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How would you feel about bringing zherdev back next year?

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Old
03-14-2010, 12:50 AM
  #126
dtrap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
Agreed. Like Dreary , Redden, Rozie, etc.
Honestly...that's a pretty damn large assumption to make. How do you know?

And I swear to god if this turns into a another Drury bashing thread for no reason then I just give up...

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Old
03-14-2010, 12:51 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
What is it? ADD? The question was NOT whether he will be signed, but would you like that to happen.

I know he will not be a Ranger, but I would without any doubt trade Dubinski and Callahan for Z and would love to pay their salaries combined to Nick. Why? Because 1) I am convinced he has a future. 2) There is no way to sign a better player for 3.9 million.

I would like to have Marcel Hossa back too.

And to answer to one of the posts above why is that some fans like to show their affection to departed players I can say this: It is because team got worse without them. Much worse, as a matter of fact.

Yes, I want Mara, Jarg and Renney back. I want Don Maloney back as well. Somehow Rangers went downhill much faster without Don. I want Sather and his crazy coach out.
Wasn't Don a large part of a lot of the crappy drafting we did in the early 2000's?

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03-14-2010, 01:24 AM
  #128
Vito Andolini
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Do we have a team good enough to be that picky? I think not. The guy has skill and can help us offensively.
If we are not a team that is good enough to be picky about it's players...then THAT'S the problem. That is what needs to be fixed. And you don't fix it by continuing the band-aid moves that Sather makes each and every off-season.

If you don't have the horses to actually go for it, then getting those horses needs to be the game plan. Not picking up flawed players to continue the cycle of mediocrity.

The goal should be to contend for the cup. Zherdev satisfies no short term or long term purpose towards that goal. So thanks, but no thanks.

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Old
03-14-2010, 01:30 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Vito Andolini View Post
If we are not a team that is good enough to be picky about it's players...then THAT'S the problem. That is what needs to be fixed. And you don't fix it by continuing the band-aid moves that Sather makes each and every off-season.

If you don't have the horses to actually go for it, then getting those horses needs to be the game plan. Not picking up flawed players to continue the cycle of mediocrity.

The goal should be to contend for the cup. Zherdev satisfies no short term or long term purpose towards that goal. So thanks, but no thanks.
There is no team in the NHL that has no flawed players, the task is to put them in a position where they will succeed, where their strengths will be maximized and weaknesses minimized. Also, in regards to the cycle of mediocrocity, there are levels of flaws. You have Kotalik flawed, where all he has is his bomb of a shot and that's IT. Zherdev provides a much more balanced offensive game, especially playmaking.

Including Zherdev on the Rangers, whether it be for 3.25 mil to even 4.25 mil would help us towards the "goal" of a stanley cup both long term and short term. You cannot, CANNOT, win the stanley cup with a team full of Callahans. You need equal parts of skill, determination, grit, etc from the team as a whole. Not everyone needs to or even can provide those things simultaneously. That's why its a team.

Sign Z if we get the chance, although I doubt we will.

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Old
03-14-2010, 05:06 AM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
Honestly...that's a pretty damn large assumption to make. How do you know?

And I swear to god if this turns into a another Drury bashing thread for no reason then I just give up...

Good stuff dtrap, you called me out. My answer is I don't know. But I was replying to a poster that seemed dead-sure he knows what's going on in an introverted persons head. I figured 2 can play that game.

I don't dislike Dreary, but I bash him every chance I get so that his cult followers feel what it's like to have a brash know-it-all trashing a player without facts. For example, some will throw something out like "blah, blah, he has no heart, blah, blah). How the hell do you respond to that? How do you measure "heart." Every time I've called someone out to explain what they mean this is what I get "?????????........." Silence. Or the typical, he doesn't go into the corners and battle in front of the net. These imbeciles actually trash a player because he plays a skill game instead of the of the muck and grind game reserved for plumbers hanging onto a roster spot by sheer desire, not skill.

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Old
03-14-2010, 09:39 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
While I fully acknowledge Zherdev's skill, does this guy have the heart and fortitude to go in the corners or back-check his ass off when the game's on the line in the playoffs? Hell, the guy bailed on the NHL entirely because he didn't get a big enough paycheck to satisfy his ego. He's not in it to win a Cup and this team lacks heart and balls enough as is.
Exactly. We were warned by Jackets fans about every bad aspect of this kid's head and game when the deal happened. Zherdev lived up (or down) to those assessments of him.

He was acquired out of desperation. It's time to stop making moves from that framework, and bringing him back would be exactly that.

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Old
03-14-2010, 10:10 AM
  #132
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I think Kovy will give us secondary scoring. :-x

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Old
03-14-2010, 10:26 AM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
These imbeciles actually trash a player because he plays a skill game instead of the of the muck and grind game reserved for plumbers hanging onto a roster spot by sheer desire, not skill.
I guess I just don't want the second most important forward on this team to be a floater who cares more about his paycheck than winning the Stanley Cup. The dude is a career -46 despite having 239 points.

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Old
03-14-2010, 10:54 AM
  #134
Jaromir Jagr
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
I guess I just don't want the second most important forward on this team to be a floater who cares more about his paycheck than winning the Stanley Cup. The dude is a career -46 despite having 239 points.
Yeah, because +/- is a telling tale. That Chris Drury doesn't care about winning either, right? His +/- isn't so good.

Cut the argument.

Zherdev on this team; floater or not, would make us 10x better. We'd have RW depth, scoring depth, and no doubt he'd be touching 20 goals or would have had 20 goals already.

