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VERSUS back on DTV / FCC closes CSN Loophole

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Old
03-17-2010, 01:14 PM
  #51
Bernie Parent 1974
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Originally Posted by i am dave View Post
My Dearest Bernard,


i am dave
i'll take that as "i cannot refute that comcast treats the 2 groups of Comcast customers unequally"

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Old
03-17-2010, 01:17 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
i'll take that as "i cannot refute that comcast treats the 2 groups of Comcast customers unequally"
You will do no such thing. That is like me saying

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
apple
I'll take that as "orange".

If you cannot accept that CSN-DC and CSN-P are two different channels and if you cannot accept that nobody outside the Philadelphia TV market - regardless of cable television service can receive CSN-P then you cannot accept reality.

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Old
03-17-2010, 01:31 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by i am dave View Post
You will do no such thing. That is like me saying



I'll take that as "orange".

If you cannot accept that CSN-DC and CSN-P are two different channels and if you cannot accept that nobody outside the Philadelphia TV market - regardless of cable television service can receive CSN-P then you cannot accept reality.

and if you cannot accept that those channels are owned and operated by the same company -- who has decided that the residents [who are their customers] of one of those cities [when they relocate] can still have access, while the residents [who are their customers] of the other city [when they relocate] cannot still have access

=

unequal treatment by that company of the 2 groups of their own customers,

then you cannot accept reality.


Last edited by Bernie Parent 1974: 03-17-2010 at 01:45 PM.
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Old
03-17-2010, 02:12 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
and if you cannot accept that those channels are owned and operated by the same company -- who has decided that the residents [who are their customers] of one of those cities [when they relocate] can still have access, while the residents [who are their customers] of the other city [when they relocate] cannot still have access

=

unequal treatment by that company of the 2 groups of their own customers,

then you cannot accept reality.
1. If you had bothered to read my post instead of clipping it down to two sentence fragments, you'll see that I said they were owned by the same company. That does not make them the same channel.

2. Comcast has decided - as was previously their right - that only terrestrial-based systems within the CSN-P region can receive CSN-P. They haven't picked and chosen random groups of people to receive CSN-P.

3. As stated numerous times, every customer of DTV has access to the same channels. As stated numerous times, every customer of DTV can get CSN-DC. As stated numerous times, no customer of DTV can get CSN-P. That is the metric of fairness. The metric of fairness is not based on which region the customer wants to watch. If - and only if - some-but-not-all DTV customers could get CSN-P and others not - then there would be a fairness concern.

4. Why are you not complaining about the Comcast customers who can't get CSN-P on Comcast? Why are you insisting on making it about satellite? Why is the cart going before the horse?

5. Instead of looking at it as "punishment" for fans of CSN-P, why is it not a privilege for fans of CSN-DC? Since when did viewing CSN-P become a constitutional right?

6. An Madison, WI resident who moves to Tampa, FL cannot get their Madison, WI stations on Tampa's Bright House cable. By watching the Tampa NBC affiliate and its advertisements, they in effect are NBC customers, but are prevented from watching their Madison affiliate. NBC should provide Bright House with all their affiliates. Why no outrage there?

Do not edit one single character from this response.

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Old
03-17-2010, 03:11 PM
  #55
Bernie Parent 1974
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Originally Posted by i am dave View Post
That does not make them the same channel.
i never said they are the same channel.

obviously they are not.


i clearly said: those channels are owned and operated by the same company

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Old
03-17-2010, 03:13 PM
  #56
Bernie Parent 1974
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no matter how you try to
'equate'
'slice and dice'
'defend'
'explain away'

there is nothing you can say to refute this:

that those channels are owned and operated by the same company -- who has decided that the residents [who are their customers] of one of those cities [when they relocate] can still have access, while the residents [who are their customers] of the other city [when they relocate] cannot still have access

=

unequal treatment by that company of the 2 groups of their own customers

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Old
03-17-2010, 03:21 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
Jester, would you like me to start making similar comments?

or will you stop before it goes any further?

your choice.
Feel free, it's a friggin sarcastic joke. Too close to home?

You didn't justify your decision as a Comcast executive to the shareholders, btw. Please do so. Or admit that your argument is idiotic.

