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Is the Avery Benching a sign of a divided team?

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Old
03-13-2010, 04:06 PM
  #76
eco's bones
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Avery has not had a good season. Not sure it's all him though. I do think Tortorella has his favorites and he has tried to rein Avery in. Maybe it makes sense to some but I think you have to live with some dumb penalties on his part if you want him to play an effective game--or at least the kind of game he has become known for.

In a way though it's a side issue--the Rangers with/without Avery kind of suck. There are so many other players who aren't having very good seasons either--from the captain on down. Many of them don't look all that motivated. The team--at least lately often to seems to run out of steam in the second or third periods. Some of the problems IMO have to do with Tortorella's my way or the highway style. Some of his players aren't talented enough to play the style of game he would like them to and he doesn't seeming willing to adjust to their deficiencies--or he and the GM are late in their adjustments.

I don't know. Everyone has their own take. As for Dagoon--there are lots of times I don't agree with him but overall I think he's a good poster and some people should cut him some slack.

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Old
03-13-2010, 05:06 PM
  #77
NYR Sting
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
You guys love to make personal attacks at me but you never have legit points. You hate towards me just makes me laugh and love the other 90% of u more. BRB Sting a few others live ur life to the max and then worry about ur families and loved ones and not so much about my life and who I am hanging with or doing. I have forgotten more about the true game of hockey then u will know combined.
How is what I said not a legit point? Did you or did you not claim last summer that you were going to stop being a fan of this team because they got a rid of a guy who plays 3 minutes a game and has no purpose in this sport other than to punch people in the face?

I don't even like Tortorella, but this is ridiculous. You have this agenda against Tortorella that makes no sense. What do you expect Tortorella to do with a team that pays Redden 6.5 million? How exactly would you coach this team? Furthermore, how exactly would you handle a guy like Avery, who is one incident away from facing serious punishment from this ridiculous league?

Here's the difference between you and me as far as being a fan of this sport is concerned. I know people in hockey, too, as others on this board do. I don't doubt that you do, either. But where your biggest concern is rumors because you see yourself as some sort of local Eklund, I hardly ever ask the people I know for rumors. I think I've spoken about one transaction related move in the last 3 years here that I found out about from a source.

I prefer to ask them about the game itself. Maybe you should do the same, then perhaps your biggest concern for a team that has more problems than I can list wouldn't be who the enforcer is. Maybe you should ask your connections what they think about your belief that Lundqvist is overrated. Whenever I've asked anyone "in the know" their thoughts about Lundqvist, they've echoed my own opinion: he's one of the top 3-4 goalies in the league.

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Old
03-13-2010, 05:09 PM
  #78
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It's not so much about Renney as it is losing Jagr. That move sent us in the wrong direction. We have the worst GM in the league, so I mean...what can ya do?

The players are bad...it's simple.. We have bad players all over the place including the entire D.

Anemic offense+ young/terrible defense=bad team.

Avery is not the problem (although he has been bad, lately), but he's an easy scapegoat for a frustrated, emotional coach that continues to grasp at straws as his team further unravels.


Last edited by KreiMeARiver: 03-13-2010 at 05:16 PM.
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Old
03-13-2010, 05:17 PM
  #79
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Old
03-13-2010, 05:18 PM
  #80
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Avery is simply not scoring the way he was scoring for the Rangers before. His ice time is lower this year. He is not drawing much penalties. He needs to play the way he did against Dallas.

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Old
03-13-2010, 05:26 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Avery has not had a good season. Not sure it's all him though. I do think Tortorella has his favorites and he has tried to rein Avery in. Maybe it makes sense to some but I think you have to live with some dumb penalties on his part if you want him to play an effective game--or at least the kind of game he has become known for.

In a way though it's a side issue--the Rangers with/without Avery kind of suck. There are so many other players who aren't having very good seasons either--from the captain on down. Many of them don't look all that motivated. The team--at least lately often to seems to run out of steam in the second or third periods. Some of the problems IMO have to do with Tortorella's my way or the highway style. Some of his players aren't talented enough to play the style of game he would like them to and he doesn't seeming willing to adjust to their deficiencies--or he and the GM are late in their adjustments.

I don't know. Everyone has their own take. As for Dagoon--there are lots of times I don't agree with him but overall I think he's a good poster and some people should cut him some slack.

I agree Torts cant have it both ways. If you want that reckless agitating Sean Avery you are going to have to live with a stupid penalty now and then. But Torts will flip out and bench him and talk about how he needs to be more disciplined. And a couple of weeks later he will say Avery is not playing like his old self anymore.

Avery can still be an effective player screening the goaltender, throwing hits and crashing the net. But I just dont see him being the type of player he was under Renney. Also the lack of playmaking throughout this team has probably hurt his goal scoring. He is not a guy that can create his own chances.

