when we had a really good regular season, those were the times. But, when is regular season success not good enough anymore? This is a direct question for you 101. Will you be fine with it if it's 2018 and we haven't won a playoff round? Or are you perfectly content with just making the playoffs?

When I have more time, I'm going to do a detailed analysis of why Poile was a great GM for us from 98-2003. And why he's failed to put us in a playoff competitive position ever since.
Not Poile's fault... It's not like he can go and sign a big name or even trade for one.. He is limited by money, ppl seem to forget that here. This team is first and foremost a business, and a business that needs to make money and for the first time we seem to be on that track. So of course playoffs will help this team. Making the playoffs is the main goal of the team every year. This is just the nature of small market teams and everyone here should already beware of that..
Again we can go spend the money, maybe make it past the first round maybe not then go bankrupt and have to move the team (sound like this has happened b4?? )

This team is on the right track now and is finally run very well from top to bottom.

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03-10-2010, 06:39 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
I would prefer we have a playoff competitive team.

From my calculations, we have 3rd longest drought in the NHL of not winning a playoff round (behind PHX and FLO). How long are you willing to wait? I guess that's the main question here.

I said the regular season was the ticket to postseason. Most NHL fans will agree the real season starts when the playoffs start. Sure, we can always say, remember that time back in '06 when we had a really good regular season, those were the times. But, when is regular season success not good enough anymore? This is a direct question for you 101. Will you be fine with it if it's 2018 and we haven't won a playoff round? Or are you perfectly content with just making the playoffs?

When I have more time, I'm going to do a detailed analysis of why Poile was a great GM for us from 98-2003. And why he's failed to put us in a playoff competitive position ever since.
Competitive? Look back at the 06-07 series against the Sharks and notice just how competitive every one of those games was. We came up short in four of them, but they were tight games.

It's amazing how many teams have stretches where they completely sucked that are longer than the lifespan of the Preds. Four consecutive playoff appearances and one near miss in the last five seasons from a team that has played only ten seasons and suffered a major setback with how Liepold handled the sale.

To answer your question .. I won't be fine if we haven't won a series by 2018 ... but it won't be the end of my world if we are one and done every season through then. A lot depends on how well we play the games. This is entertainment for me, not my life.

I hope your "detailed analysis" factors in little things like our budget and the sale. A quick observation, every playoff appearance is in the dates where you claim he "failed to put us in a playoff competitive position" .....

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03-10-2010, 10:59 AM
  #30
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I'm just happy that this team is still around.

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03-10-2010, 11:12 AM
  #31
dulzhok
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Originally Posted by Predsrule View Post
Not Poile's fault...
This is the thing that bug me; people give him a free pass just because of the budget.

I don't think you should.

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03-10-2010, 11:14 AM
  #32
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I'm just happy that this team is still around.
Honestly, that is the root of this discussion. Will continued non-playoff success keep the team in Nashville for the long run?

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03-10-2010, 11:53 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Honestly, that is the root of this discussion. Will continued non-playoff success keep the team in Nashville for the long run?
easy answer.......yes

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03-10-2010, 12:23 PM
  #34
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easy answer.......yes
I don't think I agree.

I think if it's 2015 and we still haven't won a playoff round, attendance will be bad. They won't be generating new fans, and the die-hards will continue to back off.

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03-10-2010, 01:17 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
I don't think I agree.

I think if it's 2015 and we still haven't won a playoff round, attendance will be bad. They won't be generating new fans, and the die-hards will continue to back off.
The attendance trend since the end of 2002-03 doesn't support your view that attendance will be bad. The paid level, which is the only one that really matters, has climbed starting with 2003-04. There's four 1 and dones along with a near miss in that span.

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03-10-2010, 03:57 PM
  #36
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If this thread is any indication of how the die-hards will react to another four or five seasons or one and done play off appearances I think we're safe. None of us want it to continue that way, but it looks like the vast majority of us would be ok with it considering the financial benefits.

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03-10-2010, 04:37 PM
  #37
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If this thread is any indication of how the die-hards will react to another four or five seasons or one and done play off appearances I think we're safe. None of us want it to continue that way, but it looks like the vast majority of us would be ok with it considering the financial benefits.
Well, about 6-7 people chimed in with they'll continue to support. 2 people are doubtful. Not that this is at an an accurate sample size, but that's losing 30% right there. And people on this board are probably the die-hards of the die-hards.

My opinion, if we don't make playoff noise within 3 years, we will be facing relocation again. Also, the unknown in all this is the economy. The new management has done a better job of getting corporate support, but if the economy is still in the tank, you have to expect to lose some of that support.

