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When is it OK to hit a guy to send a message.

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Old
03-15-2010, 06:29 PM
  #1
10 ft. pole
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When is it OK to hit a guy to send a message.

I play in a weekly pickup. We have a pretty wide range of skill showing up. Play has gotten really chippy the last few months and there are some repeat offenders. I have been making a few statement hits the last couple weeks due to guys chirping, and crosschecking in front of the net, and boarding me.

Last night I crushed this dude with a hipcheck who had been crosschecking me all night in front of the net. His body crumbled and his stick went flying. Later on in the game he boarded me in our zone pretty good. The very next shift I went into the boards by my teams bench and could have put him over the boards and into the bench area but, I let up and just gave him a bump to seperate him from the puck.

Other players have been doing the same and our scrimmage is starting to get alot of guys looking for payback. It is kind of taking the fun out of the game. We have no refs and no faceoffs or penalties called. We pretty much police ourselves but some of the guys get away with alot of hacking and dirty play. If we hit them they would be seriously hurt due to their lack of being solid on their skates. How do you poilce a guy who you really shouldn't hit? Most of us who went cage/visorless are now sporting visors due to sticks getting up and what not.

Things just seem to be escalating really fast. Have any of you guys ever had this happen. We don't mind the physical play but we want to get the anomosity and the dirty crap out of our game. Any suggetions?

PS: I kind of wished I would have sent that a-hole over the boards last night when I woke up with a stiff back and bruises all over this morning.

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Old
03-15-2010, 06:47 PM
  #2
roaddogg02316
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Originally Posted by 10 ft. pole View Post
I play in a weekly pickup. We have a pretty wide range of skill showing up. Play has gotten really chippy the last few months and there are some repeat offenders. I have been making a few statement hits the last couple weeks due to guys chirping, and crosschecking in front of the net, and boarding me.

Last night I crushed this dude with a hipcheck who had been crosschecking me all night in front of the net. His body crumbled and his stick went flying. Later on in the game he boarded me in our zone pretty good. The very next shift I went into the boards by my teams bench and could have put him over the boards and into the bench area but, I let up and just gave him a bump to seperate him from the puck.

Other players have been doing the same and our scrimmage is starting to get alot of guys looking for payback. It is kind of taking the fun out of the game. We have no refs and no faceoffs or penalties called. We pretty much police ourselves but some of the guys get away with alot of hacking and dirty play. If we hit them they would be seriously hurt due to their lack of being solid on their skates. How do you poilce a guy who you really shouldn't hit? Most of us who went cage/visorless are now sporting visors due to sticks getting up and what not.

Things just seem to be escalating really fast. Have any of you guys ever had this happen. We don't mind the physical play but we want to get the anomosity and the dirty crap out of our game. Any suggetions?

PS: I kind of wished I would have sent that a-hole over the boards last night when I woke up with a stiff back and bruises all over this morning.
Bring it up with your buddies who play. See if they feel the same way. Because I'm sure if you just on your own said something that you would get chirped at pretty bad. If your only playing for fun sure hitting is ok, but some of the dirty stuff aint worth it. Or ya can always bring fighting into your games, just make sure it don't get ya thrown out of the rink or something. Thats how the pros settle issues so I don't see why not even in pickup games. Except it probably don't look good to show up to work with a beat up face.

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Old
03-15-2010, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 ft. pole View Post
Things just seem to be escalating really fast. Have any of you guys ever had this happen. We don't mind the physical play but we want to get the anomosity and the dirty crap out of our game. Any suggetions?.
Some guys will never realize that they are playing pick-up hockey, where nice skill plays should be the objective. I would just start chirping, but it sounds like you or someone else is gonna see a fight pretty soon.

I play on a college club team who (unfortunately) has to play in a bar-league. There's no hitting, but the old guys get pissed when we use our bodies to shield the puck, which turns into them hacking. They also get mad when we can skate around them due to the pure fact that we're in better shape.

Every year we have a couple of scraps because you just gotta put up with it. Talk to your buddies that you play with and see what they think as well, just to make sure you're not alone on the issue.

I would love to play regular hitting hockey again, but I know without refs it would get out of control so quickly.

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Old
03-15-2010, 07:14 PM
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Quick answer: NEVER.