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Old
03-13-2010, 05:26 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
I really hope the Torts era ends soon I am losing interest in hockey by the day.
So... you're losing interest in the sport of hockey because you don't like the Rangers coach?
Okay. Bye bye.

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Old
03-13-2010, 05:27 PM
  #83
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Are we absolutely certain that Torts is holding Avery back? Could it be that Avery has lost some of his passion for the game? He strikes me as the kind of guy that won't be playing into his mid 30s.

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Old
03-13-2010, 05:29 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Are we absolutely certain that Torts is holding Avery back? Could it be that Avery has lost some of his passion for the game? He strikes me as the kind of guy that won't be playing into his mid 30s.
Or could it just be that neither Avery OR Tortorella is exactly sure how Avery should be playing, seeing as how this league clearly has it in for him?

Have you all forgotten that this league punishes Avery more for making dirty jokes that offend people than it does players who commit dirty hits that injure people?

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Old
03-13-2010, 05:31 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Or could it just be that neither Avery OR Tortorella is exactly sure how Avery should be playing, seeing as how this league clearly has it in for him?

Have you all forgotten that this league punishes Avery more for making dirty jokes that offend people than it does players who commit dirty hits that injure people?
I mean I guess...but that doesn't explain why from time to time we see glimmers of his old self. His efforts have just been very inconsistent.

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Old
03-13-2010, 05:38 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
I mean I guess...but that doesn't explain why from time to time we see glimmers of his old self. His efforts have just been very inconsistent.
I still see effort. I just think he's confused. He's confused because he's not exactly sure how much of his real game he should be playing. He's confused because, like everyone else on this team, he either has no clear role/niche, or is playing in the wrong one.

As coach, Tortorella faces the same problem. Because the team is poorly built, he is forced to play Avery and everyone else out of role. And while he knows how effective Avery can be, he too is probably finding it difficult to quantify just how close to the line Avery should be playing.

I'm willing to bet Tortorella would love for Avery to be the Avery of old, but he's probably just as afraid of what that could lead to for Avery, and the team in general, as Avery himself is.

What is unfortunately lost in everything else that surrounds Avery is that he's actually a really smart player in terms of positioning and instincts. Yes, his aggression/adrenaline can overpower his brains at times and cause him to do stupid things, but if you watch him throughout his career, he's got a lot of hockey IQ. But this season, it hasn't been as evident, and I think it's because he's not exactly sure what he should be doing. And I'm not sure you can totally blame Johnny Cakes for that, because if I was in his position, I'm not sure how I'd explain it to Avery, either.

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Old
03-13-2010, 05:40 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by The Thomas J. View Post
Avery?
Yep, Avery.

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Old
03-13-2010, 05:44 PM
  #88
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There's been plenty of games when Avery has agitated, but that gets overshadowed because of the team's struggles this season.
Granted, he's having a pretty putrid season, but so does 90% of the team. He was clearly a better player when he was surrounded by talent.

He played with Prucha, Cullen, Nylander and Shanny in 06-07... Shanny, Gomez, Jagr and Dubinsky in 07-08... Zherdev, Gomez, Antropov and Dubinsky in 08-09.

This season he's been bouncing all over the place, but he has mostly gotten 3rd and 4th Line duty...

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Old
03-13-2010, 05:46 PM
  #89
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dump him, open up about 1.2 mil in space by replacing him with Weise next season. his 9 goal 25 point season aint gonna be hard to replace.

Most overrated player that has been on broadway since petr prucha.

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Old
03-13-2010, 05:55 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
If Avery can't figure out "play your game on the edge but don't do really retarded stuff and get suspended" then he shouldn't blame **** on the coach.
He hasn't gotten himself suspended for doing anything "retarded" on the ice. Perhaps rather than "mixed messages" I ought to have said "conflicting messages."

Tortorella's having attempted to micro-manage Avery's game in this manner has been lamentable, to say the very least.

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Old
03-13-2010, 06:05 PM
  #91
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I'll bet Avery has a hell of a game tomorrow because of this... not sure if that's intentional on the part of Torts but we NEED Avery to be AVERY tomorrow.

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Old
03-13-2010, 06:07 PM
  #92
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It is hard to believe someone other then Sather actually gave him 4 million a year.

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Old
03-13-2010, 06:12 PM
  #93
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Avery is a very solid value at under $2 million a season for the next three years. Hope he can rediscover his old game, or at least find a better balance between offensive production and agitating.

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Old
03-13-2010, 06:53 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post

I prefer to ask them about the game itself. Maybe you should do the same, then perhaps your biggest concern for a team that has more problems than I can list wouldn't be who the enforcer is. Maybe you should ask your connections what they think about your belief that Lundqvist is overrated. Whenever I've asked anyone "in the know" their thoughts about Lundqvist, they've echoed my own opinion: he's one of the top 3-4 goalies in the league.

