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Torts put the kibosh of Rangers players/parents trip

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Old
03-14-2010, 11:21 PM
  #51
Tawnos
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Its not like he's banning their parents from the games, he's not even for sure saying that they cant organize the trip! Read the article, "several sources" who are all SO reliable that Larry can't name them say that Torts is behind this.



Exactly.

Why does every thread about every idiotic Brooks' story turn into everyone blaming Torts for all of this team's problems? I've asked before and I'll ask again, when are the players at fault? Nobody ever wants to blame them, but they've been in the same position two years in a row with two totally different coaches, seems like its just as much their fault as it is their coaches'. A coach is supposed to put together a strategy, set lines, make plays etc, not go out on the ice and hold these grown men's hands while they play a game they've been playing their entire lives.
No one has let the players off the hook here. In fact, if you read what many of us are saying in criticism of Tortorella here, we aren't doing that at all. There are plenty of threads complaining about players on this board. This thread is about the coach.

And are you really, at all satisfied with the way Tortorella has handled the part I bolded out in your post? That is also minimizing what the coach does. He's also supposed to managed their personalities. That's not hand-holding. It's the coaches job to maximize results with the roster he has. Good coaches do that. The Rangers got the fifth seed and into the 2nd round on an only slightly more talented roster two years ago. How did they do that? They were getting better coaching than they are today. Yes, Jagr was pissed and yes, the defense was more experienced. That doesn't change the fact that the coach was responsible for the work ethic and structure of that team.

For three years we saw a well-coached group play hockey that we could be proud of as Rangers fans because of their work ethic and their care for each other as teammates. Last year was a transition year, we all understand that. But forgive those of us who are upset with the coach who has us watching a team that has been sleepwalking through bouts of schizophrenia all season long. We can all tell the difference between when this team is having a good game and when it's not, because the effort and give-a-**** level is evident on the ice.

The players are the one's ultimately responsible for their own play, but poorly coached teams never have success. Well coached teams play above their ability (see: Phoenix, Buffalo). If the players aren't listening to the coach, why is he even there?


Edit: there are mixed metaphors in this post. Don't let them detract from the overall point.


Last edited by Tawnos: 03-14-2010 at 11:27 PM.
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Old
03-14-2010, 11:49 PM
  #52
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If i were creating a conspiracy theory out of all this, I would argue that the "sources" Brooks is hearing all this negative stuff from are people in the organization trying to cover their own butts by getting Torts fired. The whole atmosphere surrounding this organization reminds me of the 1999-2000 season with the coach and GM trading shots in a race to get the other fired.

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03-15-2010, 12:31 AM
  #53
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Oh Brother.....

Like I said in some of my other posts, it's always about everything else but winning, and the coddling of players this organization has.

Where's the Devils players/parents trip? Oh that's right, there is none!!! They just win. And if there is one, they certainly don't glorify it, or cover it to the point where the fans have to know about it.

And as long as the garden put it's priorities of crap such as this, it's always gonna be in this order.

1. Garden Of Dreams

2. P.R Nausea

3. New York Knicks

4. New York Rangers

Last: Winning

It's time to face facts, things like this players/parents trips should'nt even be a blip on the radar screen as far as the Rangers organization is concerned. Yet for some reason it is, and for some reason the fans think this crap is good and "wonderful". "Oh we have such a great tradition, oh it's always first class here, oh The Garden knows how to put on a show".

Notice how those few thing's I just mentioned didn't include winning?

When's it gonna be about winning?!

It should be about nothing but winning.

Tortorella is right about the culture stinking here.

I'm not saying i'm against these things, or players/parents trips, but it should'nt even be covered, and it should'nt even matter, and it should'nt even be a big deal if he does take this away.

When are the Rangers or The Garden gonna concentrate on the game itself?!

I'm just tired of this utter nonsense that surrounds these/my/our team(s), or the Rangers in particular.

Also, I don't agree with everything Tortorella does, but as long as he keeps getting called out over stupid petty nonsense, i'm gonna keep defending him on this crap.


Last edited by 94Obsession: 03-15-2010 at 12:39 AM.
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Old
03-15-2010, 01:46 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by 94Obsession View Post
Where's the Devils players/parents trip? Oh that's right, there is none!!! They just win. And if there is one, they certainly don't glorify it, or cover it to the point where the fans have to know about it.
Having one is essentially a non-story. Not having one is essentially a non-story. Having one and then taking it away, that's a story. That's the difference here. That's the issue here.

