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The highest paid role player in NHL history

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Old
03-15-2010, 01:37 PM
  #26
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you can argue that his past play might have earned him his ridiculas salary (which I still can't agree on) but there was still no reason to sign him through 2014. Doesn't make any sense. That is just a product of him being the first pick in Preds history.

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03-15-2010, 01:47 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by jlsg View Post
He has probably won us 8-10 games this year .
That's as subjective of a statement as I've ever heard! Yes, I'm done resisting.

Here's the thing, many Pred fans defend Legwand like he's their first born child. Because in a way, he was the first-born Predator.

If he was the best defensive forward in the NHL, like you are suggesting, do you think he would have at least gotten an invite to Team USA training camp? Especially with DP as assistant GM. That should give you an idea of how other GMs view his skill set.

I don't think Legwand is the most overpaid player in history, but sure, he's overpaid. I doubt he'd get more than 3m on the open market if he was UFA. Madden got 2.75 last year; Brendan Morrison 1.5. My guess is Legwand would get 2.5.

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03-15-2010, 02:00 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
I don't think Legwand is the most overpaid player in history, but sure, he's overpaid. I doubt he'd get more than 3m on the open market if he was UFA. Madden got 2.75 last year; Brendan Morrison 1.5. My guess is Legwand would get 2.5.
Madden is 37, Morrisson is 35, Legwand is 29. I don't view those as a reasonable comparable due to the age difference. Legwand would still make more than both of those players and get a multi-year deal if he were to become a free agent today.

Legwand is the most maligned player in this franchise's history due to his draft position and the expectations heaped upon him jading people's view. He has not turned out to be the player that was hyped, but certainly has carved out a career as a key cog for the Predators franchise and would have many teams jumping at the chance to acquire him if he became available...

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03-15-2010, 02:12 PM
  #29
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Ok, since the door is wide open let's look at a few stats that you've presented.

Madden first. 36 years old. 10g/12a in 65 games with a +1. Two best seasons of 43 and 41 points. Career +/- of +36. 16 PP in his 10 year career. 27 short handed points. 19 game winning goals.

Morrison next. 34 years old. 11g/25a in 67 games with a +18. Best seasons of 67 and 71 points. Career +/- of +73. Excellent PP totals with Vancouver and for his career. 12 short handed points. 41 game winning goals.

Legwand now. 29 years old. 10g/25a in 69 games with a -1. Two best seasons of 63 and 48 points. Career +/- of +21. Good PP totals as well over his career. Not exceptional but not bad either. 12 short handed points. 32 game winning goals.

Morrison gets to play on an explosive Washington team this year. He was dropped by a few teams before landing there because of some injuries the past few years. When on his game and healthy, he's a very good player and would command more salary than he's getting now. Madden at his age, is overpaid IMO. He is not the same shutdown center he was a few years but they paid a price to bring him to Chicago for his leadership, d and experience. His number don't justify the contract he got.

Legwand is overpaid compared to Morrison for sure but Legwand's best season came when he had good skill players on his line. Put Morrison on a line with Ward and Smithson and see what their numbers will be. Also, Legwand's PP time over the years has never been consistent. He'll go stretches of not getting minutes and then Trotz will decide to get him out there. If he was consistently given skilled linemates and PP time, his salary wouldn't be an issue. Because the coach is using him inappropriately should be the issue here, not his lack of offensive production. We all wonder why Dumont's numbers are down this year too. Well, it's a combination, he's not playing with skilled linemates anymore for the most part and not getting the minutes. Anyone notice that Wilson is producing some pretty good numbers, time+skilled linemates=production. When Legwand gets someone on his line other than Smithson, who's best career season is 16 points, then we can have this discussion again. Until then, I think it's moot to even discuss. That's just me though.

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Old
03-15-2010, 02:16 PM
  #30
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LEgwand?

Not even close. That crown rightfully belongs to the magic threesome of Drury, Horcoff and Redden.

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03-15-2010, 02:17 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by tiger_80 View Post
LEgwand?

Not even close. That crown rightfully belongs to the magic threesome of Drury, Horcoff and Redden.
Would you throw Gomez into that threesome?