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Old
03-14-2010, 11:07 AM
  #135
Vito Andolini
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Originally Posted by RussianRangersFan View Post
There is no team in the NHL that has no flawed players, the task is to put them in a position where they will succeed, where their strengths will be maximized and weaknesses minimized. Also, in regards to the cycle of mediocrocity, there are levels of flaws. You have Kotalik flawed, where all he has is his bomb of a shot and that's IT. Zherdev provides a much more balanced offensive game, especially playmaking.

Including Zherdev on the Rangers, whether it be for 3.25 mil to even 4.25 mil would help us towards the "goal" of a stanley cup both long term and short term. You cannot, CANNOT, win the stanley cup with a team full of Callahans. You need equal parts of skill, determination, grit, etc from the team as a whole. Not everyone needs to or even can provide those things simultaneously. That's why its a team.

Sign Z if we get the chance, although I doubt we will.
How do you put your 2nd or 3rd most talented scorer in a position to succeed? Especially with someone like Zherdev, he's either producing offensively, or he's a waste of space. In the playoffs, these are the players that a team relies upon to step up and play big time minutes and score.

If Zherdev is on this team, he is automatically a go-to player. I challenge you to find anyone on Detroit's, Anaheim's or Pittsburgh's stanley cup rosters who play a similar style of game to Zherdev.

I don't think you'll find them, because team's that rely on floaters like Zherdev in the playoffs, are the teams that get knocked out early.

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Old
03-14-2010, 11:08 AM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
Yeah, because +/- is a telling tale. That Chris Drury doesn't care about winning either, right? His +/- isn't so good.

Cut the argument.

Zherdev on this team; floater or not, would make us 10x better. We'd have RW depth, scoring depth, and no doubt he'd be touching 20 goals or would have had 20 goals already.
In the long run, +/- can be a useful statistic.

But we can't just add Zherdev to this roster and assume the depth just improves. We might not have been able to afford Gaborik or Prospal with Zherdev's $4 million cap hit on the books.

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03-14-2010, 11:14 AM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
In the long run, +/- can be a useful statistic.

But we can't just add Zherdev to this roster and assume the depth just improves. We might not have been able to afford Gaborik or Prospal with Zherdev's $4 million cap hit on the books.
Zherdev was +6, good for second best +/- on the team last year.

As regards his salary, you cut out Kotalik plus any one of Voros, Lisin or Brashear and that's his ~$4MM right there.

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Old
03-14-2010, 11:19 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Zherdev was +6, good for second best +/- on the team last year.

As regards his salary, you cut out Kotalik plus any one of Voros, Lisin or Brashear and that's his ~$4MM right there.
You're assuming the Rangers make the right moves in hindsight realizing none of these guys panned out. Not fair.

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Old
03-14-2010, 11:29 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
You're assuming the Rangers make the right moves in hindsight realizing none of these guys panned out. Not fair.
Just like 90% of arguments against Zherdev here and their pig-headed dislike of him, but hey two wrongs don't make a right.

One way or another, Zherdev on the team makes them better short and long term.

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Old
03-14-2010, 11:30 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
Wasn't Don a large part of a lot of the crappy drafting we did in the early 2000's?
Before Sather Smith did the draft alone. When Sather came over Don did it for the most part. Most Maloney picks play in NHL. They just developed later. Hugh was a clear bust, no question. However, Rangers have never relied on draft picks because their fans are nuts, have no patience and want big name signing or traded for every summer. I am no different. I believe Dubi and Cali was a good try that has been proven a waste of time. They are not elite players. Zherdev may not be either, but jury is still out for him, unlike some others here.

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Old
03-14-2010, 01:24 PM
  #141
NYR Sting
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
What is it? ADD? The question was NOT whether he will be signed, but would you like that to happen.
I've said many, many times, as I said the moment it happened, that letting him go was a mistake, and I actually manage to do that with legitimate points instead of weird hypotheticals about trading players for him.


Quote:
I would like to have Marcel Hossa back too.
Fourth liners aren't that hard to find. Even this awful team sometimes finds good ones.

Quote:
Yes, I want Mara, Jarg and Renney back. I want Don Maloney back as well. Somehow Rangers went downhill much faster without Don. I want Sather and his crazy coach out.
Yeah, I'm a big Jarg fan, too.

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Old
03-14-2010, 01:39 PM
  #142
Panfork
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
In the long run, +/- can be a useful statistic.

But we can't just add Zherdev to this roster and assume the depth just improves. We might not have been able to afford Gaborik or Prospal with Zherdev's $4 million cap hit on the books.
It is, except when you're on a failing team with bad defense (Blue Jackets) you're bound to get an inflicted +/- rating.

Blue Jackets (03-04): -11 (14th Place)
Blue Jackets (05-06): -13 (13th Place)
Blue Jackets (06-07): -19 (11th Place)
Blue Jackets (07-08): -9 (13th Place)
Rangers (08-09): +6 (7th Place)

In my opinion, having +6 on a 7th place team with an anemic and steadily failing defense is actually pretty commendable. Zherdev was no defense whiz, but he did okay.



By the way, all you nay-sayers using the excuse, "THIS TEAM CANNOT BE FIXED BY ONE THING ALONE!!! ZHERDEV IS NOT OUR MIRACLE FIX!", that's not the point. Zherdev is another booster shot to our iffy offense. Next year our defense will be older, better, more experienced. If we can get rid of Redden and sign pretty much anybody, the defense will improve and cap space will be generated. In fact, signing Zherdev to $3M or $4M for one year won't even engulf all the space Redden will clear up. Our options are limited in the Free Agency this year, so why not sign Zherdev to 1 year for a couple of million just to see if he's ready to produce? If you want, go with Marleau. Get him right after his peak, sign him to 5 years, $30M.

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Old
03-15-2010, 12:23 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Panfork View Post
If you want, go with Marleau. Get him right after his peak, sign him to 5 years, $30M.
No. Don't do this. Definitely, definitely don't do this.

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