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03-17-2010, 03:25 PM
  #58
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only one Comcast-affiliated network across its 39-state footprint that the company has not made available to all competitors--Comcast SportsNet Philadelphia.

where is Comcast located?
what city gives them major incentives / tax break=ks to locate there?
in which city do they own / partially own 2 teams?

what city's comcast customers who relocate don't get to still watch the home town CSN even though it's not available on comcast cable in their new town?

you got it:


Philadelphia.

that's COMCASTIC !!!


what a joke.

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Old
03-17-2010, 03:26 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Feel free, it's a friggin sarcastic joke. Too close to home?
does your mom service the Comcast CEO or something?

too close to home?

[sarcastic joke, BTW]

how about you knock it off.

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Old
03-17-2010, 03:30 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
does your mom service the Comcast CEO or something?

too close to home?

[sarcastic joke, BTW]

how about you knock it off.
Don't get your panties in a twist.

Seriously, how do you, as a Comcast executive, justify to invested shareholders the fact that you lost 450,000 customers knowingly because you felt like being a nice to your competitors.

Honestly, your argument is on par with Holmgren attempting to justify calling up Randy Jones and nixing 1.3M in cap space.

So, I guess, "What can you do?" is your reasoning in castigating Comcast.

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Old
03-17-2010, 03:58 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i am dave View Post
Do not edit one single character from this response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by i am dave
That does not make them the same channel.
i never said they are the same channel.

obviously they are not.


i clearly said: those channels are owned and operated by the same company
Well clearly you can read.

You are trying to to say "Being able to have CSN-DC on DTV while not having CSN-P on DTV is unfair." It's not at all unfair unless that privilege of having CSN-P on DTV extended to some DTV customers but not all, which is not at all even remotely the case.

The FACT that ZERO DTV customers can get CSN-P and ALL DTV customers have the option of getting CSN-DC IS BY DEFINITION FAIR.

Since you obviously chose not to read my previous post in its entirety and blatantly disrespect my wishes, I will copy and paste the remainder, to which you have no response:

Quote:
Originally Posted by i am dave
2. Comcast has decided - as was previously their right - that only terrestrial-based systems within the CSN-P region can receive CSN-P. They haven't picked and chosen random groups of people to receive CSN-P.

3. As stated numerous times, every customer of DTV has access to the same channels. As stated numerous times, every customer of DTV can get CSN-DC. As stated numerous times, no customer of DTV can get CSN-P. That is the metric of fairness. The metric of fairness is not based on which region the customer wants to watch. If - and only if - some-but-not-all DTV customers could get CSN-P and others not - then there would be a fairness concern.

4. Why are you not complaining about the Comcast customers who can't get CSN-P on Comcast? Why are you insisting on making it about satellite? Why is the cart going before the horse?

5. Instead of looking at it as "punishment" for fans of CSN-P, why is it not a privilege for fans of CSN-DC? Since when did viewing CSN-P become a constitutional right?

6. An Madison, WI resident who moves to Tampa, FL cannot get their Madison, WI stations on Tampa's Bright House cable. By watching the Tampa NBC affiliate and its advertisements, they in effect are NBC customers, but are prevented from watching their Madison affiliate. NBC should provide Bright House with all their affiliates. Why no outrage there?

Do not edit one single character from this response.
Ergo, I claim victory.

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Old
03-17-2010, 05:43 PM
  #62
Bernie Parent 1974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post

As said, your argument is essentially that Comcast should willfully, and with full knowledge ......
twist it any way you want, my point remains the same:

it is Comcast's right to treat their transplanted Philly customers in a manner that is unequal to Comcast's transplanted customers coming from every other city in the country.

it is my right to hold the opinion that a company like that should treat all of their customers equally.

and to call them out when they don't.

you want to say it's 'good business', that is your right.

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Old
03-17-2010, 05:46 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by i am dave View Post

The FACT that ZERO DTV customers ....

being a customer of a satellite company has nothing to do with how comcast treats it's own customers unequally

you are talking about how Comcast treats satellite customers, and I'm talking about how comcast treats it's OWN Customers, which is the relevant point. Comcast is the company the FCC is going after for it's reprehensible behavior, not some satellite company.


i'm not talking about a satellite company's customers, i'm talking about transplanted Comcast customers [from philly] who do not get treated the same as transplanted Comcast customers [from DC]:
one group still gets access to their CSN, one does not = unequal treatment.