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And as long as the garden put it's priorities of crap such as this, it's always gonna be in this order.

1. Garden Of Dreams

2. P.R Nausea

3. New York Knicks

4. New York Rangers

Last: Winning
Not the first time someone has made a comment like this. It's pretty ridiculous. Running the Garden of Dreams and winning are not mutually exclusive. Supporting the Garden of Dreams doesn't detract from winning. They can do both at the same time, one has nothing to do with the other, believe me. (I also found it interesting that "New York Rangers" was ranked ahead of "Winning")

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It's time to face facts, things like this players/parents trips should'nt even be a blip on the radar screen as far as the Rangers organization is concerned. Yet for some reason it is, and for some reason the fans think this crap is good and "wonderful". "Oh we have such a great tradition, oh it's always first class here, oh The Garden knows how to put on a show".

Notice how those few thing's I just mentioned didn't include winning?

When's it gonna be about winning?!

It should be about nothing but winning.
This isn't a video game. Those guys out there on the ice, they're actually people. You know, human beings. The parents' trip in and of itself is not really important. But that and other functions in the same vein are done as a means to make the players feel appreciated, and bring them together as a team, to make them feel a part of something bigger than themselves, and to cultivate some loyalty to and appreciation of the organization and the sweater they pull on every day. And when you add it all up, it matters. Anyone who has every played sports at any significant level or anyone who has ever worked in professional sports knows this is undeniably true. And in absolutely no way does this stuff have any negative effect on players' performance.

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I'm not saying i'm against these things, or players/parents trips, but it should'nt even be covered, and it should'nt even matter, and it should'nt even be a big deal if he does take this away.
Shouldn't.

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When are the Rangers or The Garden gonna concentrate on the game itself?!
Again, this has absolutely no effect on their ability to win games. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

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Old
03-15-2010, 02:18 AM
  #55
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The amount of heat Torts is getting is becoming ridiculous. Seriously? Are we still on the cancelled parents w/ the team thing? Let it go already.

It's like a kid who misses 1 point to pass and goes to summer school w/out walking in front of their parents on graduation day. Let him work harder and he'll earn that moment.

Same goes w/ this team. We have far more important stuff to worry about then parents being w/ the team or not. Larry Brooks is quickly losing the credibility he has/had/didn't have? lol.

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Old
03-15-2010, 02:38 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Kind of Blue View Post
Having one is essentially a non-story. Not having one is essentially a non-story. Having one and then taking it away, that's a story. That's the difference here. That's the issue here.


Not the first time someone has made a comment like this. It's pretty ridiculous. Running the Garden of Dreams and winning are not mutually exclusive. Supporting the Garden of Dreams doesn't detract from winning. They can do both at the same time, one has nothing to do with the other, believe me. (I also found it interesting that "New York Rangers" was ranked ahead of "Winning")


This isn't a video game. Those guys out there on the ice, they're actually people. You know, human beings. The parents' trip in and of itself is not really important. But that and other functions in the same vein are done as a means to make the players feel appreciated, and bring them together as a team, to make them feel a part of something bigger than themselves, and to cultivate some loyalty to and appreciation of the organization and the sweater they pull on every day. And when you add it all up, it matters. Anyone who has every played sports at any significant level or anyone who has ever worked in professional sports knows this is undeniably true. And in absolutely no way does this stuff have any negative effect on players' performance.


Shouldn't.


Again, this has absolutely no effect on their ability to win games. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.
My whole point is that they make this P.R nonsense more important than winning. I NEVER said they have anything to do with each other. I'm saying they make that a priority over winning, or putting out a winning product on the ice. Not saying it has anything to do with winning at all.

When I put the Rangers ahead of winning, my point there is that, they're more interested in hyping the team or organization up, and talking about how they're original six, and how much they pimp the past or past players so much. I love 1994 as much as anyone else, and maybe i'm too obsessed with that year, but i'm tired of having nothing but 1994 to fall back on, and it lasting a lifetime anymore, it's always gonna be there, why can't we have something else, or another Stanley Cup?! We're so far off, it's ridiculous. I don't even know if most Rangers fans even realize how far off we are. If they win a Stanley Cup within the next 3 years, i'll gladly be here to eat my words.

