HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Is the Avery Benching a sign of a divided team?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-14-2010, 07:19 PM
  #126
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,235
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I'm Avery's biggest fan, but his benching was kinda "meh" for me. I wasn't happy about it, but whatever. Sometimes he needs to be set straight... Also, as long as Torts is around, it's gonna happen.
Pffft, get in line.

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2010, 07:20 PM
  #127
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,235
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
the reasoning isn't what is important, the results are.

that being said, when was the last time we saw Avery not show up to a game against Philly?
although I cant remember Seans performances in those games, the Flyers have smacked us around pretty well the last few times weve played em.

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2010, 08:07 PM
  #128
haveandare
Registered User
 
haveandare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 6,452
vCash: 500
He wasn't playing very well at all, he gets benched for a game then he comes back and is the best player on the ice for the next 60 minutes of hockey. Try to tweak this however you want, but Torts did the right thing here and we won the game because of it.

Would he have scored two goals if he wasn't benched? What kind of question is that? We can go off about hypotheticals all day or we can just admit that Avery's benching helped the team win this huge game and move on. The Torts hating is fine with me when its justified, but give the guy credit when he's right if you're going to tear him apart when he's wrong.

haveandare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2010, 08:11 PM
  #129
nyr7andcounting
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,919
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
the reasoning isn't what is important, the results are.

that being said, when was the last time we saw Avery not show up to a game against Philly?
Yea that's how I feel... at least as far as late season goes. Honestly went to last year's game at home on 3/15 against philly when Avery also scored 2 goals and we had a big win. He also scored the night before that game in Philly. To me, Avery was going to have a good game today regardless of what happened Friday. That's why I give Avery the credit today, not Torts for scratching him and then watching him play great next game.

nyr7andcounting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2010, 08:13 PM
  #130
Riche16
McCready guitar god
 
Riche16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: FL
Country: United States
Posts: 3,698
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
He wasn't playing very well at all, he gets benched for a game then he comes back and is the best player on the ice for the next 60 minutes of hockey. Try to tweak this however you want, but Torts did the right thing here and we won the game because of it.

Would he have scored two goals if he wasn't benched? What kind of question is that? We can go off about hypotheticals all day or we can just admit that Avery's benching helped the team win this huge game and move on. The Torts hating is fine with me when its justified, but give the guy credit when he's right if you're going to tear him apart when he's wrong.
Good post.

Riche16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2010, 08:16 PM
  #131
t3hg00se
Registered User
 
t3hg00se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,394
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to t3hg00se
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Hank seemed pleased with Avery responding. Like I said on the first post Sean is friends with the bigtime players on this team F'ing with him is dangerous in the room. Admit or not but Torts is playing with fire
And he clearly knows what he is doing.

t3hg00se is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2010, 08:16 PM
  #132
nyr7andcounting
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,919
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
What other vets other than Redden can you afford to bench? Sean's game is such that a benching would fuel him. Tort's just did that and timed it perfectly.

Benching Rozsy won't do anything, he's a key part back there. Same goes for Girardi, Staal etc. Benching Redden hasn't done a damn thing. The guy has just lost his game. There's not much you can do...he is what he is.

But Avery....we all know the avery of the last few weeks hasn't been the top tier Avery we're oh so familiar with. Torts saw the room for improvement, made the benching and avery comes up w/ this game. It was part tactical and part Avery not being his usual self. John knows that Avery is the type of player that you can do good by benching, but the timing must be perfect. He did it against a lackluster atlanta team which got aves all riled up against a big philly matchup. Clutch coaching by Torts.
I would start with Girardi and Redden yes. Not sure that benching Redden hasn't had an effect as he hasn't been benched too often has he? I would definitely scratch Girardi at some point. I think Potter can do alright for a game or 2 here and there.

nyr7andcounting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2010, 08:20 PM
  #133
hpNYR
HF Forecaster
 
hpNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burbank, CA
Country: Armenia
Posts: 7,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr7andcounting View Post
Yea that's how I feel... at least as far as late season goes. Honestly went to last year's game at home on 3/15 against philly when Avery also scored 2 goals and we had a big win. He also scored the night before that game in Philly. To me, Avery was going to have a good game today regardless of what happened Friday. That's why I give Avery the credit today, not Torts for scratching him and then watching him play great next game.
Avery gets credit for preparing himself for today. Torts said the same thing.
But to honestly sit there and say that Torts' benching of Avery had nothing to do w/ Averys' play tonight is off mark.

You know damn well that Avery got the message. It was way too obvious. This Avery can be easily distinguished from the Avery of the last few games.

Today Avery played his game on that fine line/borderline that Torts wants him to play on. The previous few games he's been a notch or two below that line. For a player like Avery and his style; a notch or two below that line isn't acceptable. He is sucessful playing on the edge/ on that line.

hpNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2010, 08:23 PM
  #134
hpNYR
HF Forecaster
 
hpNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burbank, CA
Country: Armenia
Posts: 7,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr7andcounting View Post
I would start with Girardi and Redden yes. Not sure that benching Redden hasn't had an effect as he hasn't been benched too often has he? I would definitely scratch Girardi at some point. I think Potter can do alright for a game or 2 here and there.
Unfrotunately at this time of year, it's experience that wins out(especially at defense). If we were in the middle of the season then yeah, you can get Potter a look or two.

hpNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2010, 08:30 PM
  #135
Kind of Blue
Registered User
 
Kind of Blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 983
vCash: 500
Under Renney, Avery played 16-18 minutes per game, usually on one of our top two lines, with some of our best players.

