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How would you feel about bringing zherdev back next year?

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Old
03-12-2010, 06:28 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Panfork View Post
Dawes gets paid scrub money though. I think he can be a 20ish goal scorer, and for less than $1M/year. But nooo, we needed Ales Kotalik for $9M over 3 years.
Oh, yeah. Given a choice, I'd take Dawes over Kotalik any and every day of the week.

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03-12-2010, 09:38 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Actually, you'd have to give me 76 games or 92.7% of the season - given that his huge, humongous nosedive against which every other slump in history pales, lasted 6 regular season games, during which he was 0-1-1.

And then, yes, he whiffed in the POs. That is understood. It's the only reason we're having this conversation.



Nooooooo, actually, wrong. In his last 13 games, as I stated above, he only had one assist. But in the previous 7 games before that, he went 4-2-6, which is a lot better than the typical 7-game run from anyone we see on the current team (EDIT: other than Gabby of course). But feel free to twist the math to suit your purposes.



Amazing. You break down my previous post point for point, but in making this withering comeback, you completely ignore the point I made at length only two points later.

1) The Rangers offered $3.25MM, which Nik turned down and then went on record saying he wanted to negotiate. The Rangers instead didn't engage at ALL and drove straight to arbitration. Do you believe that every other player that didn't accept the first offer from the Rangers, who then went on to negotiate was a punk? That they ALL should have taken the first offer? Do you hold Dubi in the same contempt?

2) Speaking of arbitration, stop using the arbitration submission numbers as if they were the numbers being discussed all along. Arbitration is an established process that everyone in hockey understands - the arbitrator is 99% going to split the difference between the two submissions, so the player goes as high as he can reasonably justify and the team goes as low as possible (which is why the Rangers lowered their offer to $3.1MM in the process). The $4.5MM number that Zherdev's camp submitted in the arbitration process has NO BEARING ON WHAT HE MIGHT HAVE BEEN WILLING TO ACCEPT DURING NORMAL NEGOTIATIONS.

3) Ignoring all of the above (which is fallacious reasoning, but since so many seem to want to do it...), the arbitrator's award was $3.9MM. So, all the shenanigans previous to the hearing aside, you could have had him for that amount - you didn't have to pay $4.5MM.



1) Again, your math is wrong.

2) Riiiiight, and yet all the other forwards who did manage to scrape together one or two measly points and spent the rest of the series skating into the zone peeling into the corner before turning the puck over to the Caps were SO much better. I wasn't making the point that he did something wonderful, I was making the point that he was still one of their best players - and the fact that he choked in his FIRST playoff series was one of the reasons they lost. But it's also proof of how valuable he was to the team. And the fact that he still had the skill to be a difference maker once he stopped trying to strangle his hockey stick into sawdust.



Really? 'Cause Kotalik's contract plus Lisin's (or Voros's or Brahsear's) would have been MORE than enough to get him signed up for at least one year.



Entirely possible. But my point all along has been that the Rangers' management screwed the pooch on this one. Whether it was primarily in the person of Slats (as I suspect), Torts a combination of the both... it was still stupid.
Beautiful post BRF, but you're wasting your logic on some of this bunch. At this poing it's a matter of principle to punk Zherdev. Half these guys voted for Kotalik in a head-2-head poll.

No one is willing to look at the ATOI in the Cap series. I know, he earned less time, bllah, blah. Fact is he was 7th forward in terms of ATOI. which relates to 3rd line minutes. You can't produce from the bench. All the Dreary fan boys are crying that he is not producing because he was taken off the powerplay, banished to the 3rd line do not accept the argument that CaptainValium, Gomer, Cally, Dubi, Antropov, etc. etc were getting the ice time. THEY did not produce spit, yet Z is the one hung out to dry.

Also, trying to explain negotiation strategy to some of this group is a waste of time. They either can't or won't understand.

That there is anybody unwilling to spend money on a legit top 6 winger that led the team in scoring on a worse team than the current team as if it was coming out of their pockets should tell you all you need to know about the HATERS. They're just not thinking right.