The players should feel appreciated by their fricking contracts and money that they make.

And I never said it has an effect on their ability to win games. Maybe you just don't get it, or get what i'm trying to say? I know what I see, and I go to enough games as it is, sitting up there with a lot of other people that are sick of the very same things I am. I actually saw a video on gardenvision recently waiting for the teams coming out for warmups, and they played this Garden Of Dreams video promoting it. Ok, have no problem with that, but while the guy who's in charge of the Garden Of Dreams was on there talking about it, he said something like "i'm proud to announce that the Garden Of Dreams is the most important thing we do here at the Garden". I was just thinking to myself "what about winning, or putting out a constant winner out there?"

I NEVER said any of the thing's I mentioned in my original post has anything to do with one another, or winning.

I was just saying how winning isn't number 1 on their priority list, and if it is, they do a pretty crappy job showing it.

Just trying to clear that up.

All I know is that we're all dying for a constant winner.

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Old
03-15-2010, 03:23 AM
  #57
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Is this kindergarten or is it an effing hockey club?! This Brooksie really starts p*ssing me off with his childish bullcrap bit*hing against Torts. What's next? Is he whining because Torts banned chocolate from the locker room? Uuuuuh, bad bad Torts!

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03-15-2010, 07:31 AM
  #58
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God I hate Brooks

Quote:
That's not to suggest that Avery didn't belong in Friday's game in Atlanta instead of watching it in street clothes after being scratched by head coach John Torto rella. The knee-jerk reaction would be to credit yester day to a cause-and-effect, but that would require a bout of amnesia to erase memories of the last three seasons.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...jTBbZd695qb93M
His personal agenda against Torts is ridiculous, even if you don't like someone you can admit that they made a good descision

Avery played like garbage, got a wake up call, then played a great game

no need to take little shots at Torts in this article

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03-15-2010, 08:06 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
God I hate Brooks



His personal agenda against Torts is ridiculous, even if you don't like someone you can admit that they made a good descision

Avery played like garbage, got a wake up call, then played a great game

no need to take little shots at Torts in this article

I couldn't agree more. I cant stand reading anything from Brooks anymore. He is way to negative. I really can careless about the player/parents trip, just write about hockey and stop bad mouthing Torts with every chance you get.

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Old
03-15-2010, 10:01 AM
  #60
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Why is this such a big deal?

The focus should be on the ice, which is part of the problem with this team from the top on down.

There could be 1,000 reasons why this event was cancelled, Brooks is looking for anything to put on Torts. Its getting really old. If Brooks had some balls he would go after Sather and Dolan like hes going after Tortorella. Lets see that happen. Hes going after an easy target becuase Tortorella doesnt have the power to ban him from entering the Garden and attending the media events.


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Old
03-15-2010, 10:24 AM
  #61
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Mother-Father involvement in team is not fair to Euro players. Their parents are not readily available to entertain fans and the team. Don't those fathers have jobs? Or they quit and leave on MSG pay out?

All being said, Torts is in trouble. He may not be a schmuck, but he sure looks like one. Don't pick up the fight with writers, they are supposed to outlive you here and they sure will. His departure is sooner than anyone thinks.

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03-15-2010, 10:28 AM
  #62
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Not to sound like an idiot. But if the players really felt strongly about this trip couldnt they just take there millions of dollars and buy their parents tickets to the games and plane tickets to travel to and from the games??

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Old
03-15-2010, 10:59 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by 94Obsession View Post
My whole point is that they make this P.R nonsense more important than winning. I NEVER said they have anything to do with each other. I'm saying they make that a priority over winning, or putting out a winning product on the ice. Not saying it has anything to do with winning at all.
If it has nothing to do within their ability to win... why do you even care then?

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The players should feel appreciated by their fricking contracts and money that they make.
There's no good business that thinks that way of their employees.

Quote:
And I never said it has an effect on their ability to win games. Maybe you just don't get it, or get what i'm trying to say? I know what I see, and I go to enough games as it is, sitting up there with a lot of other people that are sick of the very same things I am. I actually saw a video on gardenvision recently waiting for the teams coming out for warmups, and they played this Garden Of Dreams video promoting it. Ok, have no problem with that, but while the guy who's in charge of the Garden Of Dreams was on there talking about it, he said something like "i'm proud to announce that the Garden Of Dreams is the most important thing we do here at the Garden". I was just thinking to myself "what about winning, or putting out a constant winner out there?"
Look at the quote you referenced -- "the most important thing we do here at the Garden". "We" as in that guy and the other people who are employed by the Garden not as Knicks and Rangers players and personnel. The Garden employs a lot of people who have nothing to do with the teams, but with the operation of the Garden. So, maybe that is the most important thing they do -- because nothing they do affects the Rangers in any way. They're not implying the the most important thing Glen Sather or John Tortorella or Chris Drury do is the Garden of Dreams.

