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How would you feel about bringing zherdev back next year?

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Old
03-10-2010, 07:09 PM
  #76
haohmaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Assuming Slats is still here, the only way it happens is if Zherdev fires his agent and blames it on him. If that were to happen, I would be thrilled.

I love how everyone has retroactive blinders on as regards Zherdev. To be clear:

1) He was the team's leading scorer for the vast majority of the season and was on pace for 65-70 points before his famous year-end slump. Yet, he was villified more than almost any other forward on the team. Ridiculous. Typical example of Rangers fans' constant focus on the last game.
Which doesn't change the fact that he played some games and was invisible in many others. I'll give you the 1st half of the season, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
2) He was invisible in the playoffs. Again, why does he get publicly burned at the stake while others take a seeming free pass? You know what, I agree he did disappear - he failed to show up in his first ever playoffs. Meanwhile almost every other forward (most of them in at LEAST their second playoff campaign, mind you) failed to show up too. So why exactly are we picking on Nik out of about 10 possible scapegoats?"
The Rangers played 89 games last season. In his last 20 games, including the playoffs, Nik registered ONE ASSIST. TOTAL. Any of your other 10 scapegoats disappear, to that degree, when it mattered most? The stretch drive and 7 playoff games? Incidentally, that series ended up being decided by a single goal.

And, you know what? It doesn't even piss me off that much that Zherdev lost his game and struggled down the stretch - it's that he, and his agent, thought that he was entitled to 4.5 million/season after pulling that act and acting like the Rangers 3.25 offer was insulting.

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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
3) On that PO disappearance - I distinctly remember him whiffing on 3 or 4 goalmouth opportunities. On the face of it, I imagine several of you will say that proves how worthless he was. I beg to disagree - it shows that he was STILL getting to great scoring position and was still making plays, but was gripping his stick too tight in what was, as I mentioned above, his first PO series. That to me is a player who you want to work with and help grow, not one you throw away.
20 consecutive games and 1 assist tell me that you're really, really reaching for something that isn't there.

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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
4) The reinventing of the offseason salary dispute/arbitration hearing/UFA period needs to stop. The Rangers had spent his money prior to the hearing. Others have already pointed out that the idea that he was spurned by other teams is patently false - there were precious few UFA dollars left by the time the Rangers walked away from him. However, I want to point out another fact that gets conveniently overlooked: when the Rangers offered him $3.25MM and he came back, he and his agent were on record saying they wanted to negotiate. They viewed it, as most players do (Dubi was another example on the same team in the same offseason), as the start of a negotiating process. However, the Rangers chose to draw a line in the sand at their initial offer and then actually lower it during the arbitration process. Had Glen (whom everyone loves to castigate for all his other UFA maneuvers and yet somehow feel was completely justified in this petty, atypical move) simply engaged and raised his offer a couple of hundred thou, we might actually have a legit secondary scoring threat and be legitimately in the playoffs right now.
They drew the line because the offer was more than fair, they had little cap space, and he probably didn't have much support from Tortorella.

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Old
03-10-2010, 07:10 PM
  #77
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Old
03-10-2010, 07:27 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Garfinkel1 View Post
Yes. He's a valuable asset. A real second line player with the potential to be so much more. at 3m/yr sign me up!

He wouldnt sign for that last offseason, what makes you think he changed his mind?

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Old
03-10-2010, 07:29 PM
  #79
Panfork
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Losing Zherdev, Dawes, and Mara were all terrible decisions in my opinion.

Bring them all back.

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03-10-2010, 07:36 PM
  #80
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I love the poeple think if you took jokinen out and replaced him with zherdev(since kotalik and higgins pretty much took up zherdev on the roster)this team would still be exactly where it is now....one guy alone especially Zherdev isnt going to make this team any better what so ever....BIG BIG pass on him

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Old
03-10-2010, 07:42 PM
  #81
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No need to repeat mistakes. Let someone else overpay for Z's services.

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Old
03-10-2010, 08:21 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Which doesn't change the fact that he played some games and was invisible in many others. I'll give you the 1st half of the season, though.
Actually, you'd have to give me 76 games or 92.7% of the season - given that his huge, humongous nosedive against which every other slump in history pales, lasted 6 regular season games, during which he was 0-1-1.

And then, yes, he whiffed in the POs. That is understood. It's the only reason we're having this conversation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
The Rangers played 89 games last season. In his last 20 games, including the playoffs, Nik registered ONE ASSIST. TOTAL. Any of your other 10 scapegoats disappear, to that degree, when it mattered most? The stretch drive and 7 playoff games? Incidentally, that series ended up being decided by a single goal.
Nooooooo, actually, wrong. In his last 13 games, as I stated above, he only had one assist. But in the previous 7 games before that, he went 4-2-6, which is a lot better than the typical 7-game run from anyone we see on the current team (EDIT: other than Gabby of course). But feel free to twist the math to suit your purposes.

