Vancouver Canucks winger Steve Bernier will be out 4-6 weeks after undergoing successful surgery for a sports hernia on Thursday.
Bernier suffered a groin pull in January and hasn't been able to overcome the nagging injury. After leaving the team last week for further evaluation back in Vancouver, it was determined that he had a small abdominal tear that required surgery.
Nevermind, it's in the injury thread, but does this mean Grabner is called up? Who else could be a candidate to come up, or do you think Gillis will plow forward with Glass/Hordichuk/Johnson/Rypien in the lineup? Do we need the extra grit or scoring more?
Hansen has been playing great. I know people are anxious to play Grabner for all kinds of reasons but Hansen deserves the spot he's in now. I'm not saying you can't give him a short leash but he's been solid on our third line for a good week now.
Nevermind, it's in the injury thread, but does this mean Grabner is called up? Who else could be a candidate to come up, or do you think Gillis will plow forward with Glass/Hordichuk/Johnson/Rypien in the lineup? Do we need the extra grit or scoring more?
Considering that the line-up is better without him, I say we just "plow forward".
Considering that the line-up is better without him, I say we just "plow forward".
But remember this: who will AV play in his stead, as Hansen will eventually return to AV's dog house? Will he call up from the moose? Grabner maybe? Shirokov possibly? No. We will see more of Hordichuk, Rypien, Johnson, and Glass. You can say many things about Bernier but at least Bernier isn't as bad as Hordichuk, Johnson, Rypien and the steadily worsening Glass.
But remember this: who will AV play in his stead, as Hansen will eventually return to AV's dog house? Will he call up from the moose? Grabner maybe? Shirokov possibly? No. We will see more of Hordichuk, Rypien, Johnson, and Glass. You can say many things about Bernier but at least Bernier isn't as bad as Hordichuk, Johnson, Rypien and the steadily worsening Glass.
Bernier may not be as bad as those 4, but those guys are 4th liners, Bernier is considered a third liner. With Bernier on the third liner, this team is a whole lot weaker.
I'd take any one of Hansen, Shirikov or Grabner over Bernier - at least those guys can skate.
Playoffs start in roughly 5 weeks. Be good to have him, if only for depth.
Bernier along with Johnson both seemed to double their intensity level in last years playoffs and were two of our hardest working players, so hopefully Bernier will be 100% by then.
Bernier may not be as bad as those 4, but those guys are 4th liners, Bernier is considered a third liner. With Bernier on the third liner, this team is a whole lot weaker.
I'd take any one of Hansen, Shirikov or Grabner over Bernier - at least those guys can skate.
Yeah, I definitely agree with the sentiment that Bernier isn't the best third liner, I was just saying that even though Bernier is out, AV wouldn't call up any one to replace him, instead we will see fourth liners being plugged in. I like Hansen and I hope his recent good play continues, but we all know if he screws up even once, he's back in AV's dog house.
On another note; I would love to see the Kesler, Raymond, Grabner like reunited, although that kind of wrecks the only good defensive line we have. We'll have to see though, Burrows and Kesler have only been reunited for 1.5 games, maybe we'll see some improvements from them because even though they're responsible defensively, we haven't seen much if any offense from them.
Boy does Bernier ever get a lot of hate on this board. Consider that he was hurt in the Calgary game on January 9th and that he likely has not been healthy since then.
To that point, he had played 42 games, had 18 points and 10 goals. Those are great numbers for a bottom six player and combined with the fact that he's a grinder who throws his weight around and can actually play hockey I think he can and usually does play a valuable role for this team.
I hope he makes a return in time to get back into gear for the start of the playoffs, because that's where we'll need him most.
What a waste of a second round pick he turned out to be...
*shrug*
Even if he doesn't work out long term, he gave us depth last year when we definitely didn't have it and this year when we arguably still needed it (I guess we couldn't signed Dave Scatchard or Ronald Petrovicky...).
At the end of the day he'll end up playing about 300 games for this organization as a top nine forward before his next contract is up.. that's more than a lot of teams get out of an average second rounder.
And of course, that's all granting (for the sake of argument) every single one of your assumptions about Bernier and his impact on the game.
