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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

To those who are against NHL players at the Olympics because they are professionals

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Old
03-05-2010, 07:31 AM
  #26
eliostar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rojac View Post
Drop both sports -- team sports often bog down the Olympics anyway.
Amen , could not agree more. Anything over five minutes loses my interest.
Well , at the Olympics anyway.
If hockey wants a big international stage, the need to have a world cup format like soccer.

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Old
03-05-2010, 07:34 AM
  #27
Psycho Papa Joe
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Personally, if the NHL opts out, I'd rather they turn the Olympics into an under 21 tournament and skip the WJC in Olympic years. Better than a band aid Olympic tournament of mediocre pros, KHLers and unsigned free agents.

I like the idea of a World Cup every 4 years, that suits every league's schedule, with it alternating between NA and Europe. It would allow for a proper training camp unlike the current Olympic format.

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03-05-2010, 08:06 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GetzlafGoal View Post
The only true amatures you'll see are the ones from the World jr's.
And even then, depending on who you talk to, not all of those players are amateur athletes. The NCAA considers the CHL to be professional, iirc.

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Old
03-05-2010, 08:55 AM
  #29
JVR
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I guess a lot of the European talents at the World Juniors are being paid as well.
I mean Germany's top talents Rieder and Kühnhackl are playing in our 2nd highest
league, of course they get a salary.
There also is no high school or college/university sports here.

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Old
03-05-2010, 10:27 AM
  #30
RusskiyHockey
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The Olympics are all about the best athletes in the world of each sport. Who cares where they make their money? All football leagues in the world take plenty of breaks throughout the season for FIFA qualifiers, Champion's League, UEFA Cup, etc. These diversions involve plenty of transcontinental flying, last-minute training, roster substitutions, and who complains that "it's distracting"? I don't see how it should be any different in hockey. There's more to the sport than just club play.

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03-05-2010, 12:46 PM
  #31
garbageteam
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Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
The whole amateur-only thing might be the single stupidest suggestion I've ever heard that's actually widely contested.
This.

Absolutely archaic and stupid. Do these people also think the earth is flat? They haven't been for amateurs in decades. Millions of dollars were spent to "Own the Podium", virtually every country funds its athletes. These people remind me of the Olympic protesters - no matter how much they cry and complain, it's never going to happen as it's just damn plain counter-intuitive.

Commercial interest in the Olympics would rapidly drop off if all pros were banned, which is very bad for the IOC. These arguments are probably based out of self interest anyway - half of these people probably -think- they might have a hope in hell to make it to an Olympic event and be on TV, but truth probably is if they weren't able to go into the system properly, show off their talents and earn their funding, they wouldn't be able to make it if all funding was cut in any case.

By the way, even football (soccer) is in the summer olympics, albeit with a weakened team (only 3 players above 23 allowed)... team sports are staying in which is fine as it provides diversity (and money) for the IOC.

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03-05-2010, 01:18 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
The whole amateur-only thing might be the single stupidest suggestion I've ever heard that's actually widely contested.
It is an ideal, but it is still uphold in boxing, among others. In which case, performing well in the Olympics usually opens the door for a good Professional contract / endorsement.

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03-05-2010, 01:41 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Injektilo View Post
People who argue for amateurs only really have no idea what the difference between amateur and professional is. I really wish I could meet one in person so I could ask them exactly who would be eligible to play.
I am indifferent as to whether the Olympics should be with professionals or amateurs alone. But here are definitions of

AMATEURS:
One who engages in a pursuit, study, science, or sport as a pastime rather than as a profession (Merriam-Webster)

A person attached to a particular pursuit, study, or science, without pay and often without formal training (Wikipedia)

PROFESSIONALS:
Participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateur / engaged in by persons receiving financial return (Merriam-Webster)

Professional sports, as opposed to amateur sports, are sports in which athletes receive payment for their performance / A person who earns his living from a specified activity (Wikipedia / Wiktionary)

* * *

I would define an amateur as someone who does not receive compensation, in any form, to train for, participate in, or win a competition.

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Old
03-05-2010, 01:59 PM
  #34
Hfboards2010
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How to bend the rules

Dr. Randy Gregg, the amateur and the professional

1979-1980 Refused contract offer from NYR
1979-1980 Salt Lake City Olympics - Team Canada
1982-1987 Edmonton Oilers (Won 4 cups, retired at the end of 1987 season)
1987-1988 Residency program in orthopedic surgery
1987-1988 Calgary Olympics - Team Canada
1987-1991 Edmonton Oilers (Won 1 cup)
1991-1992 Vancouver Canucks
1992(?)-X Dr. Randy Gregg


Last edited by Hfboards2010: 03-05-2010 at 03:23 PM.
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Old
03-06-2010, 12:24 AM
  #35
Stripes
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Originally Posted by eliostar View Post
Amen , could not agree more. Anything over five minutes loses my interest.
Well , at the Olympics anyway.
If hockey wants a big international stage, the need to have a world cup format like soccer.
That's ridiculous. I don't understand how any hockey fan can say that the IIHF should have a 2-year-long tournament that involves qualifying and a final event to determine a World Champion. Hockey can't have a World Cup like FIFA holds for football nations. There aren't enough countries with even half decent hockey programs to accomplish anything of the sort. The 2010 FIFA World Cup started qualifying with 204 teams in competition. Good luck with getting 204 countries to put hockey teams together!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hfboards2010 View Post
Dr. Randy Gregg, the amateur and the professional

1979-1980 Refused contract offer from NYR
1979-1980 Salt Lake City Olympics - Team Canada
1982-1987 Edmonton Oilers (Won 4 cups, retired at the end of 1987 season)
1987-1988 Residency program in orthopedic surgery
1987-1988 Calgary Olympics - Team Canada
1987-1991 Edmonton Oilers (Won 1 cup)
1991-1992 Vancouver Canucks
1992(?)-X Dr. Randy Gregg
Where was 1980 again?