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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
And, you know what? It doesn't even piss me off that much that Zherdev lost his game and struggled down the stretch - it's that he, and his agent, thought that he was entitled to 4.5 million/season after pulling that act and acting like the Rangers 3.25 offer was insulting.
Amazing. You break down my previous post point for point, but in making this withering comeback, you completely ignore the point I made at length only two points later.

1) The Rangers offered $3.25MM, which Nik turned down and then went on record saying he wanted to negotiate. The Rangers instead didn't engage at ALL and drove straight to arbitration. Do you believe that every other player that didn't accept the first offer from the Rangers, who then went on to negotiate was a punk? That they ALL should have taken the first offer? Do you hold Dubi in the same contempt?

2) Speaking of arbitration, stop using the arbitration submission numbers as if they were the numbers being discussed all along. Arbitration is an established process that everyone in hockey understands - the arbitrator is 99% going to split the difference between the two submissions, so the player goes as high as he can reasonably justify and the team goes as low as possible (which is why the Rangers lowered their offer to $3.1MM in the process). The $4.5MM number that Zherdev's camp submitted in the arbitration process has NO BEARING ON WHAT HE MIGHT HAVE BEEN WILLING TO ACCEPT DURING NORMAL NEGOTIATIONS.

3) Ignoring all of the above (which is fallacious reasoning, but since so many seem to want to do it...), the arbitrator's award was $3.9MM. So, all the shenanigans previous to the hearing aside, you could have had him for that amount - you didn't have to pay $4.5MM.

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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
20 consecutive games and 1 assist tell me that you're really, really reaching for something that isn't there.
1) Again, your math is wrong.

2) Riiiiight, and yet all the other forwards who did manage to scrape together one or two measly points and spent the rest of the series skating into the zone peeling into the corner before turning the puck over to the Caps were SO much better. I wasn't making the point that he did something wonderful, I was making the point that he was still one of their best players - and the fact that he choked in his FIRST playoff series was one of the reasons they lost. But it's also proof of how valuable he was to the team. And the fact that he still had the skill to be a difference maker once he stopped trying to strangle his hockey stick into sawdust.

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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
They drew the line because the offer was more than fair, they had little cap space,
Really? 'Cause Kotalik's contract plus Lisin's (or Voros's or Brahsear's) would have been MORE than enough to get him signed up for at least one year.

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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
and he probably didn't have much support from Tortorella.
Entirely possible. But my point all along has been that the Rangers' management screwed the pooch on this one. Whether it was primarily in the person of Slats (as I suspect), Torts or a combination of the both... it was still stupid.


Last edited by BrooklynRangersFan: 03-10-2010 at 11:26 PM.
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Old
03-11-2010, 06:05 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
...and wasn't he wonderful in the playoffs?

Overpaid. Under-achieving. Bring him back, that's what you get.
Yeah, judge a player on one playoff series, great way to evaluate talent.

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Old
03-11-2010, 06:08 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Assuming Slats is still here, the only way it happens is if Zherdev fires his agent and blames it on him. If that were to happen, I would be thrilled.

I love how everyone has retroactive blinders on as regards Zherdev. To be clear:

1) He was the team's leading scorer for the vast majority of the season and was on pace for 65-70 points before his famous year-end slump. Yet, he was villified more than almost any other forward on the team. Ridiculous. Typical example of Rangers fans' constant focus on the last game.

2) He was invisible in the playoffs. Again, why does he get publicly burned at the stake while others take a seeming free pass? You know what, I agree he did disappear - he failed to show up in his first ever playoffs. Meanwhile almost every other forward (most of them in at LEAST their second playoff campaign, mind you) failed to show up too. So why exactly are we picking on Nik out of about 10 possible scapegoats?"

3) On that PO disappearance - I distinctly remember him whiffing on 3 or 4 goalmouth opportunities. On the face of it, I imagine several of you will say that proves how worthless he was. I beg to disagree - it shows that he was STILL getting to great scoring position and was still making plays, but was gripping his stick too tight in what was, as I mentioned above, his first PO series. That to me is a player who you want to work with and help grow, not one you throw away.

4) The reinventing of the offseason salary dispute/arbitration hearing/UFA period needs to stop. The Rangers had spent his money prior to the hearing. Others have already pointed out that the idea that he was spurned by other teams is patently false - there were precious few UFA dollars left by the time the Rangers walked away from him. However, I want to point out another fact that gets conveniently overlooked: when the Rangers offered him $3.25MM and he came back, he and his agent were on record saying they wanted to negotiate. They viewed it, as most players do (Dubi was another example on the same team in the same offseason), as the start of a negotiating process. However, the Rangers chose to draw a line in the sand at their initial offer and then actually lower it during the arbitration process. Had Glen (whom everyone loves to castigate for all his other UFA maneuvers and yet somehow feel was completely justified in this petty, atypical move) simply engaged and raised his offer a couple of hundred thou, we might actually have a legit secondary scoring threat and be legitimately in the playoffs right now.

I just don't understand the hate. I really don't.
Good points, especially #3. I agree that it seemed he was really pressing. I don't think the guy didn't care or didn't want to succeed, quite the opposite actually.

