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Kevin Lowe on the Jason Gregor Show

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Old
03-12-2010, 01:29 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by Oil Gauge View Post
The Khabibulin situation is completely different than the Whitney one. Khabibulin didn't have an injury when they signed him.

I think i read that Whitney had the same problem on his other foot and had surgery which was completely successful, so whats to make you think that this foot will be any different.

Lets not over react.
Who's over-reacting? I think my questions are fair. Not too long ago (a few days) people were pontificating how there was no problem at all, there was no injury etc... Not saying that you were of this mind but several were.

Now we have moved on to the surgery was successful the first time why wouldnt it be now? Well, if he decides or is forced to get the surgery, it very well may go just as it did the first time or it could be quite different. Surgery is not a 100% guarantee that he will be fully healthy afterwards.

Asking why a trade would be made for such a player is fair and should be asked.

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03-12-2010, 01:56 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Asking why a trade would be made for such a player is fair and should be asked.
Once again, we find ourselves in this situation: he either knew and made the trade anyway, or he never asked. Neither is good.

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Old
03-12-2010, 02:08 PM
  #203
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Just to clariy

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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Horcoff has an NTC for two more seasons. He does not have an NMC.

Even if he did, that would be OK, because we'll keep him around for 2 more years minimum anyway, he'll still be useful in sheltering some of the kids and being the go-to checking center. There's the off chance he may have a bounce back year at some point and actually become tradable.

If not, when we need the money to resign Hall/Seguin/etc. down the line, then you send him to the AHL. Unlike a buy-out this clears the full cap hit right off the cap .... $5.5 mill in full cap savings with no penalty.

Horcoff has a NO Movement clause and it was for the first FOUR years of his deal, so he has three years left on it. THey can't waive him, trade him or loan him to the ECHL without his consent.

In the fifth year, the Oilers can submit a request to trade him prior to start of the season, and then he has to submit a list of 10 teams that he would agree to go to and they can deal him to one of those ten after July 1st 2013.

In the 6th an final year, 2014/2015 he can be traded, moved or loaned to any team the Oilers choose.

And yes if he is sent to the minors in the final season he doesn't count against the cap, but the team would have to pay him $3 million to play in the AHL.

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Old
03-12-2010, 02:12 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
They probably lost money the last two years.
I'll dig up the journal article I was looking at when making the comment. (In reference to last season) It stated that while they made less money than the previous year they were still among the top 10 teams in the league for straight-up profit, and I believe that should probably still hold true if the games are still "selling out."

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Old
03-12-2010, 02:18 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post
Once again, we find ourselves in this situation: he either knew and made the trade anyway, or he never asked. Neither is good.
Why is Neither good? Whitney has been fantastic for us and IMO a better fit than Visnovsky. Not to mention he has a cheaper contract and is 6 years younger...

Please tell me what I'm missing here.

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Old
03-12-2010, 02:20 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Jason Gregor View Post
Horcoff has a NO Movement clause and it was for the first FOUR years of his deal, so he has three years left on it. THey can't waive him, trade him or loan him to the ECHL without his consent.

In the fifth year, the Oilers can submit a request to trade him prior to start of the season, and then he has to submit a list of 10 teams that he would agree to go to and they can deal him to one of those ten after July 1st 2013.

In the 6th an final year, 2014/2015 he can be traded, moved or loaned to any team the Oilers choose.

And yes if he is sent to the minors in the final season he doesn't count against the cap, but the team would have to pay him $3 million to play in the AHL.
haha where's the smiley for :puke:

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Old
03-12-2010, 02:34 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oiLowe View Post
Why is Neither good? Whitney has been fantastic for us and IMO a better fit than Visnovsky. Not to mention he has a cheaper contract and is 6 years younger...

Please tell me what I'm missing here.
Well, lets put it this way, you have a corvette that is getting a little older and up there in miles, but it still runs great. Youve had some expensive repairs in the last year, so you are looking to get a newer model that is a little less costly.

So you find a nice, slightly used Mustang at the car lot, but you do an inspection and they tell you that there has been trouble with the engine that was fixed a couple of years ago and that the transmission could be ready to go. You decide to buy the car anyway instead of waiting a few months, to find a Mustang that is mechanically sound.

Or you forego the inspection, buy the car, and find out it is going to need a new transmission in the next couple of months.

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Old
03-12-2010, 02:36 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post
Once again, we find ourselves in this situation: he either knew and made the trade anyway, or he never asked. Neither is good.
The first one is dependent on another variable: is it a big problem? The way it looks right now for the org: probably not.

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Old
03-12-2010, 02:37 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by oiLowe View Post
Why is Neither good? Whitney has been fantastic for us and IMO a better fit than Visnovsky. Not to mention he has a cheaper contract and is 6 years younger...

Please tell me what I'm missing here.
He's barely cheaper, and has a long term contract. He has a chronic foot condition that will need surgery (again). Since making his introduction riding on the back of the Penguins and their vaunted offence, he's pretty much been in decline since.

I don't know how you can say "he's been fantastic for us" because he's only been here for four games. I mean, holy crap. Even if we were to ignore the small sample size as you have, he's scored 0 points and taken 3 minor penalties.

I'm not impressed at all.

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Old
03-12-2010, 02:38 PM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishy Scales View Post
The first one is dependent on another variable: is it a big problem? The way it looks right now for the org: probably not.
I'd prefer we obtain players without chronic injury issues. But that's just me.

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03-12-2010, 02:40 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post
I'd prefer we obtain players without chronic injury issues. But that's just me.
It's not chronic if it can be removed with surgery. If Whitney has it in the offseason he may miss a couple of months at the start of next season.

And I can't really see a problem with that.

