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Playing D and knocking down pucks in the air

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Old
03-11-2010, 12:57 AM
  #1
Hockeyfan68
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Playing D and knocking down pucks in the air

I play D ... at least I think so haha.

Okay so I have this habit of knocking pucks (shots on goal) down out of the air with my stick shaft or blade or with any body part I have available. I am actually quite good at it but our goalie hates it when I do it even though more often than not trouble doesn't result from it.

I would like to hear from some Dmen and goalies and get their opinions on it in here.

Honestly I do it out of instinct .... so is the goalie just being a whine ass or what?

I think I have redirected 2 goals in our own net in about 6 months and probably saved a dozen imho. The goalie says he would have had them anyway.

I should add I don't do this all the time and pick when I do it which is determined by the situation, if the shooter has a clear lane to the net for a shot I will usually let the goalie have it but if there are people in front I really try to get a stick on it or redirect it to the corners or knock it down to get a clear or skate it out of our end.

I try to block a shot traditionally first but sometimes there is not enough time and knocking a shot down works for me.

Redirecting easy shots on goal would be stupid honestly so I do not do that to him.

Obviously it isn't an exact science and it can backfire but it seems like I do what I want with it more often than not.

Anyway .... if I were not good at it I would not even try to but I am, is this wrong?

I have been playing D for about a year or so and it is not so new to me anymore but sometimes I wonder about tips from experienced Dmen in here. I have played hockey for 35 years or so, just not D and I know what I am doing. I really do not know where to rate mah skillz in other words but I am experienced at playing.

I'll get what you are talking about in other words.

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03-11-2010, 05:22 AM
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funserious
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If it's the right situation like you mentioned, then do it. If the goalie complains he probably just wants big saves to look good.

Anything to help the team

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03-11-2010, 05:31 AM
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MJAYK
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To me it sounds like you are trying to do the job of a centreman

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03-11-2010, 06:17 AM
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When I'm playing defense I only like blocking shots with my stick from in close to the shooter, if it's a shot from the point and I'm in front of the net I'll only go for it if I can get a leg/skate on it.

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03-11-2010, 08:07 AM
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TheShoe82
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Most goalies will not like it if you attempt to block shots or deflect shots. I used to drive our goalie nuts doing so. If you are far enough away from the net and theres a very very good chance you can get a complete shot block, go for it. If you are close to the crease and you use a hand or stick to try and block it, I wouldnt even bother.

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03-11-2010, 02:46 PM
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Hockeyfan68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superstar Treatment View Post
When I'm playing defense I only like blocking shots with my stick from in close to the shooter, if it's a shot from the point and I'm in front of the net I'll only go for it if I can get a leg/skate on it.
Well that certainly makes sense ... I also like to wait until I know a shot will be made and then stick my blade out just as he shoots and it hits the netting above the glass and goes out of play. I love doing that actually.

I'll make a note of the trying to block it with something else if at the top of the crease or if he (goalie man) has a clear sight line just let him have it which i usually do. Again I don't knock shots down for no reason at all.

Thanks for the response I will put some of this into play when we play again. I always feel like i always have to do something to keep the puck out and just like with most things sometimes less is more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShoe82 View Post
Most goalies will not like it if you attempt to block shots or deflect shots. I used to drive our goalie nuts doing so. If you are far enough away from the net and theres a very very good chance you can get a complete shot block, go for it. If you are close to the crease and you use a hand or stick to try and block it, I wouldnt even bother.
Again thanks for the tip, I am going to talk this over with him more and see exactly what bothers him and what doesn't. it wasn't like he was mad or anything, he didn't yell anything or say anything angrily but he did mention I shouldn't do that. I got the feeling like he wasn't telling me the whole story because he may feel I would be offended or something. I'll make sure he know how i feel about it and we will work out something that works.

He also knows I am still learning the D position, I have most it down but like with everything you can learn something new always.

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03-11-2010, 02:58 PM
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I wouldnt try to block the shot with your stick unless its along the ice and your holding your stick very hard (to actually stop the shot not deflect it).

Goalie isn't being a whine ass. He shouldnt have to worry about getting shots deflected by his own teammate when it would normally be a routine save. Unless your 1-2 feet away from the guy taking the shot and not right next to the crease, don't bother. Your goalie should be able to make the save.

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03-11-2010, 03:17 PM
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Hockeyfan68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
I wouldnt try to block the shot with your stick unless its along the ice and your holding your stick very hard (to actually stop the shot not deflect it).

Goalie isn't being a whine ass. He shouldnt have to worry about getting shots deflected by his own teammate when it would normally be a routine save. Unless your 1-2 feet away from the guy taking the shot and not right next to the crease, don't bother. Your goalie should be able to make the save.
Well that's the thing, I typed above that the routine easy shots I do not do this as there isn't a need to. Those I let go through to him or steal the shot with a skate or something.