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Old
03-15-2010, 02:23 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by SLake View Post
Madden is 37, Morrisson is 35, Legwand is 29. I don't view those as a reasonable comparable due to the age difference. Legwand would still make more than both of those players and get a multi-year deal if he were to become a free agent today.
In your opinion. Sure, he'd get more years. My opinion, Madden is just as serviceable as Legwand, even though he's 8 years older, and getting less ice time. He certainly plays with more assertiveness. If building a playoff team, I think 9 of 10 GMs take Madden.

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Old
03-15-2010, 02:27 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
In your opinion. Sure, he'd get more years. My opinion, Madden is just as serviceable as Legwand, even though he's 8 years older, and getting less ice time. He certainly plays with more assertiveness. If building a playoff team, I think 9 of 10 GMs take Madden.
If you had your first two lines loaded on offense like Chicago does, sure, Madden is a nice fit. What does Madden do at this point that Legwand doesn't?

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Old
03-15-2010, 02:30 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
If he was consistently given skilled linemates and PP time, his salary wouldn't be an issue.
It's not like Morrison is playing with Ovechkin.

There is a reason he's not getting top PP time and the best linemates-- because he's average offensively, at best. He's been given chance after chance to show his offensive skill.

In Lewgand's contract year, he played with more assertiveness than we've ever seen. It made him a better player. Apparently, he was doing that just to get a nice contract, because he's back to the passive, perimeter Legwand we all know. He's not living up to the contract, and it's handicapping us from making other moves. But he's not the only one not living up a contract-- Dumont being most notable other.

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03-15-2010, 02:37 PM
  #35
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I've been a Legwand supporter. But I'll admit to being intensely frustrated with the goal scoring drought and making several snide bagging on him type comments. Most of my frustration is with Trotz I suppose, but no, I don't think Legwand's had a great year. Maybe that's just not possible with his linemates. And he has played decent dee. I was very surprised by his contract, felt it was too much and too long. But if he stays healthy and we add some talent to play with him, it will pay off. In a few other markets with much bigger payrolls, he'd probably get about what he is getting.

He's a good player. I personally think he's gotten far too comfortable with the defensive role, because for awhile this year, a long while, when he'd have favorable matchups (no, he's not always out there against the top line, and some top lines don't play defense all that well) the line looked overly content to play cautiously on offense. Lately, he looks much more aggressive to me. He's hitting a lot of posts...
This

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Old
03-15-2010, 02:42 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
It's not like Morrison is playing with Ovechkin.

There is a reason he's not getting top PP time and the best linemates-- because he's average offensively, at best. He's been given chance after chance to show his offensive skill.

In Lewgand's contract year, he played with more assertiveness than we've ever seen. It made him a better player. Apparently, he was doing that just to get a nice contract, because he's back to the passive, perimeter Legwand we all know. He's not living up to the contract, and it's handicapping us from making other moves. But he's not the only one not living up a contract-- Dumont being most notable other.
Did he not show his offensive prowess when playing with Erat and Kariya for two seasons? Did he not make Andreass Johansson a 29 goal scorer?

When you say he's been given chance after chance to show his offensive skill, explain that to me. Who has he played with all year long? Smithson and Ward and when Smithson was out, Thuresson. These are not offensive juggernauts he's playing with.

He played on a line with Erat and Arnott last year and had some good numbers for his short stay before injuries depleted our lineup. Put Arnott with Ward and Smithson for a few games and see what his production becomes.

Legwand started out on an expansion team with no mentors or skill players around him whatsoever. This is probably my biggest complaint with Poile and how he built the team. If you get a talented player, get someone to mentor him. We had no players on this team with any pedigree or experience in winning. Fitzgerald and Johnson were nice role players but were not guys that Legwand was going to learn from. He stepped in and was easily more skilled than these guys. Walker became a good NHL player because of opportunity and hard work but once again, he was a guy that had to earn it. Hartnell was a kid along with Legwand. Trotz took Legwand and molded him the way he wanted him to play. He asks Legwand to produce offensively and gives him offensively challenged linemates. That's like asking Chris Johnson to produce 2000 yards next year with you and me as two of the lineman, it just ain't gonna happen.

Erat and Legwand were decent linemates but other than the seasons they were paired with Kariya, they never had a linemate to compliment their speed, puck handling and skill sets. Once again, this is a roster issue as much as it is a coaching issue. You put guys in a position to succeed or fail and while Legwand's defensive capabilities are near the top of the league, his offense suffers because of what he is forced to play with on a nightly basis.