Kotalik was signed and Lisin was acquired before Z's arbitration award. The Rangers (mis)management did not want him back. They spent is Cap slot before the hearing.

Z's nosedive at the end of the season pretty much coincided with the arrival of the Blow hard nutcase coach Torturella.

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Old
03-12-2010, 10:19 PM
  #103
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Nah I'm done with him. So is the leauge. No one wanted him & that's why he doesn't have a job at the NHL level.

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Old
03-13-2010, 09:48 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by The Thomas J. View Post
Nah I'm done with him. So is the leauge. No one wanted him & that's why he doesn't have a job at the NHL level.
Amazing. Do people even read the posts in the thread before posting?

As has been stated repeatedly, this is a false, self-serving, throw-away statement that sounds good if you're a Zherdev hater who doesn't actually want to analyze or debate the case.

Unfortunately, it doesn't survive even the most casual analysis of the facts. I'll explain it one more time:

Zherdev was Rangers property until August. In fact, because they went to arbitration, he wasn't even available to other teams as an RFA, much less as an UFA. In other words, he was OFF THE MARKET ENTIRELY until over a month into free agency. He didn't become available as an UFA until early August - at which point most teams with available budget had already spent it.

In other words, by the time he WAS signable most teams COULD NOT sign him. You therefore can NOT say that the fact that no other team signed him as evidence of some universal disregard for Nik. This point would ONLY be valid if he had been an UFA from day 1.

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Old
03-13-2010, 09:57 AM
  #105
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Zherdev was a dog who only played when he felt like it. I despise players like him. One more time watching him get knocked down and take an hour to get back up into the play and my TV would've been in pieces out in the backyard. Not to mention his zero defense and day dreaming long shifts.

Good riddance.

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03-13-2010, 10:50 AM
  #106
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I cannot believe how pig-headed and ignorant posters can be on these boards. Did Zherdev have flaws? Of course he did, however you wouldn't want him back!? Hoosier and Brooklyn, I'm with you guys. Zherdev has something this team desperately needs, skill. Regardless of everything else, you can count on him for at least 55 points on a crappy team (ala 08-09), he'd get at the very least 60-65 on a decent team with decent linemates.

If we get the opportunity and he wants to sign here for a fair price, go for it. I don't know how that's going to work with Torts here but that's another convo.

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Old
03-13-2010, 10:59 AM
  #107
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No Zherdev...think Playoff No Shows....

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Old
03-13-2010, 12:45 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Amazing. Do people even read the posts in the thread before posting?

As has been stated repeatedly, this is a false, self-serving, throw-away statement that sounds good if you're a Zherdev hater who doesn't actually want to analyze or debate the case.

Unfortunately, it doesn't survive even the most casual analysis of the facts. I'll explain it one more time:

Zherdev was Rangers property until August. In fact, because they went to arbitration, he wasn't even available to other teams as an RFA, much less as an UFA. In other words, he was OFF THE MARKET ENTIRELY until over a month into free agency. He didn't become available as an UFA until early August - at which point most teams with available budget had already spent it.

In other words, by the time he WAS signable most teams COULD NOT sign him. You therefore can NOT say that the fact that no other team signed him as evidence of some universal disregard for Nik. This point would ONLY be valid if he had been an UFA from day 1.

I don't have to read the thread, It wasn't that long ago & I remember the whole saga playing out. Bottom line is this, if some team really REALLY wanted him they would have traded a 2nd rounder for him.

I don't hate the guy, I saw enough of him playing to see that he isn't a top line player. That being said if you do some thread searchs you will find that I repeatdly stated that Z is the perfect 2nd line player that could compliment a superstar which than became Gaborik. It's not like I was completly against him being here. He had his chance the ship has sailed, esspecially since he & his Agent contacted Sather & asked if they he could sign for the orginal offer.

By the way, true ignorance is not allowing a person to express there opinion & having no respect for it at all. You throw alot of attitude around here when people don't agree with you & it's really annoying. you need to grow up alot.