The situation dictates what I do like sometimes I will fold my blade over and deflect with a backhand side into the corner if it is flat on the ice out of danger OR knock it down because I am better at it than most people and am confident with it and send the play up ice afterwards or make a clear.

I want to reiterate that I'm not a noob at hockey and am not knocking pucks down all the time all over the place "just because". I am however new to playing D and have done it only for a year but have played hockey for 35 years. I am 41 years old soon to be 42 .... well basically the wrong side of 40 lol

The goalie seemed to be bothered by me doing this sometimes and not all the time I do it. I can't figure out what his boggle is about it so I will ask him again soon and work something out at least.

Thanks for the advice about having the stick firmly in hand and not loosely but those are beginner tips and I'm not a novice but thanks anyway for taking the time to answer.

I really hoping for goaltenders who know how to play well to give some advice on this or Dmen who have played D for some time. I think goalie input would be the best perhaps. I am starting have this feeling like some goalies would be bothered by my doing this and some would not. I really do not feel like I am doing something tremendously horrible but am not completely sure. i have never played goal in other words and do not have the perspective on this of that.

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03-11-2010, 03:23 PM
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think of it this way, there should not be anyone between you and your goalie to redirect it. (otherwise your out of position) so if it gets to you clean, let him make the save. That being said I am assuming you mean when play is established in your zone the other team has good posession and are getting a shot you would then knock it down. I would personally only block shots with my body let the goalie have it otherwise. now if I am on someone in a stick on stick situation and they get a shot off, that's something he needs to be ready for.
JMHO though. I'm old too but an old dman so who knows, right?


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03-11-2010, 03:32 PM
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I'm a goalie and i'll give my point of view:

When I see a shot, i don't want it ever to be deflected at all. Once the shot is off his stick, i'm setting up for where the puck is going. Now granted you may be able to knock it down, but if you change the flight, then it really hurts the goaltender. I'm set up for that shot already, that change makes me change how i'm set up, in less time.

I would prefer my defenseman just keep their sticks on the ice, and leave anything in the air for me to save. If you can block it with your body, then i'd be happy, but I don't wanna see many sticks traveling in the path of the puck, because 1 re-direct, whether on purpose or accident can be an easy goal.

That's just my feelings. Other goalies might feel different. I understand your trying to help the goalie and as a goalie, i appreciate it, but sometimes, it's better to just let the shot go, if in the air.

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03-11-2010, 03:59 PM
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Defenseman's job is to prevent shots from being taken or to give up the worst shot possible. Listen to the goalies and don't deflect pucks on purpose especially if they are in the air. If it's a shot on the ice and you can take it like a pass that's something else. Or if you can block a shot as it's being taken that's okay. Even if you block the initial shot you may deflect it someplace that will handcuff the goalie on a rebound from you. Or you may deflect it back in the opposite direction your goalie is moving and he gets hurt changing direction to get it.
If a shot is coming from the point and you are standing there waiting to block it, who is covering your man in front of the net? If I'm doing my job right I have my man shoved so far out of the slot or holding him on the ground that I can't block shots. If a shot comes from the point and I don't have anyone to cover I will step out of the way and put myself 90 degrees to the goalie so I am in a position to clear a rebound to the corner. If your goalie lets in 50 footers with nobody in the way........get a new goalie.

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03-11-2010, 04:42 PM
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Rob Brown
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If I'm close to the shooter and I feel like I can get a good amount of stick on it or stop it completely I'll do so, but if I'm in front of the net covering my man and a shot comes from the wing or the point I won't try and tip it.

Once I WAS in front of the net, and a high shot came from the point. It was probably shoulder-neck height for me and I was 6'3 at the time (6'4 now), so it was definitely going to go over the net. Instead of moving I caught it in mid air. Needless to say, it hurt like hell and my hand hurt for a few days after that.

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03-11-2010, 05:21 PM
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Guys I know usually only block with the body and keep the sticks down. They might intercept it if it's a weak wrister on the ice, but anything above that unless they can do a body block they let the goalie do his or her job.

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03-11-2010, 06:01 PM
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As a goalie, I love to see the shot. Even if the shot is taken from a relatively far away position, having a defencemen's stick or body in the way is a big detriment to me. Many goalies learn to predict where a shot is going and how fast it will be, based on the actions of the shooter. If the goalie can't clearly see the shooter, it's that much harder to make the save. This also applies to deflections. If I see the shot clearly, I have a good idea of where the puck is going. If you deflect the puck -- whether it's 3 feet or 30 feet away -- you've messed me up. In both cases, if I don't know where the puck is going, I'm relying more on reflexes than I'd like to.