It's good to know there was a reason for how badly his play slipped off. He will always be a frustrating player because he is completely inept with the puck and has zero vision, but if you can get him back for the playoffs with a very clearly defined role (play the body, crash the net, don't worry about anything else), he could be useful. I'd like to see him be an effective net pest like Byfuglien.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roddy
*shrug*
Even if he doesn't work out long term, he gave us depth last year when we definitely didn't have it and this year when we arguably still needed it (I guess we couldn't signed Dave Scatchard or Ronald Petrovicky...).
At the end of the day he'll end up playing about 300 games for this organization as a top nine forward before his next contract is up.. that's more than a lot of teams get out of an average second rounder.
And of course, that's all granting (for the sake of argument) every single one of your assumptions about Bernier and his impact on the game.
No matter how you want to spin it, it wasn't great asset management. He cost a 2nd and a 3rd, and is probably only worth a 3rd now.
No matter how you want to spin it, it wasn't great asset management. He cost a 2nd and a 3rd, and is probably only worth a 3rd now.
So if Bernier doesn't play another game for the Canucks and we traded him for a 3rd (which is what his value apparently is right now), we would have traded a pick that looks like it will be somewhere between 50th and 60th overall in exchange for 147 games from a top nine player who brought an element of his game that only one or two other players in our top line do.
I think that's an acceptable trade-off - certainly better value than Buffalo, Washington, Boston and Ottawa (twice) got for the 2010 2nd rounders they traded at the deadline.
Don't get me wrong, I would be cheesed if Gillis put together an entire third line with guys he traded high draft picks to get - that's bad asset management. I just think that identifying a player that helps your forward group in an area where they really need it and spending a pick or two to get him is an acceptable use of picks.
So if Bernier doesn't play another game for the Canucks and we traded him for a 3rd (which is what his value apparently is right now), we would have traded a pick that looks like it will be somewhere between 50th and 60th overall in exchange for 147 games from a top nine player who brought an element of his game that only one or two other players in our top line do.
I think that's an acceptable trade-off - certainly better value than Buffalo, Washington, Boston and Ottawa (twice) got for the 2010 2nd rounders they traded at the deadline.
Don't get me wrong, I would be cheesed if Gillis put together an entire third line with guys he traded high draft picks to get - that's bad asset management. I just think that identifying a player that helps your forward group in an area where they really need it and spending a pick or two to get him is an acceptable use of picks.
I understand what you are saying, but they paid a premium in assets and salary for a 3rd liner, and from the way Gillis spun it at the time, they felt it was worth it because he was a top 6 player. I'd say poor pro scouting, and they probably could have gotten a better contribution off the UFA market (~$2m) and had two more prospects in the system right now. That 2nd would also have landed a better acquisition for the playoffs than Bernier will probably be.
I understand your point about games played, but it's not like he was a huge part of the team's success. Someone has to play those games.
EDIT: before I'm called out on the Gillis comment:
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Mike Gillis
“Steve Bernier is a highly regarded young player who’s enjoyed success early in his career,” said Gillis. “With his right-handed shot he will be a great addition to our top six forward group and an asset to our power play.”
I understand what you are saying, but they paid a premium in assets and salary for a 3rd liner, and from the way Gillis spun it at the time, they felt it was worth it because he was a top 6 player. I'd say poor pro scouting, and they probably could have gotten a better contribution off the UFA market (~$2m) and had two more prospects in the system right now. That 2nd would also have landed a better acquisition for the playoffs than Bernier will probably be.
I think Gillis had the right idea with that trade though. Sometimes the player just doesn't progress like you had hoped and thought he would. I'd have a bigger problem with the pro-scouting if Samuelsson wasn't providing exceptional offense from the 2nd line and Ehrhoff hadn't excelled the way he has.
I like the idea of taking on projects like Bernier. If he doesn't pan out, move him for a small loss, if he does pan out, you've got a steal on your hands.
As it sits right now, it's not a very good trade. However, it was still the right move at the time IMO.
The Canucks are smaller and softer without Bernier.
Imagine Bernier and Mitchell return, fresh for the play-offs. All good.
I've always supported Bernier but the fact is; he doesn't play big anymore, he doesn't challenge for the puck anymore and he doesn't crash the net as much as he should anymore. He'll go to the net on the PP sometimes but then he just seems to miss the pass or miss the net.
That said. If Bernier uses his size to his advantage and starts laying out bodies, crashing the net and taking care of his team mates, I'll return to supporting him.
The bottom line with Bernier is that he is starting to look more and more like Pyatt.