[and the reason the FCC is going after them]

you lose.


Last edited by Bernie Parent 1974: 03-17-2010 at 05:53 PM.
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Old
03-17-2010, 06:23 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
being a customer of a satellite company has nothing to do with how comcast treats it's own customers unequally

you are talking about how Comcast treats satellite customers, and I'm talking about how comcast treats it's OWN Customers, which is the relevant point. Comcast is the company the FCC is going after for it's reprehensible behavior, not some satellite company.


i'm not talking about a satellite company's customers, i'm talking about transplanted Comcast customers [from philly] who do not get treated the same as transplanted Comcast customers [from DC]:
one group still gets access to their CSN, one does not = unequal treatment.

[and the reason the FCC is going after them]

you lose.
You most certainly are.

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Old
03-17-2010, 06:35 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
twist it any way you want, my point remains the same:

it is Comcast's right to treat their transplanted Philly customers in a manner that is unequal to Comcast's transplanted customers coming from every other city in the country.
it is my right to hold the opinion that a company like that should treat all of their customers equally.

and to call them out when they don't.

you want to say it's 'good business', that is your right.
comcast doesnt treat any transplanted cusomers fairly, because in terms of braodcasting rights and markets, its not really up to them. if you are a cable customer and move from michigan to san jose you are only going to get the comcast sportsnet bay, not csn north. but thats not really comcasts decision. its the decision of the fcc and teh local franchise agreement to determine what sportsteam has braodcast rights in that area and will decide how tehy want to be broadcasted. example being how the oakland A's left CSNBAY and went onto CSN california. making alot of people lose out

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03-17-2010, 06:42 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
being a customer of a satellite company has nothing to do with how comcast treats it's own customers unequally

you are talking about how Comcast treats satellite customers, and I'm talking about how comcast treats it's OWN Customers, which is the relevant point. Comcast is the company the FCC is going after for it's reprehensible behavior, not some satellite company.


i'm not talking about a satellite company's customers, i'm talking about transplanted Comcast customers [from philly] who do not get treated the same as transplanted Comcast customers [from DC]:
one group still gets access to their CSN, one does not = unequal treatment.

[and the reason the FCC is going after them]

you lose.
Just because you say "you lose" doesn't make it so.

You're the one who keeps pushing the "Comcast customers with satellite" agenda. Since absolutely no single person on the planet can get Comcast cable via satellite (as a Comcast Satellite service does not yet exist to my knowledge), then that makes DTV completely relevant.

How many Comcast customers outside the Philadelphia market can get CSN-P on Comcast cable? Based on your own admission in the previous thread - zero.

How many Comcast customers outside the Washington DC market can get CSN-DC on Comcast cable? Based on your own admission in the previous thread - zero.

How many Comcast customers outside the Bay Area market can get CSN-Bay on Comcast cable? Based on your own admission in the previous thread - zero.

Et cetera.

So you - Bernie Parent 1974 - bring in "Comcast customers who have satellite service" as being relevant to the discussion. The number of people who pay for Comcast cable AND a satellite cable service is infinitesimally small, first of all. Nobody (other than yourself) who has read either of the two threads about this can understand how or why it's even relevant. Since Comcast customers in Oklahoma, etc., who are CSN-P fans cannot get CSN-P on Comcast - how are those Comcast customers who have satellite service and who are CSN-P fans being treated unfairly in comparison to those Comcast customers outside the Philadelphia market who do not have satellite service?

You continue to measure fairness by saying, "Well a transplanted DC guy gets to see his network while a transplanted Philly guy doesn't," but that's not how the world works. That's not how fairness is measured. Do both transplants have access to the same networks? Yes. That is the sole metric of how fairness is measured.

Just because a Comcast customer in the Pacific Northwest who (foolishly) chooses to pay for satellite service in addition to his cable service, and in doing so now has access to certain CSN networks, does not grant this customer any rights over any other Comcast customer outside the Philadelphia market. It does grant him certain privileges, but those same privileges are ascertainable without being a Comcast customer. So you are completely fabricating the situation now by saying of this guy "Well a Comcast customer in Philadelphia can get CSN-P, while this Comcast customer in Seattle can't get CSN-P through his satellite service." Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Comcast's business decisions in this matter are not at all indicative of reprehensible behavior. Maintaining one's legal rights is the furthest thing from "reprehensible behavior." Your only "proof" of this fabricated vendetta against transplanted Philadelphians is to bemoan Comcast for acting within their rights as a business.