I've let my teammates know my preference -- give me a clear line of sight to the shooter. It was a slow learning process, but nowadays most of them let me see the shot. Instead of trying to deflect it, they drive the shooter to the outside and/or take away the puck carrier's passing lanes.

Every goalie has their preferences, and hockey is a team game. At the least, listen to the goalie and try and make some compromises. You don't have to drop everything and mindlessly do what he says, but give some consideration to it.

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Old
03-11-2010, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyfan68 View Post
I really hoping for goaltenders who know how to play well to give some advice on this or Dmen who have played D for some time. I think goalie input would be the best perhaps. I am starting have this feeling like some goalies would be bothered by my doing this and some would not. I really do not feel like I am doing something tremendously horrible but am not completely sure. i have never played goal in other words and do not have the perspective on this of that.
Speaking as a goalie...

If you know what you are doing, it's fine. The problem is that most adult league defensemen (1) think that they know what they're doing, and (2) don't know what they're doing.

If you're hustling and working hard in our zone, I won't say a word about you deflecting shots on goal (unless you ask about it). You're messing with my timing somewhat, but whatever. The first time you turn an easy save into a shot that goes over my shoulder into the net, you and I will both know what happened.

And if you're really putting 2 out of every 14 deflection attempts into your own net (while almost certainly screening your goaltender), then you don't know what you're doing. Sorry. I'm not going to sugarcoat it. Let the goalie do their job.


Last edited by Trebek: 03-11-2010 at 07:04 PM.
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Old
03-11-2010, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyfan68 View Post
I am actually quite good at it but our goalie hates it when I do it even though more often than not trouble doesn't result from it.

Obviously it isn't an exact science and it can backfire but it seems like I do what I want with it more often than not.
And more often than not, a decent goaltender will make the save anyway.

Goaltenders aren't 50/50 or 60/40 on slapshots from the point. A good save percentage for a goaltender in the rec leagues here tends to be in the .850-.900 range. And that's a deceptive figure anyway because different shot types tend to lower/raise that percentage. Breakaways are lower percentage saves for goalies, while slapshots from a distance (even with the screen/redirection possiblity) are still generally higher than any shot from within 10 feet. So for shots from the point (even through a screen), many good goaltenders will still make that save 90-95% of the time.

Are you really better than a 90-95% success at cleanly picking slapshots out of the air?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyfan68 View Post
I think I have redirected 2 goals in our own net in about 6 months and probably saved a dozen imho.
12 + 2 = 14 ~~~ 12 / 14 = .857

Alright, so you have an .857 save percentage. If your numbers are accurate that's actually a pretty incredibly high save percentage for just knocking pucks out of the air with your stick.....but it's still not as high as the goaltender's save percentage on that shot will be.

However, I am a little skeptical of your numbers. You say you "saved" 12 goals and "redirected in" only 2. Okay, I'll buy that.....but I think you're also being selective about your "stats" and don't think you're looking at the entire picture here:

-What about the pucks that you knocked out of the air that another opposing forward picked up and scored on because the goalie is out of position and scrambling from trying to make the initial save or couldn't find the puck after your tip?
-What about the pucks you tipped which prevented the goalie from catching them cleanly for a stoppage and the continuing sequence resulted in a goal?
-What about the additional screen that your body/stick in his line of sight adds to the difficulty of the initial shot? What about all the pucks you tried to tip but missed on, or were going to tip but then changed your mind at the last moment, and your resulting stick-waving in the goalie's line of sight caused him to miss it entirely on the initial shot or give up a bad rebound for a goal?
-What about all the opposing forwards in the slot and near the crease who are screening/distracting the goalie or are in prime position for a tip or open rebound whom you are leaving wide open and uncovered while you try to block it?

See, your actions have many unintended consequences that I don't think you fully grasp or take into account. And the worst part of all, if/when you make that mistake, you're not the one that is ultimately responsible for it.

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03-11-2010, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OprtnShtdwn View Post
I'm a goalie and i'll give my point of view:

When I see a shot, i don't want it ever to be deflected at all. Once the shot is off his stick, i'm setting up for where the puck is going. Now granted you may be able to knock it down, but if you change the flight, then it really hurts the goaltender. I'm set up for that shot already, that change makes me change how i'm set up, in less time.

I would prefer my defenseman just keep their sticks on the ice, and leave anything in the air for me to save. If you can block it with your body, then i'd be happy, but I don't wanna see many sticks traveling in the path of the puck, because 1 re-direct, whether on purpose or accident can be an easy goal.