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Old
03-12-2010, 02:42 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Fishy Scales View Post
It's not chronic if it can be removed with surgery. If Whitney has it in the offseason he may miss a couple of months at the start of next season.

And I can't really see a problem with that.
And if he has it in the offseason he might miss all of next year. Or more.

There is not a trivial amount of risk involved.

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Old
03-12-2010, 02:44 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Jason Gregor View Post
Horcoff has a NO Movement clause and it was for the first FOUR years of his deal, so he has three years left on it. THey can't waive him, trade him or loan him to the ECHL without his consent.

In the fifth year, the Oilers can submit a request to trade him prior to start of the season, and then he has to submit a list of 10 teams that he would agree to go to and they can deal him to one of those ten after July 1st 2013.

In the 6th an final year, 2014/2015 he can be traded, moved or loaned to any team the Oilers choose.

And yes if he is sent to the minors in the final season he doesn't count against the cap, but the team would have to pay him $3 million to play in the AHL.



My god was this ever a retarded deal by Lowe.

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Old
03-12-2010, 02:45 PM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Well, lets put it this way, you have a corvette that is getting a little older and up there in miles, but it still runs great. Youve had some expensive repairs in the last year, so you are looking to get a newer model that is a little less costly.

So you find a nice, slightly used Mustang at the car lot, but you do an inspection and they tell you that there has been trouble with the engine that was fixed a couple of years ago and that the transmission could be ready to go. You decide to buy the car anyway instead of waiting a few months, to find a Mustang that is mechanically sound.

Or you forego the inspection, buy the car, and find out it is going to need a new transmission in the next couple of months.
haha the difference is that mustang will never turn into a corvette.

Whitney could be and I would argue has been better than Visnovsky.

The injury risk is one we were obviously willing to take, time will tell if that was a good or bad decision.

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Old
03-12-2010, 02:47 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post
And if he has it in the offseason he might miss all of next year. Or more.

There is not a trivial amount of risk involved.
And what's the risk of that happening?

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Old
03-12-2010, 02:49 PM
  #216
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And what's the risk of that happening?
There was a study from a medical journal in the old foot thread posted by AP. It details the recovery rates, success rates and time of recovery in there.

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Old
03-12-2010, 02:56 PM
  #217
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With a healthy Hemsky and Khabibulin, and the addition of a talent like Hall or Seguin (including possibly Eberle), I really don't think we're going to have a great shot at the top three next year.
I would make a wager that Khabibulin plays < 40 games next year. It's a combination of the odds that (a) he gets injured and (b) he plays like crap and JDD has to split the games with him.

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03-12-2010, 03:00 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post
He's barely cheaper, and has a long term contract. He has a chronic foot condition that will need surgery (again). Since making his introduction riding on the back of the Penguins and their vaunted offence, he's pretty much been in decline since.

I don't know how you can say "he's been fantastic for us" because he's only been here for four games. I mean, holy crap. Even if we were to ignore the small sample size as you have, he's scored 0 points and taken 3 minor penalties.

I'm not impressed at all.
If you can't see that Whitney has helped this team you aren't paying attention.

His condition is NOT chronic and it will be surgery on his other foot this time. So, no not (again) but you already knew that.

I, unfortunately, don't have the luxury of watching most Anaheim games. As a result my opinion on Whitney can only be formed on the admittedly small sample size. If he reverts back to the play some Anaheim fans believe he will, I'll be the first to criticise him but in his short time here, he's been great.

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Old
03-12-2010, 03:06 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by oiLowe View Post
If you can't see that Whitney has helped this team you aren't paying attention.
Then please enlighten me, oh attentive one.

Quote:
His condition is NOT chronic
Oh geez. Not that again.

Quote:
and it will be surgery on his other foot this time. So, no not (again) but you already knew that.
So what? It's on his other foot therefore everything's just peachy?

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03-12-2010, 03:08 PM
  #220
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There was a study from a medical journal in the old foot thread posted by AP. It details the recovery rates, success rates and time of recovery in there.
But we already know that he only missed 33 games when the other foot was operated on.

Why would he suddenly miss ten months?

And that was an operation in early August. If he had it done at the end of the season, he may not miss any time at all.

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03-12-2010, 03:09 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post
So what? It's on his other foot therefore everything's just peachy?
You're poking at that, but I find it pretty significant. He had surgery on one foot and it's good. That means the other foot is likely to get good too after surgery, since his body responded well the first time.

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03-12-2010, 03:13 PM
  #222
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Then please enlighten me, oh attentive one.



Oh geez. Not that again.



So what? It's on his other foot therefore everything's just peachy?
He's been good. Feel free to disagree, but you will be wrong.

His other foot responded fine. Why would this one be any different?

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Old
03-12-2010, 03:19 PM
  #223
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I'm not going to go out of my way to worry about this...all i know is that he has been solid since coming here and I'm hoping that will be the case for the rest of his contract...it is obviously more likely that the surgery will be fine considering how the other foot reacted to the same type of procedure...obviously there is a risk associated with any surgery but I'm just gonna hope for the best

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Old
03-12-2010, 03:27 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Fishy Scales View Post
You're poking at that, but I find it pretty significant. He had surgery on one foot and it's good. That means the other foot is likely to get good too after surgery, since his body responded well the first time.
What if it doesn't?

What if his recovery takes much longer than expected?

Thus my point about the risk. Business is all about managing risk and not taking on risk unnecessarily.

Any way you look at it, the return we got for Visnovsky is deficient in every way except for the age of the player. Which is damning.

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03-12-2010, 03:27 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by oiLowe View Post
He's been good. Feel free to disagree, but you will be wrong.

His other foot responded fine. Why would this one be any different?
Why should it be the same?

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