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Old
03-11-2010, 11:26 AM
  #101
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How many centers have been .75PPG (top 30 for center: IE first line)and Faced tough Competition. Largely in Defensive zone Starts and not the soft offensive zone play and outscored. From 05-06 to 08-09. The answer is one. There is only one center in the league good enough to do this.

This year how ever he has been brutul for the first under a coach who could not beat his own .......

The nice thing is he is brutul for the first 40 of a new contract then gold the rest. I will take the last 8 games of Horcoff now that he doesn't give a **** about the booing or the contract pressure.

8GM 1G 5A +4 Me thinks he may be back.
He may be, but a bettin man, goes no where near that.

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03-11-2010, 11:29 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
But who takes Horcoff? And even scarier, for what?
If they really feel that they need a culture change then it doesn't matter what they get back for him. Sometimes you just get rid of a player just to get rid of them. Who cares what they get back.

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03-11-2010, 11:31 AM
  #103
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If they really feel that they need a culture change then it doesn't matter what they get back for him. Sometimes you just get rid of a player just to get rid of them. Who cares what they get back.
As long as it's not Redden...

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03-11-2010, 11:33 AM
  #104
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I'd do Horcoff for Redden and then throw Redden in the minors. Actually with the way our defense is shaping up it might not be a bad thing to have Redden on the blueline for a season or two. We won't really need much for cap space over the next couple of seasons especially if we can dump Moreau, Nilsson and Sully.

What does reddens contract look like after this season anyhow?

edit: Nevermind I didn't realize that Sather gave him a six year deal with a cap hit of 6.5. I thought the cap number was around 5ish. How the **** did Redden have the bargaining power to get that kind of cash? Let's change that to a Horcoff plus Cogs for Rosival deal.

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03-11-2010, 11:40 AM
  #105
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If he is willing to take some accountability then that's good. At least they have a grasp on what needs to be pursued for the future of the club.

It's impossible to say really, but the drafting has looked stellar these last few years (imo). I have a feeling that if/when our key prospects come in we'll have a real nice influx of talented youth all at the same time. Just another miserable year or two.

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03-11-2010, 11:46 AM
  #106
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Really???How the hell do you give Horcoff a NTC.
Giving an Oiler a NTC doesnt really seem to be an issue. We should be happy that a player actually wanted one! LOL We should start offering a bigger salary if they will accept a NMC!!!!Then our humiliation would be complete.

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Old
03-11-2010, 11:58 AM
  #107
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for what its worth, i think we may as well keep him. we are not contending anytime soon, and he seems to have a good attitude. No one will take him, and i think players around the league notice things like this. We bury Horcoff imagine how hard itll be to get free agents after that.
This may be out of bounds, but hearing of the sedins contribution to the community today(1.5mil)while earning similiar money to Horcoff, id like to see him give to this community in a meaningful way.We can all agree he is nowhere even close to earning his 7 mil this year. That would go a long way with fans in this city. A long way.

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03-11-2010, 12:06 PM
  #108
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Horcoff's Contract does not hurt this team right now. Especially if we're going with cheap young players. Perhaps if we were trying to land some big name players and were up against the cap. Plus I like Horcoff as a person and think he's good in the Dressing room. Probably our best choice right now for Captain when Moreau is gone.

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Old
03-11-2010, 12:12 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmask83 View Post
Horcoff's Contract does not hurt this team right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmask83 View Post
Horcoff's Contract does not hurt this team right now.
You're right. A player with 26 points and a -27 taking up 10% of the team's cap space doesn't hurt this team. Ever. Maybe paying Ryan Stone 4 million a year isn't bad either.

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Old
03-11-2010, 12:25 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by hemskyforpm View Post
You're right. A player with 26 points and a -27 taking up 10% of the team's cap space doesn't hurt this team. Ever. Maybe paying Ryan Stone 4 million a year isn't bad either.
Wow your special. I don't think you read what I wrote. I said right now I mean literally right now. Where are we right now? We are 30th and trying to stay there. How do those stats hurt us if we're trying to get 1st overall? They don't exactly.

I also said he will hurt us if we are trying to sign big name players but we have enough space to sign our young cheap players.

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Old
03-11-2010, 12:29 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Jmask83 View Post
(derogatory stuff)...I said right now I mean literally right now. Where are we right now? We are 30th and trying to stay there. How do those stats hurt us if we're trying to get 1st overall? They don't exactly.

I also said he will hurt us if we are trying to sign big name players but we have enough space to sign our young cheap players.
He hurt this team this year and caused the departure of players like Visnovsky and Grebeshkov because of his albatross contract. If he's only making 3 million, Grebeshkov can easily be fit in. There's always a constant impact of a horrific contract.