From Day 1, Tortorella has played him closer to 10-12 minutes per game, usually on one of our bottom two lines, with some of our worst players.

Tortorella reduced his role and his importance to the team (and, again, I want to point out that Avery didn't play himself into a reduced role, but it was given to him straight away). I think that hurt Avery, and it makes it difficult for him to bring the fire every night. Without the fire, there is no Avery.

The good thing with him, though, is that he is relatively easy to ignite. See the Dallas game. See today's game.

Tortorella will never give him the increased minutes and increased role that he had under Renney. So, for the good of the team, Sean is going to have to find a way to accept the situation and make the most of it and realize he can still be a difference-maker and he is still really important to the team if he's playing 12 minutes a night on the 3rd line.


Last edited by Kind of Blue: 03-14-2010 at 08:37 PM.
Kind of Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2010, 08:33 PM
  #136
nyr7andcounting
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,919
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
But Avery....we all know the avery of the last few weeks hasn't been the top tier Avery we're oh so familiar with. Torts saw the room for improvement, made the benching and avery comes up w/ this game. It was part tactical and part Avery not being his usual self. John knows that Avery is the type of player that you can do good by benching, but the timing must be perfect. He did it against a lackluster atlanta team which got aves all riled up against a big philly matchup. Clutch coaching by Torts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
I would also argue that of all the players on our roster, no players has been begging for a benching more than Sean. Not just because of how mediocre he has been playing, but because of how capable he is of being an impact night in and night out.
Alright I'll agree with you guys here. It's debatable whether or not he would have played well against Philly regardless. But he did, and if the scratch made a difference I'm happy for him and Torts.

BUT... Avery played his type of game tonight and that's why he was so effective. Part of why I disagree with the way Torts handles him is that he reigns Avery in, and then he scratches him because he's not "engaged" enough. We were all happy with how Avery played today. It's the same way he's played in past years for us. So Torts needs to accept it and let him play the way that allows him to be most effective.

If Avery got an extra 2 minutes on the Pronger hit or the play where Hartnell dropped his gloves and Avery didn't, then what happens? Is Torts going to scratch him again like last year? Torts needs to realize he's one our better players (unfortunately) and accept that for every game like today, there might be a game where Avery takes 2 bad penalties.

nyr7andcounting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2010, 08:38 PM
  #137
hpNYR
HF Forecaster
 
hpNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burbank, CA
Country: Armenia
Posts: 7,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kind of Blue View Post
Under Renney, Avery played more 16-18 minutes per game, usually on one of our top two lines, with some of our best players.

From Day 1, Tortorella has played him closer to 10-12 minutes per game, usually on one of our bottom two lines, with some of our worst players.

Tortorella reduced his role and his importance to the team (and, again, I want to point out, Avery didn't play himself into a reduced role, but it was given to him straight away). I think that hurt Avery, and it makes it difficult for him to bring the fire every night.

The good thing with him, though, is that he is relatively easy to ignite. See the Dallas game. See today's game.

Tortorella will never give him the increased minutes and increased role that he had under Renney. So, for the good of the team, Sean is going to have to find a way to accept the situation and make the most of it and realize he can still be a difference-maker and he is still really important to the team if he's playing 12 minutes a night on the 3rd line.
Avery can win himself minutes under Torts, and he has done so in the past. His play hasn't been conistant enough to keep him in the top 6. He did get top 6 minutes sporadically during the season. Torts rewards production and plays those producers the most. I don't think it's quite fair to say that Avery was given a reduced role. After todays performance I'm sure he will again get additional minutes.

hpNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2010, 08:46 PM
  #138
Fire Sather
Play Like a Pug
 
Fire Sather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 20,217
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Fire Sather
How do we motivate Avery every game?

Really.

Everytime he has something extra to play for such as playing a former team, or responding to a benching like today he goes out there, plays his ass off and scores 2 goals..

Seems to happen like clockwork..

Fire Sather is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2010, 08:47 PM
  #139
Kind of Blue
Registered User
 
Kind of Blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 983
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
Avery can win himself minutes under Torts, and he has done so in the past. His play hasn't been conistant enough to keep him in the top 6. He did get top 6 minutes sporadically during the season. Torts rewards production and plays those producers the most. I don't think it's quite fair to say that Avery was given a reduced role. After todays performance I'm sure he will again get additional minutes.
Re the bolded statement...

In his first 14 games of the season, 13 times Avery played less than 15 minutes. In 5 of those games he actually played 10 minutes or less. So he was given that reduced role straight away. In 2007-08, he only had 2 games the whole season where he played 10 minutes or less -- and one of those games he left early with an injury.