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Old
03-15-2010, 11:58 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Hes going after an easy target becuase Tortorella doesnt have the power to ban him from entering the Garden and attending the media events.
Press cannot be banned, Torts or whoever. This is not Iran. Tortorella is an easy target because he acts like a schmuck. Those are always an easy targets. Rangers must make the playoffs to eliminate Brooks upper-hand in this fight.
Brooks warned Torts that if he remains secretive he would speculate about him and his team. He does just that. His articles is the only news about Rangers, the rest is known by most at this time. That is Rangers are once again an embarrassment.

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03-15-2010, 12:06 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Press cannot be banned, Torts or whoever. This is not Iran. Tortorella is an easy target because he acts like a schmuck. Those are always an easy targets. Rangers must make the playoffs to eliminate Brooks upper-hand in this fight.
Brooks warned Torts that if he remains secretive he would speculate about him and his team. He does just that. His articles is the only news about Rangers, the rest is known by most at this time. That is Rangers are once again an embarrassment.
Sure they can. It's a private facility, and media members require press credentials.

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03-15-2010, 01:20 PM
  #66
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Sure they can. It's a private facility, and media members require press credentials.
Brooks represents leading media outlet in NYC. His press credentials say that. New York Post cannot be banned, that is out of question. Thus, Brooks must be let in. If MSG wants Brooks not to bother anyone of his employees, particularly John Tortorella, they may negotiate with Post on his replacement. Up until then banning Brooks means banning Post which is the sufficient substance of political scandal in free society such as ours. Dolan had enough scandals of late, he doesn't value Torts as much as his calm.
Torts has the right not to answer a question. He once did just that. That made Brooks the door that will hit him on his way out.

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03-15-2010, 01:31 PM
  #67
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Brooks represents leading media outlet in NYC. His press credentials say that. New York Post cannot be banned, that is out of question. Thus, Brooks must be let in. If MSG wants Brooks not to bother anyone of his employees, particularly John Tortorella, they may negotiate with Post on his replacement. Up until then banning Brooks means banning Post which is the sufficient substance of political scandal in free society such as ours. Dolan had enough scandals of late, he doesn't value Torts as much as his calm.
Torts has the right not to answer a question. He once did just that. That made Brooks the door that will hit him on his way out.
I'm pretty sure we've argued about this before....

Anyway, MSG can ban anyone they want. If they want to ban all NY POST reporters? Sure, they certainly can. It's not practical, but it's well within their rights.

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03-15-2010, 01:34 PM
  #68
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No one has let the players off the hook here. In fact, if you read what many of us are saying in criticism of Tortorella here, we aren't doing that at all. There are plenty of threads complaining about players on this board. This thread is about the coach.

And are you really, at all satisfied with the way Tortorella has handled the part I bolded out in your post? That is also minimizing what the coach does. He's also supposed to managed their personalities. That's not hand-holding. It's the coaches job to maximize results with the roster he has. Good coaches do that. The Rangers got the fifth seed and into the 2nd round on an only slightly more talented roster two years ago. How did they do that? They were getting better coaching than they are today. Yes, Jagr was pissed and yes, the defense was more experienced. That doesn't change the fact that the coach was responsible for the work ethic and structure of that team.

For three years we saw a well-coached group play hockey that we could be proud of as Rangers fans because of their work ethic and their care for each other as teammates. Last year was a transition year, we all understand that. But forgive those of us who are upset with the coach who has us watching a team that has been sleepwalking through bouts of schizophrenia all season long. We can all tell the difference between when this team is having a good game and when it's not, because the effort and give-a-**** level is evident on the ice.

The players are the one's ultimately responsible for their own play, but poorly coached teams never have success. Well coached teams play above their ability (see: Phoenix, Buffalo). If the players aren't listening to the coach, why is he even there?