That's just my feelings. Other goalies might feel different. I understand your trying to help the goalie and as a goalie, i appreciate it, but sometimes, it's better to just let the shot go, if in the air.
This is how I think almost every goalie would feel. It is too risky to try and block the shot with your stick. I play center, but I would only block shots with my stick if I was really close to the D, that way if it deflects it is likely going out of the rink.

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03-12-2010, 01:36 AM
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Hockeyfan68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OprtnShtdwn View Post
I'm a goalie and i'll give my point of view:

When I see a shot, i don't want it ever to be deflected at all. Once the shot is off his stick, i'm setting up for where the puck is going. Now granted you may be able to knock it down, but if you change the flight, then it really hurts the goaltender. I'm set up for that shot already, that change makes me change how i'm set up, in less time.

I would prefer my defenseman just keep their sticks on the ice, and leave anything in the air for me to save. If you can block it with your body, then i'd be happy, but I don't wanna see many sticks traveling in the path of the puck, because 1 re-direct, whether on purpose or accident can be an easy goal.

That's just my feelings. Other goalies might feel different. I understand your trying to help the goalie and as a goalie, i appreciate it, but sometimes, it's better to just let the shot go, if in the air.
Well this is what I was looking for ... I have this need to feel like I am protecting the goal when I play. I just react to a shot and I think if I start NOT doing that more and let the guy play it he will be happier.

The more I think of it from your point of view I am thinking of times where I knocked a puck down causing him to scramble more with his pad because I knocked it down in front of him. This would cause him more energy to be spent as well as possibly pulling a muscle for nothing because he had to correct his angle in a hurry while in the middle of getting set for the shot.

I understand this.

My main gig my whole life was a defensive forward killing penalties, banging, and knocking pucks down stealing passes etc.

I even have tipped shots while playing D using the high part of the shaft up by the hands which is hard to do and tipped them right over the net into the glass or mesh. I mean i really have great eye hand coordination and it helped when i played wing because i often played the opposite wing and would knock down passes up from the D that were off the ice while in stride on my backhand which is hard to do for most people.

Well anyway thanks for the advice and comments. I'll try the less is more approach and try not to feel like I have to protect the goal because my job is to protect the goalie as it HIS job is to pretect the goal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SJGoalie32 View Post
And more often than not, a decent goaltender will make the save anyway.

Goaltenders aren't 50/50 or 60/40 on slapshots from the point. A good save percentage for a goaltender in the rec leagues here tends to be in the .850-.900 range. And that's a deceptive figure anyway because different shot types tend to lower/raise that percentage. Breakaways are lower percentage saves for goalies, while slapshots from a distance (even with the screen/redirection possiblity) are still generally higher than any shot from within 10 feet. So for shots from the point (even through a screen), many good goaltenders will still make that save 90-95% of the time.

Are you really better than a 90-95% success at cleanly picking slapshots out of the air?



12 + 2 = 14 ~~~ 12 / 14 = .857

Alright, so you have an .857 save percentage. If your numbers are accurate that's actually a pretty incredibly high save percentage for just knocking pucks out of the air with your stick.....but it's still not as high as the goaltender's save percentage on that shot will be.

However, I am a little skeptical of your numbers. You say you "saved" 12 goals and "redirected in" only 2. Okay, I'll buy that.....but I think you're also being selective about your "stats" and don't think you're looking at the entire picture here:

-What about the pucks that you knocked out of the air that another opposing forward picked up and scored on because the goalie is out of position and scrambling from trying to make the initial save or couldn't find the puck after your tip?
-What about the pucks you tipped which prevented the goalie from catching them cleanly for a stoppage and the continuing sequence resulted in a goal?
-What about the additional screen that your body/stick in his line of sight adds to the difficulty of the initial shot? What about all the pucks you tried to tip but missed on, or were going to tip but then changed your mind at the last moment, and your resulting stick-waving in the goalie's line of sight caused him to miss it entirely on the initial shot or give up a bad rebound for a goal?
-What about all the opposing forwards in the slot and near the crease who are screening/distracting the goalie or are in prime position for a tip or open rebound whom you are leaving wide open and uncovered while you try to block it?

See, your actions have many unintended consequences that I don't think you fully grasp or take into account. And the worst part of all, if/when you make that mistake, you're not the one that is ultimately responsible for it.
Some points well made ... at least I leave the easy shots alone and let him grab them. I seem to be more active on knocking down shots or tipping them when we are under siege and desperate and even then i should leave some alone.

I can think of a goal because I knocked down a shot and a guy put it in so thanks for bringing that up. That happened from knocking a puck down and it sat dead by some act of hockey God weirdness because it did not bounce and flutter to the wayside like it should have and I got burned. So yeah I get the point you made.


Last edited by Hockeyfan68: 03-12-2010 at 01:51 AM.
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