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03-11-2010, 12:34 PM
  #112
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Grebshkov is not worth his contract and if you like Lubo you would want him to have success. If this team is rebuilding that means a guy like him can't win now so it was not fair to keep him here.

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03-11-2010, 12:39 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmask83 View Post
Grebshkov is not worth his contract and if you like Lubo you would want him to have success. If this team is rebuilding that means a guy like him can't win now so it was not fair to keep him here.
A defenseman that can play upwards of 22 minutes a night while contributing offense isn't worth 3 million? That's a new one for me. The Rangers are paying 5 million for a guy like Roszival to do it.

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Old
03-11-2010, 12:48 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by hemskyforpm View Post
A defenseman that can play upwards of 22 minutes a night while contributing offense isn't worth 3 million? That's a new one for me. The Rangers are paying 5 million for a guy like Roszival to do it.
Well Roszival is a bad example because Ranger fans hate the guy and would give him a way for free. Grebs as good as he was offensively was a liability in his own zone. Is he worth 3 million? Perhaps but that's not what he will be making next year. Besides with Grebs, Lubo, and Gilbert we had a pretty soft D-core not to mention Glass man Souray. We needed to change things up. Personally I'd rather we take that 3 million dollars and give it to a more defensive minded D-man if we could.

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Old
03-11-2010, 12:50 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmask83 View Post
Well Roszival is a bad example because Ranger fans hate the guy and would give him a way for free. Grebs as good as he was offensively was a liability in his own zone. Is he worth 3 million? Perhaps but that's not what he will be making next year. Besides with Grebs, Lubo, and Gilbert we had a pretty soft D-core not to mention Glass man Souray. We needed to change things up. Personally I'd rather we take that 3 million dollars and give it to a more defensive minded D-man if we could.
He's got almost double the points Tom Gilbert does with a nearly identical +/-. For all these "horrible giveaways", his stats sure tell me how abysmal of a player he is.

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Old
03-11-2010, 12:56 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by hemskyforpm View Post
He's got almost double the points Tom Gilbert does with a nearly identical +/-. For all these "horrible giveaways", his stats sure tell me how abysmal of a player he is.
Well that's what I mean about him not making 3 million next year. If your Grebs's Agent and look at those Stats obviously you'd be aiming for similar Money. I think Management made a choice between Gilbert and Grebs because there was no room for both of them. And by room I don't mean Cap wise I mean hockey wise.

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Old
03-11-2010, 12:57 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by hemskyforpm View Post
You're right. A player with 26 points and a -27 taking up 10% of the team's cap space doesn't hurt this team. Ever. Maybe paying Ryan Stone 4 million a year isn't bad either.

Take a read at how thrilled Oiler fans were about the contract!

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=508034

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Old
03-11-2010, 01:02 PM
  #118
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I think we can turn it around in the summer. I think we have enough good pieces from the first time we tried to rebuild. Gagner, Cogliano, Brule, add Ebs MPS and Seguin/Hall and you have a top 6 made up of only young guys and then add Penner and Hemsky. I think this is a great forward core to build around. There is one thing we need and that is the young Stud D-man. Larsson is the guy but if we want to get him we're going to need to give Hemsky another year off and Keep Eberle and MPS off the team and maybe even send Hall or Seguin back to junior. Then we need to sign no one new and we should keep both Nilsson and POS. If we ice a team like that we can get Larsson and that would be our final missing piece.
Tambo: So Ales, how's it going? How's the popcorn up here in the pressbox? Anything I can get you to make you feel at home and useful up here?

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Tambo: Whoa, whoa. Hold your horses there Ales. Don't get too excited yet. There's a lot of healing that needs to happen... Listen Ales. We've been given the green light to tank next season, and you...well you make it really difficult to do..

Hemsky: I'm NOT going to take a year off just to eat popcorn and wave to my girlfriend from the pressbox! Forget that!..

Tambo: NO, NO...of course not - we'd never make you do that buddy, relax... I kid, I kid (jabs him hard in the shoulder).

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Tambo: Oh, piss poor luck! Was that your bad shoulder?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
1) keeping Horcoff to shelter the kids is a good idea. For the last 4 years, he has shown that he can be matched up agianst the very best opposition and not get eaten alive. This year , not so much but he seems to be returning to form.

In 3 years, the kids will be able to hold their own and Horc will be making 3-4 mill and be very tradeable.

2) does it make sense to trade Hemsky this summer. He is ufa in 2 years so we can always go after him at that time. Columbus will end up with a top 5 pick and may part with that for Hemsky. He is exactly what they need.

A deal comprising of Hemsky + ??? for Filatov and a top 5 pick would be great for our rebuilding process
.
Re: Horcoff, I think you are right on the money, literally and figuratively. He should be tradeable then. I don't mind him around as a third line centre taking the hard minutes. He may even have a bounce back year. Lots of lower income teams would value a 2nd line centre for an average of 3.5 million salary for two years with a cap hit of 5.5 mill. The last two years, he should be very tradable.