Edit: there are mixed metaphors in this post. Don't let them detract from the overall point.
I see where you're coming from, I guess its a difference of opinion. Poor coached teams never have success, true, but this coach has reached literally the pinnacle of success in this league. Yes, it was a different team, yes they had more secondary scoring and a legit offensive D man, but they were playing above their ability with this same coach, no? You don't win the cup not playing above your ability, even the best teams need to pull out some magic to win, look at last year.

I am partly satisfied with the way Torts has handed this team's strategy, lines, etc. I'm not totally satisfied by any means but I think that this team, when they are on, which is admittedly not every night, is very fun to watch, more fun than when Renney's team was playing well. Recently, he seems to be getting smarter also, yes its late, but its not too late. Dru is in front of the net on the PP, the top line hasn't changed in a few games and the guys have been playing harder than usual with more consistency.

I think the disconnect here is that I put a lot more stock into the thought that, "the players are the one's ultimately responsible for their own play." I just don't see why these guys who make a ton of money to play a game that they have played in some cases for 20+ years need to rely on another grown man to tell them to try.

I agree with you on a lot of points, I'm surely leaving out some parts of the coach's job and you absolutely have a right to be upset with the coach and the team overall after this season's play. I can agree to disagree regarding what level of responsibility rests on a coach in terms of getting a team to try every night, but on stuff like riding on the bus to NJ and possibly not organizing the parents game, I think Torts is in the right. Also, nobody seems to mention Torts' successes, he promoted Prust who said he'd never been promoted before, that in Calgary they told him he was a fourth line guy no matter what, that's handling a players personality for the best. Prust has been physical, he's been chipping in some assists, he deserved to be promoted, he was and he's proud and more confident. He benched Avery, then Avery won us the next game, we can argue until the end of time that it was or wasn't causal, but I see some A to B logic there and again, that's knowing his players' personalities and using that knowledge to get the most out of them.

He's not Lindy Ruff, but Lindy wasn't an option for this team, Torts was. I don't think he's nearly the catastrophe that stories like this one paint him to be. There are better coaches in the league, no doubt, but I'm not sure that there were better coaches who were actually options for this team when the change was made.

Lastly, you may not let the players off the hook and the forum as a whole may not, but a lot of people do. The feeling that Torts is ultimately responsible for this team's problems is out there and stories like this try (sadly, with some success) to support it.

Don't sweat the mixed metaphors, I can't stand when people try to negate other's arguments because of that stuff and I'm sure I throw them in also.

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03-15-2010, 02:24 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Why does every thread about every idiotic Brooks' story turn into everyone blaming Torts for all of this team's problems?
Perhaps Sather is paying Brooks for these articles in order to divert attention away from the real problem.

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03-15-2010, 05:38 PM
  #70
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It must be stated yet again for those who seem to be having difficulty understanding it: coaching is much, much more than designing strategies, changing and matching lines, running practices, etc,

Much, much, more. A computer program can change lines and design game plans. Wait, that's a video game.

A successful coach (just as a successful manager in a business setting, a successful administrator in school, a successful teacher dealing with the group dynamics of a classroom, a military officer, etc.) has always been a leader of men (and women).

A successful coach must be a keen student of human psychology and understands what makes people tick. Just as there is no one way to do this (compare Joe Torre to Bill Parcells, for example), a successful coach understands that no two players at the same and each must be motivated to perform at their best for the benefit of the team in different ways.

What it comes down to is this: who would you want as your coach; someone who treats you like a man, or a child?

Don't get me wrong: though I might not think Torts has done a good job, as a 50 year Ranger fan (that's since about 1960 folks), I want him desperately to do well. This is my team and I live and die with them. Though I was a big Renney fan, largely because of his ability to handle group dynamics, I understood the need for a change and was looking forward to the Rangers taking on Tort's fiery personality. They were a low key group last year and remain so. They needed a push. For whatever reason, Torts has failed: the players have not bought into his vision, not absorbed his personality, or (except occasionally) played with passion. The player's fault? Oh, certainly. Has Torts had a positive influence? no way.

There was absolutely no reason (if he was indeed responsible) for the cancellation of the father/son trip. This is becoming part of the culture in the NHL. Lots of teams do it. It should have nothing to do with on ice performance. Its not a reward ("if you're good I'll buy you ice cream") accept for maybe the fathers. Believe me, I've been a hockey dad, gotten up at 3 AM Sunday morning to take my son to the rink so he could be on the ice by 5AM. When I saw the fathers at Ranger games over the last few years, it brought chills to my body. This is hockey.