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03-10-2010, 07:04 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Well, about 6-7 people chimed in with they'll continue to support. 2 people are doubtful. Not that this is at an an accurate sample size, but that's losing 30% right there. And people on this board are probably the die-hards of the die-hards.

My opinion, if we don't make playoff noise within 3 years, we will be facing relocation again. Also, the unknown in all this is the economy. The new management has done a better job of getting corporate support, but if the economy is still in the tank, you have to expect to lose some of that support.
You're interpreting the "doubtful" responses as a 30% loss? Hamiltonian papers are less slanted in their interpretations.

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03-10-2010, 07:20 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
You're interpreting the "doubtful" responses as a 30% loss? Hamiltonian papers are less slanted in their interpretations.
Nice that you left out the previous part of that sentence... "Not that this is an accurate sample"

We'll just agree to disagree. I think if we don't make playoff noise in the next 3 years, it will hurt attendance. You don't, that's fine. No way to know until it happens.

Hopefully we make the playoffs and win a couple of rounds before then, attendance gets a big boost, and we don't have to revisit this discussion.

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03-10-2010, 07:59 PM
  #40
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Let me just say that I'll continue to go to games regardless of how well the Preds are doing as long as they are here. And I will be a season ticket holder as long as money allows. I support this team 100%, through good and bad. So this die-hard ain't backing off.

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03-10-2010, 08:00 PM
  #41
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Nice that you left out the previous part of that sentence... "Not that this is an accurate sample"

We'll just agree to disagree. I think if we don't make playoff noise in the next 3 years, it will hurt attendance. You don't, that's fine. No way to know until it happens.

Hopefully we make the playoffs and win a couple of rounds before then, attendance gets a big boost, and we don't have to revisit this discussion.
Your assessment completely contradicts the attendance trend this team has had since before the lockout. (Paid attendance is up over 3000 per game since 03-04) You claim that Poile has been a failure at building a playoff competitive team since 2003, yet every playoff appearance and 100 point season is after that date.

That isn't to say that a deep run or two wouldn't HELP get more butts in the seats, but to say that not doing so will be so damaging to the team just isn't supported by the facts.

What's next? If the team doesn't win it all in the next 30 years, it's all over? Sure seems to be the case with the crowds Toronto and Chicago draw ...... uh, nevermind.

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03-10-2010, 08:07 PM
  #42
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Let me just say that I'll continue to go to games regardless of how well the Preds are doing as long as they are here. And I will be a season ticket holder as long as money allows. I support this team 100%, through good and bad. So this die-hard ain't backing off.
That's what being a die-hard is. It's that RedWing fan who went to games in the late 70s and early 80s when the Joe was half full (at best). It's starting every season with faith in your team no matter what the so called "experts" write.

Look at Royals or Cubs fans for true die-hards..... Lions fans .... Saints fans were finally rewarded after more than 40 years ......

Expectation management isn't a strong suit for a lot of Preds fans.

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03-10-2010, 09:13 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Your assessment completely contradicts the attendance trend this team has had since before the lockout. (Paid attendance is up over 3000 per game since 03-04) You claim that Poile has been a failure at building a playoff competitive team since 2003, yet every playoff appearance and 100 point season is after that date.

That isn't to say that a deep run or two wouldn't HELP get more butts in the seats, but to say that not doing so will be so damaging to the team just isn't supported by the facts.

What's next? If the team doesn't win it all in the next 30 years, it's all over? Sure seems to be the case with the crowds Toronto and Chicago draw ...... uh, nevermind.
Chicago? Their attendance was terrible when they were bad. It wasn't until they started making playoff noise again when they experienced a big growth.

I was as physced as anyone in 2003 when we first made the playoffs, and when we had such a great regular season in 2005. And attendance was boosted slgithly. But, the team has been stagnant ever since.

The new ownership has done a better job with marketing, and that has helped with attendacne.

It' nice that some people will stick by the team no matter what. But, that's not the case for everyone. I'm sure we all know many season ticket holders who are no longer season ticket holders. I'm sure we will all know many more if we fail to do anything in the playoffs in the coming years.

I consider a playoff competitive team one who wins in the playoffs. We haven't. If we don't, I think our attendance will go down in the next few years. You don't agree with me? Fine. But, you got no "facts" to prove otherwise. You got another opinion, that's fine.

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03-10-2010, 09:16 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
That's what being a die-hard is. It's that RedWing fan who went to games in the late 70s and early 80s when the Joe was half full (at best). It's starting every season with faith in your team no matter what the so called "experts" write.

Look at Royals or Cubs fans for true die-hards..... Lions fans .... Saints fans were finally rewarded after more than 40 years ......

Expectation management isn't a strong suit for a lot of Preds fans.
I've stood by this team for the past 12 years.