Re: trading with CLB, I could see something like this happening. You are right - Hemsky is exactly what they need - he and Nash could be electric. They have been rebuilding for a gazillion years now with little success to show for it. I could see them being willing to get a top liner to play with Nash on the cheap.

I think the "+ ???" in your proposal would have to be substantial to get Filatov AND a top 5 pick, IMO:

Hemsky + Omark/Chorney/Nash (hopefully not more than a B prospect) + Nash 2nd

for

Filatov + 5th ish

Then I would take Hall/Seguin, and Nino, or one of the top Dmen. (Trading down might even be a possibility to get two more 1sts (PHX, ANA)). That would be a fantastic draft and would definately speed up the rebuild - something that they WILL want to do in this market.

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Old
03-11-2010, 01:04 PM
  #119
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How many centers have been .75PPG (top 30 for center: IE first line)and Faced tough Competition. Largely in Defensive zone Starts and not the soft offensive zone play and outscored. From 05-06 to 08-09. The answer is one. There is only one center in the league good enough to do this.

This year how ever he has been brutul for the first under a coach who could not beat his own .......

The nice thing is he is brutul for the first 40 of a new contract then gold the rest. I will take the last 8 games of Horcoff now that he doesn't give a **** about the booing or the contract pressure.

8GM 1G 5A +4 Me thinks he may be back.
Great to see you back, oilerbear! Because I'm really looking forward to a follow up to your post here

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p...1#post17688311

Since, as you said, points per cap hit means everything, I'm just curious if this is still true since Horcoff is doing his best impression of a sack of manure, or if you've somehow "changed your mind". Thanks!

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Old
03-11-2010, 01:31 PM
  #120
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Great to see you back, oilerbear! Because I'm really looking forward to a follow up to your post here

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p...1#post17688311

Since, as you said, points per cap hit means everything, I'm just curious if this is still true since Horcoff is doing his best impression of a sack of manure, or if you've somehow "changed your mind". Thanks!
Oh-snap! I love it when the arguements come back to bite people in the butt!

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Old
03-11-2010, 01:39 PM
  #121
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The hate for Horc is going to result in a catclismic hate that will eventually devour the world.

I remember when Marleau had his off year, he had 48 points and was -19, now he will be on off the biggest UFA of the offseason.

Any way. people ahve off years, as a whole, Horcs stat over the past 4 years indicate he will bounce back. He will probably never get 70 points again, but if he plays a 2nd line or even 3rd line roll and puts up 50 points. I am fine with him.

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03-11-2010, 01:40 PM
  #122
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He hurt this team this year and caused the departure of players like Visnovsky and Grebeshkov because of his albatross contract. If he's only making 3 million, Grebeshkov can easily be fit in. There's always a constant impact of a horrific contract.
The departure of Visnovsky had just as much (if not more, if not entirely) the decision to rebuild the franchise with younger players. If anything, Souray's injury caused the departure of Visnovsky.

Grebshkov is inconsistent, and I disagree that he is worth the $3 million that he is going to make. Even if Grebeshkov could be fit in if Horcoff's contract was smaller, I still have no issues with the Grebeshkov trade.


Given the trades that have occurred, Jmask's comment is particularly true at the moment. I don't foresee the Oilers picking up any big, long term contracts (they may try a short term Jagr thing or something to buy some time), and I don't see the Oilers being in dire straits with respect to the cap anymore.

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03-11-2010, 01:40 PM
  #123
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-excited for MPS Lander and Petry
Did he say anything specific about Lander? It seems the org really likes him, I wonder if they think he can make the team next year?

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03-11-2010, 01:45 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanschu View Post
Grebshkov is inconsistent, and I disagree that he is worth the $3 million that he is going to make. Even if Grebeshkov could be fit in if Horcoff's contract was smaller, I still have no issues with the Grebeshkov trade.
I have a feeling he's going to be proving a lot of people wrong in Nashville. Poile's a virtuoso with defensemen, and I really think he can transform into a great player while he's being sheltered by guys like Weber and Suter. He still could have done that here, but the fans had given up on him. It's really too bad. I liked what he brought to the table.

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03-11-2010, 02:14 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by hemskyforpm View Post
I have a feeling he's going to be proving a lot of people wrong in Nashville. Poile's a virtuoso with defensemen, and I really think he can transform into a great player while he's being sheltered by guys like Weber and Suter. He still could have done that here, but the fans had given up on him. It's really too bad. I liked what he brought to the table.
Doesn't matter because he wasn't going to be here after next year anyway.Agreeing to one year deals says that he was waiting to get to UFA anyway.I had no problem with Grebs but give me someone who wants to be here.

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