You're playing in a non-organized recreational hockey game. What you need to do is stand up in the locker room and help the group address the issues like adults. "sending a message" is not going to solve any problems. By doing so, you open up the opportunity for severe injury, not to mention potential legal liability (implicit consent does not include some yahoo deliberately taking you out in the middle of the game, especially at this level).

I agree with the poster who said that the kind of hockey you play is a skill game. The fact that the words "sending a message" would even come into your mind suggests a seriously problem with the tone of your weekly games. Playing with no refs, offsides, or penalties is about exercise, comraderie, and good times enjoying a great sport. Would you consider it appropriate to get even with a guy on an outdoor rink? Never. Same applies to a bunch of guys playing pick up once a week.

No one is a hero, especially you; these problems need to be addressed properly and in a gentlemanly way. Everyone has to wake up the next day and go to work or school, and no one should have to worry about cheap shots.

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03-15-2010, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jwise514 View Post
Quick answer: NEVER.

You're playing in a non-organized recreational hockey game. What you need to do is stand up in the locker room and help the group address the issues like adults. "sending a message" is not going to solve any problems. By doing so, you open up the opportunity for severe injury, not to mention potential legal liability (implicit consent does not include some yahoo deliberately taking you out in the middle of the game, especially at this level).

I agree with the poster who said that the kind of hockey you play is a skill game. The fact that the words "sending a message" would even come into your mind suggests a seriously problem with the tone of your weekly games. Playing with no refs, offsides, or penalties is about exercise, comraderie, and good times enjoying a great sport. Would you consider it appropriate to get even with a guy on an outdoor rink? Never. Same applies to a bunch of guys playing pick up once a week.

No one is a hero, especially you; these problems need to be addressed properly and in a gentlemanly way. Everyone has to wake up the next day and go to work or school, and no one should have to worry about cheap shots.
+1

Add that I would bet money that most players on both teams think the same way, though bias being bias they wouldn't agree exactly.

At best, the "message" you send would make the "yahoos" on the other team feel justified in their actions.

Better just to talk..."hey guys, do we need to hire refs?...or can we tone this down, have fun, and save that money for icetime?"

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Old
03-15-2010, 07:54 PM
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Id agree that bringing it up verbally in the locker room is the way to go. If you just keep sending them, "messages" by doing harder and harder hits, its just going to continue to escalate.

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Old
03-15-2010, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwise514 View Post
Quick answer: NEVER.

You're playing in a non-organized recreational hockey game. What you need to do is stand up in the locker room and help the group address the issues like adults. "sending a message" is not going to solve any problems. By doing so, you open up the opportunity for severe injury, not to mention potential legal liability (implicit consent does not include some yahoo deliberately taking you out in the middle of the game, especially at this level).
I assume everyone chips in for the rink rental ?

In a league, you smoke them. Just for fun, you tell them to tone it down, or don't bother showing up.

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Old
03-15-2010, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 ft. pole View Post
I play in a weekly pickup. We have a pretty wide range of skill showing up. Play has gotten really chippy the last few months and there are some repeat offenders. I have been making a few statement hits the last couple weeks due to guys chirping, and crosschecking in front of the net, and boarding me.

Last night I crushed this dude with a hipcheck who had been crosschecking me all night in front of the net. His body crumbled and his stick went flying. Later on in the game he boarded me in our zone pretty good. The very next shift I went into the boards by my teams bench and could have put him over the boards and into the bench area but, I let up and just gave him a bump to seperate him from the puck.

Other players have been doing the same and our scrimmage is starting to get alot of guys looking for payback. It is kind of taking the fun out of the game. We have no refs and no faceoffs or penalties called. We pretty much police ourselves but some of the guys get away with alot of hacking and dirty play. If we hit them they would be seriously hurt due to their lack of being solid on their skates. How do you poilce a guy who you really shouldn't hit? Most of us who went cage/visorless are now sporting visors due to sticks getting up and what not.

Things just seem to be escalating really fast. Have any of you guys ever had this happen. We don't mind the physical play but we want to get the anomosity and the dirty crap out of our game. Any suggetions?

PS: I kind of wished I would have sent that a-hole over the boards last night when I woke up with a stiff back and bruises all over this morning.
Unfortunately you will never get away from it no matter who you play with. There is an old saying which sadly is true "Why is there always at least ONE ******* in the crowd" it applies to most everything.