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03-13-2010, 02:22 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by The Thomas J. View Post
I don't have to read the thread, It wasn't that long ago & I remember the whole saga playing out. Bottom line is this, if some team really REALLY wanted him they would have traded a 2nd rounder for him.

I don't hate the guy, I saw enough of him playing to see that he isn't a top line player. That being said if you do some thread searchs you will find that I repeatdly stated that Z is the perfect 2nd line player that could compliment a superstar which than became Gaborik. It's not like I was completly against him being here. He had his chance the ship has sailed, esspecially since he & his Agent contacted Sather & asked if they he could sign for the orginal offer.

By the way, true ignorance is not allowing a person to express there opinion & having no respect for it at all. You throw alot of attitude around here when people don't agree with you & it's really annoying. you need to grow up alot.
There are certain subjects that really get my goat. The purposeful ignorance as regards the Zherdev situation is one. If you'd engaged the actual points and provided a compelling counterargument I would be much more receptive. However, you went with:

Quote:
No one wanted him & that's why he doesn't have a job at the NHL level.
That's a respectful post from a mature adult? No, it's not - it's dismissive, sarcastic and ignores the facts, which you claim to have at your fingertips. (And by the way, as regards your follow up, this fictitious trade for a second rounder is a total straw man - you don't know who offered what, when.) Please practice what you preach. If you take the following attitude:

Quote:
I don't have to read the thread
You are categorically stating that you could give two ***** about everyone else's opinion. Consequently, you shouldn't be surprised when other posters are annoyed and it comes through in the tone of their posts.

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Old
03-13-2010, 02:33 PM
  #110
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to the original post, I'd say no, but it seems as though this season the Rangers' second line could've used a Zherdev on its wing. Maybe that means no Christenson and a centerman playing his natural position, but it seems to me that Zherdev would've thrived in a role behind Gaborik, as opposed to the expectation everyone had of him which he obviously couldn't fulfill here. The aforementioned is putting money aside, but of course Sather hasn't been too fiscally responsible and I think I would've rather him throw a little too much at Zherdev compared to some of the moves he's made.

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03-13-2010, 03:28 PM
  #111
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I for one loved Zherdev, and still do. No he's not Ryan Callahan on the back check, but not everyone is. He showed far more emotion than 3/4 of the scrubs on our team now, and he can be an absolute magician with the puck. He is a better playmaker than anyone on this team by far. I would take him back any day of the week for 3-3.5 mil for a 2nd line RW role behind Gaborik. He is still pretty young also, he can be taught discipline and defense.

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03-13-2010, 03:33 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
There are certain subjects that really get my goat. The purposeful ignorance as regards the Zherdev situation is one. If you'd engaged the actual points and provided a compelling counterargument I would be much more receptive. However, you went with:



That's a respectful post from a mature adult? No, it's not - it's dismissive, sarcastic and ignores the facts, which you claim to have at your fingertips. (And by the way, as regards your follow up, this fictitious trade for a second rounder is a total straw man - you don't know who offered what, when.) Please practice what you preach. If you take the following attitude:



You are categorically stating that you could give two ***** about everyone else's opinion. Consequently, you shouldn't be surprised when other posters are annoyed and it comes through in the tone of their posts.
You start a thread & than get an attitude if you don't like the answers that others give. How many Threads about Zherdev have been made that have covdered the same thing over & over & over again....


Question: Did Zherdev over play his hand with the Rangers & the NHL? YES

Question: Did Sather try to trade Zherdev? YES

Question: Did Zherdev's agent try to get him on several other teams? YES

Question: Did Zherdev & his agent come crawling back to the Rangers begging to sign the orginal offer? YES

Question: is Zherdev playing in the NHL? NO

Question: Would I want Zherdev on the team again next season? NO

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Old
03-13-2010, 03:35 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by EJS280 View Post
I for one loved Zherdev, and still do. No he's not Ryan Callahan on the back check, but not everyone is. He showed far more emotion than 3/4 of the scrubs on our team now, and he can be an absolute magician with the puck. He is a better playmaker than anyone on this team by far. I would take him back any day of the week for 3-3.5 mil for a 2nd line RW role behind Gaborik. He is still pretty young also, he can be taught discipline and defense.
They have been saying the same thing about this guy for years now.