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Old
03-11-2010, 06:12 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panfork View Post
Losing Zherdev, Dawes, and Mara were all terrible decisions in my opinion.

Bring them all back.
Dawes is another fringe 2nd liner that might top 30 goals and isn't defensively strong enough to fit in on an ideal 3rd line. I miss Mara's toughness, but man does he get overrated here.

Z was the secondary scoring we let get away. So was Antropov while we're on the discussion. Sather chose the stupidest players to get cheap with, and then went out and spent money on a guy like Kotalik. You've gotta figure if he just stayed away from Kotalik and went with Antropov or Zherdev, our offense would be much more effective. I would've loved to see Antropov get a shot with Gaborik, especially if Dubinsky was on that line — we'd control the puck everytime they were on the ice.

If our first line was Prospal-Christensen-Gaborik and our second line had Dubinsky, Zherdev, and either Anisimov, Drury, Jokinen, etc. our top 6 would come close to looking what a top 6 should actually look like, and it'd also allow players like Sean Avery and Ryan Callahan to play in a roll more suitable for them.


I mean, I hate the what if game, but you want to talk about Sather mess-ups and the value of Zherdev, just look at how abysmal our offense is. Even when they score 3 or 4 goals, they just don't control the puck well in the offensive zone and eat up clock.

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Old
03-11-2010, 07:45 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Assuming Slats is still here, the only way it happens is if Zherdev fires his agent and blames it on him. If that were to happen, I would be thrilled.

I love how everyone has retroactive blinders on as regards Zherdev. To be clear:
Why does he get blamed? Because he took all those negatives and went to Sather and said I want a raise, we're going to arbitration and when I win I want even more than what they award me. He thought that floating everywhere except for the offensive zone some how entitled him to $4.25m. We have enough mercenaries. We need to get rid of the rest, not add him back to the mix.

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Old
03-11-2010, 07:56 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by HenrikTheKing30 View Post
What does this team lack? Secondary scoring. What does Zherdev bring? Secondary scoring. Bottom line: would it hurt the team to bring him on? Probably not. If the price is right ($2.5-3 mil/year) I wouldn't mind bringing him back.
The team lacks primary scoring.

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Old
03-11-2010, 10:32 AM
  #88
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I want Kovalchuk at LW.

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Old
03-11-2010, 10:40 AM
  #89
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Yeah, judge a player on one playoff series, great way to evaluate talent.
I refuse to believe this is a serious post. I'm going to give you much more credit than this.

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Old
03-11-2010, 11:19 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panfork View Post
Losing Zherdev, Dawes, and Mara were all terrible decisions in my opinion.

Bring them all back.
Dawes, meh. He looks like--at most--a 20 goal guy, and even then he needs to be playing with legitimate top 6 players to perform. I think he'd be pretty redundant on our team.

Mara and Zherdev I would like to have back though. Assuming the price is right, which for us, it never is.

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03-12-2010, 04:33 PM
  #91
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not even if we were just paying him a puck a week

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Old
03-12-2010, 04:42 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Dawes, meh. He looks like--at most--a 20 goal guy, and even then he needs to be playing with legitimate top 6 players to perform. I think he'd be pretty redundant on our team.

Mara and Zherdev I would like to have back though. Assuming the price is right, which for us, it never is.
And this is why I don't get all excited about our prospects. Lots of posters here were very hi on Dawes and were sure he would turn into a 30 goal scorer for us.

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Old
03-12-2010, 05:15 PM
  #93
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how long is hossa contract in the khl?

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03-12-2010, 05:25 PM
  #94
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not even if we were just paying him a puck a week
Indeed. We certainly have plenty of skilled forwards on this team who can score and make plays.

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Old
03-12-2010, 05:33 PM
  #95
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Forget about Zherdev. If you want to think about the past, consider how great it would be to have Tyutin instead of Redden + that extra cap space for someone else who is actually worthwhile.

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03-12-2010, 06:36 PM
  #96
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I would take zherdev back if he signed a 2 yr 4 million contract.

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Old
03-12-2010, 07:18 PM
  #97
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Screw Zherdev, I miss Tyutin.

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Old
03-12-2010, 07:21 PM
  #98
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i'd take 60+ points for 3.5mill. if he plays with gabby i can see him getting 70+

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Old
03-12-2010, 07:22 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Staal18 View Post
Forget about Zherdev. If you want to think about the past, consider how great it would be to have Tyutin instead of Redden + that extra cap space for someone else who is actually worthwhile.
The thread isn't about undoing trades and signings. It's about bringing a guy back...you know, something that could actually happen.

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03-12-2010, 07:25 PM
  #100
Panfork
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Dawes, meh. He looks like--at most--a 20 goal guy, and even then he needs to be playing with legitimate top 6 players to perform. I think he'd be pretty redundant on our team.

Mara and Zherdev I would like to have back though. Assuming the price is right, which for us, it never is.
Dawes gets paid scrub money though. I think he can be a 20ish goal scorer, and for less than $1M/year. But nooo, we needed Ales Kotalik for $9M over 3 years.

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