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Old
03-15-2010, 02:51 PM
  #37
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I was shocked when I opened this and it was not about Chris Drury.

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Old
03-15-2010, 02:54 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Did he not show his offensive prowess when playing with Erat and Kariya for two seasons? Did he not make Andreass Johansson a 29 goal scorer?

When you say he's been given chance after chance to show his offensive skill, explain that to me. Who has he played with all year long? Smithson and Ward and when Smithson was out, Thuresson. These are not offensive juggernauts he's playing with.

He played on a line with Erat and Arnott last year and had some good numbers for his short stay before injuries depleted our lineup. Put Arnott with Ward and Smithson for a few games and see what his production becomes.

Legwand started out on an expansion team with no mentors or skill players around him whatsoever. This is probably my biggest complaint with Poile and how he built the team. If you get a talented player, get someone to mentor him. We had no players on this team with any pedigree or experience in winning. Fitzgerald and Johnson were nice role players but were not guys that Legwand was going to learn from. He stepped in and was easily more skilled than these guys. Walker became a good NHL player because of opportunity and hard work but once again, he was a guy that had to earn it. Hartnell was a kid along with Legwand. Trotz took Legwand and molded him the way he wanted him to play. He asks Legwand to produce offensively and gives him offensively challenged linemates. That's like asking Chris Johnson to produce 2000 yards next year with you and me as two of the lineman, it just ain't gonna happen.

Erat and Legwand were decent linemates but other than the seasons they were paired with Kariya, they never had a linemate to compliment their speed, puck handling and skill sets. Once again, this is a roster issue as much as it is a coaching issue. You put guys in a position to succeed or fail and while Legwand's defensive capabilities are near the top of the league, his offense suffers because of what he is forced to play with on a nightly basis.
I just watch him man. IMO, I've seen nothinig special offensively, from year one. And yes, he played alongside Ronning on the first line, with a ton of PP time.

He put up some OK numbers when he played alongside Kariya and Erat, getting 1st line time and a ton of PP time. But, IMO, a lot of it was default points. Just like Krivokrsov got 26 goals, and Kjellberg scored 20. They got the time, they put up some below average 1st line points.

Like I said, I gained more respect in his contract year when he was asserting himself more the offensive zone. Where has that assertiveness gone? It's one of the reasons why his contract is looking pretty bad right now.

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Old
03-15-2010, 03:30 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
That's as subjective of a statement as I've ever heard! Yes, I'm done resisting.
As subjective as saying he's the most overpaid 4th liner in the NHL
I think you'd be surprised what most GMs would be willing to pay for him. He can play on a scoring line, he can play on a shutdown line and he can play special teams. And while he may not be the top in the league in any of these categories, there aren't very many that play all of them like he can. Do I wish he were making a little less, yes no doubt. But if you want to look at overpaid on the Preds roster, he falls behind Dumont by a wide margin and behind Erat by a slightly smaller margin.

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03-15-2010, 03:34 PM
  #40
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come on guys... everyone can be a shrewd GM in retrospect...

the year Legwand got extended he had 27 goals, and appeared to be on an upward track.

there are plenty of GMs who would have signed a 27 year old 27 goal scorer to a long term deal for 4.5 mil

Poile's options(other than the deal he ended up making) were either sign him short term for about the same or probably more per year, and risk having to pay him 6-7 million if he went on and scored 30+, or else let him go for nothing as a UFA.

so far, we probably arent quite getting our moneys worth but we really arent getting gypped likethe above mentioned deald (Horcoff, etc)

here's hoping that when some of the older guys leave and some youngsters become available to be our "stopper" that leggy gets put with say, Hornqvist or Wilson and starts piling up the points again...

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03-15-2010, 04:06 PM
  #41
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I always love the "it's his linemates" excuse when anyone tries to defend Legwand. With the years of experience and the money he's making, he should be elevating his linemates play, it should not be used as an excuse.

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03-15-2010, 04:17 PM
  #42
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I always love the "it's his linemates" excuse when anyone tries to defend Legwand. With the years of experience and the money he's making, he should be elevating his linemates play, it should not be used as an excuse.
you really think even Crosby could elevate Stone Hands Smithsons game??

its not an excuse, its just a statement of fact. If Legwand eventually is put on a line tasked primarily with scoring and populated with offensively skilled players, his numbers will look better.