I don't have much of an issue because I am a big guy and I just get in someone's face about it quickly. I usually remind them if they want to play like I'll go throw my shoulder pads on so they can keep their head up the rest of the night with a comment like "hey I can hit too okay, you want it that way let me know first so I can hit YOU first the next time".

Then I talk to the guy renting the ice and let them know they should talk with that guy or not invite him back again.

usually the guy renting the ice can take care of things much faster by not having them back again. Sometimes it isn't easy to take care of it for them either. The guy may be a good friend of his and may just ask him to tone it down.

Some guys just play with a temper and need an ass kicking.

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Old
03-15-2010, 11:04 PM
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Im gonna try and see if we can get a ref and just take up a collection amongst the boys. Maybe that will help. If it doesn't work me and a couple of buddies are just going to hit up the mens league. I usually am able to keep people off me. Most guys just don't like gettting hit. The other thing that might help is just hitting some of the crappy players and holding them accountable for their sticks and lack of control and running guys. It's not nice but, new players have to learn somehow.

To some of the guys saying pick up is all about skill and appreciating those parts of the game I disagree. Body contact, seperating A man from the puck, and grinding out goals are just as big of a part of the game as fancy dangling. Deflecting a point shot and sloppy rebound goals might not be sexy but, they'll get your blood pumping all the same.

Either way you are playing the game a high stick to the face is gonna piss either player off. Let's keep this going though we are gettng some great stuff here.

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Old
03-16-2010, 12:58 AM
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Is it open pick up or are you the organizer?

If you're the organizer and a guy is doing that, tell him to find a new place to play hockey. We've had a few cases at my old Saturday night hockey where some guys had to be asked to go home... but to be fair, the guys that play there all whine about accidental contact. It's gotten to the point where nobody will play the man along the boards

Conversely, my work group plays full out hockey. We more or less play full contact hockey (no blatant attempts to injure) and nobody makes apologies for accidental contact or hitting a guy with a puck. Basically you'll get filled in if you don't keep your head up or pay attention near the boards.


...the point I'm trying to make is that there are pickup groups that accomodate to all styles of hockey. If you're the odd man out in a group, find a new place to play. If other people are the odd ones out and are creating problems, tell them to tone it down or hit the road.

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Old
03-16-2010, 01:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 ft. pole View Post
Im gonna try and see if we can get a ref and just take up a collection amongst the boys. Maybe that will help. If it doesn't work me and a couple of buddies are just going to hit up the mens league. I usually am able to keep people off me. Most guys just don't like gettting hit. The other thing that might help is just hitting some of the crappy players and holding them accountable for their sticks and lack of control and running guys. It's not nice but, new players have to learn somehow.

To some of the guys saying pick up is all about skill and appreciating those parts of the game I disagree. Body contact, seperating A man from the puck, and grinding out goals are just as big of a part of the game as fancy dangling. Deflecting a point shot and sloppy rebound goals might not be sexy but, they'll get your blood pumping all the same.

Either way you are playing the game a high stick to the face is gonna piss either player off. Let's keep this going though we are gettng some great stuff here.
All that stuff you mentioned is part of playing a skilled game of hockey, even the dirty goals and using your body for D.

Escalating the physicality for the purposes of intimidation and message-sending is not part of the game at this level. You can fight fire with fire if you want, but everybody is just gonna end up burnt out with the ********. Get everybody together in the locker room. It sounds like you're a guilty party as much as anybody, so you can use yourself as an example with out pointing fingers and say "hey, I'm noticing that some of us are getting carried away out there. I like the intensity, but lets channel it into parts of the game that aren't likely to have some of us missing work". I'm sure a lot of you are counted on to put food on the table.


Good luck with your situation.

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03-16-2010, 01:37 AM
  #12
10 ft. pole
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All that stuff you mentioned is part of playing a skilled game of hockey, even the dirty goals and using your body for D.

Escalating the physicality for the purposes of intimidation and message-sending is not part of the game at this level. You can fight fire with fire if you want, but everybody is just gonna end up burnt out with the ********. Get everybody together in the locker room. It sounds like you're a guilty party as much as anybody, so you can use yourself as an example with out pointing fingers and say "hey, I'm noticing that some of us are getting carried away out there. I like the intensity, but lets channel it into parts of the game that aren't likely to have some of us missing work". I'm sure a lot of you are counted on to put food on the table.