Further, to say Avery played in the top 6 this year is a stretch. In any case, it's a major difference from when he was a regular top 6 player -- and even a first line player -- under Renney.

Kind of Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2010, 08:48 PM
  #140
silverfish
KEVIN!
 
silverfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Standing on a Train
Country: United States
Posts: 15,930
vCash: 500
If he doesn't see the motivation of getting this team to the playoffs he's not the player I think he is.

I personally think that he and Henrik are going to go on an absolute tear to finish off the season. Those are just the types of players that these guys are. You can see just how bad they want to win.

silverfish is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2010, 08:53 PM
  #141
Riche16
McCready guitar god
 
Riche16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: FL
Country: United States
Posts: 3,698
vCash: 500
Doesn't he get paid millions to motivate him?

Riche16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2010, 08:54 PM
  #142
Kind of Blue
Registered User
 
Kind of Blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 983
vCash: 500
Tom Renney.

Kind of Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2010, 08:57 PM
  #143
Fire Sather
Play Like a Pug
 
Fire Sather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 20,217
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Fire Sather
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
Doesn't he get paid millions to motivate him?
Exactly.. this is more of a bash Avery thread than praise him..

Why does he do so well when he has extra motivation? Bring it every game and he could be a 2nd liner..

Fire Sather is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2010, 09:05 PM
  #144
Kind of Blue
Registered User
 
Kind of Blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 983
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Exactly.. this is more of a bash Avery thread than praise him..

Why does he do so well when he has extra motivation? Bring it every game and he could be a 2nd liner..
post 139


Last edited by Kind of Blue: 03-14-2010 at 09:48 PM.
Kind of Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2010, 09:11 PM
  #145
Dredden
JT Miller
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 1,430
vCash: 500
Bench him every other game.

Dredden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2010, 09:19 PM
  #146
I Am Chariot
One shift at a time
 
I Am Chariot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 14,526
vCash: 500
Quote:
How do we motivate Avery every game?
Now we see the challenge for any coach. And its not just Avery. ITS EVERY PLAYER ON THE ROSTER.

They all have to man up and play hard with Passion or they don't deserve to win at this point in the season because the race for the Stanley Cup is beginning.

__________________
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man
I Am Chariot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2010, 09:22 PM
  #147
I Am Chariot
One shift at a time
 
I Am Chariot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 14,526
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
Doesn't he get paid millions to motivate him?
NHL plaers are, for the most part, not motivated by money.

Yes they are when it comes time to think, sign contract. But once the games begin very few if any of these guys think about money.

Of course they are all blessed with millions of dollars to play hockey. But so is the guy sitting on either side of you. They are beyond being motivated by money once the game begins.

No one in the locker room is cheering LETS GO EARN OUR PAYCHECKS!!!!!!

I Am Chariot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2010, 09:25 PM
  #148
hpNYR
HF Forecaster
 
hpNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burbank, CA
Country: Armenia
Posts: 7,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kind of Blue View Post
Re the bolded statement...

In his first 14 games of the season, 13 times Avery played less than 15 minutes. In 5 of those games he actually played 10 minutes or less. So he was given that reduced role straight away. In 2007-08, he only had 2 games the whole season where he played 10 minutes or less -- and one of those games he left early with an injury.

Further, to say Avery played in the top 6 this year is a stretch. In any case, it's a major difference from when he was a regular top 6 player -- and even a first line player -- under Renney.
I completely understand. Your assesment is very fair w/ solid backup. Personally, I don't think Avery belongs in the top 6. He could be a borderline 2nd line player who can in different situations be a plug-in on the 1st line too. However, I think he's your perfect 3rd liner on a competitive team. His production isn't consistant enough for him to be getting top 6 minutes. You play your players who produce at a more consistant pace.

Prospal-Jokinen-Gaborik-Dubinsky-Callahan etc. Those guys tend to put up points more freq than Avery. You can blame it on the minutes Avery has gotten but all the names above have been moved around throughout the line-up except maybe for Prospal and Gaborik. Avery can still be Avery while getting 3rd line minutes, IMO.

hpNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2010, 09:45 PM
  #149
Kind of Blue
Registered User
 
Kind of Blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 983
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
I completely understand. Your assesment is very fair w/ solid backup. Personally, I don't think Avery belongs in the top 6. He could be a borderline 2nd line player who can in different situations be a plug-in on the 1st line too. However, I think he's your perfect 3rd liner on a competitive team. His production isn't consistant enough for him to be getting top 6 minutes. You play your players who produce at a more consistant pace.
I wasn't even getting into where he belongs. I was just trying to make the point of how the reduced role/importance may have effected him psychologically. I feel like that's something he's struggled with, and while that's the case, I think it is difficult for him to play with fire every night. A prototypical Avery performance, like we saw today, that takes A LOT of emotion.


Last edited by Kind of Blue: 03-14-2010 at 09:52 PM.
Kind of Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2010, 10:16 PM
  #150
BobSantos
 
BobSantos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 538
vCash: 500
I guess the answer to this:

Is the Avery Benching a sign of a divided team?

Is this:

No.

BobSantos is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:11 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.