Funny how wrong you can be and still think you know it all. Most experts see him as a top10 but not near a top 5 guy. The Rangers and there fans are well known to over blow there prospects and players Hank is a prime example. He is known to take weeks off each season he has played and has been fragile after giving up goals and suspect to concentration lapses. My friends are current NHL players trust me we talk far more then fighting. They also talk scouting with me and say he is a poor positional goalie that has a week glove and plays to deep. People on here love to ***** about me liking tough hockey and fighters but it just proves all you so called experts don't understand the game if you feel it doesn't belong in it.

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Old
03-13-2010, 08:09 PM
  #95
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Outside of the Ottawa game, Avery hasn't played like he gives a **** lately. That's why he's getting benched.

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Old
03-13-2010, 08:19 PM
  #96
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Dagoon, I've just read your last post : please explain what is the statistical difference between a goalie that is between 6th and 10th in the league and one that is 3rd or 4th. How many percent are you arguing about here and really what's the freakin' difference?

Also: the league has really done enough to cool Avery down by itself. Tortorella just has to manage that impact on his club. If Avery is not providing a benefit that outweighs the increased, unfair scrutiny that his team suffers when Avery is on the ice/playing - then he shouldn't play. Period.

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Old
03-13-2010, 08:43 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by BwayBshirt View Post
Outside of the Ottawa game, Avery hasn't played like he gives a **** lately. That's why he's getting benched.
You got it!

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Old
03-13-2010, 10:12 PM
  #98
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He's too busy tweeting/shopping to actually show up at games.
Posted via Mobile Device

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Old
03-14-2010, 01:03 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Funny how wrong you can be and still think you know it all. Most experts see him as a top10 but not near a top 5 guy. The Rangers and there fans are well known to over blow there prospects and players Hank is a prime example. He is known to take weeks off each season he has played and has been fragile after giving up goals and suspect to concentration lapses. My friends are current NHL players trust me we talk far more then fighting. They also talk scouting with me and say he is a poor positional goalie that has a week glove and plays to deep. People on here love to ***** about me liking tough hockey and fighters but it just proves all you so called experts don't understand the game if you feel it doesn't belong in it.
Then how come every time I turn on a visit team's broadcast I hear the commentators gushing about how good Hank is? I live in South Carolina so I get SportsSouth and last night the Atlanta guys were losing their loads over him.

Honestly question with no amount of disrespect at all: Did he not want to do a signing with you or come to eat at your restaurant or something like that? I just don't understand your beef with the guy...especially if you call yourself a Rangers fan.

The other night when the Rangers lost 2-1 to the Sabres, you wrote on your Twitter something to the effect of "Hank is average and got outplayed again." How exactly is giving up two goals "average and getting outplayed?" Hank stopped 30 of 32 while Miller stop 35 of 36. Is four more saves really outplaying a guy?

I can't count how many games he has single handedly won for the Rangers since he came into the league. He basically pushed the series against Washington to game seven by himself last year. The guy has been a Vezina finalist three times.

As for tough guy hockey...there are a lot of us here that understand what playing tough means and we all know it has a place in the game. I for one like the acquisitions of Prust and Shelly and I hope they are both on the roster next year.

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Old
03-14-2010, 01:45 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
Then how come every time I turn on a visit team's broadcast I hear the commentators gushing about how good Hank is? I live in South Carolina so I get SportsSouth and last night the Atlanta guys were losing their loads over him.

Honestly question with no amount of disrespect at all: Did he not want to do a signing with you or come to eat at your restaurant or something like that? I just don't understand your beef with the guy...especially if you call yourself a Rangers fan.

The other night when the Rangers lost 2-1 to the Sabres, you wrote on your Twitter something to the effect of "Hank is average and got outplayed again." How exactly is giving up two goals "average and getting outplayed?" Hank stopped 30 of 32 while Miller stop 35 of 36. Is four more saves really outplaying a guy?

I can't count how many games he has single handedly won for the Rangers since he came into the league. He basically pushed the series against Washington to game seven by himself last year. The guy has been a Vezina finalist three times.

As for tough guy hockey...there are a lot of us here that understand what playing tough means and we all know it has a place in the game. I for one like the acquisitions of Prust and Shelly and I hope they are both on the roster next year.
Don't mind Dagoon and all these other bloggers. They seem to enjoy looking down on other posters.

The fact is every other team in the league looks at Lundqvist as a threat and considers him elite. Dagoon even went on to say that Lundqvist is "a poor positional goalie." He's right, he knows more then anyone here.

Dagoon, maybe you need to stop listening to these "other" players and make assesments yourself. The guy(Lundqvist) plays on the team you're a fan of. Just watch his game and tell me if his positioning is poor. Good lord, now I've heard it all.

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