Good luck with your situation.
I don't play dirty so your assumption would be incorrect. Making a clean hit to counteract a dirty play is fair game in all of the leagues I have played in. My question is where is it's place in pickup. Hockey is hockey and it seems there are some of the same problems at all levels. Does a stick in your face mean less if you are a beer leaguer or an NHLer? Why would a clean hit be uncalled for in the same manner as a dirty hit. We are not talking about intent to injure. We are talking about teaching guys boundries in hockey.

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03-16-2010, 01:43 AM
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Next time he does something dirty on you, just ask him to go. Unless this guy is a grade-A *******, one round should settle everything.

Don't escalate the hitting until someone breaks their neck, that's the one big no-no. Just play your game, and if he gets out of control ask him calmly if he'd like to settle this little mean-streak he has towards you.

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03-16-2010, 02:13 AM
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10 ft. pole
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Next time he does something dirty on you, just ask him to go. Unless this guy is a grade-A *******, one round should settle everything.

Don't escalate the hitting until someone breaks their neck, that's the one big no-no. Just play your game, and if he gets out of control ask him calmly if he'd like to settle this little mean-streak he has towards you.
Don't want to hurt the guy just want him to play a clean game.

Besides he wears a bird cage and I'm not really into fighting on the ice unless someone else starts it. Just not my personality type while playing hockey. I think it is frowned upon in our rink.

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03-16-2010, 02:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 ft. pole View Post
I don't play dirty so your assumption would be incorrect. Making a clean hit to counteract a dirty play is fair game in all of the leagues I have played in. My question is where is it's place in pickup. Hockey is hockey and it seems there are some of the same problems at all levels. Does a stick in your face mean less if you are a beer leaguer or an NHLer? Why would a clean hit be uncalled for in the same manner as a dirty hit. We are not talking about intent to injure. We are talking about teaching guys boundaries in hockey.
I don't think it has a place in pick up. And I wasn't saying you were guilty of dirty play. I was saying you were someone who elevated the physicality of the game to a point where guys can get hurt. I don't think that's acceptable at pick-up hockey, but you're not the only one doing it and I understand how it gets there.

It basically sounds to me like you need to get the guys to understand that at pick-up hockey the priorities are a bit different since it is essentially practice in the form of a game. For most guys I think the priorities are something along the lines of:

1: Respect each other's safety
2a: Have fun
2b: Work on your game
.
.
.
.
3: Win the scrimmage

If play gets spirited and everybody is hustling and back checking and flying all over......that's great! But people shouldn't lose perspective.

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03-16-2010, 03:04 AM
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Seriously, this stuff is ridiculous for men's league, but in pickup?

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03-16-2010, 04:40 AM
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The problem with clean hits is that they hurt. Anyone you hit at pick up, especially a jackass you described will try to "get back" at you. But hitting someone cleanly is not easy, so if the guy's not solid on hits skates he'll just chop at your face or your ankle...

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03-16-2010, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by 10 ft. pole View Post
I don't play dirty so your assumption would be incorrect. Making a clean hit to counteract a dirty play is fair game in all of the leagues I have played in. My question is where is it's place in pickup. Hockey is hockey and it seems there are some of the same problems at all levels. Does a stick in your face mean less if you are a beer leaguer or an NHLer? Why would a clean hit be uncalled for in the same manner as a dirty hit. We are not talking about intent to injure. We are talking about teaching guys boundries in hockey.
I think it probably should. Same with hacking and tripping. Guys just don't know what they're doing. I understand from time to time taking a slash is going to piss you off, but if that's the game you're playing then you gotta suck it up. You can't play contact with bad players and expect not to take some stickwork.

Personally I think it's not a good idea to be out there running each other over, especially if you're playing with low-skill guys. Someone is going to do something stupid.

A ref would help, maybe some insurance too.

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03-16-2010, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by 10 ft. pole View Post
Don't want to hurt the guy just want him to play a clean game.

Besides he wears a bird cage and I'm not really into fighting on the ice unless someone else starts it. Just not my personality type while playing hockey. I think it is frowned upon in our rink.
Have you asked him to stop playing like a turd?