Only reason I bring this up it up is because I think this trend is very concerning for our future in Nashville.

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03-10-2010, 09:39 PM
  #45
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Without hyperbole .... explain how you come to your conclusion that 3-5 years of not making "noise" in the playoffs is going to result in such a dramatic drop in ticket sales. The paid ticket curve doesn't support your concept.

Chicago didn't make "noise" in the playoffs until last season, yet their total tickets issued jumped before the post season. Actually, they had an over 5k jump last regular season to follow the 4k jump in 07-08 ... both without playoff appearances the year before.

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03-11-2010, 12:35 AM
  #46
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Without hyperbole .... explain how you come to your conclusion that 3-5 years of not making "noise" in the playoffs is going to result in such a dramatic drop in ticket sales. The paid ticket curve doesn't support your concept.
It's a gut instinct. I don't live my this "paid ticket curve" you speak of. Many fans don't see where this team is going and feel we're bound for mediocrity. IMO, That will ultimately result in lower ticket sales if it proves to be true.

Just making the playoffs was good enough for the first few years, and it helped ticket sales, along with better marketing from the new ownership. But let's be honest, ticket sales have been bad- we are being subsidized by teams who are making money.

My gut tells me no playoff wins in the next few years will mean even less support. It's what I think. You can have your proven paid ticket sales excellent mathematical forecasting formula, and I'll keep my opinion. Only time will tell.

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03-11-2010, 06:10 AM
  #47
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Just a quick response. I doubt it really has any effect on the nature of this "discussion", but here it goes anyway.

I'm not really seeing this doubt you're talking about from even two people. I see one poster whose enthusiasm has taken a hit, but still plans to support the team. The other "negative" opinions were more a judgment of Poile and Trotz. Maybe we should have another thread about Poile/Trotz being fired (oh please no!). Anyway, as was stated, this isn't an accurate sample pool so it really doesn't matter.

I'm not really sure how you (dulzhok) can comfortably say that "many fans don't see where this team is going and feel we're bound for mediocrity". In one post you agree this isn't an accurate sample size, but in another you claim that there are many fans who agree with you. I don't doubt there are fans who agree, but can we refrain from assuming it's a noticeable percentage when there isn't anything to support it? I'm with 101st on getting rid of the hyperbole.

Hockey, like any sport, is entertainment. If you take it too seriously you won't have fun because teams are going to go through cycles over a period of time. I'm guilty of this during individual games because I hate some teams or I hate watching this team come out flat. I have to remind myself that it's just for entertainment. This is our 11th season. We've gone from a basement expansion team to a "mediocre" team with a couple of years of hanging with or leading the elite teams throughout the season back to a "mediocre" team. Over time we'll go from being bad to good to ok to good to bad, etc. Patience is key

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03-11-2010, 10:12 AM
  #48
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dulzhok again this is just the nature of a small market team..
I don't know what you expect to happen here.. there doing everything they can and doing a great job in the process.. every year we are in the fight for the playoffs .. every year.. there are teams that spend more then us that weren't even close for years.. we have one of the best prospect pools of any team (another bad job by Poile ah?)
its not "a free pass just because of the budget" I really dont see how we can do more with that budget that you seem to refuse to exist..

so Ill respond to you with this
What do you think can be done to make this team better in the short/long run ?

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03-11-2010, 10:36 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
It's a gut instinct. I don't live my this "paid ticket curve" you speak of. Many fans don't see where this team is going and feel we're bound for mediocrity. IMO, That will ultimately result in lower ticket sales if it proves to be true.
I would prefer that you not speak for me or other preds fans. It bugs me when people speak for entire fan bases. If this thread is any indication, I would suggest that most fans don't agree with your assessment. Fans will question moves here and there, but that doesn't mean we don't trust the big picture or the team's direction. As a fan, I understand the team's financial constraints and if that limits the predators to being a mediocre team, which I don't agree is true, then that is fine by me. I would much rather support a mediocre team that knows who it is and has an organizational identity than support a team whose philosophy and production is all over the map.

I don't live in Nashville anymore, so my support can't come in the form of season tickets. But I faithfully follow the preds on Center Ice and I do fly from Detroit to Nashville at least once a season for the sole purpose of going to a Preds game or two; and I will continue to watch and visit Nashville even if they get continue to get bounced from the first round of the playoffs.

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03-11-2010, 11:06 AM
  #50
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I don't live in Nashville anymore, so my support can't come in the form of season tickets. But I faithfully follow the preds on Center Ice and I do fly from Detroit to Nashville at least once a season for the sole purpose of going to a Preds game or two; and I will continue to watch and visit Nashville even if they get continue to get bounced from the first round of the playoffs.
You get a for living in Detroit and being a Predators fan.

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