And furthermore, you continue to be disrespectful to me, so I will post this again. Perhaps you will this time read the entire thing as you clearly have not done, including the final sentence. I am now, for the third time this afternoon asking you not to edit my posts down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by i am dave
2. Comcast has decided - as was previously their right - that only terrestrial-based systems within the CSN-P region can receive CSN-P. They haven't picked and chosen random groups of people to receive CSN-P.

3. As stated numerous times, every customer of DTV has access to the same channels. As stated numerous times, every customer of DTV can get CSN-DC. As stated numerous times, no customer of DTV can get CSN-P. That is the metric of fairness. The metric of fairness is not based on which region the customer wants to watch. If - and only if - some-but-not-all DTV customers could get CSN-P and others not - then there would be a fairness concern.

4. Why are you not complaining about the Comcast customers who can't get CSN-P on Comcast? Why are you insisting on making it about satellite? Why is the cart going before the horse?

5. Instead of looking at it as "punishment" for fans of CSN-P, why is it not a privilege for fans of CSN-DC? Since when did viewing CSN-P become a constitutional right?

6. An Madison, WI resident who moves to Tampa, FL cannot get their Madison, WI stations on Tampa's Bright House cable. By watching the Tampa NBC affiliate and its advertisements, they in effect are NBC customers, but are prevented from watching their Madison affiliate. NBC should provide Bright House with all their affiliates. Why no outrage there?

Do not edit one single character from this response.

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Old
03-17-2010, 07:28 PM
  #67
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My Dearest Bernard,

Yay though I long to continue this discourse, it has been apparent for many a fortnight that ye continue to denyth thine own argument's shortcomings. Whilst it be convenient for a Missouri knave to follow the Capitals of the District of Columbia on one channel, but not the Flyers of Philadelphia, through the celestial satellite services and into their television machines, the gods have decided in their infinite wisdom that CSN-DC and CSN-P are in fact two different, though similarly named channels.

Mine own eyes have witnesseth through the miracles of the interwebs your repeated ignorance of the fact that nary a soul - regardless of race, color, creed, or cable service - outside the City of Brotherly Love television dome can receive the glory of CSN-P.

And further thou continue to boast of many souls who inexplicably chooseth to purchase multiple cable services without presence of fact, reference, or reason.

Oh my sweet Bernard! Cast aside your doubts and prejudices! No longer shall ye be frought with thine own illegal loopholes and fraud if thou wouldst but embrace standard, reasonable business practices! No longer dost thou need to feel betrayed by Glorious Comcast if thou wouldst simply admit in your heart what I have stated - what be fact - that nary a soul - regardless of race, color, creed, or cable service - outside the City of Brotherly Love television dome can receive the glory of CSN-P.

I pray, Bernforth, thou will see the light. My heart yearns...

My deepest love,

i am dave

I enjoyed this. (Golf clap.)

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03-17-2010, 07:56 PM
  #68
Bernie Parent 1974
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Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
You most certainly are.
nope:


Comcast customer moves from Philly to a new city:

has comcast cable, internet , phone
has watched CSN from his home town for years
cannot get CSN from his home town on Comcast Cable in the new city.

he is not a customer of any other company besides comcast.

if he was originally from another city, he'd have other options = unequal treatment.


Last edited by Bernie Parent 1974: 03-17-2010 at 08:03 PM.
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03-17-2010, 07:59 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by i am dave View Post
Just because you say "you lose" doesn't make it so.

You're the one who keeps pushing the "Comcast customers with satellite" agenda.
the issue is not [and never was] getting 'comcast cable on satellite' - what are YOU smoking?

the issue has always been:


a Comcast customer moves from Philly to a new city:

has comcast cable, internet , phone
has watched CSN from his home town for years
cannot get CSN from his home town on Comcast Cable in his new city

he is not a customer of any other company besides comcast.

if he was originally from another city, he'd have other options = unequal treatment.