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03-13-2010, 03:41 PM
  #114
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I hate it when people think Redden will magically disappear. I don't think Sather will pull another 'Gomez' this summer. And Redden in HFD seems like a pipe dream. In fact, I still have trouble believing the Gomez trade ever happened. Bob Gainey, wtf? and thanks! The best we can hope for is amnesty buyouts in 2011 when the CBA expires.

Honestly, I want to see some more Canadians on this team. Joe Thornton in 2011!

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03-13-2010, 03:42 PM
  #115
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How about we start bringing in guys who care about winning and not just about their paychecks?

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03-13-2010, 04:42 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by RussianRangersFan View Post
I cannot believe how pig-headed and ignorant posters can be on these boards. Did Zherdev have flaws? Of course he did, however you wouldn't want him back!? Hoosier and Brooklyn, I'm with you guys. Zherdev has something this team desperately needs, skill. Regardless of everything else, you can count on him for at least 55 points on a crappy team (ala 08-09), he'd get at the very least 60-65 on a decent team with decent linemates.

If we get the opportunity and he wants to sign here for a fair price, go for it. I don't know how that's going to work with Torts here but that's another convo.
Agree Agree Agree.

You guys are all morons. I'm pretty sure the majority of this forum thinks the entire NHL is not good enough for the Rangers except Volchenkov.

Mara - Gritty defenseman who plays hard. A crease clearer, a rocket of a slapshot (despite it degrading over the years), and a guy who gives his all every night. He was willing to come back for less than $2M a year from my understanding.

Dawes - Albeit not a good player, a 3rd liner, but a potential 20 goal scorer if he has some defenders on the ice. I think we were paying him 450k and he probably didn't want much more because he's in Calgary for 850k now. We traded him for a rental (D. Morris) so we could get eliminated 1st round.

Zherdev - He lacks defensive ability, and he's not the grittiest player, but he had tremendous skill, and a great shot. He would probably be a 30 goal scorer if he had some players backing up, or a person who can actually pass on the team. I don't remember him asking for an outrageous amount of money, and we lack this exact type of player on the ice. You guys want Kovalchuk, but you think he's too expensive, Zherdev is like a cheaper, less talented Kovalchuk. So I don't understand the logic here when you think he can't be a part of this team.


We lack goal scoring, and we lack defenseman who actually have some grit in their game. Look what 3 players we let go, 2 goal scorers, and a gritty defenseman.

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03-13-2010, 05:07 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Panfork View Post
Agree Agree Agree.

You guys are all morons. I'm pretty sure the majority of this forum thinks the entire NHL is not good enough for the Rangers except Volchenkov.

Mara - Gritty defenseman who plays hard. A crease clearer, a rocket of a slapshot (despite it degrading over the years), and a guy who gives his all every night. He was willing to come back for less than $2M a year from my understanding.

Dawes - Albeit not a good player, a 3rd liner, but a potential 20 goal scorer if he has some defenders on the ice. I think we were paying him 450k and he probably didn't want much more because he's in Calgary for 850k now. We traded him for a rental (D. Morris) so we could get eliminated 1st round.

Zherdev - He lacks defensive ability, and he's not the grittiest player, but he had tremendous skill, and a great shot. He would probably be a 30 goal scorer if he had some players backing up, or a person who can actually pass on the team. I don't remember him asking for an outrageous amount of money, and we lack this exact type of player on the ice. You guys want Kovalchuk, but you think he's too expensive, Zherdev is like a cheaper, less talented Kovalchuk. So I don't understand the logic here when you think he can't be a part of this team.


We lack goal scoring, and we lack defenseman who actually have some grit in their game. Look what 3 players we let go, 2 goal scorers, and a gritty defenseman.
Your points are well taken. But while not a Selke finalist Z is not bad on his side of the ice. He was a risk taker that got his fingers burnt every now and then, judging by his+6 (2nd on the team to Cally's +7).