For Torts to cancel it because of the poor performance on the team (and why should everyone suffer for the few?) was childish. Think of the most unfair thing a teacher ever did to a class you were in. Make you stay after school, write 500X "I will not, etc, etc, etc," give the entire class a punishment assignment.Think how you felt. Yes you were children and these are men, but handling men on and off the ice is the job of a coach. Off ice stuff is at least 50% of the job, if not more.

Did this help team moral or hurt it? Did it make the team play harder? Hurt, absolutely; work harder, no way!

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Old
03-15-2010, 06:27 PM
  #71
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teams go through coaching cycles, its just the nature of the beast.

********* coach, nice guy coach, ********* coach, nice guy coach, ********* coach, nice guy coach, ********* coach, nice guy coach, ********* coach, nice guy coach, etc

that's just how they do things. players tune one style out, then the other, then the other, and so on. Yankees won with Torres laid back grandpa approach, and they won with a bit more of an intense task master in Girardi. IMHO both are good coaches, (but I still think Girardi is better, FWIW), to me it's all about strategy more than the aspect of their personality thats important, because, like i said, those things tend to get tuned out by the players regardless. Torts wants his players to be more aggressive, to play well, and has no problems sitting his vets when they dont. Renney didnt sans Nylander. To me that still is what I want in a coach. Torts isnt perfect, his line combinations and constant tinkering pisses me off, but the rest of what he brings to the table, I am very very pleased with.

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Old
03-15-2010, 08:47 PM
  #72
nyrmetros
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Hire Renney.

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03-15-2010, 09:39 PM
  #73
Tom Atkins
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Originally Posted by nyrmetros View Post
Hire Renney.
to replace Brooks as the Rangers beat writer?

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Old
03-15-2010, 09:47 PM
  #74
Tawnos
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
I think the disconnect here is that I put a lot more stock into the thought that, "the players are the one's ultimately responsible for their own play." I just don't see why these guys who make a ton of money to play a game that they have played in some cases for 20+ years need to rely on another grown man to tell them to try.

I agree with you on a lot of points, I'm surely leaving out some parts of the coach's job and you absolutely have a right to be upset with the coach and the team overall after this season's play. I can agree to disagree regarding what level of responsibility rests on a coach in terms of getting a team to try every night, but on stuff like riding on the bus to NJ and possibly not organizing the parents game, I think Torts is in the right. Also, nobody seems to mention Torts' successes, he promoted Prust who said he'd never been promoted before, that in Calgary they told him he was a fourth line guy no matter what, that's handling a players personality for the best. Prust has been physical, he's been chipping in some assists, he deserved to be promoted, he was and he's proud and more confident. He benched Avery, then Avery won us the next game, we can argue until the end of time that it was or wasn't causal, but I see some A to B logic there and again, that's knowing his players' personalities and using that knowledge to get the most out of them.
First off, thank you for the rational response.

I will clarify a couple of things, from my point of view, in regards to the two paragraphs I quoted.

Good leaders don't tell their group to give it their all and to work hard. Good leaders generally get that out of their groups without saying such things out loud. It shouldn't be necessary to tell them to work hard, although it may be necessary to light a fire sometimes. It's a fine line and, as a manager of people, a very difficult one to walk. I just don't get any sense that Tortorella even bothers with it. That can be fine in the right situation, but it doesn't seem to be working.

About Avery: Tortorella made a very smart move there, no doubt about it. But this is the thing, we've never really seen evidence of him knowing how to try to motivate in any other fashion besides benching. I'm fine with disciplining players, but there's a point in which it loses effectiveness if it's only done in one way.

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Old
03-15-2010, 10:18 PM
  #75
Dagoon44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
The amount of heat Torts is getting is becoming ridiculous. Seriously? Are we still on the cancelled parents w/ the team thing? Let it go already.

It's like a kid who misses 1 point to pass and goes to summer school w/out walking in front of their parents on graduation day. Let him work harder and he'll earn that moment.

Same goes w/ this team. We have far more important stuff to worry about then parents being w/ the team or not. Larry Brooks is quickly losing the credibility he has/had/didn't have? lol.
excuse me John but when did the coach of the Rangers get so much free time to post here. Your love for Torts is odd

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