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03-17-2010, 08:01 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by PhillyFan4Ever View Post
comcast doesnt treat any transplanted cusomers fairly, because in terms of braodcasting rights and markets, its not really up to them. if you are a cable customer and move from michigan to san jose you are only going to get the comcast sportsnet bay, not csn north.
not correct:

you can get CSN North if you decide to via another provider. Comcast permits this.

Philly residents in the same situation are denied similar access via another provider to CSN Pjilly.

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03-17-2010, 08:15 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
nope:


Comcast customer moves from Philly to a new city:

has comcast cable, internet , phone
has watched CSN from his home town for years
cannot get CSN from his home town on Comcast Cable in the new city.

he is not a customer of any other company besides comcast.

if he was originally from another city, he'd have other options = unequal treatment.
I can't imagine that that's possibly true. You're telling me that I can get any of Comcast's RSNs (with the one exception) in any location in the US via any cable provider? And, pray tell, what loophole is Comcast using to get out of broadcasting CSN-P on this one?

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03-17-2010, 08:22 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
not correct:

you can get CSN North if you decide to via another provider. Comcast permits this.

Philly residents in the same situation are denied similar access via another provider to CSN Pjilly.
no you cannot i work for charter communications the cable comany and the franchise agrrements dictate that the dominant market has broadcasting rights.if that wasnt case then i should ba able to get csnp but i do not because the market is dominated by the thrashers. 200 more miles north canes would have braodcasting rights.those teams do not allow out of market channels ( ie caps, pens, sharks) that is why the only solution to out of market games is indemands networks solution of center ice.

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03-17-2010, 08:25 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by PhillyFan4Ever View Post
no you cannot i work for charter communications the cable comany and the franchise agrrements dictate that the dominant market has broadcasting rights.if that wasnt case then i should ba able to get csnp but i do not because the market is dominated by the thrashers. 200 more miles north canes would have braodcasting rights.those teams do not allow out of market channels ( ie caps, pens, sharks) that is why the only solution to out of market games is indemands networks solution of center ice.
Since you're in the industry, perhaps you'd know. Can DTV customers get all the other CSN channels down there? I was under the impression we were just talking about this for the sake of Center Ice getting the feeds, but Bernie is making me wonder whether people can get, for example, CSN-Chicago 24/7 if they want even if they don't live in Chicago. Your post makes me think not, but I wanted to ask directly.

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03-17-2010, 08:33 PM
  #74
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no you cannot. its like local channels with DTV... if i wanted philly local news channels i cant get it with DTV or cable. the trick to getting local channels would be if you registered your satellite in that specific area. i had a friend who did that to get WPVI channel 6 in philadelphia. it all has to do with the market and who had the rights. here is a perfect example....

people who live in cleveland tennessee you would think should be able to see the titans. but they are forced to see the falcons play. why? geographically atlanta is the dominant market. even tho they are both on fox on sunday. it is that affiliate in that market that wins out.

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03-17-2010, 08:41 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
the issue is not [and never was] getting 'comcast cable on satellite' - what are YOU smoking?
Do you seriously only see what you want to see? I didn't say anything of the sort. If you read past my first sentence, you would know that I was not suggesting anybody was getting "comcast cable on satellite." In fact, I said that was inherently impossible. Read the rest of the post and then maybe we can have an intelligent discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post

the issue has always been:


a Comcast customer moves from Philly to a new city:

has comcast cable, internet , phone
has watched CSN from his home town for years
cannot get CSN from his home town on Comcast Cable in his new city

he is not a customer of any other company besides comcast.

if he was originally from another city, he'd have other options = unequal treatment.
Actually, no, Bernie, the issue has not always been that. You're conveniently changing your story. There are about a hundred examples in the other thread where you keep on referencing Comcast customers who also have satellite:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974
Can Comcast customers in DC get CSN via satellite ? Yes.

Can Comcast customers in Philly get CSN via satellite ? No.
Be that as it may, my points in my previous post remain and are valid. Perhaps one day you'll actually read my entire post instead of stopping after a fraction of it.

And now since we have an expert chiming in, I'm going to suggest that he knows more about what the FCC allows as far as the broadcasting rights of RSNs go than you and I do combined.

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