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03-15-2010, 04:24 PM
  #43
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you really think even Crosby could elevate Stone Hands Smithsons game??

its not an excuse, its just a statement of fact. If Legwand eventually is put on a line tasked primarily with scoring and populated with offensively skilled players, his numbers will look better.
Legwand has not been with Smithson all year. He was put with Smithson when others (Goc, Erat, Hornquist) were doing a better job of creating offense.

This thread has extremes. You got people saying Legwand is the most overpaid player in history, and others saying Legwand has single handily won us 10 games this year.

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Old
03-15-2010, 04:29 PM
  #44
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Legwand has not been with Smithson all year. He was put with Smithson when others (Goc, Erat, Hornquist) were doing a better job of creating offense.
someone correct me but I believe he's been with Smithson and Ward since about november, and that was actually because Erat got "demoted" and then started clicking with his new linemates.

Im just saying, you werent going to get Legwand to re-up when he did for anything ;less than 4.5... and so if Poile had let Legwand walk, and he'd gone elsewhere and continued to score in the upper 20's to 30'd, you same people would be calling poile an idiot for not re-signing him...

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03-15-2010, 04:31 PM
  #45
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Id have to say Lucic hahahahaa

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03-15-2010, 04:35 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Legwand has not been with Smithson all year. He was put with Smithson when others (Goc, Erat, Hornquist) were doing a better job of creating offense.

This thread has extremes. You got people saying Legwand is the most overpaid player in history, and others saying Legwand has single handily won us 10 games this year.

the only time he wasn't with smithson and ward was when smithson was hurt. dec 22nd - jan 18. but even then it was legwand-ward-santorelli/o'reilly i think

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Old
03-15-2010, 04:41 PM
  #47
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the bottom line is, no matter who is 'right" or "wrong" we have Legwand and his contract for another 3 years. if he sucks like you haters say, then nobody is going to be dumb enough to take him off our hands.

so, given those facts, isnt it prudent to use him in whatever role will be most effective? would you rather have him continue to struggle as an offensive minded player and give up his defense, or just accept that we are getting the best we can out of the deal?

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03-15-2010, 04:42 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
someone correct me but I believe he's been with Smithson and Ward since about november, and that was actually because Erat got "demoted" and then started clicking with his new linemates.

Im just saying, you werent going to get Legwand to re-up when he did for anything ;less than 4.5... and so if Poile had let Legwand walk, and he'd gone elsewhere and continued to score in the upper 20's to 30'd, you same people would be calling poile an idiot for not re-signing him...
Honestly, I think it'd been very interesting if Legwand had gone elsewhere-- and we could settle this debate once and for all.

Sure, it's easier to look in retrospect. But, that's where the good and bad are separated. In retrospect, many of Poile's moves the last few years are not looking great (lewgand 4.5, dumont 4.0, forseberg, witt). In retrospect, Phx has made some great moves the last couple of years (Bryz on waviers, Upshall for a fighter, Vrbata for a bag of pucks, etc), which has put them in a good position this year, and going forward. I also admire that they had the b*** to say Peter Mueller isn't working out the way we anticipated, we're going to make a change, and get some value for him.


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03-15-2010, 04:54 PM
  #49
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the bottom line is, no matter who is 'right" or "wrong" we have Legwand and his contract for another 3 years. if he sucks like you haters say, then nobody is going to be dumb enough to take him off our hands.

so, given those facts, isnt it prudent to use him in whatever role will be most effective? would you rather have him continue to struggle as an offensive minded player and give up his defense, or just accept that we are getting the best we can out of the deal?
The role that is most effective is not on the PP, and I feel like the coaching staff feels as though he should be on the PP because he is the HIGHEST PAID player on the team.

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03-15-2010, 05:11 PM
  #50
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The role that is most effective is not on the PP, and I feel like the coaching staff feels as though he should be on the PP because he is the HIGHEST PAID player on the team.
Well who would you put on the 2nd powerplay unit as a center, Dustin Boyd who just arrived or Marcel Goc who is pretty much the exact player Legwand is with less offense? Also the highest paid player on the team is Martin Erat.

I think Legwand is overpaid, but not by too much, every year people say players are overpaid and then the next year a new crop is overpaid. Legwand should be making 3.5-4m per year and if you can find truly comparable cases of a player in their prime signing then some arguements could be made but this is silly right now.

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