Last edited by Stripes: 03-06-2010 at 04:40 AM.
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Old
03-06-2010, 12:41 AM
  #36
Grabovski
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My brother is a Boxer (amateur) and went to the Olympics.

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Old
03-06-2010, 02:50 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
Yes

However, with the Summer Olympics being played in the offseason, it's not as annoying as the Winter Olympics
Screw the NHL owner's big pocket. Olympic hockey with the best players in the world is freaking amazing and I want to see that quality every four years. Why do the European football club owners don't mind releasing their players to various national teams several times a year but it's so hard in North America? North Americans have no pride and only care about $$$.

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Old
03-06-2010, 09:17 PM
  #38
Stripes
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Originally Posted by Canuck21t View Post
Screw the NHL owner's big pocket. Olympic hockey with the best players in the world is freaking amazing and I want to see that quality every four years. Why do the European football club owners don't mind releasing their players to various national teams several times a year but it's so hard in North America? North Americans have no pride and only care about $$$.
Don't be stupid. Football and hockey are two different sports. International football is built around the foundation of long qualifying campaigns that lead to a final tournament every 2 years, alternating between continental and world championships. The reason they have the long qualifying campaigns is because there is a national football team for almost every country on the planet.

International hockey contests a World Championship every year. There is a promotion/relegation system where how you finish one year determines what level you play at the next year. The IIHF currently ranks 48 countries while FIFA ranks 207 countries. The IIHF cannot have the same kind of international competition system that FIFA has.

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Old
03-07-2010, 03:38 PM
  #39
Canuck21t
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Originally Posted by Stripes View Post
Don't be stupid. Football and hockey are two different sports. International football is built around the foundation of long qualifying campaigns that lead to a final tournament every 2 years, alternating between continental and world championships. The reason they have the long qualifying campaigns is because there is a national football team for almost every country on the planet.

International hockey contests a World Championship every year. There is a promotion/relegation system where how you finish one year determines what level you play at the next year. The IIHF currently ranks 48 countries while FIFA ranks 207 countries. The IIHF cannot have the same kind of international competition system that FIFA has.
I'm not asking the IIHF to have the same kind of international competition system that FIFA has. All I'm asking is that the NHL releases its players once every four year, that's a lot less than what the football clubs are required to do.

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Old
03-07-2010, 06:17 PM
  #40
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In greek mythology Olympians are the race of gods that rule from Mount Olympus. That means Zeus, Hera, Apollo, et al. For a sporting event named after the god shouldn't you include the most godlike athletes you can find? I don't have much interest is seeing a bunch of scrubs. I wouldn't watch a minute of these Olympics if NHL players weren't allowed to play.

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Old
03-07-2010, 11:55 PM
  #41
DoyleG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck21t View Post
Screw the NHL owner's big pocket. Olympic hockey with the best players in the world is freaking amazing and I want to see that quality every four years. Why do the European football club owners don't mind releasing their players to various national teams several times a year but it's so hard in North America? North Americans have no pride and only care about $$$.
Don't mind?

You've been living out of touch when it comes to the concept of club v. country battle in soccer.

Clubs have to pay the players salaries even if the player is called up for national team duty. May not seem a problem to you, but ask the owner who has to give up his best African players for the Cup of Nations. The player is away for weeks from his club for the national team, in which the club still pays his salary.

Then, there is the case of players getting injured while they're on duty.....

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Old
03-07-2010, 11:56 PM
  #42
DoyleG
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Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
No at all, the English professional football league started in 1888.
Yet professionalism existed before the league founding. It's well known to anyone that has a knowledge of the history of soccer.

Try Again.

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Old
03-08-2010, 12:53 AM
  #43
jekoh
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Originally Posted by GavinD80 View Post
Yet professionalism existed before the league founding. It's well known to anyone that has a knowledge of the history of soccer.
Which only further makes my point, genius.

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Old
03-08-2010, 01:36 AM
  #44
DoyleG
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Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
Which only further makes my point, genius.


No it doesn't since your history only started with the league. Even then, you still don't have a clue about the issue of professionalism.

Try Again.

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Old
03-10-2010, 04:29 PM
  #45
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Whoever says that is dumbest piece of **** on earth

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Old
03-16-2010, 05:49 PM
  #46
tomf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck21t View Post
Screw the NHL owner's big pocket. Olympic hockey with the best players in the world is freaking amazing and I want to see that quality every four years. Why do the European football club owners don't mind releasing their players to various national teams several times a year but it's so hard in North America? North Americans have no pride and only care about $$$.
They do mind, but it's all about power distribution. FIFA is much much stonger organization than IIHF and has all club firmly in their grip, at least so far.

But I think there was some noise that some of those big rich clubs would like to withdraw from FIFA and form their own league.

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Old
03-16-2010, 05:52 PM
  #47
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But I agree that the idea of Olympics be for amateurs only is stupid. Noone should be disqualified from going to Olympics just because he's doing a sport for a living. Just my opinion.

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