What's been burning my butt is the stubborness by some of the Z haters. Facts are not good enough.

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03-13-2010, 05:08 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
How about we start bringing in guys who care about winning and not just about their paychecks?
Agreed. Like Dreary , Redden, Rozie, etc.

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03-13-2010, 05:09 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
No Zherdev...think Playoff No Shows....
No Zherdev, Think no playoffs. Problem solved.


Last edited by HoosierDaddy: 03-13-2010 at 05:24 PM.
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03-13-2010, 05:13 PM
  #120
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While I fully acknowledge Zherdev's skill, does this guy have the heart and fortitude to go in the corners or back-check his ass off when the game's on the line in the playoffs? Hell, the guy bailed on the NHL entirely because he didn't get a big enough paycheck to satisfy his ego. He's not in it to win a Cup and this team lacks heart and balls enough as is.

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03-13-2010, 05:37 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
While I fully acknowledge Zherdev's skill, does this guy have the heart and fortitude to go in the corners or back-check his ass off when the game's on the line in the playoffs? Hell, the guy bailed on the NHL entirely because he didn't get a big enough paycheck to satisfy his ego. He's not in it to win a Cup and this team lacks heart and balls enough as is.
Do we have a team good enough to be that picky? I think not. The guy has skill and can help us offensively. What free agents are there that will give us more than what he can?

Regardless, I can't see Sather offering him a contract or him accepting one, so it's moot.

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03-13-2010, 05:44 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
Agreed. Like Dreary , Redden, Rozie, etc.
Clearly, the league leader in blocked shots is only in it for his paycheck. Makes perfect sense.

Anyway, as GAG said, Zherdev ain't coming back anyway. That ship has sailed. Chalk up another mistake for Sather. Nice waste of an asset.

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03-13-2010, 05:59 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by RussianRangersFan View Post
I cannot believe how pig-headed and ignorant posters can be on these boards. Did Zherdev have flaws? Of course he did, however you wouldn't want him back!? Hoosier and Brooklyn, I'm with you guys. Zherdev has something this team desperately needs, skill. Regardless of everything else, you can count on him for at least 55 points on a crappy team (ala 08-09), he'd get at the very least 60-65 on a decent team with decent linemates.

If we get the opportunity and he wants to sign here for a fair price, go for it. I don't know how that's going to work with Torts here but that's another convo.

I agree the rangers deperately need a playmaking winger who can play on the 2nd line and score goals. That sounds like Zherdev to me. He definately has his issue but he will solve one of the rangers biggest problems secondary scoring. I'd say sign him and put him on the 2nd line with Dubinsky who he already has chemistry with. Imagine having two lines that could put the puck in the net.

Rangers need to worry about making the playoffs first instead of performances in the playoffs.


Last edited by XLJ: 03-13-2010 at 06:07 PM.
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Old
03-13-2010, 08:30 PM
  #124
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The thread isn't about undoing trades and signings. It's about bringing a guy back...you know, something that could actually happen.
Yeah that's why I said forget about Zherdev, then added some reasoning behind my opinion.

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03-13-2010, 11:44 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Clearly, the league leader in blocked shots is only in it for his paycheck. Makes perfect sense.

Anyway, as GAG said, Zherdev ain't coming back anyway. That ship has sailed. Chalk up another mistake for Sather. Nice waste of an asset.
What is it? ADD? The question was NOT whether he will be signed, but would you like that to happen.

I know he will not be a Ranger, but I would without any doubt trade Dubinski and Callahan for Z and would love to pay their salaries combined to Nick. Why? Because 1) I am convinced he has a future. 2) There is no way to sign a better player for 3.9 million.

I would like to have Marcel Hossa back too.

And to answer to one of the posts above why is that some fans like to show their affection to departed players I can say this: It is because team got worse without them. Much worse, as a matter of fact.

Yes, I want Mara, Jarg and Renney back. I want Don Maloney back as well. Somehow Rangers went downhill much faster without Don. I want Sather and his crazy coach out.

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