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03-16-2010, 09:24 AM
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and if none of the nice guy tactics work crack him right back with your stick "see I can do it too" then ask him if he would rather just play some fun puck since we all have to go to our real jobs tomorrow?

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03-16-2010, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 ft. pole View Post
I don't play dirty so your assumption would be incorrect. Making a clean hit to counteract a dirty play is fair game in all of the leagues I have played in. My question is where is it's place in pickup. Hockey is hockey and it seems there are some of the same problems at all levels. Does a stick in your face mean less if you are a beer leaguer or an NHLer? Why would a clean hit be uncalled for in the same manner as a dirty hit. We are not talking about intent to injure. We are talking about teaching guys boundries in hockey.

Teaching someone the boundaries of the game is not done through physical violence. I agree that it is especially annoying when you play with inexperienced players who hack and slash. There are way better ways to address the problem than to smash a guy back. I'm not too sure what leagues you've played in, but "making a clean hit to counteract a dirty play" has never been fair game in any league i've played in from the time I finished Junior B.

A hit that seems fair to you really isn't fair at all to the recipient if he has no idea that it's coming. If it's established in your weekly game that contact is legal, by all means. But to hit a guy in a manner that would be clean by full contact hockey standards, but which the recipient can't brace himself and prepare for, is totally improper.

This isn`t the show; it ain`t about retribution or sending messages or policing by being a tough guy. This is a problem I see time and time again in recreational mens leagues, and it takes all the fun out of playing. Too many guys want to mimic the brand of hockey they see on tv every night, whether it be by dangling like Ovechkin, yapping likes Avery, or running a guy like Cooke.

My advice I mentioned earlier stands. Deal with it verbally in the locker room before the game, or find another place to play that suits your interests better. That being said, the stick work of which you complain happens EVERYWHERE. Sad but true.

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03-16-2010, 09:08 PM
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You gotta bring it up, either in the room or on the bench. You don't want it to get to a point where someone gets hurt whether it be the result of a stick or hit.

Last year I watched this kid put a really good hit on a buddy of mine playing pick up. He was on my team so I said something to him as soon as we were both on the bench. He understood where I was coming from and apologized to my buddy later in the room.

Good luck man. Taking the high road is always the way to go.

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03-16-2010, 11:37 PM
  #23
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I would talk to the guy after a questionable hit. Say something like "Hey I don't mind a little physicalness here and there but you need to tone it down". If he says something go to one of his teammates and tell them to ask to tone it down(If he sees his teammates asking him to tone it down, it might look better than from someone on another team.) If he continues to do it then you might need to talk to the guy that rents the rink and tell him whats up and ask him not to bring him.


If none of that is working, look for other times to rent the rink and create your own pickup game there.

In my case(I rent the rink) when we have games going on I know who I can go after a little more, and certain guys know when they can take a shot at me. However, if two guys that have never played against each other start running each other, I just go to each guy regardless who's on my team and tell them to just tone down the hitting, we're here to get better not kill each other. Usually if you play against the same guys, the ones who talk to you as a man are usually ones that are respected and listened to.

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Old
03-18-2010, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwise514 View Post
This isn`t the show; it ain`t about retribution or sending messages or policing by being a tough guy. This is a problem I see time and time again in recreational mens leagues, and it takes all the fun out of playing. Too many guys want to mimic the brand of hockey they see on tv every night, whether it be by dangling like Ovechkin, yapping likes Avery, or running a guy like Cooke.
I dunno, I think trash talking and some amount of chippiness is part of the game at any level, just not in pickup. As long as nobody takes it overboard or takes it too personally, it makes for a more fun and engaging game. Usually the guys I play against understand that. After my games it's usually handshakes, smiles and pats on the back, except for a select few nerds that think they're playing for the Cup. Everyone else knows that it's part of the game, you leave it all on the ice, and when the game's over the game's over.

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Old
03-19-2010, 01:22 AM
  #25
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stuff like this flies in the NHL because it is what they get paid for. just like im sure you understand the demands that go along with your job, they understand what comes with theirs. pickup hockey is really just to have fun. if you are not having fun, find new people to play with. IMO if things are getting this out of control i dk how easy it will be to talk these goons down.

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